Typing on a G4 - how are these parts for easy compatibility?

[mwilloam]

Currently struggling with the an old G4 and its unbearable render times. I'm interested in putting together a Core 2 duo machine but want to keep $$$ to a minimum and compatibility/ease of install to a maximum. I'm somewhat tech savy but don't have much experience with BIOS and specific hardware builds since I've always been on a Mac. I've read the forums over and just want to get thoughts and opinions on a system based on these parts:

 

MOBO: Gigabyte - GA-G31M-ES2L 775 ATX Motherboard ($55) or ASUS - P5KPL-CM G31 775 mATX Motherboard ($55)

 

Processor: Dual-Core Processor E5200 ($70) or Core 2 Duo Processor E7400 ($100)

 

Video card??? need some help on this one. Not sure of these MOBO's built in capabilities.

 

RAM: 2-4gigs ($20-$40)

 

Sata Drive: ($40)

 

Samsung DVDRW ($25)

 

Power and case ($25?)

 

So even with a new keyboard and mouse I'm looking at anywhere $250-$350 ballpark. Looks like a great deal, unless I can't get anything installed and working because of compatibility issues. Any and all thoughts and opinions appreciated.

[Nick14]

Pick a HD3870,HD2400XT or a Geforce 9400gt

[mwilloam]

Thanks I'll take a look at those. How is the integrated Intel GMA 3100 on the Giga board? I know a dedicated card is better and I will be doing some video but I really need to keep $$$ at a minimum and am happy if it outdoes a G4 at this point, plus I can always upgrade later. I think the system I'll try out is:

 

GA-G31M-ES2L 775 ATX Motherboard

http://microcenter.com/single_product_resu...duct_id=0303794

 

Core 2 Duo Processor E7400

http://microcenter.com/single_product_resu...duct_id=0301964

 

This along with a: SATA drive, DVDRW, CASE/POWER, firewire card should be under $300 no problem. Is the Core 2 Duo Processor E7300 worth an extra $30? I figure start with the E7400 and get the machine working first and then can always upgrade to a Quad 3.0 later right?

[broken]

Sadly the x3100 isn't supported at all. You will most likely get basic vesa video, no acceleration at all. If even that much.

 

You really want a separate video card.

 

The e5200 is a very good cpu thats also a champ at OC'ing. I am running one in my box and its smoking fast considering the price.

[Zaap]

I agree, the E5200 should work fine for your needs.

 

Don't make the mistake of trying to use unsupported onboard graphics. Without QE/CI- it's useless.

 

If you must go with onboard, try looking for an older supported board with the Intel GMA 950 graphic chipset. There are a number of 950-based boards that work perfectly if you can still find them, or even a Shuttle barebones, or Atom system with GMA 950.

 

Otherwise, get a supported PCIe graphic card with full hardware acceleration and resolution support. It's the difference between a REAL, fully-functional computing experience, and just a crappy experiment.

 

An entry level card like an 8400GS should be just fine for what you need.

[mwilloam]

How about installing Tiger on this setup? Does Tiger have a retail disc install method? I'm much more comfortable with hardware install than software. I'd really appreciate someone breaking down a step by step guide for the install process with this machine. Thanks again.

[MacUser2525]

How about installing Tiger on this setup? Does Tiger have a retail disc install method? I'm much more comfortable with hardware install than software. I'd really appreciate someone breaking down a step by step guide for the install process with this machine. Thanks again.

 

I would buy a cheap USB SATA enclosure use the connector as an adapter so you can plug in the bare drive on the anti-static bag then install onto it put the needed patches on it while still connected to your G4 where you ran the installer from. Then you can take it to the new machine to confirm boot from USB if it works then disconnect to put it in the machine and your good to go. The basic procedure for a retail install is mounting the image of your install disk open the installer from a directory on the disk itself then you partition and install onto the external USB drive after your done you copy the .kext for your patches needed and install a boot loader onto the USB drive, done right it should just work on your new machine without problems. BTW get yourself a good quality power supply 400w+ range by someone like Corsair, Enermax, Thermaltake, Antec, Seasonic among others 80+ efficiency Active PFC if you can get it don't go with a cheap POS generic brand it is the most important part for a good stable machine that will last.

[Synaesthesia]

How about installing Tiger on this setup? Does Tiger have a retail disc install method? I'm much more comfortable with hardware install than software. I'd really appreciate someone breaking down a step by step guide for the install process with this machine. Thanks again.

I wouldn't go for Tiger - It has way less support for new drivers and is old technology anyway.

[Zaap]

Yeah, forget Tiger. You'll have a lot more trouble trying to install that than Leopard.

 

To start with, you should try out one of the OSX 'distros' like iPC or iDeneb- as late a version as possible, 10.5.5 or 10.5.6

 

During the install, you can select all the custom drivers you need- use the specifications of your motherboard as a guide to which drivers to select, IE: (chipset- Intel ICHx, Audio- Realtek ALC 8xx, or 'Azalia', LAN-Realtek 8xxx, etc.)

 

For the graphic card, use a tool like EFI Studio or OSx86 Tools to create a custom graphics string based on your exact card- or some of the distros now can do the custom string for you at initial setup. I'd go for the EFI string method for graphics always, as opposed to the older NVinject and other methods.

 

You can at least see how well everything works, and later go for a retail install- just look for a guide to your exact board.

 

I will say this- if you're OK with a full sized ATX case, then I'd HIGHLY recommend going for a well-supported full-sized ATX motherboard, as opposed to a mATX board. The reason why is, there are several models of full sized Gigabyte boards that are so well documented and supported that it's child's play to get OSX running on them- retail install and distros work perfectly, and there are tons of guides.

 

For example: Gigabyte EP45-UD3(x), or older (E)P35-DS3L

 

The boards cost more than the mATX boards, but the real 'savings' comes in ease of setup, and lots of documentation that make installing as easy as following an exact recipe.

 

At any rate, if you're worried about how to install, pick a board that's really well documented and it's hard to go wrong.

[mwilloam]

Thank you all for the info. I'm still on the fence with whether or not to attempt a Hack build. Todays Mac Mini updates are less than exciting but for that price it might be worth it for me to spend the extra to avoid the install trouble of a Hack. That being said, I love DIY projects and a $300 machine is seriously tempting. And while I'm somewhat tech savy, EFI strings, kexts, etc.. are foreign to me, as is Windows and bios configs. So, am I just being a puss or am I the reason for Apples target market?

[mwilloam]

So i just purchased my setup:

 

Gigabyte 945GCM-S2C

 

Intel E5200

 

EVGA e-GeForce 8400 GS

 

Hitachi Deskstar 500GB

 

Pioneer DVR-212D

 

2GB PC2-6400 800/667

 

$327.92 without tax and rebates which will bring it down to about $300 .... not bad

 

now ... I'm currently downloading Kalyway 10.5.2. Is this the best installer for me? Is a retail disc easier or more compatible for installing? Most importantly, can I run the installer like you say below?

 

I would buy a cheap USB SATA enclosure use the connector as an adapter so you can plug in the bare drive on the anti-static bag then install onto it put the needed patches on it while still connected to your G4 where you ran the installer from.

 

I have a WD USB/Firewire/e-Sata external drive. So I can plug my new boot drive into that and run the DMG from my G4 to do an install? Then just plug the drive into the Hack? Thanks a bunch for the info.

[MacUser2525]

So i just purchased my setup:

 

Gigabyte 945GCM-S2C

 

Intel E5200

 

EVGA e-GeForce 8400 GS

 

Hitachi Deskstar 500GB

 

Pioneer DVR-212D

 

2GB PC2-6400 800/667

 

$327.92 without tax and rebates which will bring it down to about $300 .... not bad

 

now ... I'm currently downloading Kalyway 10.5.2. Is this the best installer for me? Is a retail disc easier or more compatible for installing? Most importantly, can I run the installer like you say below?

 

 

 

I have a WD USB/Firewire/e-Sata external drive. So I can plug my new boot drive into that and run the DMG from my G4 to do an install? Then just plug the drive into the Hack? Thanks a bunch for the info.

 

You certainly can do it that way probably better off without the Kalyway anyways it is much easier to upgrade a retail install as you know every part of it that was changed.

[Synaesthesia]

now ... I'm currently downloading Kalyway 10.5.2. Is this the best installer for me? Is a retail disc easier or more compatible for installing? Most importantly, can I run the installer like you say below?

Get yourself a more modern distribution, like XxX 10.5.6, iPC, or iDeneb. Then you will have 10.5.6.

 

I'm surprised you didn't go for the G31M-ES2L. Especially seeing as you went and bought a graphics card. Does the E5200 even work on the 945GCM-S2C? (45nm)

[Zaap]

The 945GCM-S2C will support the e5200, but only with BIOS version F6a.

 

Unfortunately, there's a nasty catch-22 you're probably going to run into. In order to flash the BIOS to the latest that supports 45nm, you may need a 65nm processor to do it. It could be that the board ships with the latest BIOS, but that often isn't the case.

 

I'm a little surprised at the choice too; I only recommend an older GMA950-based board IF working onboard graphics was an absolute must, since the GMA 950 graphic chipset is supported. Otherwise, the choice is a bit of a PITA compared to the newer board + graphic card.

[mwilloam]

The 945GCM-S2C will support the e5200, but only with BIOS version F6a.

 

Unfortunately, there's a nasty catch-22 you're probably going to run into. In order to flash the BIOS to the latest that supports 45nm, you may need a 65nm processor to do it. It could be that the board ships with the latest BIOS, but that often isn't the case.

 

I'm a little surprised at the choice too; I only recommend an older GMA950-based board IF working onboard graphics was an absolute must, since the GMA 950 graphic chipset is supported. Otherwise, the choice is a bit of a PITA compared to the newer board + graphic card.

 

Ouch ... i just got the hardware setup. I'll boot into bios and see whats cooking. I assume i can take it back since the sales guy should have known this, or at least that might allow me to exchange it.

 

UPDATE: The bios looks to be F5, and Giga says F6a is what's needed but the initial startup screen recognizes the processor??? So i don't know.

 

Last question ... I don't know how to flash bios ... should I just pack it and give in? I may be over my head.

[Zaap]

mwilloam, you should be okay- it's great that the board posts with the e5200 and the older BIOS. I recently had the same situation with an Asus board and a new Q8300 processor. Before a BIOS update, the machine would post, but wasn't really seeing the newer processor properly. (Unknown clock speed, no temp sensors or power control, etc.) But luckily I was able to upgrade to the latest BIOS without using an older processor, and then everything was perfect.

 

Your board has QFlash, which is easy to use.

 

Just download the latest (F6a) BIOS from Gigabyte's website and extract it to a USB flash drive. (You'll need to do that with a Windows PC)

 

Boot the machine, go into QFlash (look for an F-key on the BIOS splash screen) and then select the USB Flash drive. Don't interrupt the process until the utility tells you the BIOS has been updated.

 

You can find a PDF with full instructions here.

 

It's a really easy process to do, but if you don't feel comfortable trying it, have the shop where you got it (I'm assuming brick and mortar?) do it for you.