Recently Browsing 0 members
No registered users viewing this page.
Unfortunately this is not my PC, I just decided to share the found config successful installation.
OS X 10.15.0 Beta 2
CPU Intel XEON E5 2650 v3
MB MSI X99A RAIDER
AMD Radeon RX VEGA 56 video card
Kingston HyperX Fury DDR4 2133Mhz 20gb memory
Crucial 4gb 2400Mhz
Sound E-MU 0202, Alc892 and AMD DisplayPort Audio
Intel Gigabit LAN network
WI-FI Broadcom BCM94360CS2
BCM20702 BT (trackpad and keyboard work in the BIOS)
BP Enermax Platimax 1000W
SSD NVMe Reina 480gb
Samsung 850 Pro 120gb
Dell U2713H monitor
USB 15 ports are registered manually. 3.0 works.
Services usual, SpeedStep instituted through kekst.
Sleep is unstable.
So, this little tutorial is meant to help people fix a new issue with Mojave: opening jpg files (looks like it happens with larger files, not so much with smaller ones) using Quick Look (on spacebar key pressed) or Preview app, using the dedicated GPUs.
The issue is that, when trying to open jpg files (for some reason, it doesn't occur with pngs), the pop-up window would remain in an endless loop. And from that point forward, any other app trying to open the same file will either become unresponsive (in the case of the Preview app) or just stay in endless loop (in case of Quick Look)
As a workaround, in case the tutorial below doesn't work for you, you can use Grab (built-in app in MacOS) to open said files.
This issue DOES NOT occur using the iGPU. So...if you're comfortable using the iGPU, just switch to that and you should be good to go. You don't need this tutorial.
This tutorial is based on @Cyberdevs' research and testing on this topic (especially useful if you're using an RX series AMD video card), and my own very limited time testing this on my rig. I just thought it would be useful to create a new thread for it so that people can discuss this particular issue here.
With that being said, I'll just move on to the actual tutorial.
New (probably better) method.
Switch your SMBIOS in Clover config in regards to the dedicated GPU you're using, instead of the CPU. Take a look here and choose the corresponding SMBIOS closest to your hardware.
Yeah, that's it.
In case you lose CPU PM with this method, there are multiple ways to fix that, and they do not make the object of this thread. It worked perfectly fine for me though and I didn't need to change anything else.
Alternatively, you can also try one of the MacPro SMBIOSes, such as MacPro5,1 or MacPro6,1. It was tested multiple times and it showed good results.
Keep in mind that choosing these will most likely not show you an iGPU in System Report, since those machines generally (probably all of them) use Xeon CPUs with no iGPUs either.
/!\NOTE: There have been reports saying that using this method (switching SMBIOS to a MacPro one) with newer versions of MacOS may cause iTunes to crash.
So...keep that in mind and better try some of the other methods mentioned here.
A simple Lilu plugin
Thanks to vulgo for the plugin and @Matgen84 for sharing and testing it, we now have yet another possible solution to this issue. It's a Lilu plugin (which means that it requires Lilu.kext in order to work) it's called NoVPAJpeg, and it can be downloaded from here.
You use it as a regular kext, alongside Lilu. I prefer (and recommend) using it within the EFI folder, in Clover/kexts/Other. But if you want to use it in S/L/E, that should work just fine.
More info can be found in this post here.
According to Vulgo, NoVPAJpeg.kext is now deprecated.
In case its functionality is needed, use WhateverGreen.kext and add the following boot arguments:
shikigva=32 shiki-id=Mac-7BA5B2D9E42DDD94 In case you wanna try alternative medicine ...
The main thing we need to do is actually very simple: we need to enable the iGPU (integrated GPU) by default, in BIOS, while actually being connected to the dedicated GPU.
For ATI GPUs (curtesy of @Cyberdevs' post here).
The discreet GPU should be set as primary in BIOS and your displays should be connected to your discreet GPU
The iGD/iGPU/iGFX must be enabled in BIOS/UEFI as the secondary GPU.
I removed the DSDT Reconfigured the config.plist to and removed some flags which weren't needed because of the DSDT added the InjectATI + Ornioco Framebuffer (I removed the Orinoco framebuffer because of some weird glitches but it might be useful for other AMD GPUs if you inject the correct framebuffer according to your GPU. No need to inject anything for nVidia GPUs unless your GPU needs it) Added the InjectIntel + ig-platform-id for my intel HD530 (for intel HD 530 I use the 0x19120001 ig-platform-id)
Steps 5 to 7 might not be necessary I just did them anyway, if anyone succeeded to get quicklook working without those steps let me know so I can exclude those steps.
Also confirmed to work with AMD R9 270X on a SandyBridge rig (without an iGPU) using WhateverGreen + Lilu kexts, which also helped to solve the transparency issue along with the Quick Look problem, it also resolved the buggy Screen Capture (Command+Shift+5) issue as well.
nvram cleanup kextcache & prelinked kernel rebuild reboot More info on that here.
For NVIDIA GPUs (tested on my old MSi GTX 650)
This is what I needed for my NVIDIA GPU and the MSI motherboard in the signature (*since then, I upgraded my GPU to my current RX 580). Your milage may vary, depending on your hardware. But, the idea should be the same regardless.
For MSi motherboads (check out my motherboard details in the signature)
Set your BIOS to use PEG (dedicated GPU) so you can boot.
Since you're reading this, chances are that you're already connected to the dedicated GPU and the BIOS is set to PEG. So just go into BIOS and see if you're using the iGPU or the dedicated (PEG) graphics device by default.
If you're already using this, skip to Step 3 (the part AFTER Reboot). Reboot (I think you don't necessarily need to boot into the OS...but you do need to reboot at least until Clover UI) Reboot back into BIOS and set it from PEG to IGD (integrated graphics) WITHOUT removing the cable. Save Reboot again.
The result should be that the OS is tricked into thinking you're booting with the IGPU when in fact you're using the dedicated GPU.
For Gigabyte motherboards
Peripherals -> Initial Display Output -> iGFX Chipset -> Internal Graphics -> Enabled
DVMT Pre-Allocation -> default 64M.
DVMT Total Gfx Mem -> default 256M Save Reboot
You should do this with the cable connected to the dedicated GPU.
You will also need to patch the iGPU from Clover config.
1. Graphics -> Inject Intel (UNCHECK Inject Nvidia or ATI if it's checked).
2. ig-platform-id (in my case for Intel HD 4600 Desktop) it was: 0x0d220003
And use IntelGraphicsFixup.kext (now included into WhateverGreen.kext) in Clover/kexts/Other. In my particular case, without the kext, I would get freezes in Safari.
Another way to activate the iGPU while having the dGPU set as primary is by going into BIOS/SAG/Graphics Configuration/iGPU and setting Multi-Monitor to [Enabled], all the rest remains on [Auto], and set Inject/Intel to [True] in Clover config.*.
Thanks to @gjw for the tip.
*Motherboard dependent. But the multi-monitor option might be the same regardless of manufacturer.
This might be a bug with Mojave and it could be fixed by Apple in the future. but in the meantime, feel free to use this if it helps you fix the issue.
For HP motherboards (including laptops), so far no solution, unless the BIOS somehow allows to switch from dGPU to iGPU and vice-versa.
MOJAVE HACKINTOSH GUIDE
GIGABYTE AORUS PRO Z390
CREDITS & THANKS
His help with EFI configuration and DSDT
Slice, Kabyl, usr-sse2, jadran, Blackosx, dmazar, STLVNUB, pcj, apianti, JrCs, pene, FrodoKenny, skoczy, ycr.ru, Oscar09, xsmile, SoThOr, rehabman, Download-Fritz, Zenit432, cecekpawon Et al
autumnrain, slice2009, zenith432
ESP PRO MOUNTER
Hackintosh Vanilla Desktop Guide
/r/Hackintosh - corpnewt
JoniVR & theOneyouseek
• Intel I7 8700
• Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO
• Gigabyte AORUS RADEON RX 580 8GB ( connected to monitor with DisplayPort )
• Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB ( 2 x 8GB ) 2666MHz – CMK16GX4M2A2666C16 In this build, both memory modules are installed in memory slots DDR4_A1 and DDR4_B1
• Corsair RM650x 80 Plus Gold Power Supply Unit
• Corsair H100i V2 AIO Hydro/Water RGB LED CPU Cooler
• Samsung EVO 500GB SSD (2.5) macOS Mojave
• Samsung EVO 250 GB SSD (2.5) Windows 10 Pro
• NZXT H500 Mid Tower ATX Case
• 1st RECOMMENDED WIFI CARD → ABWB BCM943602CS 802.11AC WI-FI With Bluetooth 4.0 PCI-Express (PCI-E)
• 2nd RECOMMENDED WIFI CARD → WIFI and Bluetooth with BCM94331CD with PCI-e adapter (but will require AirportBrcmFixup.kext for AirDrop.. )
• Ethernet Port
• SSD Trim
• USB 3.0 & 2.0
• Hardware Acceleration AMD RX 580 / AMD Vega
• Netflix on Safari browser
PREAMBLE - BEFORE YOU START
Here detailed, is all the steps towards building a successful and stable Aorus Pro Z390 Hackintosh, if you are a first time Hackintosher, this guide will have you quickly up and running with the Aorus Pro Z390 Hackintosh. To rule out potential problems from the go,
only have the disc that you plan to install macOS Mojave connected to the Aorus Pro, disconnect any other Windows / Linux or data drives, external drives from your Aorus Pro. Windows / Linux and data drives can be connected after successful installation of macOS Mojave
If you have more than 16 GB of memory, then install macOS Mojave with just 16GB or RAM installed, you can later add any additional memory. Install memory modules in slots DDR4_A1 and DDR4_B1.
This build has a recommended Wi-Fi combo PCI-e card installed in slot PCIEX1_3 with its 9 pin USB cable attached to motherboard header F_USB2. ( ensure WiFi card is seated properly in PCIe slot and cable is firmly attached to WiFi card and motherboard header F_USB2 )
If using the Corsair H100i v2 AIO cooler with USB cable connected to motherboard header F_USB1, you will need to enable hot-patch ( explained in guide ) in config.plist for working sleep, wake from sleep will only work by pressing Power Button.
Install macOS Mojave on its own physical drive, so do not try and install macOS Mojave onto a free partition on a disc that contains Windows.
Remove any Thunderbolt cards, Thunderbolt card can be reinserted after installation. Double check your BIOS settings are the same as this guide.
Following are unsupported / problematic
• Intel Optane ( if you have this, remove it before installation of macOS Mojave )
• Samsung EVO Plus drives ( ensure you update Plus drive to latest firmware to avoid problems )
• XFX Radeon RX 580
• NVIDIA GTX / RTX not supported in macOS Mojave
Q - WILL THIS GUIDE WORK WITH MY NON AORUS Z390 PRO MOTHERBOARD ?
A - Possibly, though you may have to create your own USBPorts fix.
Q - I notice you have the Aorus Pro Z390 version, will this guide work with Aorus Pro Z390 WiFi version ?
A - Possibly, but onboard Intel / Intel CNVi WIFII /Bluetooth will not work with macOS and you will have to disable HS14 for Bluetooth to function properly.
Q - Can I use my AMD Vega Card ?
A - Yes, AMD Vega card's will work with this guide, but If you plan to use a Sapphire Pulse Vega 56 then please read @AudioGod ==>post regarding the Sapphire Pulse 56.
PART 1 - DOWNLOAD
• Update BIOS to version F10
• Aorus Pro Z390 EFI.zip
• Aorus PRo Z390 EFI - THE OC VERSION.zip <== OC VERSION
• ESP MOUNTER PRO v1.9
• macOS MOJAVE
• CLOVER CONFIGURATOR
• Native Display Brightness with MonitorControl
// Not really needed but IF no sound on Wake from Sleep then use SSDT-ALC1220 and CodecCommander
• ( Resolves Audio Sound on Wake, place in Clover / ACPI / Patched )
• ( Resolves Audio Sound on Wake, place in Clover / Kexts / Other )
PART 2 - BIOS SETTINGS (Version F10 )
Here is a list of the BIOS settings that I use ( Screenshots in spoiler below )
• Enter BIOS → Press F12 → Enter Setup
• Save & Exit → Load Optimized Defaults
• BIOS → Windows 8/10 Features → Other OS
• BIOS → CSM Support → Enabled ( Optionally, can be enabled after macOS is installed, your choice )
• Peripherals → Initial Display Output → PCIe 1 Slot
• Peripherals → Trusted Computing → Security Device Support → Disable
• Peripherals → Intel(R)Bios Guard → Intel BIOS Guard Support → Disable
• Peripherals → USB Configuration → Legacy USB Support → Enabled
• Peripherals → USB Configuration → XHCI Hand-off → Enabled
• Peripherals → Network Stack Configuration → Network Stack → Disabled
• Peripherals → SATA And RST Configuration → SATA Mode Selection → AHCI
• Chipset → Vt-d → Enabled ( can be enabled or disabled, your choice!)
• Chipset → Internal Graphics → Disabled
• Chipset → Audio Controller → Enabled
• Chipset → Above 4G Decoding → Disabled
• Power → Platform Power Management → Disabled ( Optionally, can be enabled after macOS is installed )
• Power → CEC 2019 Ready → Disabled
• Power → ErP → Disabled (can be enabled or disabled, your choice !)
• Power → RC6 (Render Standby) → Disabled
• MIT → Advanced Memory Settings → Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) → Disabled ( Optionally, can be enabled after macOS is installed, your choice )
// IF USING CORSAIR H100i V2 AIO CPU WATER COOLER
• MIT → Smart Fan 5 Settings → CPU Fan Control mode → PWM
• Save & Exit → Save & Exit Setup
SCREEN DUMP SPOILERS
PART 3 – CREATE A MOJAVE USB FLASH INSTALLER
Prepare USB Installer for Mojave ( Video below )
• Insert USB drive
• Launch /Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility
• Disk Utility → View → Show All Devices
• On Left-hand panel → External →(Identify your USB device in left hand panel)
• Click and highlight your USB device in the left-hand panel.
• Click erase button.
• Name: USB
• Format: Mac OS Extended (Journaled )
• Scheme: GUID Partition Map
• Click Erase button.
• Place the downloaded MacOS Mojave app into Applications folder.
• Open Terminal copy and paste:
sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Mojave.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/USB --nointeraction && say Mojave Drive Created • Enter
PART 4 – INSTALL CLOVER ON THE MOJAVE USB INSTALLER
Make Mojave USB flash drive installer bootable.( Video below )
• Launch Clover application, double click.
• Click Continue → Continue → Continue
• Click Change Install Location button.
• Click Install macOSMojave USB installer → Continue
• Click Customise button
Clover for UEFI booting only Install Clover in the ESP Themes UEFI Drivers • Click Install button
• Installation Complete!
PART 5 – CUSTOMIZE MOJAVE USB INSTALLER FOR AORUS Z390 PRO
Replace Clover EFI folder with PRE-INSTALL Aorus Pro Z390 EFI - RX580.zip Aorus Pro Z390 EFI.zip ( Video below )
• Install ESP Mounter Pro v1.9
• Using ESP Mounter Pro, Mount ESP on disk2s1 ( Your disk name may be different )
• Open mounted EFI partition found on desktop
• Copy all the contents from Aorus 390 Pro EFI folder
• Replace USB EFI folder with all the contents inside the Aorus 390 Pro EFI folder.
PART 6 – INSTALL MAC OS MOJAVE ON INTERNAL DRIVE
ENSURE BIOS: Above 4G Decoding is set to Disabled
if Above 4G decoding is set to enabled then macOS Mojave install will freeze at 2 mins remaining and will not shut down properly!!!!
Please be patient during install, so when install gets to 2 or 3 mins remaining then it may take extra time. Be ready to boot from UEFI USB installer by pressing F12 when install initiates restarts.
• INSERT USB INSTALLER INTO THE USB 2.0 PORT
Here is a walkthrough of the full process using the macOS Mojave USB Installer on the Aorus Z390 Pro.
• Power on PC and press F12• Choose bootable USB drive from boot menu.
• Install macOS Mojave to internal solid state or hard drive.
When system returns to the Clover boot menu choose:
• Boot macOS Install from Macintosh
At next restart, press F12 and boot from external UEFI USB device and choose:
• Boot macOS Install from Macintosh
Proceed with macOS Mojave install
macOS Mojave is now installed, but it can only boot at this moment thanks to FakeSMC and Clover on the Mojave USB flash drive installer.
PART 7 – MAKE AORUS Z390 PRO INTERNAL DRIVE BOOTABLE
Make internal drive bootable ( Video below )
So far, the Aorus Pro can only boot the internal system drive with the aid of the Mojave USB Installer.
To boot from the internal system drive without the installer:
Download and install Clover with RC Scripts on target volume.
Copy the EFI folder from inside Aorus Pro Z390 EFI.zip folder and paste it inside the the System Drive EFI partition.
• Remove USB Mojave installer and shut down and restart.
Aorus Hackintosh should now be able to boot to macOS Mojave, Done, well almost !
PART 8 – ENABLE IMESSAGES & FACETIME
// UPDATE 21st MAY 2019
Possibly Clover Configurator now automatically populates correct values for working iMessages when you select an SMBIOS.
After selecting SMBIOS, example iMac19,1 for Aorus Pro with RX580 ( image above ) then go to Apple and ensure you have the "serial number is not valid " message. Done!
If you still have problems connecting to iMessage, test and ensure that AirDrop is working, then follow instructions inside spoiler.
PART 9 – ENABLE TRIM for Solid State Flash Drives
Open Terminal and enter the following command:
sudo trimforce enable
PART 10 – FRAMEBUFFERS FOR RADEON AMD RX580, VEGA CARD's
DEFAULT USB FIX – USB PORTS CONFIGURATION
If you have USBC on Computer Chassis / Case, then SS01 and SS02 is mapped to that USB C port
------------ GUIDE FINISHED YOU SHOULD NOW HAVE WORKING AORUS Z390 PRO HACKINTOSH WITH SSDT USB FIX ------------
OPTIONAL: Set Wi-Fi Country Code
OPTIONAL: System Information - PCI
External USB Storage: Fix "disk did not eject properly" message upon wake from sleep
OPTIONAL: Native Display Brightness - with MonitorControl
OPTIONAL: Dual Boot macOS Mojave & Windows 10
OPTIONAL: Replace the default "About This Mac" Apple Logo with RED AORUS APPLE
OPTIONAL USB PORTS FIX – Create your own SSDT or USBPorts.kext
FRAMEBUFFER PATCHING – For working Intel UHD 630 Graphics, working HDMI Port, working HDMI Audio on Aorus Z390 Pro NOT REQUIRED AS GUIDE IS USING SMBIOS FOR IMAC PRO 1,1
FINAL CUT PRO – Configuration for AMD RX5xx NOT REQUIRED AS GUIDE IS USING SMBIOS FOR IMAC PRO 1,1
AORUS PRO Z390 WIFI version with Intel CNVi – Disable Bluetooth on HS14
Resolve bluetooth issue reported by @eSaF
CLOVER – Updating / Upgrade Clover boot loader (If hack is stable, don't update unless you have problems)
SLEEP – Sleep and Automatic Sleep
SLEEP – Resolving Instant Wake ( Corsair H100i v2 AIO )
WIFI – Clover Hotpatch PXSX to ARPT
RECOMMENDED READING – Excellent Hackintosh Vanilla guide created by CorpNewt with in depth tutorial on Clover.
EFI NON DSDT SMBIOS iMac Pro 1,1 Clover v2.5k r5018
Aorus Pro Z390 EFI - RX580.zip OR Aorus Pro Z390 EFI - Vega-56.zip
EFI FOR SMBIOS iMac 19,1 for use with GPU & IGPU enabled in BIOS
PRE-INSTALL Aorus Pro Z390 EFI - RX580.zip
POST-INSTALL Aorus Pro Z390 EFI - RX580.zip ( Has OsxAptioFix2Drv-free2000.efi ==> recommended reading before use )
EFI FOR INTEL UHD 630 SMBIOS iMAC 18,1
Aorus Pro Z390 EFI - Intel UHD630.zip( Has OsxAptioFix2Drv-free2000.efi ==> recommended reading before use )
By Pedro Diniz
Hello Friends, how are ya?
Could you help me with a problem?
I followed some guides like: https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic ... coffeelake -dsdt /
and the installation of high Sierra 10.13.6 (17G8030) and nvidia webdrivers (correspondent to OS version) went smoothly, the problem starts when I try to boot the GPU.
MOBO: Aorus B360M gaming 3 (rev.1)
CPU: i5 8400
GPU: GTX 1060 OC Galax redblack
Fast boot - disabled
windows 8/10 features - other os
lan pxe - disabled
storage boot option - UEFI
other pci devices - UEFI
Initial display output - PCie 1 slot
Intel's Platform Trust Technology (PTT) - disabled
sata mode selection - AHCI
XHCI hand off - enabled
VT-d - disabled
internal graphics - auto
The problem is:
I can log into the system normally without using my nvidia GPU but when I boot the system with the flags for webdrivers to work I fall into the login screen but it keeps flashing, I can see the mouse and I can move it but the screen flashes and the following error appears when the screen goes "black": IOConsoleUsers: gIOScreenLockState 3, hs 0, bs 0, now 0, sm 0x0. I searched for this error on the internet and tried to solve but to no avail so far.
If someone can help me I would be extremely grateful! thanks in advance!
Clover file attached.
*Update bios/uefi to F7+*
1- Go to M.I.T./Advanced Frequency Settings tab
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.) - Profile 1
2- Go to BIOS tab
CSM Support - Disabled
3- Go to Peripherals/Thunderbolt(TM) Configuration tab
Security Level - No Security
Thunderbolt USB Support - Enabled
GPIO3 Force Pwr - Enabled
4- Go to Chipset tab
Internal Graphics - Enable
*Use this folder with FULL DSDT PATCHED
EFI CLOVER Z390 DESIGNARE.zip
*Use this folder with FULL DSDT PATCHED
EFI OPENCORE Z390 DESIGNARE.zip
---DSDT patch requests is here---
GIGABYTE Z390 DESIGNARE
Intel Core i9-9900K
CORSAIR H100i RGB PLATINUM AIO Liquid CPU Cooler
Corsair CMW32GX4M2C3200C16 Vengeance RGB PRO 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)
MSI RX Vega 64 AIR Boost 8G OC
Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (MZ-V7E1T0BW) NVMe M.2 V-NAND
EVGA Supernova 1000 P2 80+ Platinum, 1000W ECO Mode Fully Modular
TP-Link Archer T9E
Thermaltake Core P5 Tempered Glass Black Edition ATX Open Frame Panoramic Viewing
-FIX ACPI ERRORS -FIX OEM SSDTs to AVOID ERRORS AND WARNINGS -REMOVE UNUSED SCOPES / DEVICES -HIGH PRECISION EVENT TIMER -SATA -DMAC -REMOVE PROBLEMATIC AND UNUSED DEVICES -FIX K.P in REBOOT -SLPB -DARWIN / WINDOWS 2015 -XHCI -PLUGIN TYPE -HDAS to HDEF -HDEF -REAL TIME CLOCK -ARTC -IRQs -SBUS -BUS1 -MCHC -ALS0 -SHUTDOWN -LAN -FWHD -USBX -PMCR -PPMC -XSPI -CNVW -GMM -IMEI -EC -PNLF -ARPT -GFX0 -NVME -DTGP -ACQUIRE MUT0 0XFFFF -MUTEX MUT0 0x00 -EXTERNAL REFERENCES -UNKNOWNOBJ -HDMI / HDAU -FULL RENAMED DEVICES ---SCREENSHOTs---
-Credits and thanks to the old and new people in the community who developed patches, kexts and bootloaders!
Thanks to KGP for SSDT Thunderbolt
Slice, Kabyl, usr-sse2, jadran, Blackosx, dmazar, STLVNUB, pcj, apianti, JrCs, pene, FrodoKenny, skoczy, ycr.ru, Oscar09, xsmile, SoThOr, RehabMan, Download-Fritz, Zenit432, cecekpawon, Intel, Apple, Oracle, Chameleon Team, crazybirdy, Mieze, Mirone, Oldnapalm, netkas, Elconiglio, artut-pt, ErmaC, Pavo, Toleda, Master Chief and family, bcc9, The King, PMheart, Sherlocks, Micky1979, vit9696, vandroiy2013, Voodoo Team, Pike R. Alpha, lvs1974, Austere.J, CVad, Sampath007, onemanosx, erroruser, Jenny David, Olarila Facebook Community, Hackintosh Facebook Community and many others!
We're all here to have fun and learn from each other!