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midnightvisitor

petition for apple to release unrestricted operating system

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most people like Windows

 

That is extremely difficult to prove. In fact most people I know detest Windows, especially the ones who have tried Vista.

If you say though that most people will use whatever OS comes with their computer, would never dream trying anything else, especially Macs which in Europe are twice as expensive as PCs, you sound more credible.

But tell them that there is a nice, free OS (Linux) or a hacked, pirated one (OS X) which will run on their existing computer without any extra cost, and you'll be amazed how many are willing to listen.

 

 

But it doesn't...if that were the case, Mercedes and BMW would not be the top (for the average user). And also would you say the quality of Microsoft's products are reflective of their market share( it could be a yes..but ill go with no)? You would think that they would want to make quality products in order to maintain their userbase...but thats seriously not the case. Yes, Apple has a very small userbase...but its the outcome and the end results that matter ultimately.

 

Well. let me try to explain something, once and forever.

There are two kinds of users:

1)Ordinary ones: they'll get a computer they can afford, maybe recommended by a shop assistant or by a friend or relative.

The *vast* majority of them is likely to buy a PC.

2)Geeks: the majority of them aren't just software geeks, but also hardware geeks. Try and convince them to buy something pretty standard as most Mac Intels at twice the price they would spend if they chose the parts and built it themselves.

The comparison with Mercedes and BMW is old and it doesn't work any longer. If you want to compare a computer with top car brands, you are looking at something self built or maybe like Alienware.

A good OS on itself doesn't justify selling computers at twice the price.

And besides most of us dual or multiple boot with Linux or Windows.

The old stereotype of a Mac user running OS X only on superior hardware doesn't work anymore.

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Well. let me try to explain something, once and forever.

There are two kinds of users:

1)Ordinary ones: they'll get a computer they can afford, maybe recommended by a shop assistant or by a friend or relative.

The *vast* majority of them is likely to buy a PC.

2)Geeks: the majority of them aren't just software geeks, but also hardware geeks. Try and convince them to buy something pretty standard as most Mac Intels at twice the price they would spend if they chose the parts and built it themselves.

The comparison with Mercedes and BMW is old and it doesn't work any longer. If you want to compare a computer with top car brands, you are looking at something self built or maybe like Alienware.

A good OS on itself doesn't justify selling computers at twice the price.

And besides most of us dual or multiple boot with Linux or Windows.

The old stereotype of a Mac user running OS X only on superior hardware doesn't work anymore.

 

I'm not saying OS X is perfect...nor Apple. But what I am trying to say is the quality of the end product that you receive, which is less with Windows. I too dualboot windows (XP)...and will openly admit that OS X sucks at gaming (even though it has "some" popular games). Windows has such a vast library of games that OS X cant compete with....but thats pretty much it, thats the only factor in which Windows shines that OS X does not.

 

Why do you say that the comparison between Mercedes and BMW is old and doesnt matter? Its the same niche market both the scenarios right? Its not like the majority is all of a sudden driving Benzs' and Beamers right? or that the price of both the car manufacturers have gone down to say that this statement is old and does not work any longer.

 

In regards to the price issue..most macs now are cheaper than Dells, when you configure them equally. This has already been proven with the MacPros, which are cheaper than Dells of equivalent hardware, so this theory that Macs are double the price is not true at all. No other laptop maker out there offer ambient light sensors for screen dimming, and keyboard backlighting, and definately not a motion sensor for disabling the hard-drive head to prevent data damage....and not many laptops out there have a 15" screen and is only 1" thin. The closest to that measurement are sony vaios...dells are the most far off out of all of them, and same with HP to some degree.

 

The operating system (OS X) is not worth "double the price" of the entire system because its not priced that way....but its definatelly worh more than a $499 Windows Vista, which does not even come close to performing as what hte price says it should. OS X has always been $130, while even the cheapes version of windows (which doesnt have Aero and all the other effects and even features) right now sells for $199. So how could you possibly be justifying the Windows's value over OS X's?

 

Excluding OS X 86, Mac Users never ran OS X on superior hardware, it was always above the industry medium..but not bleeding edge or anything like that. As far as I know, the only company that still weighs...looks, functionality, and price equally is Apple. All other manufacturers have one or the other higher or lower.

 

my 2 cents. <_>

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In regards to the price issue..most macs now are cheaper than Dells, when you configure them equally. This has already been proven with the MacPros, which are cheaper than Dells of equivalent hardware, so this theory that Macs are double the price is not true at all.

 

Not sure about Dell (I'd never buy one), but I can prove that I can build a Mac Pro equivalent for half the price (using a core 2 quad). That will be especially true once the Intel prices go down dramatically in quarter 3.

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HAHAHAHAHA If this pulled through it would be a corporate suicide.

 

 

Of course you can build a computer cheaper then a MacPro, but that is unfair to compare to Apple. You can build a computer cheaper then a Dell as well...

 

You have to compare 2 built systems from companies, not a DIY.

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Of course you can build a computer cheaper then a MacPro, but that is unfair to compare to Apple. You can build a computer cheaper then a Dell as well...

 

You have to compare 2 built systems from companies, not a DIY.

 

You are right: you can't compare. Computers built by companies are utter rubbish when compared to those built with every single component chosen for quality.

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You are right: you can't compare. Computers built by companies are utter rubbish when compared to those built with every single component chosen for quality.

 

Thats true. Thats exactly why I have a custom PC with XP just for gaming. It feels much better when you custom build your PC. There is a great satisfaction.

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Actually, most people could care less about their operating system. Most people are content with the way Xp works.

 

Anyway, give me a mid range desktop mac, with a DVD burner, 1 G of RAM, Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz, GMA 950, 19" Widescreen, and 320GB HDD for the $589 I paid for my gateway. When you do, I'll switch. Till then, don't profess a point that isn't true.

 

No mid tower, the cheap macs are basically overhyped laptops.

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Most people are content with the way Xp works.

Most people are ignorant of any other way of doing things. They're used to being terrified of viruses, frequent updates, and all the other things that come with XP.

 

I know a lot of you are power users, but I am not. (I'm an intermediate Windows and Mac user.) Most people I know are not even intermediate users. They just want to get on the Internet, play music, videos, do word processing, and perhaps make graphics and video projects. If they were persuaded to use a Mac over a PC, they'd be equally happy, if not more so.

 

I'd say that there are many (many many many) computer users who are at my skill level or lower. I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of computer users are at my skill level or lower.

 

One of my online friends was a longtime PC user, but was recently given an iMac as a gift. She was unimpressed at first and didn't think she'd need it. Until she started using it. Then she never wanted to go back. The amazing work she does in iMovie has made the iMac worth it to her.

 

Most of the people I know (again, these are NOT power users) are basically easily led when it comes to computers. They're easily cowed into choosing the same computer that their friends/relatives use. They're too afraid to branch out and try something new—they'll get all sorts of flak for it if they do. So they stick with XP, just because they have some tenuous grasp on how it works, and because all their friends use it. And because they know if they dare to switch to something else, they'll get grief for it.

 

I'm not saying that every XP user fits the above description. But oh my word. Many I come in contact with do. I was one of these people at one time. (Though I wasn't quite as timid as some of them.) I asked some more computer savvy friends about Macs—I got hyperbole and untruths, and basically a horrified, "OMG!!1! YOU CAN'T USE A MAC!!!1!" (Okay, not quite that extreme, but I got hyperbole and untruths.) I dared to try out a Mac anyway. I liked it. I got more flak.

 

Switching away from Windows is not that easy when there's a lot of peer pressure. That doesn't mean that people are all "content" with Windows XP. (Note that I'm not saying that XP is bad. I'm just saying that "content" isn't quite the right word for the kinds of people I'm talking about. "Resigned," "ignorant of the alternatives," or "not willing to fight the peer pressure" might be more accurate in some cases.)

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But tell them that there is a nice, free OS (Linux) or a hacked, pirated one (OS X) which will run on their existing computer without any extra cost, and you'll be amazed how many are willing to listen.

 

 

Um. Very few?

 

Users rarely want to switch. They have MANY reasons.

 

Family computers: They want to be able to use CD-Roms from magazines, play a few games, download the odd program, etc etc etc.

 

Office computers: Linux etc are free. Training people to USE them is expensive. Even similar software (Openoffice, formerly Sun Starofice) Are not identical and the smallest changes can confuse inexperienced users.

 

Kids Computers: Games.

 

Then there's support. Let me put it like this: Most of my University's TV station (Xtv) know that a Mac would be best for them to use. However, they get free parts and labour from the University for PC's - and the Technician that ofers them this will not touch Macs. And they do go wrong, especially in a place full of dodgy wiring and precariously placed props.

 

Track, you're being antisocial again, and this time careless to boot.

 

WINDOWS IS NOT CHEAPER. Retail boxed - Windows comes at a far higher price. Apple Computers can be had for small money - The Mac Mini for example, but people have to purcahse the peripherals. That in itself puts many people off. From Dell, PC world, you get everything for one price.

 

FreeBSD is far more secure than Windows, and reasonably more secure than Mac OS X. OpenBSD is essentially "Completely" secure from install. It's also bugger all use to anyone without at least 6 months of very heavy UNIX experience. Mac OS X happens to be the only UNIX currently available with Applications, Simplicity and Security in well balanced doses. Windows has {censored} security, Solaris has no applications and no typical UNIX/LINUX is easy to use. Some are moderately easy, such as Ubuntu and Gentoo - They're even getting close to full on simplicity, but technologically speaking, they're still a generation behind Vista, Sabayon, DreamLinux, MacOS.

 

On the note of comparison between manufacturers, and with DIY - To think that a Core 2 Quad is comparable with twin Xeons is ludicrous. They're not. Xeons are by far the better chip, otherwise they wouldn't bother selling them, certainly not at an increased price.

 

the 1.4GHZ Wintel Vs the 1.25 Mac Mini? Of course the mini will outstrip it! A 1.4 x86 is based on a very different design than a G4 and is years behind it, technologically speaking. a 1.25 G4 is comparable to a 2.5 or 2.6 ghz previous generation Single Core P4. Now that the Multicore Pentium-M based processors are everywhere, such as the new Xeons and Core 1/2 Duo chips there is no way to reasonably compare. We need to wait till the PA Semi Power Architecture chips are out to compare, and by then we'll almost be on the verge of the Megascale 50 and 80 core intel chips.

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Look at your posts, you're nothing short of a Mac fanboy either. I'm not a Windows fanboy, it's Mac fanboys like you that {censored} me off, saying Macs are suddenly going to make a revolution, and everyone will start using them. Get off your high horse, most people like Windows, as it's cheaper and familiar.

I know this has been said already but I can't help myself

130$<--------->200$+

Even the cheapest Vista, which is even arguably rightfully called Vista (no Aero for example), is more expensive than OS X. And I'm not even talking about the difference in potential between the two.

And familiarity? You do not need familiarity if you're working with OS X. Everything is just so bloody easy compared to everything else, that even the die-hard novices of computers in general, would feel right at home.

I mean, most of the time, one single file for an entire program. Bloody fantastic ^^ I've just recently bought a MacBook Pro, and the only time I use Win XP is through Parallels if I have to use Maple of Together Architect or so. I hardly ever boot Win XP natively on that MacBook anymore >_>

Though I am quite accustomed to Win XP, and I still like it, I like OS X far better :)

But I agree, most of Apple's computers are a tad to expensive. Instead of pushing them to release OS X (which would be nice though), it would make more sense to slash their prices down for 100-200€ or so. I do feel that 2000€ for a Macbook Pro is somewhat too expensive, 1800€ would be more on the mark. And that would probably make a lot more people convince to go Mac.

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No, the Macbook Pro is far more than 200 euros overpriced.

 

The issue here, is in comparing the Macbook Pro (esentially a gaming/multimedia notebook) with models from the common notebook manufacturers, e.g. -

 

Fujitsu(-Siemens),

Acer,

Hewlett Packard/Compaq,

Dell,

And multiple others, including MSI.

 

What do you notice? "Big jump" features like the big screen and advanced PCI-E GPU are considered standard features at the pricerange of the MacBook. The Macbook is a valuable product - the small form factor and "Apple" styling make it an essential product for th Apple Range. But it should be around £100 to £200 cheaper, and the MacBook Pro should be at the MacBook prices.

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well, you also have to consider things on the MBP such as a good resolution camera (compared to the mediocre average in the PC market)...ambient light sensors that enable automatic keyboard backlighting, and a motion sensor that detaches the HD head to prevent HD damage and data loss. And everything is under 1" thin. Its these little things that you have to take into consideration for the final price.

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I did read all through this thread today because I am close to buy a MacPro.

When I saw the statement that Apple should be twice as expensive than a Dell or HP I can tell you that you are definitely wrong.

A Dell and an Hp are both more expensive when you build the system exactly like the Apple and the huge difference is not just the price but also the software functions coming with a plain package.

 

Xeon Dual 2,66

4 GB DDR2/677

250GB

Care protection

Quadro FX4500

Dell: Windows Pro XP Only

 

No other features selected.

Apple around 5600€

Dell around 7400€

 

So what is with the factor "2" ?? Its all bollocks.

 

 

I am a Windows power user ever since and I'd never have thought that I might change one time but now the time has come. Vista is not like I thought it was going to be and the stability is more than {censored}.

I'll wait for Leopard and then I'll catch my copy of it.

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Haha, this was good for a laugh on an otherwise mundane day.

 

The Apple Product entry in the PC market is a specific construction of hardware and software. It's about scope. Apple doesn't make operating systems for PCs. The Mac "Solution" is both a hardware and software one.

 

So if you say "But I don't want OS X" the response is "Don't buy a Mac". There's nothing anticompetitive involved.

 

That's one of the problems with PCs... too much hardware. I'm pretty sure Linux could take off in an amazing direction if it didn't try to support every piece of hardware ever built.

 

Wait, that's what Apple did. Nevermind.

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I don't think apple's business practices are legit. I think the US gov't/court should make them release it.

 

Thanks for making me smile.

I needed someting to cheer me up, very sad right now.

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I did read all through this thread today because I am close to buy a MacPro.

When I saw the statement that Apple should be twice as expensive than a Dell or HP I can tell you that you are definitely wrong.

A Dell and an Hp are both more expensive when you build the system exactly like the Apple and the huge difference is not just the price but also the software functions coming with a plain package.

 

Xeon Dual 2,66

4 GB DDR2/677

250GB

Care protection

Quadro FX4500

Dell: Windows Pro XP Only

 

No other features selected.

Apple around 5600€

Dell around 7400€

 

I don't know where you found that price for a Dell configured as above.

But who needs a dual Xeon anyway?

 

Here I have another, very interesting configuration:

 

Alienware Area-51™ 7500 - SLI

 

Operating System: Genuine Windows® Vista Home Premium - English

Warranty: AlienCare 1-Year Free Phone 24/7 and Collect & Return

Chassis: Alienware® P2 Chassis - Saucer Silver

Chassis Upgrades: Alienware® AlienIce™ 3.0 Video Cooling - Astral Blue

Power Supply: Alienware® 1000 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply - EU Powercord

Motherboard: Alienware® Approved NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI Motherboard

Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz 8MB Cache 1066MHz FSB

Memory: 4GB DDR2 Performance SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 x 1024MB

Video Card: 768MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800 GTX

System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 250 GB Serial ATA 3 Gbit/s, 7,200 RPM with 8MB Cache

Optical Drive One: 18x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive

Sound Card: High-Definition 7.1 Performance Audio - Standard

Network Card: Integrated High Performance Intel Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (DSL-ready)

Floppy Drive: 1.44 MB Floppy Drive - Black

Monitor: (None)

Keyboard: Logitech® Deluxe Keyboard UK - Space Black

Mouse: Microsoft® Basic Optical Mouse Black

Security Software: Kaspersky Anti-Virus Personal Professional - 12 month subscription Included!

Alienware Extras: AlienWiring - Exclusive Internal Wire Management - £50 Value - FREE!

Alienware Extras: AlienInspection - Exclusive Integration and Inspection - £50 Value - FREE!

Alienware Extras: Alienware® T-Shirt - FREE!

Alienware Extras: Custom Alienware® fUnc Mousepad - FREE!

Alienware Extras: Exclusive AlienGUIse Theme Manager - FREE!

 

Price: £2,283.86=3,365.86 EUR

 

For a similar price I can also build a monster of a PC, and use an equivalent Quad Xeon if you prefer (and it'll be OS X compatible)

 

In any case a Mac Pro with a default configuration isn't priced too badly. But you'll need at least 4 GB RAM and a better video card, as you are well aware. RAM will be expensive and your choice of video cards will be very limited.

 

But I'll suggest you a much better instance. A MacBook Pro 17" costs in Italy Eur 2,799.00

A HP with very similar specs costs Eur 1,300, but I have seen it for Eur 1080, new from a shop.

 

Edit: for the sake of fairness I must say that the cost of RAM for the Mac Pro has come down.

So now Mr. Steve Jobs give me a mid-ranged NVIDIA card and I might consider buying a Mac Pro.

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I don't think apple's business practices are legit. I think the US gov't/court should make them release it.

:) it's comments like this that (almost) make up for your fanboy comments... I never seem to be able to make up my mind if you should be on my ignore list or not. :P

 

What do you guys think of starting a petition to send to apple to get them to release an operating system version that is not dependant upon apple hardware. :-)

 

perhaps if they saw the realization that i would love to run every pc i have on osx they wouldcinsider it???

 

of course, we all understand that the level of quality from apple hardware interaction cannot be guarenteed . . . however even the worst case scenario would be better than windows best .....

Anyway, back to topic... As much I would love to see Mac being supported on normal PC hardware I very much doubt it is going to happen... if it did I would totally be using it instead of Windows. But as it's not I love using Mac on my PC and Laptop as it's fun to play around with it, and hell... I enjoy the challenge of upgrading to the latest version of Mac and getting my hardware to work every time a new version of Mac comes out :P - that being said I also generally enjoy using Windows XP...

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A release of the Macintosh Operating System that can run on any hardware, and can support any application, has been in the works for the last ten years.

 

We are almost there, just be patient.

 

No one needs to send them a petition asking them to do what they have been doing for the past decade.

 

Shhhhhh....... I will all be over soon.

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No one needs to send them a petition asking them to do what they have been doing for the past decade.

But they aren't going to release it. They maintain different OS X platforms in case they need to switch (like when they went from PPC to Intel). That way they can do it as smoothly and as quickly as possible. I think the PPC to Intel switch was smoother than the 68k to PPC switch in the 90s.

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Guest Ramm

There are already several threads about this. In all of them, the original poster got third degree burns...

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haha so if we made a petition for windows not to suck it would actually happen?

if so, where do i start this petition?

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Actually, most people could care less about their operating system. Most people are content with the way Xp works.

 

Anyway, give me a mid range desktop mac, with a DVD burner, 1 G of RAM, Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz, GMA 950, 19" Widescreen, and 320GB HDD for the $589 I paid for my gateway. When you do, I'll switch. Till then, don't profess a point that isn't true.

 

No mid tower, the cheap macs are basically overhyped laptops.

 

 

I up wiht EFI and ever other mac or linux or windows user out there....^^^ this guy has no idea what he jsut said dose he?

 

I alwazs used ether dos 5.0 to windows vista.... xp and 98 for the logest time...... I hate linux its sucks and OSX is tight....

 

first off ever one cares about there os...... msot people that go into a store will care less aobut the hardware the then there os..many of times you can get a way with selling {censored} as long as you add ..Yes it can run this this and this... and the costermer wil lbe liek grate I buy one....

 

first of I not happy about XP. Format ever 6 monthes or so... some tiem 7 tiems a week...... vista better... 2000 didn;t run {censored} less so then vista... 98 didn;t understand how to use ram and the taskmgr sucked.... .Dos rulled... yep never had a issuse with dos ever.........

 

first of people don;t switch os becuz of "A" linux as a hole suchs ass and cna;t run {censored} on it "b" pc are cheap these days u can pic k them up at 499$ with preinstalled windows <forcued to us> or c) MacHardware way to exspince for the hardware under the plastic cover.... for me if I had the money I buy a PowerBook and boot camp it.....

 

but since i don;t have the money I settle for the NExt best thing and thats vista complaired to xp.......

 

I perosnly tired of formating losing ever thing and starting over atlest 43 times a year

 

and to all you mac fanboys there nothing diffrenct between mac hardware and pc hardware.... a stick of ram is a stick of ram. uselly made by the same complines with the same hardware specs .... Intil duo is intel duo.. no mater what pc or mac its installed in. and the lcd screen is a lcd screen that nice 8800 gtx card the same 8800 gtx card for pc....... I could never understand the price gouging from apple in over hardware for pc hardware...

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I have yet to see an online petition actually work. If I'm wrong, I'd like to see a link or reference to where an online petition actually did work. While it may make you feel good to sign an online petition, I feel that it's an exercise in futility.

Pretty much, it's the equivalent of going to the oil companies and saying "make gas cheaper PLEEEEASE"

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