Grub+Darwin-(?)-Bootloader: Replace with Chameleon or Boot Think?

[tommac_osx86]

I have a triple-boot-setup (reference my signature) and all distros are running smoothly until now; but I always have to confirm my selection twice for booting up OSX:

1. GRUB: I select my iPC entry

2. On the next (black) screen I can choose between OSX und WinXP (default; 5s countdown)

3. I again choose OSX and the system boots

 

What do I have to set up/install, so only one bootloader is in use?

 

I would prefer to install a bootloader like "chameleon" or "Think Boot". How to do? Which partitition table has to configured? At the moment I'm using MBR with three primary partititions.

[srs5694]

See my recent post on setting up GRUB2 as the system's only boot loader:

 

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=189079

 

AFAIK, none of the common OSx86 boot loaders (Chameleon, PC-EFI, Boot Think, etc.) can directly boot a Linux kernel, so if you want to use one of them as your primary boot loader, you'll still need to use GRUB, GRUB2, LILO, or perhaps something more exotic to load the Linux kernel. That said, you could set a very short timeout in GRUB (or whatever you use) so that it'd boot the default after showing the menu for just a second or two.

 

Using GRUB2 as the only boot loader is something that's pretty bleeding-edge and advanced, so don't try to do this until you've studied the procedure and understand at least the basics of GRUB2 configuration. You should have a tested method of booting at least one OS via an external boot loader (on a CD-ROM or USB flash drive, say) in case you run into problems.

[chokia]

Boot Think can boot Ubuntu directly.

 

Here is My sex6ook's sextuple boot menu, title of each OS also follows the partition name.

 

3 Os on the 1st scroll

 

another 3 on the next scroll including Ubuntu

 

Click and boot, without grub or windows boot menu. Clean Boot Menu and Clean boot

[srs5694]

Boot Think can boot Ubuntu directly.

...

Click and boot, without grub or windows boot menu. Clean Boot Menu and Clean boot

 

I strongly suspect that you're misinterpreting what's happening, for a couple of reasons:

 

• I've just spent a couple of hours experimenting with Boot Think. I couldn't get it to even recognize my Linux partition, much less boot anything from it. I suspect, but am not positive, that it was being thrown by the hybrid MBR configuration on my hard disk. (It picked up my Windows and OS X partitions just fine, though.)
  
• The Boot Think documentation says nothing about Linux, except that it can boot Ubuntu. To boot Linux directly, a boot loader must be able to load the Linux kernel, and possibly an initrd file, and pass options to the kernel. Both the kernel and the initrd file are files stored on a Linux filesystem (ext2, ext3, ReiserFS, etc.). Of course, the documentation for Boot Think is deficient generally (or at least, the English version is), and it could be that the documentation just omits the necessary information for how to specify these files and they options they should be passed.
  

 

Incidentally, your screen shots prove nothing. The Ubuntu entry could simply load GRUB, LILO, or some other boot loader as a secondary boot loader. That's easy for a boot loader to do, assuming all the boot loaders in the system work in the usual way.

 

I suggest you check your Linux boot loader configuration. This is probably in a file called /boot/grub/grub.conf or /boot/grub/menu.lst. Look for a timeout value, as in "timeout 15". If it says "timeout 0", the result will be that you'll see a very brief flash of text to the effect that GRUB is loading, then the default entry will boot. GRUB is still involved in the boot process in this case. Even if the timeout value is low but non-zero (say, 1 or 2 seconds), you might not recognize the GRUB menu as a boot loader menu; it'd come and go so quickly that you might think it's something else entirely.

 

If you still think that Boot Think is actually loading your Linux kernel directly, then I believe it's incumbent upon you to prove it. Give me explicit directions for how to configure it to do this, or point me to such directions. If this is how your system is set up, you probably had to configure it explicitly yourself; there are decisions to be made in such configurations that would be hard for a program to do, so you should remember at least having to enter options in a configuration file.

[chokia]

Oh i've forgotten to include the simple method of achieving that.

 

WUBI, install Ubuntu into an empty NTFS partition named Ubuntu from windows. And Thats it.

 

I already fed up installing Ubuntu the conventional way and what i get are:-

 

1. unreadable and inacessible linux partition in Windows (ext2, ext3, ext4) or osx (ext3 and ext4), no point of multiboot if you cant access linux partition from other OS.

2. yeah ext2 kext for OSX can read but linux partition will be named hd04 linux etc

3. of coz stupid naming "hdo4 linux" in Boot Think menu too.

4. create another useless partition called swap. (modern OS - W7 and SL dont need swap partition to be the best)

 

with Wubi i dont have all that, plus no grub menu and Ubuntu boot directly. And i dont see any drop of performance either. Ubuntu installed this way can still boot by boot think, even after you screwed up with the windows that you installed it from.

 

I m no programmer and yeah im a noob and i found out a solution for noob. And it works.

[tommac_osx86]

Is it possible to install Boot Think, Chameleon or GRUB2 for testing purposes to USB stick or USB-connected HDD?

 

What filyeystem do I have to chose for the stick or USB-plugged-HDD?

 

Which bootloader should I prefer in your opinion?

[srs5694]

Is it possible to install Boot Think, Chameleon or GRUB2 for testing purposes to USB stick or USB-connected HDD?

 

Yes. I did just that with Boot Think for the above-mentioned tests. When they didn't go as I'd hoped, I moved it onto the hard disk, with no better results. I'm not sure about Chameleon or GRUB2 on these scores. I'm sure either of them could be set up in this way, but you might have to jump through some extra hoops to do so. (I've just not looked into the matter in any detail.) You might consider putting Boot Think on a USB stick and testing it. If it works, you can then install other boot loaders for testing on your hard disk, and be confident that you can still boot your system using the USB stick if the boot loader on your main disk fails you.

 

What filyeystem do I have to chose for the stick or USB-plugged-HDD?

 

For Boot Think, you'll need to use HFS+. (Perhaps HFS would work, too; I don't know.) When I tried with FAT, the result was a corrupted filesystem and an unbootable USB stick. My hunch is the same would be true of Chameleon, but I'm not positive of that. GRUB2 is much more flexible; it supports half a dozen or more different filesystems, including FAT, HFS+, and the most popular Linux filesystems.

 

Which bootloader should I prefer in your opinion?

 

That's a matter of personal preference. I generally prefer GRUB2, but I admit that its ability to directly boot OS X is immature and potentially flaky. (It works fine for me on one system, but when I tried it on another one yesterday, I ran into problems -- the system would boot partway and then freeze.) From what I've seen, recent versions of Chameleon work better for me than Boot Think on a couple of systems, but others have other experiences.

 

Oh i've forgotten to include the simple method of achieving that.

 

WUBI, install Ubuntu into an empty NTFS partition named Ubuntu from windows. And Thats it.

 

I hadn't heard of this before. I intend to check it out.

 

I already fed up installing Ubuntu the conventional way and what i get are:-

 

1. unreadable and inacessible linux partition in Windows (ext2, ext3, ext4) or osx (ext3 and ext4), no point of multiboot if you cant access linux partition from other OS.

 

This is par for the course with most multi-boot scenarios. Most OSes do a poor job of reading other OSes' native filesystems. Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD, OS/2, BeOS, and others all have their own native filesystems. Some have limited support in other OSes, but for the most part you can't get full read/write access to other OSes' filesystems in a multiboot configuration.

 

What's more, you shouldn't want or need such access. Mucking about in another OS's installation is dangerous. OSes do things with permissions, filesystem-specific features (such as HFS resource forks), and so on that can be easily damaged by a foreign OS. Such damage can even occur if you don't explicitly edit files, too; startup filesystem check programs, buggy scripts, etc., can all cause problems if a foreign filesystem is mounted. This applies to Windows modifying Linux files, to Linux modifying Mac OS files, or any other combination you care to name. If you need to exchange or share data between OSes, the best way to do so is via a separate shared-data partition. Unfortunately, the best filesystem for this remains FAT, which is ancient and limiting. In some configurations, something else might work better (for instance, HFS or HFS+ in a Linux/MacOS multiboot without Windows), but as a general rule, FAT remains the best choice. An external file server is another option. There are even file server "appliances" that can sit on your network for this purpose.

 

2. yeah ext2 kext for OSX can read but linux partition will be named hd04 linux etc

3. of coz stupid naming "hdo4 linux" in Boot Think menu too.

 

An ugly name for a partition in Finder or a boot loader menu is a very minor issue. I've been multibooting for about twenty years, and I even wrote a book on the subject (now long since out of date), so I'm very familiar with the severity of problems that can crop up in a multi-boot configuration. If ugly names were #2 and #3 on my list of problems for a specific installation, I'd consider it to be a smashing success!

 

4. create another useless partition called swap. (modern OS - W7 and SL dont need swap partition to be the best)

 

First, Linux doesn't require a swap partition; it can use a swap file instead or or in addition to a swap partition, or you can use LVM and create a logical volume for swap. (That said, many Linux distribution installers do insist on creating a swap partition, so it can be hard to install without one.)

 

Second, so what??? You don't see the swap partition in day-to-day operation; it doesn't show up as a drive icon in Linux, Windows, or Mac OS, and it shouldn't be an option in any boot loader menu, unless the boot loader is broken or misconfigured to show every partition as an option.

[chokia]

I hadn't heard of this before. I intend to check it out.

 

 

This method is one of the options in ubuntu installation, and you of all people never heard of it?

 

 

 

*Install inside windows doesnt mean you install inside windows partition, you can choose other empty drive or partition. I chosed empty NTFS partition that i named "Ubuntu"

 

Which bootloader should I prefer in your opinion?

 

Boot Think is still my preference. More professional look, without weird color and animal character

[srs5694]

Oh i've forgotten to include the simple method of achieving that.

 

WUBI, install Ubuntu into an empty NTFS partition named Ubuntu from windows. And Thats it.

 

This is now clearly a case of YMMV ("your mileage may vary"). I've tried a WUBI installation twice now. Both times it's failed. It gets most of the way through and then pops up a dialog box that indicates there was a problem adding Ubuntu to the BCD menu because a file couldn't be found. The first time, this rendered my Windows Vista system unbootable. Instead of trying to recover it, I did a fresh install of Windows 7 RC and tried again, with the same results. I haven't rebooted yet, though, so I don't know if the damage will be as bad.

 

FWIW, from a technical perspective, what WUBI does has been done from time to time in the past. It basically sets up a big file in a Windows partition that then gets treated like a hard disk by Linux. This is (or at least, it should be) an easy way to get Linux installed, but it lacks the flexibility of more traditional installation methods. IMHO, it's good for Linux demonstrations, for trying Linux out, and for occasional or casual Linux use; but I wouldn't want to use it for serious Linux installations.

[chokia]

Ok "multibooting for about twenty years" Genius, good luck with your "serious Linux installations"

 

but if that "serious" installation still bring failure to :-

 

1. direct boot with boot think menu

2. direct boot without Grub menu

3. get Ubuntu name on Boot think menu

4. get Ubuntu name in Windows and OSX

5. get Ubuntu partition visible inside windows and OSX

6. access Ubuntu partition from windows and OSX

 

then you can always try again "a case of YMMV" wubi "demontration" method.

 

Im out.

[srs5694]

Ok "multibooting for about twenty years" Genius, good luck with your "serious Linux installations"

 

Enough with the sarcasm. I'm trying to provide helpful information. In this case, I'm pointing out that Wubi doesn't always work as advertised. I'm sure that it does in some cases -- note that I explicitly said that Wubi-like configurations are useful in particular situations, and I never said you were wrong to use Wubi. (I have challenged you on matters of fact here and in other threads. I'm sorry if this has annoyed you, but if so, rather than reply sarcastically, please either post your reasons for believing what you do or accept corrections gracefully.) In computers, there is no one-size-fits-all solution, so information on different ways of doing things can be useful.

 

FWIW, my second attempt at a Wubi install, although unsuccessful, at least left my Windows installation bootable.

[maattdd]

I use this subject to show an issue on my system

With my Leo installation, I used Grub (v1) to dual boot osx and linux.

With my SL, i switched to chameleon RC1 for the useful feature in this bootloader on OSX part, but i can't find a way to make him boot linux.

I installed grub IN my linux partition, and actually, Chameleon show me "linux" on boot screen but when i try to boot it, it's say "Can't find mach_kernel". But it works fine with SL however.

My boot.plist

SnowLeo:~ matthieu$ cat /Extra/com.apple.Boot.plist 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>Kernel</key>
	<string>mach_kernel</string>
	<key>Kernel Flags</key>
	<string></string>
	<key>device-properties</key>	<string>fe0300000100000001000000f20300001500000002010c00d041030a01000000010106000001
0101060000007fff040014000000400032002c006e0061006d00650000001100000073656e736f722
d706172656e74220000005600520041004d002c0074006f00740061006c00730069007a0065000000
080000000000002036000000400032002c00680077006300740072006c002d0070006100720061006
d0073002d00760065007200730069006f006e00000008000000000000021c00000064006500760069
00630065005f0074007900700065000000100000004e5644412c4765466f7263650e0000006e00610
06d00650000000f0000004e5644412c506172656e7422000000400030002c00640065007600690063
0065005f00740079007000650000000b000000646973706c6179100000006d006f00640065006c000
000200000004e7669646961204765466f7263652038383030204754205b4739325d22000000400031
002c006400650076006900630065005f00740079007000650000000b000000646973706c617912000
000400032002c007200650067000000080000000000000222000000400032002c0064006500760069
00630065005f0074007900700065000000120000004e5644412c6770752d64696f646520000000400
032002c0063006f006d00700061007400690062006c0065000000160000004e5644412c73656e736f
722d706172656e7422000000400032002c002300730069007a0065002d00630065006c006c0073000
000080000000000000020000000400031002c0063006f006d00700061007400690062006c00650000
000e0000004e5644412c4e564d616314000000400030002c006e0061006d0065000000120000004e5
644412c446973706c61792d413a000000400032002c0068007700730065006e0073006f0072002d00
70006100720061006d0073002d00760065007200730069006f006e000000080000000000000226000
000400032002c0023006100640072006500730073002d00630065006c006c00730000000800000000
00000114000000400031002c006e0061006d0065000000120000004e5644412c446973706c61792d4
220000000400030002c0063006f006d00700061007400690062006c00650000000e0000004e564441
2c4e564d61631e00000072006f006d002d007200650076006900730069006f006e000000340000004
e7669646961204765466f7263652038383030204754205b4739325d204f70656e474c20456e67696e
65205b4546495d100000004e00560043004100500000001800000004000000000003000c000000000
00007000000000e0000004e00560050004d0000002000000001000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000</string>
	<key>Default Partition</key>
	<string>hd(0,2)</string>
	<key>Timeout</key>
	<string>10</string>
	<key>Theme</key>
	<string>Default</string>
</dict>
</plist>

[srs5694]

I use this subject to show an issue on my system

 

For future reference, it's usually better to start a new thread rather than post a new question to an existing one.

 

With my Leo installation, I used Grub (v1) to dual boot osx and linux.

With my SL, i switched to chameleon RC1 for the useful feature in this bootloader on OSX part, but i can't find a way to make him boot linux.

I installed grub IN my linux partition, and actually, Chameleon show me "linux" on boot screen but when i try to boot it, it's say "Can't find mach_kernel". But it works fine with SL however.

My boot.plist

SnowLeo:~ matthieu$ cat /Extra/com.apple.Boot.plist 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>Kernel</key>
	<string>mach_kernel</string>
	<key>Kernel Flags</key>
	<string></string>

 {snippage here}

	<key>Default Partition</key>
	<string>hd(0,2)</string>
	<key>Timeout</key>
	<string>10</string>
	<key>Theme</key>
	<string>Default</string>
</dict>
</plist>

 

The error message ("can't find mach_kernel") suggests that Chameleon thinks your Linux partition is an OS X partition; mach_kernel is the name of the OS X kernel, not the name of a Linux kernel. If hd(0,2) is your Linux partition, I'd try removing that second entry from com.apple.Boot.plist, or change "hd(0,2)" to point to your OS X partition rather than your Linux partition. You might also try checking the partition type codes of your partitions; it's conceivable that Chameleon would get confused if the Linux partition's type code is set incorrectly. Linux partitions should be of type 0x83 on MBR disks, or GUID EBD0A0A2-B9E5-4433-87C0-68B6B72699C7 (which can be reported in various different ways by different utilities) on GPT disks. The equivalent codes for OS X partitions are 0xAF and 48465300-0000-11AA-AA11-00306543ECAC for MBR and GPT, respectively.