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      Hello folks! As some things are being fixed, we'll keep you updated. Per hour the Forum Rules don't have a dedicated "Tab", so here is the place that we have our Rules back. New Users Lounge > [READ] - InsanelyMac Forum Rules - The InsanelyMac Staff Team. 
Alessandro17

Final thoughts on Windows 8: awful

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personally, i think it is sad that essentially all desktop environments are in the process of being dumbed down. it's all about eye-candy (way more than usual -- just look at address book/ical in lion), big buttons, and facebook/twitter integration. why? i mean i get it on some level, and i am sure a lot of newbies (i.e. my mum, girlfriend, ...) will think it is awesome that everything looks like an iphone homescreen, but what about the power users? at least let me revert back to the "old style" if i so choose (i don't care if it's deeply buried in the registry or only accessible via some random terminal command; if it's there, i will find it).

 

i don't even want to touch lion, let alone mountain lion, because i feel like options are being taken away (what is this automatic versioning business? i'll use git or svn should i really want that. let me choose, dammit) from me and it all rapidly moves towards the lowest common denominator :(

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I don't think this ended up on the front page, even though it is in the Reader News and Rumors forum...

 

Exactly. Which means that I posted as a user, not as the administrator.

 

personally, i think it is sad that essentially all desktop environments are in the process of being dumbed down.

 

Exactly. And for similar reasons I complained about Apple getting rid of the 17" MBP and not really updating the Mac Pro. Apple gives the impression they couldn't care less about their professional users. Which, as many have said, is clearly a mistake. What about business and corporate users, you Microsoft and Apple?

 

Clearly Microsoft and Apple policies are leaving a huge gap behind which, hopefully, somebody is going to fill.

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After trying windows 8 I feel like my computer is supposed to be a tablet. It is horrible, and I'm mad simply because they call it "windows 8" and will push its use on home computers sold, not just tablets. Now I'm stuck having people who will bring computers to me to fix with windows 8 on it, and I say that because no network administrator in their right mind will pick 8 over 7. Now it wouldn't be so bad if they called it Windows 7 tablet or something. Then I wouldn't be so dissatisfied. I love windows, but this is pure stupidity.

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(...) I complained about Apple getting rid of the 17" MBP and not really updating the Mac Pro. (...)

 

i have given up on the mac pro years ago.

 

the MBP i have now (17" 2010) will be my last one. cannot stand lion/mountain lion and they don't even let you fully virtualize snow leopard. not entirely happy about this, since i think apple makes the highest quality laptops out there (what is up with other brand's trackpads?), but here's to hoping i will get another ~3-5 years of use out of this one.

 

in the end, i will most likely end up buying a clevo and run all productivity apps (creative suite, maya, ...) under windows 7, while my basic terminal/browsing needs will be taken care of by snow leopard in conjunction with vmware workstation.

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I don't know yet what I'll do when eventually it will be time to replace mine (early 2011), but I'll use it at least until my AppleCare expires, so there is at least a couple of years yet.

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I don't know yet what I'll do when eventually it will be time to replace mine (early 2011), but I'll use it at least until my AppleCare expires, so there is at least a couple of years yet.

Well, I think that knowing me I'll end up biting the bullet. I personally had several upgrading struggles:

 

10.4 to 10.5: I used the Classic environment all the time (Photoshop, some old games, and other applications), and I really didn't want to part with it. With my reliance on Classic, it was hard, but after Snow came out and then (PPC) Tiger apps were fading away (especially the G3 compatible ones), I had to bite the bullet and use Leopard (on my dad's G4 eMac since my G3 iMac couldn't take it). Eventually I lost my reliance on the Classic environment, and today I almost never run an OS 9 app, and when I do I use SheepShaver now. (I haven't even touched an OS 9 app in at least 6 months...)

 

10.5 to 10.6: This was the transfer from PPC to Intel (eMac to hackintosh) for me. There were just not enough PPC support anymore, forcing me to go to Intel-based. What was hard about that was some PPC apps didn't run right under Rosetta, and some other strange compatibility problems that I can't even remember anymore, but this was by far the easiest switch (once I actually got my hack working right with QE/CI and sound :P).

 

10.6 to 10.7: Loss of PPC apps was devastating. I relied on Rosetta, and used enough PPC apps to make someone jump back with fright (OK, maybe not that bad...but close :P). Eventually, I upgraded most of my PPC apps to Intel, and the ones that had no Intel version I found substitutes for. Slowly but surely, I got my computer to the point where I could upgrade to Lion. Why did I want Lion? Mainly Auto-save, Resume, and better app compatibility on the App Store. I didn't care about Launchpad and full screen apps that much, but I must admit that I use both regularly now.

 

Basically my point is I think that our needs will eventually shift and at that point the switch (of OSes) won't be so difficult. And, about hardware life-span (speaking of Macs here), both me and my parents use Macs from '06 (parents a 2.16 GHz 20" iMac, me a 2.0 GHz black MacBook), and they meet our needs just fine! Before that my parents used one of the original "Life-savers" iMacs from '99! Guaranteed there are many more intense tasks that I use my hack for, but the MacBook works great. Both hack and Mac run Lion now, too. :)

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What is the actual version of Windows 8? Windows 7 version is 6.1, and this version info dates all the way back from the NT days, since that is the kernel that windows is based on now. Windows 7 (6.1) seemed to be a "Oops, Vista was total trash, lets fix the stability and rebrand it as Windows 7" kinda move. Don't get me wrong, I skipped Vista all together and am happy with Win7. I'm just curious if this is version 6.2... or worse - 6.1.1

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Win 8 works great. I have it together with Lion and Mountain Lion, all in the same computer. Best of two worlds if you ask me. Win 8 is the best Win so far, works a little like os x. Everything just worked no BS with drivers and stuff it just worked.

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From what I've seen in ~20min Youtube "consumer preview" version review, I may only conclude that the main "newness" of W8 was adding Metro UI bell and whistles from Windows smartphones. Not much been told (in that particular review at least) about what changes were made to OS as a computer (not smartphone) OS. In other words, is the main purpose of Windows 8 to make PC OS look more familiar to Windows smartphones users or is it to make Windows yet better OS for PC?

 

The purpose is to have an integrated experience between desktop, tablet, and phone. An app written for Windows Phone 8 should be easy to compile and run on a tablet or desktop. Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 share the same NT kernel.

 

Metro is sweet on a phone. MSFT came up with something very good there. The Metro live tiles are great too... when they work. I've been sticking to the MSFT apps because their Metro tiles seem to update the most reliably. It is nice just to look at the home screen and at a glance you can see weather and email/messaging notifications. The people hub is nice. Facebook, IM, and twitter all in one place. You select someone and you can see all the different tweets, IMs, texts, and FB messages you've exchanged recently.

 

Why have desktop designers gone totally mad? From KDE4 (and no, the problem wasn't just that the first release wasn't ready) to Gnome 3 to Windows 8, all total, hopeless {censored}. Fortunately somebody forked Gnome and created Mate, now the only decent desktop between the ones mentioned above.

 

Aaron Seigo, Gnome and Windows devs, do you hear me? Most people want to do some real work with their computers, not play with crazy concepts.

 

I have my doubts about Windows 8. I don't think it will be a Vista, but I don't have a compelling reason to get it... well the cheap upgrade price is nice. I will probably be suckered into getting it based on price. Not sure about ditching Win 7 though. My machine is creaking under the weight of operating systems. I have Win 7, OS X 10.6, 7 and 8 all installed. At least with OS X you can install it on a small partition on an external drive so you never really have to truly cut the cord. I'm not too thrilled at the prospect of adding another operating system to the mix.

 

Anyway I think most people's needs are fairly limited so they will get along fine with Win 8... after they figure out where stuff like the shutdown option is. Man that was frustrating.

 

 

What about Apple? Their next release, Mountain Lion, seems still usable, even with the iOS-fication it is undergoing.

But Apple has gone mad with their hardware. 15" MacBooks Pro with retina display can cost up to 3000 Euro!

What do you get in return? A locked-down laptop, you can't add RAM or replace the Flash storage (a miserly 256GB on the "base" model).

The 17" one, clearly the most "professional" one, has been discontinued.

And what about the Mac Pro? It hasn't been really updated, now you get slightly higher specs, same old components, for more, in Europe.

 

Apple, why do you hate your professional users so much?

Soon nobody will develop for you any longer. This is your missed opportunity to take users away from Windows.

 

Apple's issues are software and hardware related. The iOSification is a disturbing trend. And the elimination of "pro" hardware is very concerning. The mac pro line is so outdated. The retina display Macbook pro news pretty much wrote that device off for me. There is no way I would buy a laptop that I couldn't upgrade the ram and SSD in myself. That apple ram is a rip off. I priced out some ram for a friend. I could double their RAM for $30. Apple wanted HUNDREDS! Yeah. No thanks.

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Apple's issues are software and hardware related. The iOSification is a disturbing trend. And the elimination of "pro" hardware is very concerning. The mac pro line is so outdated. The retina display Macbook pro news pretty much wrote that device off for me. There is no way I would buy a laptop that I couldn't upgrade the ram and SSD in myself. That apple ram is a rip off. I priced out some ram for a friend. I could double their RAM for $30. Apple wanted HUNDREDS! Yeah. No thanks.

Although I agree with you, I think it is important to note that you can upgrade the SSDs in the Retina MBP That you cannot is a myth that has been going 'round the 'net. You can upgrade the SSDs with the similar "sticks" like the late model Airs; here's an example: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012

 

And for RAM, although Apple horrendously overcharges for HW upgrades, you do also have to remember that they do solder the RAM in and not just pop in a stick...although even with that it should only be maybe $100 or $120 instead of hundreds...

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i remove this win 8 yesterday, it causing crash and freeze a lot, not very stable for work, especially design :)

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Win 8 works great. I have it together with Lion and Mountain Lion, all in the same computer. Best of two worlds if you ask me. Win 8 is the best Win so far, works a little like os x. Everything just worked no BS with drivers and stuff it just worked.

 

i remove this win 8 yesterday, it causing crash and freeze a lot, not very stable for work, especially design :)

 

Interesting!

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Although I agree with you, I think it is important to note that you can upgrade the SSDs in the Retina MBP That you cannot is a myth that has been going 'round the 'net. You can upgrade the SSDs with the similar "sticks" like the late model Airs; here's an example: http://eshop.macsale...Pro_Retina_2012

 

Good to know, but I would prefer to just be able to buy a universal off the shelf solution at a competitive price. A custom stick sold at a premium kind of sucks.

 

And for RAM, although Apple horrendously overcharges for HW upgrades, you do also have to remember that they do solder the RAM in and not just pop in a stick...although even with that it should only be maybe $100 or $120 instead of hundreds...

 

Yes maybe on the new Retina MBPs but I was refering to the old MBPs. All I had to do was remove some screws on the bottom of the laptop and pop in two memorry sticks. $30 and <30 mins for a total noob. That should not cost hundreds.

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Yes maybe on the new Retina MBPs but I was refering to the old MBPs. All I had to do was remove some screws on the bottom of the laptop and pop in two memorry sticks. $30 and

Good heavens, if Apple charges hundreds for standard little sticks of RAM...good thing we don't have to buy groceries from them! :|

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Trying to get support for Windows 8 on a Mac forum (including OSx86) is like trying to make friends in Wrigley Field wearing a White Sox cap. Good luck.

 

BTW - A workaround app has already been made to allow you to boot to classic desktop mode and bypass the UI formerly known as Metro. I'm sure that whatever Microsoft didn't choose to do that people really want, a third-party developer will quickly do. I suspect there will be other apps similar to this one which may improve on this.

 

http://www.howtogeek.com/118258/login-to-windows-8-desktop-mode-automatically-with-classicstarter-downloads/

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This app allows you to boot to classic desktop mode automatically, but it is still Windows 8. Where is the start menu?

So you can find a few utilities which can replicate the classic start menu: http://reviews.cnet....-windows-8-rtm/

And another one: http://www.stardock....roducts/start8/

 

Having said that Windows 8 has more bugs than I care to mention.

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Just FYI, I installed Windows 8 RTM, believing I would use it on my work laptop so that I could get used to it. It worked fine for an hour or two. After that, I got some error about not being able to find the boot device. Thereafter, it would not boot up no matter what fixes I tried (Fix boot, Fix MbR, RebuildBCD, etc.) I ended up having to reinstall Win 7 from scratch and reinstall all my programs. I don't know for sure, but from my experience, Win 8 may not yet be ready for prime time.

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For years I have been a Beta tester for M$ as well as a certified partner and a technet retail member and during that time I have learned many important lessions. One of the most important lessions that I have learned is that just because somthing is new DOES NOT mean it is better. Only better is better! I told M$ that W8 was a horrible experience and that they should not attempt to make an OS similar to iOS and Android. IMHO the true creators that were inspiring the future of OSes have been replaced by market trend watchers and accountants.

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Win 8 works great. I have it together with Lion and Mountain Lion, all in the same computer. Best of two worlds if you ask me. Win 8 is the best Win so far, works a little like os x. Everything just worked no BS with drivers and stuff it just worked.

 

Totally untrue. Even if Windows 8 was OK from every other point of view, most games which worked just fine in Windows 7, don't work in Windows 8. From simple open source games to complex modern games. So I don't understand how anybody could say "Everything just worked no BS with drivers and stuff it just worked."

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Totally untrue. Even if Windows 8 was OK from every other point of view, most games which worked just fine in Windows 7, don't work in Windows 8. From simple open source games to complex modern games. So I don't understand how anybody could say "Everything just worked no BS with drivers and stuff it just worked."

 

I can say I do not agree with the driver part as I never rely on Microsoft for my drivers... however as for games I have had 0 issues with any of my old games that people claim have issues. Mass Effect 2 had "issues" with 7 and major "issues" with 8 which I have seen none of for example. What games have you had issues with?

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I use it alongside OSX. In fact, inside OSX, since it runs 24/7 on a Parallels VM, for which i recently dedicated a spare 17" monitor i have, and i must say i agree with Rampage, and even more with starobrn1: it's the best Windows ever released, despite the fact the shrinking PC market will probably make it not so bright a success for Microsoft. About compatibility, one thing i found very good is the fact it mostly warns about, but let run, drivers and applications that lack compatibility for it - such as my good old VX3000 and the cheapo Ralink USB network adapter i have - and they mostly run fine. That's something i'd love Apple followed.

 

All the best.

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