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specific cpus and chipsets


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#1
Metalchic

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i have a couple of computers i wanted to try OS X on one of them. research has thrown out 10.7 already. So! my question would be weather i should even give it a try and where i should start or if i should even try. so heres what i've got.

Lenovo 3000 n100 (laptop)
Pentium T2060 1.6GHz dual core cpu (interesting subject, its basicly a Core Duo with 1mb of cache removed)

2GB DDR2 533 ram (actualy this ram is DDR2 800 and the CPU is a FSB1066 cpu and the chipset supports DDR2 667 but i would expect a FSB1066 motherboard to support DDR2 800 but whatever, its not in dual channel mode becasue i dont have another 2gb card to put in it the only dual channel set i have in SO-DIMM would only give me 1GB of ram)

and of course the chipset/graphics would be
Intel i945GM chipset (GMA950)

this computer also has a 160GB SATA hard drive. i'm not sure what the connection is for the CD but i suspect that its IDE (i can go find out if it would make a big difference)

the second computer i'm trying to make this work with is simmilar but not quite, its a Lenovo Thinkcenter 3000 J110.
Pentium D 820 2.8GHz Dual core CPU (unlike the T2060 wich is newer this cpu is 64bit)

512MB DDR2 667 ram (this is configured with 2x 256MB cards to work the Dual Channel but i can go up to 3GB DDR2 800 ram on this but the cards would be mismatched, only 2 card slots)

on this one its simmilar but not quite
Intel i956gz (GMA3000)

the computer is still using the IDE hard drive from my linux/windows experements and the IDE DVD drive but i can probably use SATA drives (mabye borrowing the SATA DVD drive from my main computer and using a SATA hard drive)

so i have also an unknown Dell board i've had working before with the Pentium D and has 4 ram slots that i could mix n match the ram better but i dont know what chipset it has. i kinda wanna get the laptop running so i can see if i can get better OpenGL preformance becasue the GMA950 doesnt have proper DirectX 9 support but does work with OpenGL 2. Windows doesnt handle OpenGL well and the linux drivers for the 915 derivitaves dont support any 3D at all so yeah, then theres the final thing that will probably be go or nogo and thats the software i have. picked from the envolope of on the side of a busted case is a mostly mint condition 10.5 install disk. but i dont know how the lisenceing works weather or not getting this from this computer would legaly let me install it on another computer (its not like windows where i could salvage the Key off a dell and install it on a dell or that i could get an OEM windows to reinstall the windows for that computer using the liscense, but also that retail lisences are transferable but Mac OS lisences are really confusing) so for me it comes down to weather or not i can reuse this disk or if i cant, if i cant then well trying to squeeze more life out ofm y almost 6 year old laptop well i guess not.

(i'm sorry for the poor thought organization and spelling problems in my post)

edit: i also realize that i should point out that i cant find any information about 915 derivitave chipsets and Core Duo (Pentium T2060) and Pentium 4 (Pentium D 820) derivatives for example my main computer is an E7500 Core2 Duo and an intel P43 Express chipset and i can find plenty of info about it.

#2
3.14r2

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Both machines should be able to run (with varying degree of success) from Tiger to Snow Leopard.

Lenovo 3000 n100 is probably more suitable as it has Core architecture CPU which makes it possible to use stock OS X kernel. It can probably be something similar to early Intel Mac Book model. There might be (not 100% sure on that) some issues with GMA950, as Lenovo has a strange variation of this VGA. In general GMA950 is well supported, it's just Lenovo/IBM can be (not necessary is) troublesome. Nevertheless many people run OS X on a similar hardware. Another concern might be WI-Fi card. As to optical drive, it doesn't matter at all is it IDE or SATA, usually both work. Also one can probably upgrade CPU to say T1200, T2300 or T2500 (which was used in Mac Books) or T7600. There is google for more info :)

The other PC, is less suitable as (correct me if I'm wrong) will need a patched kernel. Also there is a catch with GMA3000 if it's GMA3000 - not GMA X3000 then, AFAIK, it will not work. As for IDE/SATA disk it doesn't really matter (except for speed).

As for the licensing, OS X is 100% legal on Macs only. On a PC it depends on circumstances. Apple (differently from other vendors) sells computers that are as a home appliance in concept, where everything needed for the device to perform the intended function(s) is included (read Apple design both hardware and software and sells it as a ready to use device). Therefore I don't think (assuming that the disk you've mentioned came together with Mac as an installation media) one can transfer OS X license from one Mac to another (let alone from Mac to a Windows PC), as it is non separable product as Windows is (Windows is sold and marketed as a separate, self contained product). Sure there are OS X disk that were sold separately, but the same applies - OS X is 100% legal on Macs only, on a PC it depends on circumstances.

For the info on CPUs&Chipsets the site of Intel could be helpful. Also http://www.cpu-world.com/ is very helpful for CPU info. Google and Wikipedia know a lot. One can run Linux lspci tool to know more about hardware used.

#3
Metalchic

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well the early macbooks used i945 chipsets thats what gave me the idea it could work, there just wasent alot of info to attempt it. there seems to be issues with the Direct X support on the GMA950 for example the orange fog on the world of warcraft cataclysm title screen apears solid in Direct X mode but is fine in OpenGL mode. the desktop is really more of an experement (to see if i can kinda thing) the laptop is the one i really wanna get working, the desktop does in fact have a GMA3000 not the GMA X3000. i actualy ususaly run it with a Radeon HD3450 but i couldent find any HD 3000 series listed anywhere for support on macs so yeah.

if i'm getting upgrades for the laptop they would need to be cheap (~100USD) or else its not really worth it and i could just start saving for a new one. the Lenovo 3000 n100 is 6 years old now so yeah. anyway the wireless i have in it right now is an Atheros card from a Toshiba M115-S1061 (becasue Windows 7 has drivers built in for it) but the card that came with it is a Broadcom BMC94311MCG that i've had trouble with Windows drivers with in the past so i swaped for the Atheros (unfortunatly the atheros doesnt support the wireless activity led on the front.)

also the i945 is not 100% even for 65nm Core 2 Duos it might only do Core Duos. i remember reading up on the T2060 and the i945 and reading about case by case support for 64bit Core 2 Duo cpus somtimes it works somtimes it doesnt. the T2060 is very similar to the T2300 mostly that the T2060 is only 1MB L2 and 533MHz FSB. actualy the T2060 is the T2050 just with only 1MB L2 instaid of 2MB. not sure 100% how that works but yeah anyway.

#4
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GMA950 in OS X can only use 64Mb of memory while in Windows it can be up to 128Mb. I don't really know why it's so, but that's the fact. GMA950 isn't really a gaming card after all, more like for basic functions.

One can find some cheap used CPUs on eBay/Amazon, as well as other components such as RAM, WIFI (if any needed).

#5
Metalchic

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well i've read that atheros chipsets are better to use with Mac OS X or was that just very specific chipsets? i've managed to do some strange thigns with non windowd OS (linux in this case) and a GeForce 4 Ti so i figured i could squeeze a bit more out of it in this case. plus i dont really have anything better to do with the laptop (if i could get more stable framerates in wow or minecraft running mp i would use it a bit more)

do you reccomend a specific method or should i just look around and try some in the order i find them?

according to some research i should be able to run any 533/667 FSB T7xxx cpu. so i'll take a look around for possible upgrades. this one has the mpga478 mobile socket. actualy very easy to get to so. i do wonder however, the T2060 is a 32bit cpu, the T7600 is a 64bit cpu, i'm not sure how that works on a laptop (it seems very cut and dry on desktops but OEM computers and laptops seem to be picky about ram) that it should properly support 4GB+ of ram? (i probably wouldent put more than 4GB in it anyway but with a 64bit cpu it should properly do 4gb right?)

i checked out this thread about a system info tool to identify in use kexts and can be used on windows to check hardware compadibility, it doesnt like the Memory Stick part of my universal card reader (the SD part is fine the whole thing seems to be on the PCI bus not USB) and it doesnt like my SAA7134 TV capture card drivers but i wont have that installed. i'm gonna go ahead and try some tutorials to see if it works.

#6
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well i've read that atheros chipsets are better to use with Mac OS X or was that just very specific chipsets?

It's more like specific chipsets. Apple uses both Atheros and Broadcom cards, obviously only certain models are used. Moreover different versions of OS X may support different sets of cards. There two groups of these - supported natively by OS X (cards used in Macs) and cards that can be supported with some modifications (cards with similar chipsets to cards used in Macs). The safest choice is to have the card that is supported natively. These can be bought used too.

do you reccomend a specific method or should i just look around and try some in the order i find them?

The best experience is the experience gained with own mistakes :) The best option is to install from retail OS X disk using special boot CDs (boot132 based and others). This would gives the best possible result (the most stable and reliable system). There are disk that supports compatible CPUs and there also are disk with support of unsupported CPUs (AMD, P4, old Xeons etc.). Select the one you hardware needs.

You can also use a patched OS X disks (AKA "distro"). It may seem easier but is regarded as lame (IMO) :) It's up to you which way to go. The rule of thumb is to search either by PC model or by chipset and/or CPU/GPU type used.

the T2060 is a 32bit cpu, the T7600 is a 64bit cpu, i'm not sure how that works on a laptop (it seems very cut and dry on desktops but OEM computers and laptops seem to be picky about ram) that it should properly support 4GB+ of ram? (i probably wouldent put more than 4GB in it anyway but with a 64bit cpu it should properly do 4gb right?)

More RAM is always good :) Provided the motherboard (let alone the chipset) can handle 4GB RAM, it should work. My notebook with similar chipset is limited to 2GB max.

As to OS limitations, OS X can "see" all 4GB even in 32-bit version (Windows on the other hand is limited to around 3.5Gb in 32-bit version). So don't worry about that much.

it doesnt like the Memory Stick part of my universal card reader (the SD part is fine the whole thing seems to be on the PCI bus not USB) and it doesnt like my SAA7134 TV capture card drivers but i wont have that installed

With card readers it's quite common - I also have non functional RICOH reader. USB external reader does the job well. TV card is another story.

#7
Metalchic

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(i'm just gonna take all the garbage i wrote here and put it in a trash compactor)

#8
Metalchic

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ok so i found an old (like 2009) guide with a prebuilt iso for GMA950/3000/X3000 suposivly compadible Chameleon 2 RC3 bootloader on it and its loaded up so far i'm repartitioning the hard disk now.

i had some trouble figuring out how to 'repartition with a guid partition table' but i figured out you just choose erase as Mac os extended to do that. its installing now. i got this thing in the corner thats a wireless icon and when i click it it says airport on and shows my local wireless network ids so i'm assuming that my atheros card has a compadible chipset. its installing now.


i dont know what to say, using the boot loader disk it installed fine, took about 45 minutes and after finishing it detected my wireless and configured the internet connection, i was able to download and install chameleon 2.1 svn 2000 on the hard drive (its booting now we'll see.) i had no problems with the keyboard (alt seems to be Command) and 2 finger scrolling is even working on my Synaptic touchpad. i feel liks all this is workign to smoothly to be true. idk what to say.


DEEPBREATH... SIGH... ok so it was fine on the first boot but now its refusing to play nice with my Linksys WRT54G v8. i can connect to the router configuration at 192.168.1.1 but safari and software update bolth tell me theres no possible internet connection, it also seems to be refusing to connect via ethernet (not even an option) using my wireless ethernet bridge that i'm using for this computer, it feels alot less like a problem with mac os x itself and more a problem with my wtr54g v8 and the fact that its somthing like 9-10 years old. i'm not sure how to convince the computer to attempt to reestablish a connection. its not even trying right now.

the internet started working again after a reboot (4th times the charm i guess?) and now its downloading updates. the computer has been overall detected as a mac pro i dont think it realizes its a laptop.

one of the things that i wasent brought to understand reading through some guides (most of them are from 2009) would be that i would need a special or somthing like that bootloader for 10.6.8 so i'm starting over from scratch to see if i can figure it out (things were running pretty well till that point)

i dont feel like anyone is interested in this project :( but i'm gonna post my results anyway so here we go.

well its working, i feel like i've been hitting it with all the finece of a sledgehammer for the last 4 hours. the first major problem was the 10.6.8 boot issue, i solved that one by guide hopping till i figured out what files i need to pull out of the chameleon boot disk to put into the hard drive boot loader to get it to not hang, then i had issues with a kernel panic becasue of the audio. i installed somthing called voodoo for the audio (i had a problem with the internal mic getting feedback from the speakers so the high pich wail but then i discovered the voodoo control panel cus the mac sound control panel doesnt let you completely mute the mic) i'm not sure if the ethernet is working but it doesnt really matter becasue i got the wifi working with airport so yeah. i ended up deleting all the kexts at one time to get rid of issues with doubling up on drivers unintentialy which messed up the touchpad setup tho :( i'll take alook at it another time.

however my overall goal for this computer has been met, its very zippy compared to having windows 7 on it. preformance in minecraft for example is up from 3-5fps to 20-30 fps and i suspect that running multiplayer (so my main PC is handling the CPU and Hard drive I/O intensive part) it could be better. the various windows smoothness (especialy that effect of minimizing somthing to the dock) are quite smooth (as is HD youtube) especialy considering how wimpy the GMA950 is even when pushed up to 400mhz (i belive the one in this one was originaly run 233mhz stock) tho i just tried full screen 720p youtube. its not liking it very much on either safari or firefox. i hope that somone can find this thread usefull someday.

i would also like to know if i should post about compadiblity somwhere for this (since the only modification i made for this computer was the swap out of the wireless card. and i was able to install from an unmodified retail install dvd ok well mabye not 100% unmodified, does copying it over to a usb stick count as modification? i couldent get the boot disk to refresh or whatever when i swapped the disks)

#9
3.14r2

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Glad you've made it!

i would also like to know if i should post about compadiblity somwhere for this (since the only modification i made for this computer was the swap out of the wireless card. and i was able to install from an unmodified retail install dvd ok well mabye not 100% unmodified, does copying it over to a usb stick count as modification? i couldent get the boot disk to refresh or whatever when i swapped the disks)

There is a compatibility page to post the info to http://wiki.osx86pro...x.php/Main_Page

Copying to USB isn't regarded as patching/modification - it's changing of media type.





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