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Does this site now censor? Preventing freedom of thought?


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I just found some more information pointing the obvious answer of "YES"... there are some notable people in the community who have some very deafening evidence that Censorship is happening! - And for not justifiable cause!!!!

 

So this I guess will be my good-bye post. I will not take part in a community that censors the people - its bad enough that I live in one!

 

To the InsanelyMac Stewards - i hope your business does well... but since I am now a "Customer" of yours.... I just want you to know that we should be treated better. Business should never try to silence the people... its bad business!

 

 

Cheers!

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Michael-

 

Thanks for asking this question. It's an important one... I've been accused of it on other forums and I'd like to be able to respond.

 

The simple answer: No. We do not censor this site in any way other than is necessary for a forum to run - removing flamebait, off topic posts, etc.

 

The longer answer: There have been several incidents as of late where people feel they have been "censored," whatever that really means (I'd like for those who accuse me of censorship to tell me what they actually mean by that term, so we can talk about it more effectively). A brief overview:

 

NiceMac: We've always had a really lax policy regarding other sites. If you've got a site you want to share, we've allowed you to share it, even if it was meant to siphon off readers of this site. With NiceMac, however, Goodtime for a period of several weeks began doing nothing more than pushing his own site. Every post he made for weeks was little more than an effort to promote his site. Call this spam, off-topic, advertising - for a number of reasons it's against the rules and ethos of this site. When I talked with him about it, he said that he would continue to do it regardless. When I said that wasn't acceptable, he asked me to delete his account. Nothing sinister here, I assure you.

 

When a few of his friends from NiceMac began what was really a immature effort to see how far they could stretch the rules, they decided to post huge links to NiceMac in their sigs and banner graphics that said things like "your silenced" or something like that. First, it was poor grammar. Second, the banner ads were too big for the rules we set out for signature sizes. And finally, it was clear what they were doing - intentionally trying to upset me... which is also known as flamebaiting. So I asked them to remove them, and they did.

 

The sale: The second real claim of censorship comes from those who wanted to "join the discussion" about the sale. In each and everyone of those situations, a person had previously or was engaged in inflammatory attacks toward me and the site and had no real interest in discourse. A few examples...

 

Kal: Spammer. He wrote the posts giving the illusion of a list of charges against me, but they have absolutely no basis in fact. Read my post in reply to his to see what I mean. His account had been banned for other flaming he'd done when sHARD>> left (he really hated sHARD>> for some reason, and then me for keeping him on staff). He was always welcome to come back - just like anyone who has been banned is - as long as he could prove an interest in talking and not flamebaiting. He couldn't and wouldn't, so his posts were deleted... although you'll notice that I let two stay just so I could respond to them. If I was really interested in censorship, do you think I would have let those stick around... or even this thread?

 

aberracus: Got upset at me over the whole Bofors situation. At the time, I even asked him if we could talk via IM so that I could explain my position (not because he's a huge member of the community, but just because I wanted to help him understand... what I thought was a generous use of my time). We did, but he didn't understand my position and has remained upset at me. His posts regarding the sale were clearly meant to inflame public opinion and not contribute to anything. He was placed on Moderator preview (meaning that he could post as long as a Mod approved that he wasn't flaming)... I talked with him about a second chance... he got one and misused it so he went back on Mod preview.

 

Main point: You'll notice that there are a ton of posts on this site that both agree and disagree with me. We've never been about censorship here and, in general, have one of the most relaxed enforcement of what's "good speech" and "bad speech" of any major forum online. It doesn't take too long around here to realize that, outside of doing the things necessary to keep a forum running, we're as committed to the marketplace of ideas as anyone around. Our position has always been that ideas and discussion is welcome - spam, flaming, and anything else is not.

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I was just looking at Goodtime's last posts, and they all are about hatchery! I don't think talking about an awesome application that you made is spamming! So, he posted a few links to his website, try to find someone who doesn't have a link in their sige, whether it's free4me, links to their blogs or website, links to free apps, I don't see any difference between that, and posting about his site. He was probably very excited about, I know, because when I got a site, I was very excited. Look in the internet section of this forum, there are tons of people posting their forums and sites, and I don't see you banning them. What does separate them from Goodtime. And I don't see why you had to ban him, I mean Bofors still has an account, but Goodtime's has been DELETED, and what about moderator prohibition??

 

-allout

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And I don't see why you had to ban him, I mean Bofors still has an account, but Goodtime's has been DELETED
[goodtime] asked me to delete his account.
_______

 

I'd like to address a possible issue: there are many users, some developers, some helpers, who have now their own site/blog to which they link so that people may get more informations, as in guides, news, etc. I think this is a good idea, but from what I've read above this might be seen as "siphon[ing] off readers of this site".

 

So my question is: what is the limit that is/will be imposed on such linking? Will they be censored?

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I was just looking at Goodtime's last posts, and they all are about hatchery!

Yeah, that's because I deleted the 15 or 20 or so posts that were just spam for his site. If your site is good, people will come - there's no need to spam this contest or that contest... most of which never panned out anyway.

 

And I don't see why you had to ban him, I mean Bofors still has an account, but Goodtime's has been DELETED, and what about moderator prohibition??

You must not have read my earlier post. He was warned... then placed on moderator preview... and after specifically requesting that his account be deleted, I did so.

 

cbmkgd-

Good question. The standard is on a case by case basis. If you're a contributing member here and don't make a habit of promoting your site, then a few references here or there might be fine. But when it crosses over the line into advertising, we have to take action, since no one wants to visit a place where every post is an ad for someone's website. The staff is a pretty smart bunch of people, so we weigh all the evidence and judge accordingly. In the case of goodtime, he had made a "leaving" post, only to come back a month later and begin spamming his new site.

 

We make every effort to be fair in these things - talking to the users, giving them the chance to tell us their side of the story, etc.

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all these "i'm taking my ball and going home" threads are getting rather old.

 

 

you want freedom from censorship start your own website. that is true freedom.

 

it's just a matter of time till someone calls jessy jackson. :2cents:

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Just to make things clear about the nicemac issue:

 

No one asked me to remove the "insanelymac you are muted" a mod send me a pm asking for my reasons but he was not asking me to delete it,and he called me childish too...thanks aniway for the complement :2cents: .About the whole Nicemac thing , i think we have moved on from that ,and i say this even when my "apologize " post for being advertising nicemac where deleted so, and BTW i did felt a litle censored there but it was no biggie.

I dont mean to disscus about this again ,im just clearing some facts.

 

Greetings

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man, this censoring has gone on too long, there's a point where it just gets stupid

Tell that to the pow-lice. :police: I'm well behaved on IM but speak my mind on other forums as long as I can back myself up.

 

I'd love to be the censor though. I'm starting with you AllOutMacsToday for saying censorship is stupid! :o

 

You deserve this for speaking the truth! :pyth:

 

(kiddin') :hysterical:

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man, this censoring has gone on too long, there's a point where it just gets stupid

What do you mean? I've just shown you how nothing that you think is censoring is actually censoring.

 

Do you have some specific instances, specific charges?

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I have to add to this, as a lurker and one with considerable experience in managing online communication.

 

Years ago, when online chat first began, rules were set, and people who liked starting battles would push as far as they could do, taunting the people in charge to act against them. When they were acted against, they claimed it was some kind of harassment or personal issue, as they hadn't broken the rules.

 

The facts of the matter come down to this:

 

1. There's no First Amendment on privately owned and run systems (forums, chat, whatever).

2. The vast majority of people behave in a respectable manner. Those people who claim that they are being picked on are ALWAYS the instigators of trouble and are only complaining about the consequences of their actions.

3. If you don't like what's going on somewhere, you should leave, put it behind you and move on.

4. Starting and engaging in these kinds of battles with the owners/admins contributes in a very negative way to the atmosphere of any community. This is purely the selfish, attention-seeking behaviour of people with ego problems. There is no polite way to put this. People with an interest in the success and happiness of a community don't go about creating schisms.

 

IMHO, Swad is being unnecessarily kind to people who's interests are demonstrably purely selfish.

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alloutmacstoday, i have been here a long time, and i know what i have seen, nicemac is a piece of {censored}, its against forum rules to advertise it, and i 110% endorse the rules, also, swad, X-Man is goodtime so have a word with him. Sure if you peopel call censoring removing threads about warez then insanelymac censors, if its against the forum rules (which are completley reasonable) then its censored. there is nothing wrong with this. Sure some people may not agree with this, but thats the forum rules, and as members, we agreed to those rules. Now you might love nicemac because you have a guru badge (even thogh you dont know jack) but advertising it its wrong, insanelymac isnt here as a billboard where you can advertise your sites, and if you love hatchery so much, talk about in on nicemac, i for one dont need that as i actually know how to use dd

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But when it crosses over the line into advertising, we have to take action, since no one wants to visit a place where every post is an ad for someone's website.
Fair enough to me.

But of course, there might come a time when the new owners and/or you will have to describe where that "line not to be crossed" is (very probably a fuzzy one, as it often is).

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1. IMac isn't against NiceMac or any other websites. We don't filter out links, we don't delete any posts that mentions it. And "too long?" Keep in mind that we let goodtime, and everyone else, post all the links they wanted until they abused the privilege to do so.

 

2.

"so why do you still need to censor us"
What exactly do you mean by censorship here?
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just a quick question, what do you actually do on nicemac? also, you should remember goodtimes posts about nicemac, they where all just "join nicemac!!!!1!!111!"

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ok i agree we need our rights to say what we want but...I own my own forum too and can see where Swad is coming from. Its not as easy as everyone thinks especially with a site as big as this one. It might seem like some people are getting more censored than others or whatever it could be that they brought more attention to themselves than someone else in a different thread. As the admin you have to do whats right for the people of the forum, you might think its wrong but its really not, if someone is contributing worthless {censored} over and over what would be the purpose of having it cloud up the thread with the real answers. Theres so many topics i read that someone will say one word posts and i end up spending 8 hours finding one thing cause the threads are soo crazy with worthless posts. I'm not trying to bag anyone im just trying to let everyone relize that Admin is a real job and i know hes not making much money to do it probably just enough to keep the site maintenance up. Swad and other Mods have to do whats right the best they can to keep the thread progressing. I'm not sure if there is one here but my site has a {censored} thread where you can just chatter on and say whatever and have fun, instead of saying your comments in a thread where people really need the information from the thread and nothing else. I might not of contributed much here (that im allowed to talk about anymore at least) but i really feel as a family at insanelymac we need to come together and help keep this forum organized and respectable.

 

 

Vince

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This is in the past but here a few good examples:

 

nicemac Logo contest was removed. (This was an active thread, many IM users participated).

nicemac YouTube contest was removed (Contest is ongoing on NM), because of its removal, some users are making some bold statements about the filtering.

Goodtime's sigs and avatars were removed multiple times in a few days. Goodtime was put on Moderation Probation. Goodtime asked to leave on his own.

Guests cannot view any InsanelyMac Sigs.

 

Call it removal of spam, breaking the rules or whatever you want. I am sure others will disagree with this filtering.

 

My 2 cents.

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goodtime was using this site to exclusively advertise nicemac. his posts where just "join nicemac".i mainly use this site to get information about mac. he was using it to draw our attention away from here and onto there. swad blocked that site because people after goodtime where still advertizing that site.

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