Numberzz Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 One of Microsoft's main OS designers, Eric Traut, had a demo of the next version of the Windows Kernel. Traut ran a stripped-down version of Windows 7 called "MinWin" that included only the core kernel. For the first time Windows NT has been seen without even a GUI. It ran only a miniature web server that would display simple HTML pages, including some pages that showed the task list and other properties of MinWin itself. Thirteen tasks were running: smss.exe, csrss.exe, and svchost.exe were all there, plus the mini web server httpsrv.exe. The OS ran under Virtual PC, and this allowed Traut to show the audience exactly how many resources it was consuming: about 25MB on disk and 40MB of RAM. The OS booted up in about 20 seconds inside Virtual PC. This is remarkably small for Windows. Traut said that he would "still like to see it get smaller." Full Story YouTube Video of the Demo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diegah Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 soo...... Mac OS X forum !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tops Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 soo...... Mac OS X forum !! Windows news is pretty important in an OS X forum... Anyway, I'm impressed with Microsoft to some extent with the announcement and demo of this kernel, but they have a whole lot of work to do on Vista before I can gain back some respect for their development team. A light kernel is nice, but a good operating system is just as important. Good UI, stability, and following through on promises are all more important to me personally. Aero was a good start, but it was nowhere near enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I'm glad their heading in the right direction but... Can't we move beyond Windows NT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 40MB??? I can run a vLite'd XP install in about 50, with full GUI userland. Not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Ingus Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Windows news is pretty important in an OS X forum... LOL Oh wait, you were trying to be serious. Sorry I'm with Azurael, not impressed. Hopefully they can improve it but by then Mac OS version 11.0 will be out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnm Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 really whats so impressive about this… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cringemaster Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 interesting. idk about impressive, but goes to show how Microsoft isnt done with the nt kernel just yet. maybe theyll surprise us with its capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbz Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 lol no, microsoft has to DUMP the NT kernel. It's old, vulnerable, their OSes built on it SUCK, etc, etc, etc. Microsoft needs to get serious about their OS. People are sick and tired of it. And I'm not saying that they'll all switch to Macs, but Microsoft is leaving the turf wide open for competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayanami Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 They're trying. I'll give them that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Ingus Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 maybe theyll surprise us with its capabilities. As the little red train went up the hill it bravely puffed faster and faster and said "I think I can, I think I can..." LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayanami Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 As the little red train went up the hill it bravely puffed faster and faster and said "I think I can, I think I can..." LOL Hey...It could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdshft Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 MinWin merely sounds impressive, but all it is is a recycled version of the XP/Vista NT kernel. What Microsoft keeps doing is recycling old software and adding new features. Yes, NT core recieved great updates for Vista, but it's essentially that same NT core through all versions, and nothing new. They make great software, no doubt. But if they take a hint from Apple, I think we could see a wonderful rejuvenation in the Windows market. (I almost said PC, forgetting that technically now Macs are PC's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminaire Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 MinWin merely sounds impressive, but all it is is a recycled version of the XP/Vista NT kernel. What Microsoft keeps doing is recycling old software and adding new features. Yes, NT core recieved great updates for Vista, but it's essentially that same NT core through all versions, and nothing new. They make great software, no doubt. But if they take a hint from Apple, I think we could see a wonderful rejuvenation in the Windows market. (I almost said PC, forgetting that technically now Macs are PC's) I think they are taking a huge hint from Apple actually. The kernel is getting smaller. Now where did I hear reduction of code before? Oh yes, it was Leopard. Steve himself said that Leopard's code would be halved. The result would be more efficiency. Not only that, but the smaller it is, the easier it is to correct errors. At least reduce the number of errors greatly. And I don't think they're really adding a lot of features this time . It's all about stabilizing the system. A step in the VERY right direction, if you aks me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scj312 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 They already have plans to dump NT after 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 They already have plans to dump NT after 7. Really? I guess I won't be on the Mac side for too long then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loccy Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Too little, too late, guys. I recently got a new laptop with Vista, and despised it so much I grabbed a bootleg of OSX and turned my laptop into a Hackintosh. A few months on I gave up on the Hackintosh (even though it did work fairly well) and just bit the bullet and bought a Macbook. And I'm no Apple fanboy, either. I've worked in the IT industry for over a decade and traditionally had a healthy techie's loathing for Macs (especially pre-OSX, on OS 9 and earlier, back when the OS was the biggest pile of {censored}e ever). Since they've moved to a UNIX-like kernel they've been growing on me more and more, and with the release of the complete abortion that is Vista, it was enough to finally turn me over to the dark side. Perhaps if they'd been looking towards something like MinWin instead of the bloat and bollocks that is Vista, I'd still be on a Microsoft OS. But they didn't, and I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhai Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 It is obvious that the emphasis on virtualization means that they are preparing to offer something new in their basic architecture. MS don't want to be so tied to one specific arcithecture so they are able to switch and still have the big big corporations buy their stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassJAw Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I'm not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I'm glad their heading in the right direction but... Can't we move beyond Windows NT? I know... gosh... Why would anyone stick with something for so long just because it works. I mean a kernel base that is architecturally the same since Windows NT 4.0 that was released in 1996. That's 11 years!!! I mean yes they do gradual improvements to the operating system, and make it more productive and not to mention look better with every new release (ie. 2000 to Xp and Xp to Vista). Oh wait... Seems like Apple's Mac OS X will be doing the same thing. They released OS X in 1999. Today it still has the same kernel base ( 8 years later, 3 less than Windows) and have hinted that Mac OS X could possibly be Apple's primary OS for the next decade. Of course, there would be varies upgrades and updates, that are sited as new versions. These would of course make the system more productive and not to mention look better with every new release (ie. 10.0 to 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 and now onto 10.5). Do you see the symmetry? I do. IIWDFI If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdshft Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 The problem is that NT works, but not in the most streamlined and efficient manners that the UNIX-based OS X and Linux kernels are. There's a lot of bloat secondary code along with it, and that's why we need a new Windows kernel. Nextstep worked great for it's time (it too had a long run) and it was definitely time for a change then as well. 11 years is a long time, and like I said, while it does "work", it doesn't work as well as the alternatives, due to time and structure. Perhaps someday Microsoft will understand this, but I fear that it might be too late for them when they do. But hopefully by then Apple will have gained a lot of ground in the PC world and garnered up a decent amount of comparable software, or even better, have opened up their OS entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 lol no, microsoft has to DUMP the NT kernel. It's old, vulnerable, their OSes built on it SUCK, etc, etc, etc.Microsoft needs to get serious about their OS. People are sick and tired of it. And I'm not saying that they'll all switch to Macs, but Microsoft is leaving the turf wide open for competition. If they dump it, they will never be forgiven by the people who want to run older Windows apps on their new system. Thus, it supports legecy code and will continue to be a relatively easy target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Ingus Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 If they dump it, they will never be forgiven by the people who want to run older Windows apps on their new system. Thus, it supports legecy code and will continue to be a relatively easy target. Yep. MS should have started off with good code to begin with, then they wouldn't be in this mess. Now it's a catch-22 situation for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yep. MS should have started off with good code to begin with, then they wouldn't be in this mess. Now it's a catch-22 situation for them. AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAA That is one hell of a good Catch-22 situation. A majority of the market share in personal PC operating systems and that is not going to change for a while (no matter what linux and os x fanboys think), and that is using a "bloated, no good, {censored}" kernel. Backwards compatiable with the majority of software and on and on. I would love to be Bill Gates in this pickel... This week on the Dukes of Operating Systems, Bill Gates jumps the General Vista over the Unix based code and lands safely on a clould of Lily Flowers that are supported by the NT based kernel. Woooooohooooooo!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegodfaza Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I know... gosh... Why would anyone stick with something for so long just because it works. I mean a kernel base that is architecturally the same since Windows NT 4.0 that was released in 1996. That's 11 years!!! I mean yes they do gradual improvements to the operating system, and make it more productive and not to mention look better with every new release (ie. 2000 to Xp and Xp to Vista). Oh wait... Seems like Apple's Mac OS X will be doing the same thing. They released OS X in 1999. Today it still has the same kernel base ( 8 years later, 3 less than Windows) and have hinted that Mac OS X could possibly be Apple's primary OS for the next decade. Of course, there would be varies upgrades and updates, that are sited as new versions. These would of course make the system more productive and not to mention look better with every new release (ie. 10.0 to 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 and now onto 10.5). Do you see the symmetry? I do. IIWDFI If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit Thats a good point. People are criticizing MS for not kicking the NT kernel but Apple is doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts