Dwight F Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?t...8&tstart=15 Hello 4GB! Glad I didn't order the 2GB factory upgrade. I just have to track down and price out the appropriate 2x2GB SODIMMs. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 Checked out a site I've gotten parts from in the past and that has a pretty good user/company support forum (albeit very Windows centric). Obviously more pricy per GB than the smaller SODIMMs but that isn't too bad. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku...ufacture=Others There are cheaper single 2GB SODIMM sticks but only by a few dollars (that's a Canadian site BTW, so prices are in CDN$). IMO the $20 difference on $300 isn't worth taking the risk of not getting a matched pair. Plus it looks like someone has even successfully used these in one of the new Santa Rosa MBP laptops (scroll down that page to the Forum Messages section). Looks like 4GB of RAM is going to sit on my upgrade list right below the 250GB HDD. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-427950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyhighmac Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 www.newegg.com You can definitely get a matched pair there. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-427992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....me=4GB+(2+x+2GB) Yeah and they have the same OCZ set there. A little cheaper than NCIX, even after currency conversion. But I'm in Canada and ordering those parts across the border is usually not a good scene. I haven't done a Canadian price check yet either to order elsewhere or get a price match from NCIX. Didn't think to bother till I'm ready to buy, which won't be till next month at the earliest. Just looking for a ballpark price. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synaesthesia Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 That's great news! It would seem it's still limited to 3gb in 32bit apps though. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 That's what I'm guessing, that's my post at the bottom of that thread. Maybe people that have run apps on a Pro box with >4GB can fill us in on that. But still, if OSX Tiger acts like 32-bit Windows, even with a single application running that memory above the 3GB mark is still at least partially used for things like the mobo integrated video and operating system activities. Plus with all the folks around here that also boot Linux and such it is very relavent. Even the new owners of InsanelyMac who are apparently using a couple of Mac Minis running unix in place of dedicated Cisco hardware at some sort of co-location setup. I forget the details and the link to the parent company, any admins able to cover for my aging memory? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
macppc Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 The 3GB limit is probably due to the chipset. The ASUS P5LD2 reports in bios that 768MB is appropriated. Many posts on the web discuss this. It is a limit of the Intel chip set (maybe other do the same). As such you can install 4GB and you get to use 3.25GB. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 The 3GB limit is probably due to the chipset. The ASUS P5LD2 reports in bios that 768MB is appropriated. Many posts on the web discuss this. It is a limit of the Intel chip set (maybe other do the same). As such you can install 4GB and you get to use 3.25GB. That issue with the "missing" memory in Windows has to do with the overlap of addresses for BIOS and for the DIMMs and is not an issue on 64-bit Windows as it isn't limited to stuffing everything into a 32-bit pointer. 32-bit OSes can get around that but only by being written to revert to the bad old days of not treating the memory as flat. Segments + Offsets = bad mojo. Also expansion cards, Nvidia cards being notorious for eating a huge chunk, will map into the 4GB space chewing up even more memory. It is not uncommon to see a maximum of only 2.8GB reported by 32-bit Windows. Shared memory video comes out of here too. P.S. That memory that is appropriated actually used as BIOS gets mirrored into RAM memory, leading to much faster BIOS calls. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyhighmac Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Leopad should be able to take 4gb in a mini, simce leopard is 64-bit Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 That is why my wild hunch is that there was a stealth upgrade to the EFI to support 4GB in anticipation of Leopard's release. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synaesthesia Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 But the actual applications would have to be 64-bit as well to support the full 4gb. Photoshop isn't going to be anytime soon. Not exactly a dealbreaker though... Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-428271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Ingus Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Leopard should be able to take 4gb in a mini, since leopard is 64-bit Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking THANK YOU for this thread! Keep us posted on this. Finding out that the new Minis are socketed was GREAT to see also. Maybe now we can piece together a Mini Pro version Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-429093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Well looks like a 3rd party is now selling the larger memory upgrades. http://eshop.macsales.com/Customized_Pages...i_intelmem.html They also claim that on the Mini you can't use past 3GB, although you see a small of speed increase because the matched set enables the dual-channel. About 3% on the memory intestive "Hog" test. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memor...rmance_testing/ I'm not sure exactly what would be imposing that limit. Definitely not the hardware, double checked Intel 945 northbridge just now, definitely 4GB. Also it isn't a trace implementation issue as the chips are being accessed in dual-channel mode (that's where they are talking about 128-bit wide). Apple is still gimping it somehow in the EFI to limit OSX's access? Of course that's still all with Tiger. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-429831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackt283 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Pretty damn sure any 945 can't handle more than 3.25 gb They say they can handle 4gb, but really it works out to be much less. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-429999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbetts Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I noticed that ram on apple.com is like x3 more exspensive than ram for apples on newegg....>_> Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-430006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Ingus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I noticed that ram on apple.com is like x3 more exspensive than ram for apples on newegg.. Yep, it's downright gouging :censored2: Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-430010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Pretty damn sure any 945 can't handle more than 3.25 gb They say they can handle 4gb, but really it works out to be much less. Only if your OS is incapable of addressing more than 4GB of memory space. If it can't, which happens when it is using 32-bit flat pointers, then other hardware in the machine runs over top of the memory space. For example x86 Vista will only recognize between 2.8GB and 3.2GB, depending on hardware. However on the same machine x64 Vista will recognize the 4GB. I suppose it is possible that they gimped the data path between the northbridge and the CPU to below Intel's reference (not sure if the addressing is parallel or serial on the FSB, I'd have to look that one up to be certain, I'm more familiar with AMD's architecture). But that would seem a very odd decision to put the effort into PCB redesign to remove capability rather than just use firmware to lower the capability. Especially since they seem to have used firmware anyway to set the previous RAM limit of 2GB. EDIT: Ok, checked it out and the FSB address lines are parallel so it is theoreticaly possible they might have gimped that. But the FSB addressing spec has been 36-bit for a number of chip generations. Yes, even though the CPUs were using 32-bit pointers Intel included access to paging logic in the addressing output to allow the processors to address up to 32GB. So even on the Core Solo there were pins that could be used to access the full 4GB RAM + the rest of the hardware hooked up to the chipset. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-430027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight F Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Looks like Apple has capped it at 3GB, less shared video memory. A guy in that thread I linked to over on Apple's board loaded x64 Vista with 2x2GB installed and Vista only reported 3039MB. Maybe it's something in the EFI that can be hacked. Some day I've got some time to burn I might look into seeing if I can pull up the EFI menu. I came across a hack someone used to get into the EFI menu on an iMac. Tricky part is that it used a file from the Intel site that they have stopped offering for d/l about a month back. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/60204-you-think-the-mac-mini-is-limited-to-2gb/#findComment-430054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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