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New Intel Macs: iMac, MacBook Pro

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wow that is incredible it started years ago when mac user said mac could not run on pc that it was impossible to emulate a mac core on a weak x86 then came along basilisk then mac user went "oh ok but you wont be able to emulate ppc" then came along sheepshaver and Pearpc then they went oh well the ppc G5 is way better then any X86 wich was then proven again wrong when compared to any top performer X86 aside from few instance then guess what after a year of been proven wrong they switch to X86 and now what well its starting again now it "My Pc is better then yours" look its quite simple the Macbook Pro is good as is tons of other Pc laptop and it asnt change {censored} as to the fact that some prefers Mac os and some prefer windows honnestly i like my window laptop and my huge not so stylish Desktop pc and it offers me all i need in a computer now i will probably get a copy of Mac os if it get cracked to try it out on a spare hdd but i dont think i will switch for that dont get me wrong again its just that i am so tired of earing people go "oh my my win is better then your mac etc, etc..."

 

 

that has to be the worst case of run-on sentence I have ever seen!

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Or should we just expect BIOS versions of 10.4 to continue to be released to developers for use on the transition kits?

 

Hmm.. this is interesting:

 

Apple

 

DTK Exchange Program

The DTK Exchange Program is for developers who have ordered a Developer Transition Kit. This program will put a new Intel-based Mac in your hands to help you finish and ship your Universal Binary. Each Developer Transition Kit you have may be exchanged for a new Intel-based iMac at no charge. We'll provide you with the iMac prior to your return of the DTK to allow you to move resources as necessary from the DTK to the iMac.

 

http://developer.apple.com/dtkexchange/

 

 

5. Will I own the iMac received via the DTK Exchange Program?

Yes. The Hardware Purchase Agreement Terms and Conditions apply to the iMac received via the DTK Exchange Program.

 

http://developer.apple.com/dtkexchange/faq.html

 

What are they going to do with hundreds of used DTK's? Just destroy them?

 

Save the cases and sell the other parts to some wholesaler?

 

...

 

It sounds like there may be no more BIOS'd OSx86 versions coming out of the pipe.

Edited by bofors

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Just thought I would weigh in on the big news today… not like it’s really surprising, but should I say now official.

 

Well personally I’m disappointed and confused. How does Jobs think he is going to grab more of the market by raising the prices? I’m speaking of the new MacBook, but I still think they could do better with the rest of the lineup. Consumers want bargains…period. They don’t care about the total cost of ownership, but rather the upfront costs. I think until Apple realizes this, they will continue to hold on to the percentage they have, but the overall growth that they want to achieve will not happen. Look at Microsoft, it’s costing them money every time the sell an Xbox, but they know once they get their product out there it’s going to make them tons of $$$$ in the long run.

 

Well no need to blab on about marketing, after all Jobs has been doing this and making money at it for some time now. Maybe his vision is there and it doesn’t make sense to me or anyone yet. Anyone care to speculate?

 

Now for the switch to Intel…I couldn’t be happier. Maybe this will simplify some of what is IMHO Apples need to over engineer their hardware. Fellow Apple Certified Techs know what I’m talking about or if you’ve ever taken an Apple apart. Part of the problem is trying to stuff all the hardware into such small spaces; other is just plain and simple over engineered. I look forward to dual booting Windows and Mac OSx86. Should also cut down on hardware I need to run my business. :dev:

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Hey, stop the hate! That Dell is a fine machine and it's faster than the Macbook pro in terms of CPU and GPU. And don't mischaracterize the screen, it's not the same resolution as the mac, the 17" has a resolution of 1920x1200.

 

The 1920x1200 screen is another 150 dollar upgrade.... the base model, the price that the "therunner" quoted was for a 17 at 1440x900... and, as i said before, 30% more weight...oh, and did i mention WINDOWS?

Edited by pants

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I am really disappointed that there is only one mouse button too!

 

That is absurd and enough for me not to buy Apple now that I can run OS X on someone else's laptop.

 

don't you guys get the second button on a powerbook or the new systems ?

 

you place 2 fingers side by side and pull down and up with them to scroll.. it is very natural and fast.

leave those 2 fingers ont eh track pad and click the button with the thumb of the same hand and thats a right click.

it is all done with one hand and as a PC user of 20 plus years i hate going back to a separate button as it is now so unnatural. I never have to look down at the trackpad or button like i have to on a 2 button pc notebook so i dont accidently get the wrong key.

it is way more natural and easy than it sounds..

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don't you guys get the second button on a powerbook or the new systems ?

 

you place 2 fingers side by side and pull down and up with them to scroll.. it is very natural and fast.

leave those 2 fingers ont eh track pad and click the button with the thumb of the same hand and thats a right click.

it is all done with one hand and as a PC user of 20 plus years i hate going back to a separate button as it is now so unnatural. I never have to look down at the trackpad or button like i have to on a 2 button pc notebook so i dont accidently get the wrong key.

it is way more natural and easy than it sounds..

I was raised to use two fingers :). Using 1 finger just isn't natural :thumbsup_anim:

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don't you guys get the second button on a powerbook or the new systems ?

 

you place 2 fingers side by side and pull down and up with them to scroll.. it is very natural and fast.

leave those 2 fingers ont eh track pad and click the button with the thumb of the same hand and thats a right click.

it is all done with one hand and as a PC user of 20 plus years i hate going back to a separate button as it is now so unnatural. I never have to look down at the trackpad or button like i have to on a 2 button pc notebook so i dont accidently get the wrong key.

it is way more natural and easy than it sounds..

 

just a question, if (and when) the MacBook runs Windows, would that trick work? Is the trackpad mechanism built into the hardware? or is it implemented through the driver?

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OK geek beefers, quit your cries of "I'm being ripped off!". Sure, I'd love to buy a screaming new apple laptop for $1600... but you forget :

 

First law of economics : Price is determined by supply and demand.

 

Small supply, big demand -> BIG price.

Large supply, small demand -> small price.

 

You can be 99.9% sure that for at least the first six months of this product's life there will be a waiting list of about a month to two weeks to get your hands on a MacBook. Think of all those Pro Powerbook owners who have just been given the opportunity for a 5 times faster speed bump. Actually, lets make that figure real world. Let's say only TWICE as fast. They will buy these machines. Especially Final Cut people. There'll be fights in the queues at Apple stores. People may die.

 

Imagine this person: Mid '30s female TV documentary producer, working for a Cable Channel. She wants a computer for office stuff, and rough DV editing. What will she buy? Can she afford an extra couple of hundred $ for a better computer. Remember MHz is not better. Prettier, less headache, and fun to use makes 'Better'. Will this woman buy an Opteron Alienware notebook, and install a cracked version of OSX? I somehow doubt it. Will she buy a Dell Inspiron and run Avid? Not if every time she surfs the web she gets 15 pop up windows telling her she's got spyware, and the application icons stop working regularly.

 

Apple's key to their success is that they've realised that 90% of the people who can find a use for a computer aren't interested in its technicalities. They don't want to be geeks. They just want the thing to do what they want it to with as little fuss as possible, and they're prepared to pay a premium not to have to fuss about it. These people vastly outnumber geeks. Apple isn't remotely worried about the hackers illegaly cracking OSX and running it on cheapo grey boxes at twice the speed of their production machines. These people are rare, and tend not to have much money. They're not a lucrative market. So this development is great for everybody. Geeks get OSX on whatever they want. Consumers get a computer that actually works properly, and is generally nice to them. We're all winners! :)

 

Do also bear in mind when judging these new prices that as far as the CPU is concerned, Intel's 65nm chips are about 3 times the price of a G5.

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I am really disappointed that there is only one mouse button too!

 

That is absurd and enough for me not to buy Apple now that I can run OS X on someone else's laptop.

 

If you say about the trackpad those laptops/notebooks with multiple buttons annoys me, never get used to it, but if you talk about mouse I prefer 2 button + wheel, back and forward and horizontal scroll better.

 

That's why I use wireless mouse when I use my Powerbook on a desk. I used a Wireless MS Intellimouse with the small USB receiver of the MS wireless notebook mouse but now a MS Bluetooth mouse is even easier no receiver to carry :)

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leave those 2 fingers ont eh track pad and click the button with the thumb of the same hand and thats a right click.

 

I was wondering about this, I guess I will have to give it a shot (I have not tried the new scroll-pad mechanism yet). The same hand part is critical, if I can right click with one hand, most of my complaint is solved.

 

Still, Apple could obviously use some of the Mighty Mouse technology on the laptop. I mean, just do it exactly the same way, one button with multiple sensors to do both right and left clicks. Likewise, and this is really less of an issue and also supposed to be solved with the two-fingered track pad, but I would like a scroll-ball too!. (But I have to admit that I have not even touched a Mighty Mouse yet, either).

Edited by bofors

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We can't forget the gamers out there. I would much prefer to use a well designed and precisioned device to get the crosshairs in the right place. Also the scrollers to change weapons. I personally wouldn't mind a mouse I can control with my mind. Damn, way OT and i've been up 22hrs.

 

Anyway, Apple marketing will never change. The only that did is the processor. Apple people will never change, but I'm hoping windows ppl will (business). I guess it's just fun to read people bickering about the good, the bad, and the annoying.

 

PS. if we had to use the right hand for the kb and the left hand for the mouse, what are we gonna use to hold our smokes with? oh, do any of you remember the 3 button serial mouse and with no scroller?

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There are other importants lacks in the Macbook.

Video-Out and Firewire 800 are some of the things they have abandoned which are actually needed. Not everyone have a DVI TFT TV to make a video show. And long DVI wires are very expensives to use them in my shows. Buying an adaptor it's a way but a good one starts at about 180 €. About Firewire 800. I don't understand. If they would fit a Fibre Channel port, or a S-ATA... Something to plug fast Disk drives arrays for Video Postproduction.

Another important thing. What about the promised 64 bits operating system? Seems that these new Macs will have a shorter up to date life. My g4 still works and it's 6 years old. Actually it has no sense buying a G5 which will became ancient in a near future with the probably lack of support for future applications, And probably using 32 bits processors are a step behind. I'll wait for the second revision, or i'll probably buy a very more cheaper PC to use during a short life session.

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Still, Apple could obviously use some of the Mighty Mouse technology on the laptop. I mean, just do it exactly the same way, one button with multiple sensors to do both right and left clicks. Likewise, and this is really less of an issue and also supposed to be solved with the two-fingered track pad, but I would like a scroll-ball too!. (But I have to admit that I have not even touched a Mighty Mouse yet, either).

 

You really ought to use the hardware you talk about, before talking about it. The new multi-finger scrolling trackpads allow you much of the same flexibility of the mighty mouse (vertical / horizontal scroll; two-finger scrolling, etc...)

 

There are other importants lacks in the Macbook.

Video-Out and Firewire 800 are some of the things they have abandoned which are actually needed. Not everyone have a DVI TFT TV to make a video show. And long DVI wires are very expensives to use them in my shows. Buying an adaptor it's a way but a good one starts at about 180 €.

 

Apple's adapters are $20, and they allow adapting the DVI port to VGA, RCA video, etc...

 

Another important thing. What about the promised 64 bits operating system? Seems that these new Macs will have a shorter up to date life.

 

What about it? It's called OS X 10.4.4 -- the new intel processors are all 64-bit, and os x 10.4 has added more 64-bit support with every additional revision. The problem is that many of the third party apps are not 64-bit ready (*cough* Photoshop *cough*)

 

DD

 

P.S. Yeah, I have no problem admitting that I was wrong on the intel systems -- and I am *VERY* happy to be proven wrong. Incredibly happy, even.

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Apple's adapters are $20, and they allow adapting the DVI port to VGA, RCA video, etc...

Those adapters don't work with any DVI port, because that adapter don't have any D/A converter, they're just very expensive crossover ports (a "normal" non apple one is about 5 € or less). The adapter works with the A/D, D/A converter inside the graphics card. I haven't seen any info about the outputs supported by the card so, we'll have to wait for the reviews.

Edited by yoyo

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What about it? It's called OS X 10.4.4 -- the new intel processors are all 64-bit, and os x 10.4 has added more 64-bit support with every additional revision. The problem is that many of the third party apps are not 64-bit ready (*cough* Photoshop *cough*)

The new processor is a 32 bits one. A 64 bits processor can acquire more efficiency with that Mac OS X 10.4.4 written for 32 and 64 bits, but Intel Core Duo is still 32 bits.

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Guest terry
Hmm.. this is interesting:

What are they going to do with hundreds of used DTK's? Just destroy them?

Sure.

 

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=5904#6

 

What else did you expect?

 

It sounds like there may be no more BIOS'd OSx86 versions coming out of the pipe.

Yep.

 

The new processor is a 32 bits one.

Exactly.

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dear folks,

 

does this means that we wont be able to install and run os x on our systems anymore ???

 

how severe is this efi thing ???

 

is there a work around ?

 

or is it totally useless now ???

 

:)

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just a question, if (and when) the MacBook runs Windows, would that trick work? Is the trackpad mechanism built into the hardware? or is it implemented through the driver?

The touchpad is manufactured by Synaptics, so I'm sure it works just fine.

 

There are other importants lacks in the Macbook.

Video-Out and Firewire 800 are some of the things they have abandoned which are actually needed. Not everyone have a DVI TFT TV to make a video show. And long DVI wires are very expensives to use them in my shows. Buying an adaptor it's a way but a good one starts at about 180 €. About Firewire 800. I don't understand. If they would fit a Fibre Channel port, or a S-ATA... Something to plug fast Disk drives arrays for Video Postproduction.

Another important thing. What about the promised 64 bits operating system? Seems that these new Macs will have a shorter up to date life. My g4 still works and it's 6 years old. Actually it has no sense buying a G5 which will became ancient in a near future with the probably lack of support for future applications, And probably using 32 bits processors are a step behind. I'll wait for the second revision, or i'll probably buy a very more cheaper PC to use during a short life session.

As long as it is a DVI-I out, I'm sure Apple will make a DVI to svideo adapter. They already sell a mini-DVi to svideo adapter for cheap.

 

I'm a bit disappointed about no FW800 or eSATA. But, I think they wanted to surprise people and get something out quickly. Perhaps one or both will show up in rev b.

 

The cheap PC thing is stupid. No one sells PCs that cost less, if you buy a name-brand one (as in IBM, Dell, HP) if you get the same parts. Apple doesn't cater to whitebox people or those who buy $399 dell crapboxes. Not arguing they are cheap, but everyone is complaining about the price, but they really aren't more than any other big name brand, and they are never going to be cheap (never have).

 

At least on the 64bit front, nothing is really 64bit other than the CPU itself in a G5. No GUI stuff can run in 64bit, things like Mathematica have to spawn a child process that runs in the background and is command-line to do 64bit at all. The current CPUs are temporary of course, we'll have Merom and Conroe later this year which address that part.

Edited by cyrana

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The touchpad is manufactured by Synaptics, so I'm sure it works just fine.

 

what I'm saying is, if you can use the two finger pressing the pad while clicking to achieve right click in OS X, can this also be done in Windows? I don't think touchpad for Windows laptops have this feature, and I'm pretty sure the scrolling mechanism is different. Is this built into the hardware? or are you going to need a special driver and software to enable these special features? Do touchpads on laptops typically use a generic driver?

 

I just checked Synaptics's website, and it seems as if they offer generic driver for their touchpads. The scrolling mechanism is different from the PowerBook and MacBook's mechanism though (scrolling by using the edge of the touchpad vs. two finger). For those who have a PC laptop, does the configuration software in your laptop allow you two configure features such as two finger scrolling and simulated right click?

Edited by INFNITE

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Is Apple using Intel chipsets in the new x86 Macs? Which ones?

 

Which Intel motherboards are closest to that being used in the Core Duo iMac?

Edited by bofors

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it'd be great if someone who will be attending MacWorld can load up and check the system profiler to see detailed info on system components

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Yes Myzar, I just look at that article again and notice that 945 was mentioned.

 

However, it is not clear to me what the difference from the 945 and 945 Express chipsets are (yet).

 

Anand says he was using a "Unnamed 945G Yonah Motherboard". WTF?

Edited by bofors

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