does anyone else think apple needs to change their desktop product line a bit?

[pedro_sandchez]

Lately, Ive been really wanting to get a new mac.

Picking which one has proven to be a daunting task.

intel vs g5 aside, there doesnt seem to me to be a feasable desktop mac that fits my needs.

 

On the lowest end of the power spectrum you have the mac mini.

for 500 dollars you can get a decent computer. But after purchasing a display, keyboard, and mouse, the price rockets to over a grand (assuming you only buy apple branded peripherals).

Well, for that money, you can get a more powerful Imac.

But the problem I have with the imac, is that once I buy it, there is no upgradability really and the integrated display, though really neat and space saving poses a problem for me.

what if in 2 years I want to upgrade to a powermac (or whatever its called when it goes intel)?

Then I have to buy a new display and the like.

 

It just seems to me, that there should be an option with the power of the imac, but without the integrated screen. this way, I could buy that, and a suitable display. Then in 2 years or so, If I want to upgrade, I just have to buy a new pc, not spend money on a new imac with an integrated screen I dont really need.

 

thats just my .02, maybe i'm being stupid, but I know that if this were an option right now, I'd buy it in a heart beat.

 

maybe once the new intel minis come out, they will be at least close to equal in power to the imac and therefore filling the void I'm looking for.

one can only hope I suppose

[Eggman]

Anh... You make good points, Pedro. Of course, really, an iMac seems like it would be fine for most people. I read somewhere on here that processors are really too powerful; some mod or some big poster said they could actually work fine with a Pentium 3 in Windows.

 

I've never had a Mac of my own, so I may be wrong in terms of feasibility. Here's my idea, though: get a Mac Mini and an Apple monitor. If you decide in the future to get a PowerMac, you'll still have the monitor. Or, if you want, you could buy an iMac and possibly get a dual-screen setup going! Just my though...

[The Doc]

Whoever said that they get by with a P3 in Windows must not be doing anything BUT surfing the web, reading email and watching the occaisional DVD.

 

For one thing don't try to run any kind of multimedia software LOL...

 

Anyways, I would say wait for the dust to settle so to speak, see what new models Apple releases and then make your choice. For me, I just want a powerful mobile solution, which is why I'm waiting for the MacBook Pro 17". The same "build" with Windows and such from leading laptop makers is almost 2000$ more than the MacBookPro, and seeing as I love OSX x86, its a natural fit. I should be able to run all the windows {censored} I need with Darwine and the like.

 

SO I think that your best bet is to just play the waiting game for a bit. See what Apple comes up with. If not, you could always build your own MacTel! JUST KIDDING!!! *Hides from Apple's Legal Gorilla.*

 

Don't hurt me

 

Doc

[cyrana]

I think they got bit a bit back in the day when they had tons of different Mac types (was that under Amelio or someone else?). This would have been back to the Performa Centris days. It was confusing to consumers.

[Mac OSX Coder]

I think what you are looking for is more of a PC, but with Mac OSX86 (hmm why does that sound so familiar?) Basically we all want to be able to upgrade our "macs" with better processors, hard drivevs, ram etc etc. All these are feasible with the current macintosh computers, but are much more expensive that regular PCS, I.E. 1GB Ram for Mac, $500. 1GB Ram for others, ~$200 (for decent) Macs just cost too much to upgrade, and if you sum up the total of all our upgrades, you might as well just buy a new computer.

 

It also sucks Apple keeps coming out with a new computer like every year, not that it's not good, it just makes us with the old computer want to spend money to get the "latest" and best computer, and we can't just get it with upgrading. I still like my old computer, but it wouldn't hurt to have a new one.

 

Just my point of view. Flame me all you want. I don't really care nor will I read your post. :]

[Hagar]

I keep hoping that apple will come up with a "PTK" - a PC Transition Kit.. literally a machine that will lure pc-users into buying a Mac..

 

Make it a simple but distinctive case with slots & bays to spare, the internals will be familiar to any PC User, and the only difference will be that this one runs macOS natively and legitimately. set up to multi-boot from the outset, maybe sell it with windows pre-installed alongside MacOS, & bundle a copy of SuSe for good measure.

 

Of course it would take careful bit of judgement to get the spec & price right to suit the market & still bring in a profit without affecting the other lines, but handled right, such a machine would do wonders for their market share.

 

I know Id buy one.

[Metrogirl]

Nice idea, Hagar - I'd like to see that too. I won't buy an iMac because of that upgradeablity issue, but to be honest all those caveats apply almost equally to notebooks too. In the basement I have a nice 15" screen laptop which I don't use any more because it's only 700MHz and there's no way to upgrade it. (Actually I keep it as my backup firewall, but it's a bottleneck when I have to use it).

 

As for a P3 being sufficient, well, if you kill all those unnecessary services in Windows you might just get away with it, though I was quite happy with my P3 with Windows 98 and its apps not so long ago. The big problem is bloatware, both OS and applications. I don't use half the functionality in a lot of apps, and I use back-level versions of many just because the new ones are so lumbering and slow with all those stupid features. One thing I really like about OSX is the simplicity of getting rid of stuff you don't want, unlike Windows applications which never uninstall cleanly.

[R. Bear Helms]

I think there are at least 3 occasions where I've switched to a Mac, been happy and comfortable with it... for about 6-10 months, tops.

 

There's always some great game, some multimedia web site, some new shareware, some special hardware driver, some peer-to-peer file sharing application, some utility, SOMETHING that is PC only.

 

It's like buying a car that runs on diesel, figuring you can get the fuel anywhere, and discovering that most gas stations are not selling that fuel anymore. (Not a real case, but a hypothetical analogue.)

 

Java and .Net technologies are an ATTEMPT to make some content (mostly Internet) universal, but there's a huge gap between platform agnostic web pages and platform agnostic applications.

 

There's seldom any examples of programs that run the same way, the same efficiency, PC and Mac. The examples you can find usually are Open Source. Commercial apps, when there are 2 platform versions, almost always have a superior solution PC-wise. Not every single case, but generally speaking, I think this is correct.

 

The downside to a PC is that the OS is so popular and so much under a microscope that people develop exploitive software for it every hour of every day. It's quite a petri dish for malware. Not because the OS is weak or badly designed! It's because too many people know too many technical details of an OS that is after all made by human beings.

 

If the same focus and attention were given to OS X, it too would be rife with viruses, trojans, worms, and spyware. Why spend the same amount of effort to snag like 1% of the PCs on the net when you can get the other 99% instead?

 

Windows Vista will give you much nicer OS look and feel than XP, but whether it's going to be a good compatible upgrade from XP, I can't tell you.

 

Mac OS is going to tie your hands when it comes to choices of, well most anything - there's only 1 real decent CD/DVD authoring program for it (Toast, which isn't x86 compatible and doesn't like Rosetta), there's only 1 really affordable and easy video editing solution for home use, etc.

 

Apple intends to foil OSx86 running on non-Apple hardware, so you consider it as an option, PLAN on it breaking sooner or later.

 

XP comes pre-broken However, there's so many helpful people trained on XP troubleshooting and problem-solving, you tend to be able to get over almost ANY hurdle with it.

 

I own a Mac Mini, and I am planning to wean myself off using it. It probably will become a bittorrent machine afterward.

[snackole]

Compare Macintosh to Saturn both lack in choice of models, but prices are pretty much the same everywhere.

[pedro_sandchez]

helms

from your post it seems like you are dissatisfied with software support for the mac.

Is this the only reason you plan to "wean" yourself off of the mac mini?

Or are there other problems that you have other than software support?

 

I'm not really all that concerned about software support.

I'll still have my windows laptop to use in situations where windows is a must.

And I also look at as, just by being a mac user, you are helping the lack of software issue. One more user means more demand for mac software which in turn means companies will produce more.

[Ben22]

Hello all,

 

I’ve been dropping by every so often for the past few months reading what people had to say about the Mactel transition.

 

Personally, I think Hagar has the best suggestion for the tech crowd. My jaw dropped when I first saw the PTK kit and I’ve been dying to get one along those lines since it’s been out.

 

I’ve cooled down a great deal on getting a new Mactel since the EFI issue became apparent. I don’t expect Apple to bundle Windows with their products, but at least leave the door partially opened. I don’t care for where this serialized security control the EFI and TPM chip are pointing at either. They’ll pitch it as a security feature for our own good (anti spyware/virus bulletproof encrypted DMCA approved OS) but it’ll be a data-mining goldrush (no pun intended) with each PC having it’s own distinct hardware based fingerprint.

 

The DMCA approved part sounds harsh, but considering Apples interest in the music industry, it’s naive to think they are not thinking of using their EFI/TPM framework to secure media and software.

 

If Microsoft did this (and I’m not saying they don’t – serialized Pentium CPU was the start and people freaked) there would be blood in the street. Where Apple intends on taking this should be an interesting show.

 

Part of my job is in rewriting legacy software (windows based) and network support (PC based) so a home system that is windows based is a must. I love OSX and for most of my personal affairs it would be a fine system to work with. I’m sure a great many people out there would love to get an Apple system, but due to software constraints put up with Windows based systems. Emulation/Virtual Machines are cool but I don’t see my regular users moving towards that (A jammed printer freaks them out so imagine VMWare or better yet Darwine )

 

Enough ramblings … Good night all.