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Semthex's Propaganda


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OSx86 Project sold-out - InsanelyMac sale, my 2 ct Written by Semthex Monday, 26 March 2007 10:57 Why do I and the other developer work on OSx86? Because we like the exploration of new things, possibilitys and finding solutions, because of the spirit of somthing called hacking. This is what we do. We all do it for free, for gaining wisdom and defeat challanges and lately to bring people to the ultiamte way in computing, OSX. I always refused to professional enviorments in any scene, to much profession make it business and worst if things aimed to make money come into play. But with the news item on insanelymac, which said it was for sale, I really got my belives I had prooven, named that this scene has gone partly to beeing profitable business a long time ago.

 

The auction text said 140$ a day (!) were made from the Ads on this site, this is like 50k $ a year. How many new projects, servers, opensource projects, incredible ideas and latly progress for the community could have been financed with this? How many things for the people could have been done? Insteed the connected projects even needed to bag for server donations. This whole sale has shown me up one thing, InsanelyMac long time lost it's spirit of hacking, it became a commecial business.

 

75k$ have been spent on this forum, why? Because a good income has been predicted from this site. This is what we became, a simple way for investment, for making money. I refuse this from the deepest corner of my heart. I get sick than thinking of this. This whole project is based upon the work of many people, i.e. Maxxuss, Vitaly, Netkas JaS, mine and yes, also on the work of Apple. You cannot sell this work, you cannot sell this project nor the community. To long big money has been made on the back of our work. I feel abused now, there is no other word for this. I want to erase this palce from my memorys, it has not more spirit than any random cracks site on the net.

 

The last point which makes me really angry is that userdata of +80.000 members like the auction stated are sold to someone unknown for pure profit, even worse this is a hacking project still. I am just sad, sad for me and my friends from the developers and well yes, also sad for Apple (on those back this all exist but who ever tolerate our work). I even wish sometimes never ever got to this project.

 

From this day I will no longer post anything on insanelymac anymore. I will go back to the place all began for me. With me will go the core of developers. Currently it's even possible for me and some others to leave this scene in general because all ideas we had have been dragged through dirt with all the things shown up, the spirit has been blown away. I really need to go deep inside me now and think about all the things happened and if I still can continue knowing the idea behind all this was abused in such a way for pure commecial intrest.

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Nah, I'll let this one stay - Kal, being the child he is, doesn't realize how silly he seems when he spams these things that, if they were important enough, people would read on their own. I'll respond to it later on today when I have more time, because it's simply not true.

 

But in the meantime, consider this: Why doesn't Semthex mention the thousands he's taken in from "donations?" And how, in an IRC channel for all to read, he claimed that he would stop doing his "development" work if he didn't get more money? And how just two weeks ago he wanted to be in control of this forum, and take a cut of the revenue, and threatened (and did) leave IRC if he didn't get his way?

 

It would seem there is a double standard at play here. Anyway, I've got a test to study for - I'll be back later today.

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Oho, 1k $ for development(macbook) or 1.4k per month for funny things,

Hmm, so it was wrong for me to use a referral program to get a MacBook (according to Kal's earlier thread) when I pay everyone back, but acceptable for semthex to take cash for one? And "funny things", like keeping the site running, allowing me to purchase an iMac (which allows me to be more productive than with just the MacBook), and pay sHARD>> and the other admins a little money for their time keeping the going? How is that funny? And you mean to tell me that all of his "donations" went to a computer?

 

I'm not saying I find anything wrong with what he's done - let's just be clear that I've done nothing he hasn't done.

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Ok here are my :(

I think to make money with such a thing isnt good. The developers of this project are doing it for "fun" and not for money...

So a donation is ok (not saying that semthex kind of wanting the donating is good), but the things like ads and so on are not so ok. Just because the user cant decide if he wants to "pay" or not!!

 

I think this whole thing could be done without money (yeah ok the host and the webspace and so on but 50k a year???)...

 

Hope you understand what I mean! Im not saying that you are a bad person, Swad!! Just wanted to say the profit isnt the most important thing in the world!

 

 

cYa ~Neo

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I guess to put my 2 cents in...

 

First off I think both sides have valid points in this. The bottom line is to keep a site like this up and running does cost money, that is why I personally had no problems donating. I think you need to draw the line though if the site is making more money then it needs. IMHO those extra funds should have been donated to the developers like JaS, Maxxus, and all the other guru's who have made the osX86 project what it is.

 

It would cause me a great amount of sadness for either side to simply walk away from this project. Swad and his team have done a great job of creating a wonderfully maintained site that allows for the free exchange of x86 information. On the other hand without JaS and his team of developers (and I don't mean to make it seem like 1 person is more important then another) there would be no x86 project to speak of.

 

I would be happy to put myself out there as a mediator if anyone would like my services. Also if the developers feel they can do better creating a site, I have plenty of server space I could offer. I would be happy to enter into an agreement where a team of the developers could audit the finances of the site however often they like. Any money made beyond the cost of running the site would be donated to JaS, Maxxus, and the other people working with them.

 

I just do not want to see what IMHO is one of the greatest computer projects I have seen over the last few years. Please guys, let's try to find some way to work this out.

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I know that I am in no way a big part of this community... honestly I think I have caused more problems than helped... but

 

I will only sell to a buyer who is willing to “carry the torch” and continue to serve InsanelyMac in a manner that we would want. I will not sell to anyone – regardless of money – who does not have the best interests of the community in mind.

 

I find this statement hard to accept. I am not apposed to some one making money at all, but to make a statement like this. I would think there would be some kickback to the other staff and Dev people that make this site possible. I don't know if the dev or staff are getting money but it does not seem like they are, from what I have seen.

 

Nah, I'll let this one stay - Kal, being the child he is

Your braking your own rules Swad. no personal attacks or do you not care because you have got what you wanted.

 

Anyway, this site has been great, but its the people and the help you get here that make it great, not the site itself.

 

 

Later all

 

Dice

 

P.S. I would hope Other and sHARD>> would get there far share as well.

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I've donated to this site, to the JaS fund, and to Semthex. I am still glad I made all three donations. I will continue to donate to, and support, people and sites that provide useful and interesting things to me. What they in turn choose to do with my donations and how they choose to direct their own futures is completely their own business.

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Edit: I'm letting this post stand as I wrote it - in the heat of anger at being spammed with things that weren't true. However, I say some things that aren't like me, and I apologize for that. Semthex is not a power hungry megalomaniac, but my points about the money still stand and all of the contents here are the truth. Truth, though, is only worth something when accompanied with tact, which I had very little of in this post. My apologies.

Ok. First, a little history with this post. Kal spent hours yesterday - literally hours - trying to spam this post on the forum. He's set up 12 accounts trying to push this post through... hardly the mark of someone interested in true discourse. The post came from Semthex's blog, and if it was important enough, he wouldn't need people like Kal to spam it, since people would find it on its own. And yes Dice, perhaps I shouldn't have called him a child; I have no idea what age he is, but these are certainly the actions of child. (BTW, I didn't really break my ad hom rule - ad hom attacks are when you say that can't believe someone because of who they are. Calling his actions childish is different, but I shouldn't have called him a name).

 

Dicenet-

I find this statement hard to accept. I am not apposed to some one making money at all, but to make a statement like this. I would think there would be some kickback to the other staff and Dev people that make this site possible. I don't know if the dev or staff are getting money but it does not seem like they are, from what I have seen.
You might find it hard to accept, but it's the truth. I didn't sell to the highest bidder (there were several private bids). Also, those who have been with this site since the beginning will get part of the money from the sale - you can be sure of that.

 

I'm sort of glad that Kal posted this so that I'd have a chance to respond (since Semthex doesn't allow comments on his blog). There is a lot of drama that goes on behind the scenes here, especially recently, between staff members and "devs," so I've been privy to a lot of conversations with Semthex involved. I try to make it a habit not to gossip about other people, and I certainly don't make a post every time someone makes me angry, but in a situation like this, when my character is being directly attacked by someone else, I feel it's necessary to let everyone know the entire story. So here goes.

1. There are "devs" and then there are "devs."

There are good devs, such as Maxxuss, and then there are power hungry devs like Semthex. In the early days of OSx86, none of us cared about money (and some of us still don't, but more on that later). The original hackers didn't get any money, the site was slowing getting enough money in the bank to keep itself afloat (I'm not sure why people don't realize that it's a good idea to have extra cash on hand for a website, to save for new servers or, God forbid, legal challenges that any public entity might face), and the world was happy. Maxxuss disappeared and others took his place, notably JaS and Semthex. Now JaS is a good guy - he's been here since the beginning and I've always had respect for him.

We all do it for free...
No - you, Semthex, don't.

 

Like most everyone here, I thought Semthex to be a pretty nice guy until the past month when I really got to know him. Semthex is not at all in the mold of JaS and Maxxuss. From the very beginning, he was not content to just be part of a team - he worked to be in control of that team. He was among the first developers to start taking money for his work - not a bad idea, since I think everyone should be paid for their work, but nevertheless he did. It should also be noted that on at least one occasion, he threatened to stop all "development" unless people gave him more money. These days, he thinks he speaks for anyone who has done any work on OSx86 at all. Semthex is king.

 

About a month ago, after sHARD>> left, Semthex got word that sHARD>> had been paid some money for his work keeping the site running. Semthex became quite outraged, telling everyone (including me) how unjust it was that he should make money for his work (are you beginning to see the hypocrisy here?). He also thought it was unjust that I, as the site owner, should be making money without distributing it amongst others.

 

First, how would I decide who to give the money to? To those who contributed the most lines of code? Should I split monthly profits among all forum members, simply because they make a post? Should I have a bank account $0 at the end of every month, with no savings? I wanted to tell Semthex that I'd start sharing revenue if he'd first split all the money he'd earned through donations with the other developers - I knew it would be a safe bet.

 

So, after positioning himself as a self-proclaimed leader of the "devs," Semthex sends me a list of demands that, if unmet, would result in his leading the devs to the promised land away from our IRC channels. Those demands included having access to the very same money he now claims is immoral. It would appear that this is the Semthex philosophy - when others make money it's a bad thing, but when I can make a buck it's fine!

 

2. I also find it funny that someone who wasn't around at the beginning of this site is such an expert on its origins and its purpose.

This whole project is based upon the work of many people, i.e. Maxxuss, Vitaly, Netkas JaS, mine and yes, also on the work of Apple. You cannot sell this work, you cannot sell this project nor the community.
The "project" he refers to is obviously his hacking effort. Yet how have I sold this? Have I printed any DVDs? Have I asked for any money in return for assistance? No - I started this website for people to talk about anything and everything they wanted. And they've come. I'm not selling a community - I'm selling a hosting package and domain names! A community is not the sum of the posts on a website - it's much more than that.

 

What Semthex obviously doesn't realize, perhaps because of what can only be called his Messiah Complex, is that people have come here before he came around. Has he contributed? Of course. But if Semthex were to leave, our community would still exist. He somehow thinks that by leaving he will get retribution by killing this site. The fact is that as a community, we're much bigger than any one member, including me.

 

3. His comments about the auction are laughable. It's obvious that he can't spell, but I thought he could read.

The auction text said 140$ a day (!) were made from the Ads on this site, this is like 50k $ a year.
That was on a good day, Semthex. If you'll read the rest of the auction you'd see that the daily revenues were more like 30-50 per day. Not 50k a year.
How many new projects, servers, opensource projects, incredible ideas and latly progress for the community could have been financed with this?
I would ask how many have been financed with this? You need only look around this forum to find new projects, open source projects, incredible ideas, and progress that have come from the money earned. Anyone been to the X Labs recently? Anyone use the Boris method for their graphics card? All of those would have been confined to a very small group if this community didn't exist to share information. I won't - and I haven't - taken the credit for any of these things, but they're popular because they're accessible. That's what the money went toward. Did the extra give me an incentive to keep going when I didn't really want to? Yes. What's so wrong with that?
This is what we became, a simple way for investment, for making money.
Wrong. If I had wanted for everyone here to just become an investment, I would have sold your personal information to as many spam companies as I could find. I didn't. Why? Because the community was more important than the money. I got more offers, and much higher offers, than the 75k. I chose not to take them because I believed in the people who bid.

 

In the end, Semthex is upset because he doesn't have as much money and power as he thinks I have. He has no problem taking money himself, but it is immoral for others to do. He claims that this site has lost its purpose, and yet even though he has no idea what that purpose is, only a few weeks ago he wanted to be a Administrator here because he believed in the site so much.

 

You'll notice this is my first post about this and really, with the exception of my rebuttal to Kal, the only time I've ever had to share the "dirt" on other people that I try not to talk about. Yet Semthex has , on his website and IRC channel, continued a campaign against what he considers the "unjust" (read: not under his command) nature of this site. Something about not having standards. It's a good thing he's got standards - it's just too bad they only apply to him.

 

P.S. After thinking about it, I've decided that closing this thread doesn't do much - I want to be better than my accusers (who really aren't interested in discussion). I'll leave it open in the hopes that we can talk through things - I'm tired of having to respond to these character attacks (from a very select group of people)!

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We all know Swad normally is not in the custom of bring out dirt about anyone but it does seem if this is all true, it's some serious dirt. :thumbsup_anim:

To be angry when other committed staff members get a token of appreciation (which I’m sure we’ll all agree we want them to get) but to be more than happy when that token is floating in your direction is hypocrisy in the worse sense. And this is from someone who I don't even remember doing much.

 

Jas wrote a comment in Semthex's User Profile

Hey bro just wanted to say thanks for all your hard work.Without you I think this project would have died after 10.4.8

So thanks :)

While it's a nice comment to give to a friend, I honestly doubt with number of geniuses we have here that we honestly would not have got to 10.4.8 and beyond without him. That doesn't mean we don’t appreciate what he has done for the project but if it's true as Swad claims it is, then it seems popularity may have gone to his head.

 

I don't know exactly how much money Swad gets every month but one thing I’m sure of is a lot gets put back in the site. I mean just look at how it's changed from when it started. Look at how wonderfully the site is laid out (for us) and more importantly how it's maintained. We have Guru section, Genius Bar and God knows what else. And all this without even being bombarded with non-stop ads or being nagged about donating.

 

I'm not saying I've made up my mind as to the whole situation, far from it but at least in this case (Semthex's Propaganda), if what Swad says is try then it's easy to see which side to take. Ideally what we need at this point is someone to back someone up so we can try and reach an end to this.

 

PS:

It's obvious that he can't spell, but I thought he could read.
Love it :thumbsup_anim:
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I haven't followed this situation quite as closely as a few other people, but Swad, regardless of how select you believe this issue to be, they are still opinions coming from people that are a part of this community. These opinions, whether they are true or false, are also spreading around with other people learning from what has been happening, so in essence it is forming a community divide.

 

Instead of having an influx of forum posts and then replying back, highlighting with bold, italics etc, editing people's names and thread titles; why don't you just go and actually talk to them on the IRC, or on a Skype conference, or something that allows the whole situation to be cleared up in a way that is more appropriate.

In the end, conversing in this manner usually ends up being one-sided, especially if you have a few outspoken individuals going up against an admin.

There should exist a solution that would make both parties happy, otherwise it will just go in circles, with no real understanding met other than both sides hacking at each other with conviction.

 

Just my :thumbsup_anim:

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devilhood-

 

Good questions. Semthex and I did try to work out our differences (well actually, mostly differences between he and other members of the staff), but in the end he decided he'd rather own his own IRC network. Kal is quite obviously not willing to talk - he spams here and on IRC and the only thing he has to say in PMs are things I wouldn't repeat in a place my mother could see them.

 

I'd really like to work out our differences - the "community divide" began with Semthex's decision to leave he found out about sHARD>>'s stipend. If Kal, Semthex, or JaS would like to talk in person about this, I'd be happy to... I just haven't seen that desire yet. It seems like (so far, at least) they'd rather spam than discuss.

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Well, Kal did make it clear that he tried to initiate a conversation with you on the IRC earlier today. I do not know any specific details, but I gathered from his general comments that it did not go too well.

I never thought Kal's lengthy message on the front page 'InsanelyMac is for sale' thread was immature though, it seemed to show strong emotion.

That is a shame; but perhaps it would be better solved in a conference, including an equal amount of people on their side and on yours, as to allow the debate to actually come to some kind of proper resolution.

I'm surprised that from what you say, it seems as though they have no desire to talk in person, or maybe the issue is emotionally debilitating in a way that is preventing them from confronting you properly yet.

I think both sides just need to try and stay calm, because in this kind of environment it is extremely easy to antagonize someone.

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Well, Kal did make it clear that he tried to initiate a conversation with you on the IRC earlier today. I do not know any specific details, but I gathered from his general comments that it did not go too well.

I'll grab the logs and show you what he said when I get home. It wasn't "Hello, Swad, let's talk about things" it was "You're such an F****** hypocrite..." It got so bad I had to use the "ignore" function on him - something I've never done to anyone in my history of being on IRC. And you're right, it's easy to be antagonized - I got quite upset at him on IRC (and on the forum) and I've been trying my best (and sometimes failing) to keep calm. And BTW - what's immature is not what he posted (although all the baseless allegations were immature), but it's signing up for 15 different accounts instead of trying to work with someone.

 

That's immature.

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I've never used the ignore button either. hah.

It's disappointing to know that was how the conversation went Swad, obviously making it clear that Kal is having problems dealing with the situation on the whole.

I hope it eventually gets resolved, and I wish you good luck for your studies- I'm already in the middle of a one-year Audio Tech Masters degree, but not really enjoying it too much as it seems like a re-hash of a lot of the modules I did in my previous Batchelor of Arts course.

Suppose it will look good on the CV though :)

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OK, here's how Kal started the "discussion" that he claims we had earlier. It was during his attempt to register his 10+ nicks. At this point, I was pretty upset that all I could do for 30 minutes was deal with his spam posts (until I remembered how to block his IP)...

 

[08:31am] Kal: you are a f****** hypocrite and that proves it

[08:31am] Kal: pot, meet kettle

 

Can't you just feel the compassion, the warmth, the desire for consensus? :thumbsup_anim:

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Swad,

 

I think you should have entered into a contract allowing a small amount of money for daily expenses and explicitly stating giving the rest of your, and future, earnings to some respected charity.

 

Now that would have been a show-stopper for all discussion about believing in earning money for charity/community work, what keeping a community alive is actually about.

 

Cat_7

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cat_7 -

 

I appreciate that sentiment, and you can be sure that 10% will be going to a local charity here in town for relief work (I believe strongly in the principle of tithe). I've taken several relief trips in the past to Africa and South America and also plan to use some of the money I've earned from this sale to take a trip to Brazil this summer. So some of it will be going to charity, I assure you. Some of it will also be going to staff members and forum members who have helped make this site what it is.

 

Yet I still maintain that there is nothing wrong with earning money from the work I've put into this site. I respect your position cat_7, but I respectfully disagree about earning money. I've always made it clear to everyone who asked that, although most of the money the site earned was going to be saved in case we ever needed it (for servers, for legal fees since we are a public institution, etc), I would take some of it for myself. I've always been honest about that and continue to be.

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Hmm,

 

this is really a bad thing to the whole community. I mean, ok Swad, you did the job,

keeping this site up, you started the thing here etc. and technically it belongs to you.

 

But what made the site worth to what it actually is, is the content. And that means we

the users, and of course the work produced by the developers. People come here to

check out the news about this work, let it be a live DVD or a fix, a post install or

whatever.

 

I can only appeal to your understanding of karma :thumbsup_anim: Maybe it would be a good idea,

to invest in this community by giving something back. Maybe make a donation fond.

 

Whatever, I hope that now, that it seems to be all about money, it won't kill the

community.

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xtraa-

 

Please see the above - I will be giving back to the community, to those people who all of us have come to admire for their help. :thumbsup_anim:

 

And please, everyone, note that this has never been "all about money." Does Semthex think it has been? Yeah. But all of you who have been around this site know better. I've said it before, but if it was all about money do you think we'd have as few ads as we do? That I would have worried about who was bidding and if they'd take care of the community? No - those aren't the marks of something that's "all about money." It's community first, money second - that's how it's always been and will be.

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xtraa-

 

Please see the above - I will be giving back to the community, to those people who all of us have come to admire for their help. ;)

 

And please, everyone, note that this has never been "all about money." Does Semthex think it has been? Yeah. But all of you who have been around this site know better. I've said it before, but if it was all about money do you think we'd have as few ads as we do? That I would have worried about who was bidding and if they'd take care of the community? No - those aren't the marks of something that's "all about money." It's community first, money second - that's how it's always been and will be.

Good post :)

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i assume that swad has payed his fare share of $ to this community. swad has always been there for the community, and so what if he has made a little money off the website? what does it matter. this website never was about making money and hopefully never will be.

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