bofors Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 While, certainly, there is a utopian possibility that Apple will change their EULA to allow users to freely modify the OS (Why would they do that, tell me?), it is far more likely that the license will remain in place as it is right now, which does not permit any modifications to the product - the use of which Apple only licenses to you. The issue here is the enforceability of the EULA, this is hardly settled in the USA and will not be until the Surpreme Court hears such a case. Furthermore, it would appear that the EULA is not enforceable in numerous jurisdictions with the USA. The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court that the case is heard in. Most courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license have found them to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C. Step-Saver (939 F.2d 91)—see, for instance, Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd. (at harvard.edu) and Rich, Mass Market Software and the Shrinkwrap License (23 Colo. Law 1321.17). A minority of courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license is valid and enforceable: see ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg (at findlaw.com), Microsoft v. Harmony Computers (846 F. Supp. 208, 212, E.D.N.Y. 1994), and Novell v. Network Trade Center (at harvard.edu).The 7th Circuit and 8th Circuit subscribe to the "license" and "not sold" arguments, while most other circuits do not. In addition, the contracts' enforceability depends on whether the state has passed Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act (UCITA) or Anti-UCITA (UCITA Bomb Shelter) laws. In Anti-UCITA states, the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) has been amended to either specifically define software as a good (thus making it fall under the UCC), or to disallow contracts which specify that the terms of contract are subject to the laws of a state that's passed UCITA. Recently, publishers have begun to encrypt their software packages to make it impossible for a user to install the software without agreeing to the license or violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and foreign counterparts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EULA Of course, we should expect the EU to be more liberal with customer's rights and most less developed jurisdictions to totally ignore something like a EULA (or copyright for that matter). But, let's go one further step down the track of reality (as harsh and unpleasant as it may seem), but why exactly would you be able to 'lawfully purchae a copy of Apple's OSx86"? Currently, the only reason you can currently purchase OS X as a consumer product, in stores, is in order to provide earlier an upgrade path to earlier users of OS X, on older platforms (2-3 years old, but usually being cut-off at 2 years). The first intel based Macs will be shipping (or, 'available') on June 6th, 2006, during MacWorld - these will all have OSx86 included, and pre-installed (as is common). This will hypothetically be OS X 10.5 (Leopard), which is the first REAL version of OS X to support the intel platform. Since there will be no 'older' Macs out there on intel, needing OS X 10.5 (the intel variant), there is absolutely no reason for Apple to ship a copy of OS X that supports intel, as a consumer porduct. Mind you, there will be tons of legacy PowerPC users that want to upgrade to 10.5 - but those upgrade kits have no practical and reasonable need to support intel processors, now would they? You seem to be ignoring a few facts here. To begin with, the first x86 Macs will be shipping with Tiger (OS X 10.4). We know this because Steve made it plain that they will be released "before" the 2006 World Wide Developer Conference and that Leopard (OS X 10.5) will not be released until late 2006. So, we certainly can expect OSx86 to be availible for public purchase next year. Next, let's consider the implication of the fact that the actually Dev. Kit Install DVD is itself "universal," i.e. it will install OS X on both x86 and PPC architectures. Why would Apple do that? There really is only one good answer to this question, Apple plans on having only one OS X install DVD next year, not two. So, I think that by the time x86 are actually released, the version of Tiger that people can buy off the shelf, might be a "universal" version. Of course, this also might not be the case until Leopard arrives either. Finally, you seem to be missing the big picture here. With respect to OS X, Apple does not have a problem with people unlawfully running it and if Apple did they certainly could take the minium steps of using a serial number and requiring internet registration to activate OS X, as Microsoft does Windows. No, Apple's real problem with OS X is market share. If people want to buy a copy of OS X and run it unsupported on their PC, ultimately Apple should not have a problem with that because it helps them gain market share, which I think this switch to x86 is really all about (not integer performance per watt or Intel glorious roadmap). I mean, so far we have not heard a peep from Apple Legal about this site or related activities, and I would have expected at least some kind of "cease and desist" letter by now. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkdruid Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I bought those parts. THey come on thurs... will report on success or not. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frhack Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Can someone suggest supported PCI-to-FireWire controllers (for mactel on ASRock P4Dual-915GL) ? thanks frank p.s. According to newegg the mobo seem an ATX mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813157075 But it's a Micro ATX: http://www.asrock.com/product/product_P4Dual-915GL.htm Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0atbutt Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I am very close to buying all of these parts, but before I do, does anyone have that exact configuration and have it running flawlessly? Any help? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
glum Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Okay, i bought mobo to, but with an exception in CPU, which in my case is: Intel Pentium 4E 3200 MHz 1 MB cache. Everything will arive tomorrow. I will post my results ASAP . Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcibiades Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 People commonly don't understand this. They will never be able to prevent installation of the OS on non-Apple hardware just by conditions of sale. This is not because EULAs are not enforceable - they often are, depending on what they say. It is not because of copyright - this only stops illegal copying. It is because conditions of sale which restrain post sale use are unenforceable, whether they are in a EULA or in any other sort of contract. The reason is, it is anti-competitive. So, MS cannot stop you running Office under Wine, regardless of what the EULA says. They also cannot stop you moving your Windows installation from one machine to another, similarly. GM cannot stop you using after market tires, stereos and so on. Gilette cannot make you use its blades in its razors, or stop other people making blades for its razors. Apple can stop you making illegal copies of X, and they can make it technically impossible to run X on non-Apple hardware. But they cannot stop you, simply by conditions of sale, from running a purchased copy of X on the hardware of your choice. Nor can they stop people making hardware and advertising it as 'X ready'. This suggests that one of two things will happen. First, they may release X to run on generic hardware. This will be a true revolution for them. I doubt they have the guts. They would have to get the costs out and compete. Second, they may implement draconian measures like product activation and DRM to stop this. This is the most likely way. As a friend of mine said: no management team ever changes a failing strategy voluntarily. I don't think these guys will. But, we will see.... Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xptek Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Sound and networking working with this? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintac Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 The list:Case $9.95: http://www.buypcdirect.com/product.asp?pf_id=cas-ge-lp600 Motherboard $52.99: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813157075 Processor $60.77: http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=CELE-315BX&src=fr 512 RAM $38.00: http://store.yahoo.com/pcmemory-stores/25pc26stoemf.html 20 Gigabyte HD $25.95: http://www.etech4sale.com/hardware/partinfo-id-1852.html DVD Drive $12.00: http://www.compuvest.com/Description.jsp?iid=107882 Total: $199.66 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, what you can see here is the new new Mac Mini. Just cur some pci slots, make an µATX mainboard, one DIMM for DDR, and here it is. Perhaps, Apple will take a slithtly newer chipset. The graphic card is perfect for OSX. It has everything needed: QE, Core-Graphics/Image/Video (2D and 3D acceleration) Of course, some TCPA chip will be on the mainboard, 40GB harddrive as standard, perhaps some 2,5" 5400rpm, 8MB drive, 512MB RAM, perhaps DDR2, because in one year that one will be cheaper than DDR 1, with Combo drive as standard, perhaps airport builtin and bluetouth for the higher models What will we pay for it ? 499€ for it So let´s see what apple will present us in about one year. Kin Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaffyDuck Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I'm sure Leopard will be released with fat binary files. Otherwise maintaining and supporting of several code bases will be a nightmare for Apple. All of Apple's stuff had always been in the format of Fat Binary files -- you must mean 'Universal Binaries'? They would not be separate code bases, as they are simply different distributions of the same code-base... something Apple is already doing with the disks shipping with the newer G5s and the iMac G5. You see, none of what Apple is planning on doing on doing is either a departure from the norm, or in any way 'new'. All the pieces have been in place for a long time. Even if Leopard is released as Universal Binaries, if Apple's stated goal is to not allow Mac OS X on non-Apple machines, they will have a more effective hardware protection scheme in place by then -- and a license, just as the present one, that will not allow tinkering with the product. Notwithstanding mindless diatribes about the philosophical 'rights' of licenses, Apple certainly cannot enforce any such licensing, besides going legally after those selling or otherwise profiting from distribution (and, undoubtedly, there will be a couple of idiots that will get caught for their greed and stupidity) - but at the same time, the number of people that are going to willingly jump through the hoops of patching and installing a hacked OS X will be relatively small, and certainly, no one will be able to commercially exploit such a thing (though, some will try - see above). On the other hand, despite Apple's 'controversial' legal sabre rattling with several (idiot) rumors sites, do note that their strategy has been successful -- the number of rumors circulating, or reliably being distributed, have been reduced to nearly zero. Likewise, if Apple strategically shoots a couple of shots in front of hobbyist sites, they will dramatically reduce the number of sites (and more will spring up, as time passes) dealing with OS X hacks. Yes, right now, it may serve Apple well to allow the beast out in the wild, but at one point it will need to get reigned in (lest it shows voluntary restraint, which I don't see happening). Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaffyDuck Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Second, they may implement draconian measures like product activation and DRM to stop this. This is the most likely way. Unlikely - Apple has repeatedly assured that such measures will never happen to Macintosh. Generally, Apple can be trusted with such statements. Neither product activation, nor DRM are foolproof - personally, I feel a far better method is hardware signature, and subsequently marrying the installation to the hardware (i.e. it can only run on Apple hardware, not uniquely *your* hardware) As a friend of mine said: no management team ever changes a failing strategy voluntarily. I don't think these guys will. But, we will see.... I fail to see where you are jumping at the conclusion that Apple's management team has a failing strategy - care to elaborate? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 All of Apple's stuff had always been in the format of Fat Binary files -- you must mean 'Universal Binaries'? "Fat" binaries are the same thing as "Universal" binaries, Apple calls "Univeral" what NeXT called "Fat". Both of these terms refer to a single file that effectively contains binaries for multiple architectures, and clearly this is new for Apple. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido420 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Okay, i bought mobo to, but with an exception in CPU, which in my case is: Intel Pentium 4E 3200 MHz 1 MB cache. Everything will arive tomorrow. I will post my results ASAP . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did as well.... I got the MOBO from NewEgg and eBay for the CPU. However my day job is testing HW any way. My Lab CPUs are right here so I will just have to put it thru the paces until my Cely shows up. Keep up the good work guys and girls. Peace Out! Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido420 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I did as well.... I got the MOBO from NewEgg and eBay for the CPU. However my day job is testing HW any way. My Lab CPUs are right here so I will just have to put it thru the paces until my Cely shows up. Keep up the good work guys and girls. Peace Out! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Success!!!! I just ripped open this ASRock Mobo and installed a 3.2E P4, 512MB ECC, and the DD' d drive. Booted Right Up!!!!! Thanks To All.... I would say snap one up....for the price!!! Will get back to you with test results later. Peace Out Guido Medford, OR USA Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElementWithin Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I just told Mashugly about this on IRC so I'll post it here because it's funny as hell. Consider that it's a $199.66 PC that can run OSx86 - now consider that with a slight modification the price could come down and you could boost the CPU speed by almost 700 MHz. How? Check it: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...79398&CatId=191 After rebates that package is $49.99 and includes a mobo that you could keep as a spare but it's got a Celeron D running at 2.93 GHz - that's the kicker to this deal. Of course you'd have to put out $129.99 for the thing first then get the rebates (hopefully) but... It would bring the cost of the "Hackintosh" down about another $12 roughly... soooo... Funny stuff we're working on, ain't it? Have fun, always... bb <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting. I might buy that. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matiz Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hello, I've written the tiger image using method 2a from Vinc0r's Guide to a unformated harddrive using a Windows PC and the dd tool, but the OSX is not booting. Hardware used: - Asrock 775Dual-915GL - 80 GB Samsung IDE Drive During startup the bios reports "Detecting third IDE master....". S-ATA is disabled in the Bios. When the machine is trying to boot it hangs, the number "0078" appears in the right corner, the light of the harddisk is on and nothing happens. Any idea what to do? Thanks! Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkdruid Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I bought those parts. THey come on thurs... will report on success or not. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, parts came sooner than expected. Booted up WAY faster. Video works great - no video glitches.. I can pick high resolutions. fading now looks nice. Ethernet and sound both work. Itunes works. It's a TINY mobo too. So if you buy one of those slim cases you should be in great shape. I had one lying around - so I got everything working for very cheap. Great find dude. I'm happy with my purchase. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matiz Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 It's a TINY mobo too. So if you buy one of those slim cases you should be in great shape. I had one lying around - so I got everything working for very cheap. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Cool! Can you please tell me which boot settings and type of harddrive you use? Is your Bios also reporting "Detecting third IDE Master..." when it initializes your boot disk? Thank you. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
glum Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 This mobo did not work for me as expected . It shares only 8mb to video memory, and osx says that QE is not supported. How much video memory does your bios share to video (you can see the amount in bios), what version of bios do you have and how much RAM do you have (what type)? Thx. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matiz Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 This mobo did not work for me as expected . It shares only 8mb to video memory, and osx says that QE is not supported. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But it seems that your OSX86 booted properly! Can you please tell me which boot settings and type of harddrive you use? Is your Bios also reporting "Detecting third IDE Master..." when it initializes your boot disk? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaffyDuck Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 "Fat" binaries are the same thing as "Universal" binaries, Apple calls "Univeral" what NeXT called "Fat". Both of these terms refer to a single file that effectively contains binaries for multiple architectures, and clearly this is new for Apple. If you say so -- I guess the specifically defined 'Fat Binaries' that we have been creating since the 90s in order to provide PPC/68k programs are, geologically speaking, a new thing -- but to Apple, this has been pretty much old hat for the past 10 years. If you are referencing to code written to accomodate the intel transition, then those are refered to as 'Universal Binaries'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_binary It wasn't NeXT that called them 'Fat' first, as you implied. Geez, get it right, please! Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
glum Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 But it seems that your OSX86 booted properly! Can you please tell me which boot settings and type of harddrive you use? Is your Bios also reporting "Detecting third IDE Master..." when it initializes your boot disk? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It says nothing about detecting third ide mater. I am using two IDE drives (no cdrom). both my ide harddisks are IBM 60 GB, set to 'cable select' with jumpers. mac osx boots fine, network works, i can change resolutions, but QE is not supported ;(. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matiz Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 It says nothing about detecting third ide mater. I am using two IDE drives (no cdrom). both my ide harddisks are IBM 60 GB, set to 'cable select' with jumpers. mac osx boots fine, network works, i can change resolutions, but QE is not supported ;(. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm..... can you please tell me your Bios settings? Is the S-ATA controller enabled? Thanks! Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkdruid Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Cool! Can you please tell me which boot settings and type of harddrive you use? Is your Bios also reporting "Detecting third IDE Master..." when it initializes your boot disk? Thank you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Havent looked in the bios - will later. My bios shows zero text when it boots... black screen until darwin bootloader appears. My HD is a WD 160GB IDE drive. I took it out of my P4 1.6A and just plugged it in - already had osx so it booted right up. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksio Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Is there someone with the 200$ Mac can do a speed test, to see how fast it is against my iBook G4 1Ghz ? It will help me to considere if it is interesting to buy... Thanks Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnniecarcinogen Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 This mobo did not work for me as expected . It shares only 8mb to video memory, and osx says that QE is not supported. How much video memory does your bios share to video (you can see the amount in bios), what version of bios do you have and how much RAM do you have (what type)? Thx. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> how did you install OSx86? to take full advantage of having supported hardware I would use a rosetta only patched pheNIX dvd. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/274-build-your-own-mac-for-199/page/2/#findComment-2937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts