newmac Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Hello everyone, I am new to this Mac Forum (best I've seen by far). I am also new to the MAC computer. I have been a Dell PC person all my life and my hobby is being a website developer/photographer/cinematographer etc. As I am beginning to learn about more advanced technologies, I am seeking to upgrade from my old Dell laptop to a Desktop PC (Dell Precision) or a MAC Pro. I have been learning about several types of software, I am particularly enamored of the new Adobe CS3 Master Collection. However, I also like some of Apple's offerings, in particular the Final Cut Studio 2, Logic Pro and Pro Tools by Digidesign. I would like a computer that can easily edit/render HD video for posting to websites/DVDs as well as one that can handle sophisticated sound tracks and music programs/PCI Express card space such as those associated with Pro Tools. I think I would like to purchase a MAC. However, I know nothing about these computers, only that, no matter who I ask they all love their MAC, ALL OF THEM! (This never happens with a PC.) Although my experience has never been bad with PCs, I have had the occasional crashes, hiccups and things that seem to haunt my computer from time to time even though I try to take the best of care with them. I also observe the fact that my local college that teaches (through its extended learning program) all of Adobe's software, teaches those softwares on Mac Pro's. A seemingly big plus for MAC Pros is that with the 64-bit Tiger OS and with Bootcamp I can run Windows XP SP2 or Tiger on the same computer. However, I would try to limit running Windows, except when I need to run Internet Explorer (some sites like Vista Print only allow online ordering using Internet Explorer for some of its online ordering features). As my job involves heavy use of Excel/Word/Powerpoint, I see Apple has me covered by offering a fully compatible MAC version of Office 2004, fantastic! The computer I am thinking of is below. I usually purchase and hold for 6-8 years. Although technology changes, I usually make equipment purchases that have always been able to see me through all software upgrades/new softwares over that time. I would appreciate comments on the Ram, do I need 16Gigs..my guess is yes if I am editing HD video and running Maya and Cinema 4D programs together. Although Dell Precision offers better video cards (more memory) and faster hard drives on my configuration with them...I guess I am willing to accept the two below. This configuration is as offered at Apple's online store. Unfortunately, I do not possess the knowledge to build my own MAC. Mac Pro Two 3.0Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon Processors 16GB Ram (667Mhz DDR2 Ram) 3TB 7,200 RPM Hard drive (actually 4 750Gig, 7,200 RPM drives organized as a RAID 0) Nvidia Quadro FX4500 512MB, Stereo 3d (2x dual link DVI) 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display (One monitor only) Two 16x Superdrives Quad-Channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express Card (what is this needed for?) AppleCare Protection Plan for Mac Pro (just in case) I have been reading many posts on this forum and noticed people complaining of MACs crashing with Adobe CS3 programs; most troubling. However, it seems most of these people were running on a "hackintosh". I will not be using such a system, just so it is known I will be waiting for Leopard to come out (October 2007 I am told) and then making my decision, PC or MAC at that time. So I don't know if these freeze-ups will apply to me. Also, I believe these people were running Beta versions of the various CS3 softwares, I avoid Beta versions the way nutritionists avoid trans fats. I would be purchasing the Adobe CS3 Master Collection (Apple license, not Windows) in August or thereafter when it comes out I would greatly appreciate any opinions on which system would be better for me. I apologize for the long post, but I have a lot of issues to work out here. Thank you for your time and responses, I will be committing them to memory, just so you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrimes80 Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 MacPro's have RAID??? News to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmac Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 MacPro's have RAID??? News to me... Sir, It says here, that they do. See under the section "Up to 3B of internal storage." I admit, as I am very new to MAC's, and do not know anything about building a computer, I could be misunderstanding something here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Core2UK Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 MacPro's have RAID??? News to me... Yes they do, they either have RAID0 (Striping) or RAID1 (Mirroring). I'd go for it because if you lose your data then it's backed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardFanning Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 You obviously do not understand RAID if you are telling him that he will not lose his data if one of his drives fails in RAID 0, RAID 0 is strictly for performance and offers no fault tolerance. If one drive fails in a RAID 0 configuration you loose all data. RAID 0 offers no redundancy, RAID 1, however does. As for the decision between computers, I can't possibly imagine you needing 16gb of ram, 4gb sure, 8gb maybe, but 16gb is just overdoing it unless you are doing very, very, very, intensive CGI animation, but for web design, and audio creation it just doesn't seem necessary. I'm biased in the Mac vs. PC arena because I haven't used Windows since Win2k came out, switched to linux then switched to Mac (best computer choice I've ever made). Dell is a fine company and I have usually been very impressed with how they build their upper level systems. However, the snag with Dell is windows. Go into almost any production studio (music, video, web, it doesn't matter) and you will see Macs, this is mainly because of the great software developed for Macs and catered directly for the professional world. I'm sure there are good programs for Windows, but nothing that can touch Final Cut Studio, or Logic Pro. It may take a week or two to get used to the Mac, hell I have a two button mouse because I hate the single button mice, but once you become comfortable you will never want to go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Core2UK Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 You obviously do not understand RAID if you are telling him that he will not lose his data if one of his drives fails in RAID 0, RAID 0 is strictly for performance and offers no fault tolerance. If one drive fails in a RAID 0 configuration you loose all data. RAID 0 offers no redundancy, RAID 1, however does/. Oops, forgot to say which one backs up data... You are right though, I've never seen an application that needs 16GB of memory. Unless you're multitasking to a major degree or running several rendering/compiling applications at once you'll never use it all. Final Cut Pro though does take a lot of memory up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyhighmac Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Most of the problems found on this forum and with people using hackintosh's. You don't need to worry about kernel panic because apple's kernel is designed specifically for their computers. You shouldn't have any crashes (total system failures, non-apple software could cause very rare problems.) Depending on what type of HD you are editing and how many streams (tracks). If you are going to use uncompressed hd, you definitely need 16GB. Hopefully with WWDC, comes and update to the video cards available in the mac pro. My guess is that the video card lineup will be refreshed with nvidia 8800 and 8600 cards. The CS3 suites would scream on your suggested config. The life of macs last longer on average (in terms of speed) than windows machines do. For example, putting Vista on a machine originally meant for 2000, you wouldn't even be able to install it, as with a mac, you could put OS X 10.4 on a Powermac G3 tower. You really need to look at what you want to do, but with what you want to do, your config plus CS3 master and final cut studio 2 would be a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmac Posted May 20, 2007 Author Share Posted May 20, 2007 Go into almost any production studio (music, video, web, it doesn't matter) and you will see Macs, this is mainly because of the great software developed for Macs and catered directly for the professional world. I'm sure there are good programs for Windows, but nothing that can touch Final Cut Studio, or Logic Pro. It may take a week or two to get used to the Mac, hell I have a two button mouse because I hate the single button mice, but once you become comfortable you will never want to go back. You bring up an interesting point. I have been studying Premiere Pro 2 and After Effects. The more I have done research into Apples/Mac's the more I hear about this amazing software. Is it really that much better than Premiere Pro 2/After Effects team? Is it better than Avid Xpress Pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Obrien Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 that mac pro you posted retails at what... about $18k? well dell has pretty bad customer support so i would go with a mac... plus its the only pro editing desktop system that can run osx and windows legally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmac Posted May 20, 2007 Author Share Posted May 20, 2007 that mac pro you posted retails at what... about $18k? About $15k....just a fantasy build, scaling back on the RAM (which I will do) and some other stuff will take off alot on pricing... Can anyone comment, if I had two screens (30-inch) would that mean more RAM would be needed, or would that be related solely to the capability/memory of the video card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFI Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 @ newmac. Hi mate, I would suggest you go to your local Apple store, and check out the Mac Pros in person. Its really hard to describe the speed of the machines unless your actually there. Also, I think that 16Gb of ram, is a bit overkill. Even 8Gb is kind of too much for CGI animation, so I find it very hard to find a valid reason to have 16Gb of RAM onboard. About these issues you are hearing about Adobe's Creative Suite 3 crashing...its a case thats common only with Hackintoshes. I have an actual Macbook Pro, with Creative Suite 3 Design Premium...and so far none of the apps crashed..and they run extremely fast as well. As for the video card, the QuadroFX4500 that Apple offers on the Mac Pro's is essentialy a GeForce 7800GTX, with some workstation features. This card is more than enough to fully and smoothly drive two 30 inch Cinema Displays. The higher resolution output on secondary displays is controlled by the video card. Although your main system memory plays some role in this process as well...the amount of video ram that you have on your GPU will determine to what resolution you can push dual/or more displays at. The Quad-Channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express Card that you ask about is used for setting/connecting the RAID0 setup directly to Apple's XServe servers through its SPF port. Personally I prefer Final Cut Pro over After Effects from Adobe. I find it is much more flexible, and also in a way more easier to get accustomed to, because of the streamlined interface with all of Apple's Pro apps. Again, like I said though, you might want to go to an Apple store and play with Mac Pro's before you make your final call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmac Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 The Quad-Channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express Card that you ask about is used for setting/connecting the RAID0 setup directly to Apple's XServe servers through its SPF port. Again, like I said though, you might want to go to an Apple store and play with Mac Pro's before you make your final call. EFI, Thank you very much for your input. From what I hear of Apple, it has awesome customer service so I think I will opt for 4gigs of memory, if I need more, my local Apple store is not far. I understand they can basically install whatever you want, no problem. I did go to the Apple store the other day...first time I went in one to check out the computers. The apple mouse was very odd...two button action with no buttons...weird. Can I ask you real quick, can you briefly explain connecting to Apple's Xserve via the Fibre Channel...why would I want or not want to do this? Again, thank you very much for your input, it is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyhighmac Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Xserve is just a huge external hard drive. Currently, you can buy an Xserve with up to 10.5TB of storage. You would want to buy an xserve if: a) You need a lot of storage space for tv shows and movies You need to store hours of uncompressed HD or DVCPRO (see here for storage times http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/performance.html) If you are looking for robust and huge (storage capacity) external unit, the xserve is good. 3TB of internal storage is a lot of space. Note: Xserve is very easily upgradeable, your can buy drive modules on apple's site. Other units are harder to upgrade (if possible). You need to evaluate your needs to see if your actually need an xserve. Also, some external hard drives (the real big ones) dont have utilities for the mac or drivers. Install is fairly easy, you just connect the xserve to your mac pro and i'm sure it comes with a utilities disc so you can configure an xserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyhighmac Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 If you can, you could probably build an external disk array for less, but you don't get all those fancy features of the Xserve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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