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Stores selling Zunes early + Zune Software preview


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As reported by Engadget:


the original blog:



Just for curiosity, I downloaded the Zune installer, and it installed fine in parallels:



Looks like basically WMP 11 with a new skin.

The Zune Marketplace is already live and once registered you can go browse the music and listen to previews.

The search is live unlike iTunes since the index is downloaded and search is performed locally. Plus you can queue up the 30 second previews in your playlist. The selection of music is lacking compare to ITMS, and the program crashes frequently (three times so far, and I just installed it today).

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I dont know, I just am not getting good vibes from it. I know Im not buying a Zune ever since I already have iTunes with all my music and I dont trust Microsoft with my personal info, actually I dont trust Apple either that much, but oh well :blink:.


The left sidebar reminds me a lot of iTunes and I have no idea if their searching is better, but I guess I would need to really look at the differences before judgement is past. The 30 second preview queue seems interesting, but im sure iTunes does it via the shopping cart as you can play the previews from your cart as well.


Oh well Im sure there will be those who will trash the iPod for a Zune, good luck to them :-/.

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I have an ipod nano myself but never buy any thing from ITMS, nor do I plan to spent money on DRM-fied media. I don't see Zune as attractive to the OS X crowd, at least in its current form. As I said, the music selections are limited, especially so for not-so-popular genres like classical soundtrack (imagine just one album for Handel?). Although the search is fast in the way that it's local and live, it also gets slow sometimes because the computation are done locally not on the server, takes sometime to fill out all the album art once the results are in.


Despite all that, I think there are some good points that Apple can learn from, the marketplace is really easy to browse because of the local index, and it seems more like just part of your music library (more so than iTunes, although ITMS looks similar to your library in iTunes), you can just go browse through and look for what you like, which is slower or harder in ITMS.:



There are some interface quirks, like that shuffle button that is sitting on its side? and the 5 pixel high scroll bar handle, how am I suppose to scroll like that?

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Again, the whole Zune things is a rip off, like Vista. I wonder, does Zune software have an OSX version? I doubt it....

Please explain how either the Zune or Vista is a 'rip off.'


The zune software looks a whole lot like iTunes except worse.

Right, it's not like that the foundation look has been around for how long in WMP ? Guess what, Amarok, rythmbox and a ton of other music apps look similar.


I have some amazing news for you, most calendar apps look somewhat similar.

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Zune is built like the iPod, had a scroll wheel like the iPod, connection port on the bottom, hold button and headphone jacks on the top. In pictures of them side by side, if the screens were turned the same way, they would like very similiar.


On Vista, I have posted that in the Windows discussion but be real, this is just MS attempt to steal some thunder from Apple and they might steal SOME, but it will fade.

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I dislike Zune because from what I've read about it, it will delete a song from itself after three plays.

I'm not sure if it actually deletes the song, but it wont play songs shared wirelessly more than 3 times/3days, of course your own music shouldn't be affected, so the WiFi is close to useless right now.


robotskip: I wouldn't use the label "rip-off", but you got to admit in some ways Microsoft is trying hard to mimic Apple's design. That half of the mp3 player on the market has similar design as iPod does not discount the fact that Zune is designed similar to iPod, and more than they would like to admit, they all take some inspiration from iPod. And why does microsoft made the 4-direction button look like a scroll wheel when it's not one? Just take a look at the popular Sansa e200 that is competing with Nano.


p.s. and personal attacks doesn't help you make your point.

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Timyang got the point: If Microsoft wanted to be "all original" then why make the buttons like a scroll wheel? Why design the f'ing thing to be something that is over 90% like an iPod? Cause they have nothing else to put out there and they HOPE then when somebody passes by in Walmart, Bestbuy, Target, Circuit City etc. the Zune catches their eye because it looks like the iPod. There are MANY Mp3 players out there, that look different from the iPod, I know I see them in stores so your "described half the MP3 players on the market. " is a mute point.


Plain and simple, if you can't see the Zune an iPod want to be, using the iPods looks and success to TRY and make a name for itself, then you just are in denial.


On Vista, well you must also be a MS fanboy, seeing you see no reason to steal thunder from Apple? Do you live under a rock? Don't you see the ads? Haven't you watched Apple's evolution on the Intel chips? MS is threatened and when they are, they always go after somebody and copy their stuff. If you can't look at OSX and Vista and the knock offs, again you are in denial.

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So, my second post was deleted, why ?



The Xbox controller is similar to the PS1/2 one. Shock ! Do you see what I'm getting at ?


It's not a 'mute' (Moot ?) point simply because you saw the other half.


I've never said nor implied that the Zune is completely original and totally different from the iPod though I have said that some of your claims are ridiculous. For example, take note of my comment about calendar/music apps though that post was deleted.


Also, have you noticed the branding, advertising, etc for the Zune ? It's a pretty damn different direction to the iPod.



Why must I be labelled as a fanboy if I have a clue ?


'Evolution on the Intel chips' - If switching CPUs is an 'evolution' we have been evolving quite fast and constantly.


I haven't attempted to disprove whether Vista is a copy of OSX though I have asked you to explain how it is and you have not. So, 'again' I am not in denial and 'again' you have failed. Also, if anyone is in denial it's yourself about the impact [a new version of] Windows has, it has the power to slow PC sales, create thousands of jobs, etc. What happens when Apple announces a new OS or an update ? A few fans get excited and did Tiger even receive that much press ? Hell, the only hype I've seen for Leopard is on sensationalist sites and not much elsewhere.


Afraid ? What is Microsoft afraid of, Leopard ? Please, why would they be afraid of that when Tiger (And previous versions) had hype which simply dwindled down and when it's on a closed system ?


Oh, speaking of being afraid, have you noticed Apple's insulting of competitors and downplaying their products/services for the past 15 years ?

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I have no idea what happened to your post, but I think yes sandmanfvrga is taking a bit too one-sided view of this whole thing. Copy is not a bad thing when done properly. And as for game console controller go, what about the wiimote? I'm not saying every thing Microsoft did must be different or they don't have innovation, if the design is good, why not use them. Look at what happened when they want something flashy like expose for vista but decided to "innovate"? We got this useless 3d flip view. The only issue I'm making is when they try too hard to mimic Apple to woo the customers, the whole thing feels a bit me-too-ish.


Mind you, I'm against all kinds of labeling of fanboy.

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I simply asked him why said things were 'rip offs' because saying that is just a stupid thing to say and is quite frankly, asking for it.


Flip 3D being 'useless' is purely subjective. Also, how are they trying to mimic Apple ?


I'm against it too.

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Flip 3D is less useful than the original Alt-Tab, since the windows are partially blocked, and much less useful than expose, since it require you to tab several times to get to the window you need.


Mimic Apple? What about a close music store system, with its own software (instead of just using WMP), the design similarity between Zune and iPod? and "Hello from Seattle", (I thought they are in Redmond?), the directional button that looked like a scroll wheel? I'm only talk about Zune here, not mention Vista.

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With Flip 3D as opposed to Alt-Tab you get a visual preview instead of just an icon with some text and there are other 'good' points about it.


They've had integration with music stores in WMP for awhile and they've had the Marketplace system going for awhile on the Xbox.


The only thing which really warrants a 'copy' comment is the circle look other than that, it's different enough.


How is Vista trying to mimic Apple ?



So, is Apple trying to mimic Microsoft with iTV, etc ?



The point is, both sides 'copy' (Not really..) each other and no one here is yet to present some good points as to how Microsoft is trying to mimic Apple.

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Yes there are some good points, but flip3D is like a major show-piece for vista, like expose on OS X that make people go wow, but sadly it isn't as functional as expose.


You are saying there's a Xbox music store? Isn't this for music? WMP was the play-for-sure(maybe) platform that they abandoned.


Yes the circle look, some reviewed also commented that they tried to use it as a scroll wheel by habit. And why not put markings on it to indicate that it is actually a 4-way pad? So people will think it can scroll just like iPod?


I never said Apple didn't copy from Microsoft, just take a look at the album view in iTunes 7? And Vista? You are saying all these eye-candy animations and flashy transparency in Aero isn't taking a shot at Apple's Aqua? What about the simplified naming trend for bundled apps? Windows Mail vs. Outlook Express? and Gadgets/Sidebar? etc.


Yes, Apple is trying to roll their own media centre solution, we'll have to wait and see what they come up with.


It's true both sides copy each other, and I don't have a problem with that, why should you? It's a good thing that they are trying to compete with each other. I do have to say Apple was going a bit too much with their "Redmond Start your Photocopier" theme in their marketing recently.

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I might be one sided but I have an opinion and I DO NOT HAVE TO CHANGE IT! Get over it and move on! Good God in heaven. I don't like the Zune. It is a rip off, I have used rip offs from creative before and I PERSONALLY hated them, they weren't the quality of the iPod. So get over it again, my opinion is not changing.


Why was you post deleted? I reported you. Before you come back and flame me (which you will be reported again) this is the way to handle people like you robotskip. I don't mind heated discussions, but I am 29 and I have a family and a job; I don't have time to mess with certain people on the net that like to bash and personally attack me. I just let the mods/admins here deal with it and it has worked in the past. Call me a pansy if you want, but I can type for a month and it won't stop attacks and insults from those like you, only the bosses of a forum can do that. So next time, grow up, stop attacking others, and act mature in conversations.

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Flip 3D has barely been hyped at all for Vista so it's not a big 'Ha ! Look what we have' as you're trying to make it out to be.


No, I'm saying they've had a type of 'online store' for some time now and they are indeed not copying Apple. Also, Apple wasn't the first to have an online store [for music].


Like I said, this may be the only 'valid' (I use that word loosely) point you have, even than I could go on about how it may simply be a visual choice, etc.


I never said you didn't say that, I'm simply pointing out how silly, lame and biased some of the comments presented here are. And no, those things aren't a 'shot' at Aqua, it's just the general advancement of the GUI. It's happening on other OS too, you know.


I do not have a problem with either of them 'copying' (Please stop saying this and 'rip off,' please) and I haven't said nor/implied that I do, though I do 'have a problem' with people throwing around inaccurate things and FUD.




Where have I said you have to change your opinion ? Also, many things you said aren't really a matter of opinion, for example, you stating that the Zune and Vista are 'rip offs' with little basis or no basis (How is Vista a rip off ? You're yet to answer me).


Also, how liberally you throw around 'rip off' in relation to Creative players is quite amusing, and depressing at the same time. Is everything which isn't an iPod, a rip off of an iPod ?


That video / review was positive and doesn't at all seem in line with your comments about the Zune ? Also, you might want to have more backing than a single source. The really amusing thing is how that video is suppose to represent your thoughts about how the initial release "isn't so awesome" yet that review says "The Zune is a very good start" which is contrary to what you're saying.. what's the go ?


I haven't attempted to insult or attack you and you would have realised this if you didn't have this strange inherent want for that to be the case.


I've asked you why certain things are a rip off and in most cases you have failed to present reasons, or the ones you have are baseless or something else, otherwise you go on about how I'm trying to make you change your opinion. Should I report you for putting words in my mouth ?


Flame, who's flaming ? I've continued this discussion ('Heated' ? I laugh ..) but you're trying to make it out as if it is indeed some 'flame war' but it's nothing of the sort.


My previous post was reported for what, insults ? Were there any ? Maybe I forgot them, but what where the [apparent] attacks, insults, and personal attacks ?


Also, you implied I wasn't acting mature ? I believe I've been more mature in comparison to others but for fun, how have I been immature ? Oh, the irony is killing me, too.



Yet again, how is Vista a rip off of Mac OS ? Or, if you care to try again with decent reasons, the Zune.

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So you mean my points are inaccurate? How?

Flip3D is not hyped as much as expose, but is prominently featured on Vista's product page, and many beta screenshots are showing off that feature (why?). You got to question the motive for putting a less useful but flashy feature when they already improved much upon the alt-tab. And this is just part of all the eye-candies in Vista. If you still insist that Vista didn't learn much from OS X (ok, let's not say copy), I won't try to convince you any more.


Zune's Marketplace is different from their previous efforts (play-for-sure), the music only works on Zune, it's a closed system just like iTunes+iPod. Even if the pseudo-scroll wheel is the only thing (of course it's a visual choice), it is indicative of Microsoft's motive, like many other mp3 player that have a scrollwheel or control buttons that resembles one.


I think this discussion is getting no where, so we agree to disagree?

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So, you're going to basically completely ignore everything I say and repeat yourself ? I assume by your lack of comments and the constant 'move on' you don't really have any valid arguments so I will indeed move on, as you're a waste of time. Hell, a brick wall could've presented a better argument than you.


By the news I assume you mean a single story based on anecdotal evidence ? Well, if you check the comments there is more anecdotal evidence from the other side saying how several stores where sold out.


That story was based on what, 3 stores ? I fail to see how that somehow represents all of America.


Lack of features and poor performance ? The Zune has what, more features than the iPod ? Also, there are no performance issues. Oh, and once again I'll throw out the warning of not basing your thoughts about a product based on a single review, and especially so when that review doesn't even agree with what you're saying.


It seems like you do mind heated discussions as you have failed to address basically everything I said, most notably about how Vista is a rip off, answers to my questions about my former post and how you say that review indicates the Zune is off to a bad start though it says it is.


I need to get therapy ? Speaking of personal attacks though it's worse because you can't even address the things I say. So, where is this magical report button ?




For the most part, yes, what you're saying is inaccurate. It's not featured any more than any other features and Microsoft doesn't really release beta screenshots so those are from outside sources. I have shown how it is useful (Though that is still subjective) and they've done testing and shown that it does increase productivity, I believe there's a whitepaper which can be found on Jensen Harris' blog. I haven't said that they didn't get any ideas or inspiration from OS X, I'm simply saying it's not a copy or anything which some of you are saying it is.


The discussion is going nowhere because neither of you are able to present anything indicative or counter basically any of my points. So sure, I'm all for discontinuing it because if I'm going to be in some sort of debate/conversation I like it to somewhat progress and not be repeating, so I'm out.

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Alright time to back up sandmanfvrga a 'lil bit here.


You guys need to lay off.


First of all, IMO, trying and trying to convince him is pointless and childish, get over it. *gasp* someone has a different opinion OMG flame war!


Secondly, it is a bit arrogant to say that he hasn't proven his point and therefore imply that you are correct and he is not. If you are unable to blatantly see that Vista has ripped-off Leopard (whether they advertise it or not) or see that the Zune is a rip-off of the iPod (whether you LIKE the whole copying idea or not) then you may very well need to open your eyes a little wider. Microsoft is a competitor and yes, will copy ideas from Apple, both for the OS and the mp3 player. But this does not justify it nor does it make it alright. It's not personal, it's just business. But since we're using opinions here, WE are making it personal in this thread and WE are imposing our views onto the afformentioned business. If your views state that ripping-off is alright, that's fine. But jeeze just say it and be done with it. This is becoming like the religion wars: you have a belief and I have another. Move on, grow up. :)


Much love,



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This isn't about a difference of opinion, I tried to point that out above. Also, it's not a flame war, it's just a debate though it's quickly turning into a flame war because it's being labelled as that and some of you have this inherent belief that opinions are being attacked.


I've asked several times for reasons as to why Vista is a rip off of Leopard and I'm yet to be told besides some comment about how the 'eye candy' is a copy (Haha ..).


Also, none of you have provided a concrete as to why the Zune is a 'rip off' and stop presenting it as some sort of fact. Okay, your opinion is that it is, your loss.


If you're talking about opinions do you really expect it to be not 'personal' ? I do think being told I'm a fanboy and need therapy is going a bit beyond, though.


I said I'm willing to move on yet you make a reply saying to move on ? .. ? Also, it's quite.. lame (For the lack of a better word) to simply run off during a conversation, but hey, whatever your reason (Excuse ? :2cents:) is.


Also, lay off the 'grow up' comments, seriously.


For fun, since we're basing everything off a single source here is a CNet video report which talks to some people checking out the Zune at a Best Buy and they all seem to be interested and like it for further reasons and an employee since that it's actually being selling quite well compared to what sandmanfvrga has been saying.

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robotskip, if you won't admit that the eye candies are copied (mind you, not one-to-one copy) or at least mimicked, and you ignored gadgets/sidebar, then I give up. Plus, I'm not the person who said Vista is a rip-off of os x or that Zune is a rip-off of iPod, they are not, that doesn't mean they didn't borrow ideas from their respective competitors.


Or maybe you are not talking to me?


the best way to fed off personal attack is to ignore them completely, otherwise you are down to your attacker's level.


p.s.I guess at this point this thread need to be locked?

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