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Apple: Form vs. Function

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Ahem... even though this thread could go on for years about how bad Fords suck, let's keep it on topic... :thumbsdown_anim:

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yea the metaphors to the cadillac=mac started it all. i love mac and their beauty. their are truly the only computer is beautiful and powerful. only thing is my imac runs slow when it runs something under rosetta. only 512 MB ram and dam the apple ram is expensive. and apple gave me two 256 MB chips of ram so it would cost me alot to upgrade. with the amount of typing i do in word it makes me mad that when i type all i can run is word and maybe safari for research but basically my 4 year old pc runs faster than it when in rosetta. i still love macs though, it will take time but eventually all the programs will go universal or most likely in a lil while it will only be the intel binary becuase its not like apple is going to go back to ppc. anyways my fingers are hurting and im tired good night.

CHEVY RULES!!!!!!!!

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I would say Apples complete control is one of the things that truly holds them back :2cents:

 

Microsoft doesn't need to be involved with hardware, they just need to support it :D

 

And that's exactly what holds Microsoft back, the need to support 10+ years of legacy code and billions of different hardware combinations.

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that's exactly what holds Microsoft back, the need to support 10+ years of legacy code and billions of different hardware combinations.

 

NO, thats what makes them rich$$$$$

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yea because college students can get a windows laptop for like 400-500 dollars with an intel core 2 duo processor. mac gives them a discount but still the cheapest laptop is like 1000 dollars which most college students dont have to throw away on a beautiful laptop. if it works for them then they are happy. if it is beautiful then better but mostly if it works good. and windows offers that truly. if a person gets GOOD antivirus software then then most likely will not get a virus and if they do then it is cuz they are downloading porn and illegal software. windows isnt bad its just not as good as Mac.

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Apple, in my opinion, is very good at combining form and function. For example, I recently had the displeasure of upgrading my aunt's new Compaq Presario SR1810NX (or something like that.) Firstly, the case inside is hard to work in. Secondly, the PCI slots were all held in by one screw, that held down a cover that kinda clipped onto the back of the box. The screw is right next to the edge of the case, and it's very hard to get a screwdriver in there. Secondly adding another hard drive is a bit like trying to do brain surgery, you have to lift a latch, weave cables around stuff, and things like that. The worst part, however, was getting the cards out of her old Compaq, which used the old-style Torx heads that Compaq is known and hated for. The old one has a worse mess of cables and such than the new, even though the PCI cards are latched in the normal way. Also, the thing is covered in stickers and ugly plastic moldings and such, and a not-very-organized rear end.

 

Compare this to my cousin's new Mac Pro:

Upgrading the hard drive was a snap, no latches or screws needed.

Adding a PCI card was ridicolously simple, and I didn't have to break out the special screwdriver set. Also, the back of the Pro is both a) neatly organized and :rolleyes: stunning to look at. That pretty much describes the whole thing, really. No ugly "Intel Inside" or "Windows Vista-Ready" or "ATI" stickers, anywhere. Only distinguishing marks are the Apple logos on the sides.

 

So really, Apple isn't about form vs. function, it's about form AND function.

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has anyone noticed that whenever there is a laptop in a movie or commercial it is ALWAYS a silver macbook pro. thats how beautiful they are, they are used on TV instead of the ugly pc's. just thought i would throw that in.

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Sure, look at the West Wing with their PowerBook G3's, or Alias and Heroes using KDE. Oh wait....

 

(24 switched from Mac to KDE at one point as well. That's product placement!)

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NO, thats what makes them rich$$$$$

 

Nope, what made Microsoft rich was using strongarm tactics to discourage computer makers from selling computers with any other OS besides Windows. Unfortunately, by the time the government got involved to try to reign them in, most of the damage had already been done, which left them being the dominant company in the operating system market. That momentum hasn't entirely gone away, but it is starting to slip some, with Apple and various Linux vendors gaining some market share.

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yea because college students can get a windows laptop for like 400-500 dollars with an intel core 2 duo processor.

 

I've never seen one of these in the wild. Can someone please find me one?

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Apple could follow Asustek which introduced Asrock .Asrock = ASUS on the cheap

With cheap Applerock Mac ...OSX could gain some market shares from Windows

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The form of the computers made by Apple just craps all over the other windoze boxes out there, but form also includes the user experience.

 

Sort of wholistic. Or something.

 

Give me a Mac anyday - if I had 10c for every time I had to fix someone's PC...

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haha nanny noose if u think i am going to prove to you that hp is selling those laptops then think again. its {censored} to you and me becuase i have a macbbok pro and i the reason i have one is becuase my hp laptop broke 3 times in 1 month. they gave me my thousand dollars back and i upgraded to the macbook pro core 2 duo.

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Oh I love this topic.

 

Apple uses notebook components in all their computers except for the workstations, which therefore they make them more expensive then a pc. It also makes them not as fast performance wise. Ask any gamer that games on pc's and they will tell you they don't care what their pc's case looks like. Rather they care about how fast it is. As do most pc users. They want the most bang for the buck. And that is what pc's deliver.

 

Think about it this way. For apple to modify the form factor so that it doesn't look as good but then they'd be able to use desktop parts, you'd probably get a faster mac for the same price. But apple won't sacrifice the looks of the product for that at all.

 

Finally one more point I'd like to bring up. Now that mac's are using intel cpu's, we now can watch for months to go by before they release a product that uses that new chip. All other PC makers, they have them right away for sale. The mac faithful are use to waiting for stuff like this. The rest of us using PC's don't like to wait and when we see another pc maker using the new intel cpu's already and apple has no mention of it when they will have them ready, they will just buy a PC instead of a Mac.

 

So to me, function over form any day.

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Apple uses notebook components in all their computers except for the workstations, which therefore they make them more expensive then a pc. It also makes them not as fast performance wise. Ask any gamer that games on pc's and they will tell you they don't care what their pc's case looks like. Rather they care about how fast it is. As do most pc users. They want the most bang for the buck. And that is what pc's deliver.

 

I think most gamers actually spend a little extra cash, if not a ton, on a case they think looks cool.

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I would say Apples complete control is one of the things that truly holds them back :D

Agreed. But if Apple decided to go the MS route and distribute copies of OS X like Windows, Apple would lose hardware sales.

 

But if Apple really wanted to sweep the market away from MS, they could do that, and make Rosetta run Windows applications easily.

 

Then Microsoft would be done for.

 

But until then, Microsoft, whether you like it or not, STILL has a strong hold on this market.

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Form and function. They are beautiful, and they perform. Performance not in a price to GFLOP sense, but performance in the sense of easy to use and hassle free. On native hardware, OSX is very stable, and virtually no bugs/viruses/malware/spyware.

 

The minimally computer literate home user loves the mac. It works, and they don't need bleeding edge speed for surfing, email, photos, music. Its all Easy.

 

The minimally computer literate power user (graphics/audio professional) gets reasonable power/price (quite competitive, if you do the math) along with solid pro apps, once again, hassle free.

 

"Bill, where's that new video clip? I need it right now"

"Sorry, its not ready yet, spent all morning with tech support, trying to fix my WinXP....."

 

Most of us here are computer hobbyists, but there are pleny of consumers out there that want to use a computer without having to understand how it works, and not have to figure out how to fix it all the time.

 

I'd say that nicely integrated hardware/software is worth a small premium, but probably not to most of us here..... :)

 

Apple has found its (yes, small) niche markets. Apple is doing well enough doing what it is doing. Apple has long given up selling to the gEeK/overclokR/gAmerZ crowd. Its time we got over it.

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Ive been a mac user since I was 3, and over the years, function and form sometimes traded places. For instance, my 6150/66 Workgroup Server was a flat, lean, machine. It looked cool because it was really flat and low profile for its time, but the performance wasnt all that great (66 mhz, 72 mb ram, around 1995). But, when i got a G3 beige desktop, it blew every other peecees doors off (at the time. 333mhz, 128mb ram, around 1998), but the case was HUGE, and looked odd and kinda bulgy. It wasnt until around 2001, when i picked up the oh-so-coveted imacs of the time, that both form and function worked together(kinda). It looked awesome and was pretty powerful, albeit, also expensive (I payed $1200 for 700 mhz, 256 mb ram, 64 mb video card, and a dvd-rom).

 

For me, it needs to be a balance of the two. I need the performing power, but the looks are also very important me. When i recently visited my friend who built his own gaming machine, it was fast as hell, but the form was horrible. The motherboard was so big, that he had to buy a huge tower, which was probably even bigger than a monster g5 tower case, and was made of translucent acrylic, black acrylic, and several embeded bright blue LEDs. Just lookign at it both gave me a headache and made me almost go blind. He told me that when he goes to sleep he has to either cover the case with a black tshirt or shut it down completely. The worst part is something apple has executed perfectly on almost all their computers for the last 5 years--cooling. The beast needed 4, 120 mm fans and 2, 180 mm fans to keep it at an egg frying 183 degrees Fahrenheit. My mac mini is barely audible, even when accompanied by an external WD hard drive, and, on a bad day, the needle barely touches 169 degrees Fahrenheit. of course the processing power isnt comparable, but for casual, and sometimes somewhat rigorous use, it performs fine. Ie been able to play many games without a problem. Even COD2 runs ok on it.

 

So, ill take form over function, but with enough function to get work done.

Edited by ResXhacker

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For me, it needs to be a balance of the two. I need the performing power, but the looks are also very important me. When i recently visited my friend who built his own gaming machine, it was fast as hell, but the form was horrible. The motherboard was so big, that he had to buy a huge tower, which was probably even bigger than a monster g5 tower case, and was made of translucent acrylic, black acrylic, and several embeded bright blue LEDs. Just lookign at it both gave me a headache and made me almost go blind. He told me that when he goes to sleep he has to either cover the case with a black tshirt or shut it down completely. The worst part is something apple has executed perfectly on almost all their computers for the last 5 years--cooling. The beast needed 4, 120 mm fans and 2, 180 mm fans to keep it at an egg frying 183 degrees Fahrenheit. My mac mini is barely audible, even when accompanied by an external WD hard drive, and, on a bad day, the needle barely touches 169 degrees Fahrenheit. of course the processing power isnt comparable, but for casual, and sometimes somewhat rigorous use, it performs fine. Ie been able to play many games without a problem. Even COD2 runs ok on it.

 

So, ill take form over function, but with enough function to get work done.

It's obviouse your friend built a arcore oerclocked game machine.

I guarntee you you couldn't play half the games he has at the FPS and screen quality.

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It's obviouse your friend built a arcore oerclocked game machine.

I guarntee you you couldn't play half the games he has at the FPS and screen quality.

 

haha You nailed it. He's trying to compare a highend gaming machine that is over clocked as well against his mac mini with on board graphics. Some people really are delusional. They are in 2 different classes. Plus PC users have been able to buy quad core intel pc's for a while now. Why haven't mac users been able to? They use the same chips after all. Maybe if Apple started to use desktop cpu's instead of laptop cpu's they could do that on their desktop models. But that's the price you pay for choosing form factor over performance. One always goes over the other.

Edited by pyrates

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