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Question regarding mSATA on eeepc 901 which has a mini PCIE slot.

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Hello All, I was given an Asus Eeepc 901 netbook recently. So i thought why not install lion on it! I know the processor is N270 which is 32 bit and lion don't support 32 bit but i remember back in 2012, I installed lion on my X60s which featured a 32 bit processor but its quite fast. So i have installed lion on its 8gb ssd. Every apps works! By its really slow. Because firstly the laptop bios have no achi option, secondly the ssd writing and reading speed according to: http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/8580/ASUS-PHISON-SSDis very slow, thirdly if I'm not wrong this ssd is a PATA meaning IDE kind. So i flashed a custom bios made by a Japanese guy who enabled the achi option in the bios. Now its slightly faster. Im thinking of upgrading the currently ssd to msata. But i seen a lot of people saying its not possible without some mod as the asus uses something called flash_con. Despite the msata and mini PCI-E look resembles but its not the same due to the pin layout or something like that. After several hours of researching, I saw on Ebay where a guy is selling an adaptor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/mini-pci-e-msata-SSD-to-SATA-Mini-PCIE-adapter-card-/221818510797 I presume the adaptor is to convert msata to mini pci-e. The seller claimed that:"  The speed and other properties is not changed,only form conversion interface. " So I wonder if i buy this and a msata, will this adaptor change the msata sata to IDE? Reason is because i need it to be in SATA mode, as I want to enable trim function in Mac OS X. Thanks :)


Hi, any Mod who reading this, maybe you want to move this thread to the hardware components IDE/SATA section? Im so sorry, as i didn't saw the IDE/SATA section before posting this. Thank you very much :)

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Indeed, a PATA interface only operate in good old IDE mode, so it's much slower than a SATA disk in AHCI mode. PATA speed maxed out at 133Mo/s whereas SATA varies from 1.5Gbit/s to 6Gbit/s (theoretical speeds), depending on version (SATA I=1.5Gb/s (~150Mo/s), SATA II = 3Gb/s (~300Mo/s), SATA III = 6Gb/s (~600Mo/s)).

 

This being said, I'd be surprised if you actually had a PATA physical interface on that notebook, as opposed to a SATA interface, limited to IDE mode in BIOS. That's more likely to be the case, it was quite common on laptops fitted with GM945 chipset.

 

The adapter you linked appears to be a mini-PCIe to mSATA adapter, i.e. it is to use a mSATA SSD into a mini-PCIe slot. That would indeed provide you with much faster disk access that your current SATA-IDE mode. It may also provide you with TRIM support, something you cannot have on a SSD in IDE mode. In fact, you may even notice that your current SSD is not detected as such in your SysProfiler under it's current IDE mode, but as a good-old hard disk. But before anything else, check that your notebook can be booted from mini-PCIe slot before you proceed; it may not be the case.

 

I myself use a mSATA SSD in my Dell D430 notebook which only has a Zif PATA interface. I replaced the original snail-slow 4200rpm Zif HDD by a mSATA SSD through a Zif-to-mSATA adapter card and the performance difference was phenomenal, though limited by the PATA interface speed and the SSD is seen as a regular HDD with no TRIM capability.

 

Very interested to hear about that mini-PCIe to mSATA adapter results if you proceed with it; it'd be a possible serious update for my D430 which has 2 x mini-PCIe slots, though the length of the adapter might be an issue. Check that out yourself.

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Indeed, a PATA interface only operate in good old IDE mode, so it's much slower than a SATA disk in AHCI mode. PATA speed maxed out at 133Mo/s whereas SATA varies from 1.5Gbit/s to 6Gbit/s (theoretical speeds), depending on version (SATA I=1.5Gb/s (~150Mo/s), SATA II = 3Gb/s (~300Mo/s), SATA III = 6Gb/s (~600Mo/s)).

 

The adapter you linked appears to be a mini-PCIe to mSATA adapter, i.e. it is to use a mSATA SSD into a mini-PCIe slot. That would indeed provide you with much faster disk access that your current SATA-IDE mode. It may also provide you with TRIM support, something you cannot have on a SSD in IDE mode. In fact, you may even notice that your current SSD is not detected as such in your SysProfiler under it's current IDE mode, but as a good-old hard disk.

Thanks for the reply! I think I'm going to buy the adaptor followed by a msata ssd! Surprisingly my current Asus Phison PATA ssd is detected in the Sys Profiler under ATA! But my only concern currently is whether the adaptor will convert the msata sata to IDE. Actually i can buy a Mini PCIE SSD in SATA made by Kingstech but I think its speed is much inferior compared to mSATA right?

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I think you confuse SATA and IDE. Consider that PATA + SATA are the physical interfaces and IDE + AHCI the running modes of the interface. PATA runs in traditional IDE mode, whereas SATA can run in both IDE (i.e. "compatible" mode) or AHCI; it can even run in RAID mode!

You don't need to worry about a possible "conversion" by the adaptor of mSATA SATA to IDE. All you really need to assess is your notebook's ability to boot from a mini-PCIe slot. If it does, then it doesn't matter whether the mSATA SSD will run in IDE or AHCI mode; it'll simply depend on the BIOS specs and/or the mSATA controller.

All in all, you may consider a mini-PCIe SSD instead of an mSATA; if that is still available of course... I know Samsung had some models, but that was several years ago.

Speed-wise, mini-PCIe would give 250Mo/s minimum, again depending on version and bus width. Wikipedia states:

  • v1.x (x1 lane) = 250Mo/s
  • v2.x (x1 lane) = 500Mo/s
  • v3.x (x1 lane) = 985Mo/s

Regarding the Kingstech mini-PCIe SSD, it may well be a better alternative than an mSATA + adapter. You're limited by the mini-PCIe specs anyway and the Kingstech may have an onboard SATA controller, in which case, you're on the safe side.

Edited by Hervé

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I think you confuse SATA and IDE. Consider that PATA + SATA are the physical interfaces and IDE + AHCI the running modes of the interface. PATA runs in traditional IDE mode, whereas SATA can run in both IDE (i.e. "compatible" mode) or AHCI; it can even run in RAID mode!

 

You don't need to worry about a possible "conversion" by the adaptor of mSATA SATA to IDE. All you really need to assess is your notebook's ability to boot from a mini-PCIe slot. If it does, then it doesn't matter whether the mSATA SSD will run in IDE or AHCI mode; it'll simply depend on the BIOS specs and/or the mSATA controller.

 

All in all, you may consider a mini-PCIe SSD instead of an mSATA; if that is still available of course... I know Samsung had some models, but that was several years ago.

 

Speed-wise, mini-PCIe would give 250Mo/s minimum, again depending on version and bus width. Wikipedia states:

v1.x (x1 lane) = 250Mo/s

v2.x (x1 lane) = 500Mo/s

v3.x (x1 lane) = 985Mo/s

 

Regarding the Kingstech mini-PCIe SSD, it may well be a better alternative than an mSATA + adapter. You're limited by the mini-PCIe specs anyway and the Kingstech may have an onboard SATA controller.

Thank you for your reply. Yeah i do get abit confuse on IDE and SATA. Btw I came across a statement at Wikipedia about msata:"The connector is similar in appearance to a PCI Express Mini Card interface,[46] but is not electrically compatible; the data signals (TX±/RX± SATA, PETn0 PETp0 PERn0 PERp0 PCI Express) need a connection to the SATA host controller instead of the PCI Expresshost controller." I assume the adapter make a connection to the SATA host controller? But wheres the SATA host controller? Is it on the mSATA itself? Because I read somewhere, someone said that its not possible to use mSATA on miniPCI-E because as you know PCI-E is normally used for wifi/bluetooth card, graphic card and etc so its not link to the SATA host controller unlike mSATA mobo is linked to the SATA host controller. Also unlike msata, mPCIE ssd is equipped with a host controller. Thats why I'm a bit skeptical about the adapter. But my skeptical was short lived because after several hours of researching, I came across a thread: https://translate.google.com.sg/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f227/welche-ssd-fuer-eee-pc-901-a-1027153.html&prev=searchWhere a guy bought the adapter(Actually this adapter is made by a Japanese guy whose company is called Soltec Its website is:http://soltec.exblog.jp/17871679/ ), installed Windows 7 on the mSATA ssd and flashed the bios that I have flashed(yep, from a Japanese guy). He claimed that he even have trim enabled after flashing the bios which allows him to set to ACHI. So I assume the ssd is in ACHI mode and if he were to run OS X, it would have appeared on system information under SATA? Im sorry to bother you. Really thank you for taking the trouble to answer my question.

Regarding speed wise, according to the manufacturer of the adapter, he said he couldn't get the exact speed as the mSATA manufacturer claimed due to limitations, but compared to Kingspec mini pci-e or other mini-pcie sata ssd, its still faster.

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Indeed, mini-PCIe and mSATA slots look identical but are not electrically compatible. I think only a handful of recent laptops do provide combo mini-PCIE/mSATA/USB slots (the Dell E6440 laptop is one of those).

To me, any mSATA SSD fitted to the adapter will require an on-board SATA/host controller just like any mini-PCIe SSD if one was fitted. If you consult the Intel GM945 chipset data sheet, you'll see that there is no host/disk controller attached to any of the mini-PCIe (x1) ports running off the I/O controller.

http://www.minipciessd.com

Edited by Hervé

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Indeed, mini-PCIe and mSATA slots look identical but are not electrically compatible. I think only a handful of recent laptops do provide combo mini-PCIE/mSATA/USB slots (the Dell E6440 laptop is one of those).

 

To me, any mSATA SSD fitted to the adapter will require an on-board SATA/host controller just like any mini-PCIe SSD if one was fitted. If you consult the Intel GM945 chipset data sheet, you'll see that there is no host/disk controller attached to any of the mini-PCIe (x1) ports running off the I/O controller.

 

http://www.minipciessd.com

 

I'm pretty sure all mini-PCIe SSDs had/have/use a PATA controller whereas mSATA SSDs very obviously use a SATA interface/controller...

Hi Herve, Sorry for the late reply. I didn't see it. Omg. I bought the adapter two days ago! As i didn't see your reply. But I'm a bit curious, why kingspec or other brand sell mini PCI E sata ssd when its not attached to the host controller? Is it because the ssd itself is equipped with a sata controller or something like that. If so, then maybe I will cancel my order and maybe order the kingspec or other brand! Really thank you for helping me all this while!

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I would expect most mini-PCIe models to be PATA. I could be wrong of course but I would not see the benefit of manufacturing a SSD with a mini-PCIe interface that would require an onboard SATA controller when the mSATA standard exists.

Edit: having done my research, I was wrong! There were/are mini-PCIe SSD with built-in SATA controllers. Eg: KingSpec CHA-SMP.6-Mxxx, Renice X3 or SuperTalent MLC. Though real mini-PCIe SSDs are kind of rare to find and often labelled as mSATA, so confusion between mini-PCIe and mSATA still prevails.

Edited by Hervé

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Well mini PCIe was present before mSATA technology became standard, 

 

 

 

 

mini-PCIe interface that would require an onboard SATA controller

 

The reason is because the EEEPC 901 in 2008 was on the market before mSATA became standard. mSATA became standard when UltraBooks became popular.

 

@Sen, did you get the adapter ? Check this link where it is clearly stated that it is made for the EeePC : http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINTECH-3x5cm-mSATA-adapter-as-3x7cm-mini-PCI-e-SATA-SSD-4-ASUS-EeePC-901-900A-/321532154310?hash=item4adccf51c6

Also, there are USB to mini PCIe adapters, and CF to mini PCIe.

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Hello All, I was given an Asus Eeepc 901 netbook recently. So i thought why not install lion on it! I know the processor is N270 which is 32 bit and lion don't support 32 bit but i remember back in 2012, I installed lion on my X60s which featured a 32 bit processor but its quite fast. So i have installed lion on its 8gb ssd. Every apps works! By its really slow. Because firstly the laptop bios have no achi option, secondly the ssd writing and reading speed according to: http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/8580/ASUS-PHISON-SSDis very slow, thirdly if I'm not wrong this ssd is a PATA meaning IDE kind. So i flashed a custom bios made by a Japanese guy who enabled the achi option in the bios. Now its slightly faster. Im thinking of upgrading the currently ssd to msata. But i seen a lot of people saying its not possible without some mod as the asus uses something called flash_con. Despite the msata and mini PCI-E look resembles but its not the same due to the pin layout or something like that. After several hours of researching, I saw on Ebay where a guy is selling an adaptor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/mini-pci-e-msata-SSD-to-SATA-Mini-PCIE-adapter-card-/221818510797 I presume the adaptor is to convert msata to mini pci-e. The seller claimed that:"  The speed and other properties is not changed,only form conversion interface. " So I wonder if i buy this and a msata, will this adaptor change the msata sata to IDE? Reason is because i need it to be in SATA mode, as I want to enable trim function in Mac OS X. Thanks :)

Hi, any Mod who reading this, maybe you want to move this thread to the hardware components IDE/SATA section? Im so sorry, as i didn't saw the IDE/SATA section before posting this. Thank you very much :)

 

What was your final choice ?

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What was your final choice ?

So i bought the adapter from ebay. Just arrived recently. I have yet buy a msata ssd for it as im currently busy with school stuff. I will update this thread and let you guys know! Thank you herve and juandante1!

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So i bought the adapter from ebay. Just arrived recently. I have yet buy a msata ssd for it as im currently busy with school stuff. I will update this thread and let you guys know! Thank you herve and juandante1!

 

What is superb with mSATA, is that there are insanely high performance (some are 500 mb/s) for low price :

 

AR3b9vj.png

 

32go for 20€ and it is just my first search ! This is scalding to give a new birth to a laptop

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Sure and, having one myself, I can confirm the Samsung SM841N has fantastic Read and Write performances... but all those will only be useful here if they can actually be used with the adapter on this Asus EeePC 901.
 
In the end, it all depends on the ability of that NetBook to boot from mini-PCIe port, i.e. whether there is a disk controller attached to it. I don't believe there is and the OP's initial idea risks being dead in the water. To me he'll need an mSATA SSD with built-in SATA controller or forget the mini-PCIe to mSATA adapter and opt for a mini-PCIe SSD with built-in PATA/SATA controller (which could be a rare find these days). 
 
Stated CPU is Atom N270 i.e. Diamondville generation and that usually paired with Intel 945GSE (or 945GC) chipset. There is definitely no disk controller linked to PCIe ports on the Intel 945 Express chipset variants.
 
I'd go for this kind of mini-PCIe SATA-II products if I were the OP (assuming they're still available), they have the necessary built-in SATA controller:

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Here is what you can do to use  mSATA :

 

Buy a mSATA to ZIF adapter for 5-6$ :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-cable-Adapter-PCI-E-MSATA-50MM-3-3V-SSD-to-1-8-CE-ZIF-PATA-40pin-/251621249253?hash=item3a95cb90e5:g:7ckAAOSwGvhT8rlx

Buy a ZIF to mPCI PATA adapter for 3-4$ :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-inch-CF-ZIF-HDD-to-MiniPCI-E-Adapter-Converter-for-ASUS-EEEPC-901-900A-/301413484879?hash=item462da4c94f:g:LD0AAOSw7hRWPYn0

Buy a cheap mSATA SSD : 128GB for 30-40$ ;)

Knowing you have a 128GB netbook,

PROFIT  !

 

Or also : an mSATA to CF connector, then a CF to  mPCI PATA, one cheap mSATA SSD, PROFIT !

 

 

Edit : In response to Hervé, I seriously don't know why he keeps  saying that the adaptor will not work. It is made for the EEEPC and there are a lot of guys saying (in the same link of the OP) that this adaptor is working https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com.sg&sl=de&u=http://www.eee-forum.de/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D18%26t%3D572%26sid%3Dfb1d7905c4688d14f63a88a204406e90%26start%3D70&usg=ALkJrhiuoY5fdrvqo2qkS0RGRNACCZ7lNg. Please stop saying non sense.

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On 11/11/2015 at 2:55 PM, juandante1 said:

[...]

 

Edit : In response to Hervé, I seriously don't know why he keeps  saying that the adaptor will not work. It is made for the EEEPC and there are a lot of guys saying (in the same link of the OP) that this adaptor is working https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com.sg&sl=de&u=http://www.eee-forum.de/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D18%26t%3D572%26sid%3Dfb1d7905c4688d14f63a88a204406e90%26start%3D70&usg=ALkJrhiuoY5fdrvqo2qkS0RGRNACCZ7lNg. Please stop saying non sense.

Can you please quote where I specifically wrote that "the adaptor will not work"?

What I have repeatedly stated that I questioned the ability of the OP's EeePC 901 to boot an SSD without built-in disk controller from its mini-PCIe slot (or I should say "Flash Con" slot, an Asus proprietary version of the mini PCIe standard), something quite different. Calling that "non-sense" is probably a little arrogant, but then again that's typically French! I invite you to exert a little caution with what you write about other people's statements and not lie in that respect.

Your posted link was an interesting reading. I guess you did not read it all because it seems that the FlashCon slot in question is "slave" and an mSATA not directly bootable off it, as I suspected. The laptop needs a special patched BIOS and a special EFI partition at SSD root to become bootable since it's not detected by BIOS. Whether that will be compatible with OS X remains to be seen.

I suspect it would probably work with another "master" HDD/SSD able to initiate bootstrap and then boot off the FlashCon slot, i.e. something a bootloader like Chameleon does as long as the mSATA SSD is seen...

Edited by Hervé

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        -Clover   https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloverefiboot/files/Installer/   -Lan driver by Mieze     -Atheros http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/313-atherose2200ethernet/   -Intel http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/396-intelmausiethernet/   -Realtek http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/88-realtekrtl8111-binary/   -Links     -FakeSmc https://bitbucket.org/RehabMan/os-x-fakesmc-kozlek   -Audio https://github.com/vit9696/AppleALC http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/293863-applehda-patch-requests/   -USB https://bitbucket.org/RehabMan/os-x-usb-inject-all/downloads   if u like, Rate Topic     It's time to Rock -Credits and thanks to the old and new people in the community who developed patches, kexts and bootloaders!   Slice, Kabyl, usr-sse2, jadran, Blackosx, dmazar, STLVNUB, pcj, apianti, JrCs, pene, FrodoKenny, skoczy, ycr.ru, Oscar09, xsmile, SoThOr, RehabMan, Download-Fritz, Zenit432, cecekpawon, Intel, Apple, Oracle, Chameleon Team, crazybirdy, Mieze, Mirone, Oldnapalm, netkas, Elconiglio, artut-pt, ErmaC, Pavo, Toleda, Master Chief and family, bcc9, The King, PMheart, Sherlocks, Micky1979, vit9696, vandroiy2013, Voodoo Team, Pike R. Alpha, lvs1974, Austere.J, CVad, badruzeus and many, many, many others!   We're all here to have fun and learn from each other!   ENJOY!  
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