Jump to content
Swad

Software Piracy

287 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

comical subject here how many that come to these forums are running a stolen system be it osx windows or whatever ?????????? let alone anything else stolen. When you look at how some big players license there software and the prices they charge its no wonder they get ripped off bigtime christ you just need to look at how MS is licensing vista just now , anyway for some its not stealing its try before you buy sort of deal lmao

 

 

Actually, some of us are real Apple developers using MacOS legitimately on our PC hardware.

 

I'm not.

 

But some of us are.

 

:thumbsup_anim:

 

I mostly disagree with software theft, but, like copying CDs, it's pretty unavoidable and most people do it. It's just too tempting. Think about it though, in the past 'video recording' of TV programmes at home was technically considered infringement of copyright... things change and so does perception of 'ownership' and 'theft'.

 

Someone here argued that stealing an app from Office World or wherever was much worse than downloading a cracked copy from the internet. It could be considered exactly the same thing, though you obviously have more chance of getting caught and prosecuted and shamed if you rob from the store!

 

Myself, I've always used copied and hacked OS's to try out for a while, and then usually bought them. I got Windows 95 with my first PC, used a hacked trial copy of Windows 98, eventually bought Windows 98SE, legally used an MSDN copy of 2000 provided by my employer, bought Me 'cos it was dead cheap in a bargain bin in 2001, messed around with XP Pro RC1, eventually bought XP Home, which I currently am still using, er..., as well as a 'naughty' copy of Media Center 2005.

 

I had a 20" Intel iMac for a while, and though initially impressed with the OS I decided the non-upgradeable hardware, pretty though it was, just wasn't worth the money I paid for it, so 6 months after purchase I sold it, happily at only a 15-20% loss!

 

Since then I built myself an Intel Core 2 Duo gaming/media machine that knocks the spots off the iMac but for half the price... I don't regret it, though miss it's serene aesthetic beauty.

 

BUT... I have been really missing Garageband and I don't get on with any other PC music apps in quite the same way. So I got me a 10.4.6 JAS release DVD of OSx86 so I can make some music. Do I feel bad?

 

Well, put it this way, not really. If I could buy a retail version of MacOS X and install it on my PC without issue, then I would (especially as I'd get the educational discount as I'm working for a university). And there was me thinking that Big Brother Bill was against choice... the way Apple overcharge you for most hardware and try and cream every last penny out of you by locking you into their products is quite amazing really!

 

However, I have bought a proper retail boxed copy of iLife '06, because I want to run Garageband. It's just such a great piece of software and worth the cost of the whole suite on it's own. Now, if they only made that for the PC then I wouldn't be bothering with any of this OSx86 shenanigans!

 

When it comes to other software, I'm legally running Office, Photoshop and a few other bits and pieces on my PC at home thanks to my University's home use licensing option for it's employees.

 

I always buy games as they are not too expensive, though always use 'grey-area-legal' no-cd/dvd cracks to avoid having to put the original disk in every time I want to play a game. However, after a while I often copy the disks and sell them on, usually when bored of the game. Is that so bad? Hmmmm...

 

I have used a lot of shareware/donation-ware, and even occasionally parted with a few Paypal bucks to help out, though not as a rule. I do feel bad about that, as homebrew developers should have all the support they can get, more so than mega-corps like Microshaft and Apple.

 

However, before I get sanctimonius, there is a lot of software I've used that is pirated, especially 'industry standard' stuff like video editing, graphics and multimedia apps. I couldn't have done a lot of the work I've done in the past as a freelancer if I didn't have it. But I just couldn't afford to pay the hundreds, nay thousands that they often ask for such packages. Nowadays I earn enough not to worry too much about spending some cash on software (though UK£150 is usually the limit!).

 

I must admit that I did start to download the iLife'06 torrent. Naughty yes, but I saw the error of my ways when I realised the hassle of 2 days dealing with slow seeders and crappy ISP disconnections was not worth it, not when I could pick up Garageband with a whole cool suite of apps for UK£55 from a local store ... though I eventually got it for £30 on eBay :rolleyes:

 

Hmmm... iMovie doesn't work though. It crashes to the desktop when I try to import a movie. Doh!

 

Damn that Steve Jobs and his insistence that you do everything Apple!

Edited by martianrobot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement

I do not support piracy but since I'm only 13 years old and my family didn't graduate from High school, we can't afford software like Windows Xp, Photoshop, Dreamweaver. But, when I graduate from high school, I am sure to pay for all my software because developers deserve the money, I am learning how to program in c++ and I can tell how much hard work they put into Operating Systems and programs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have yet to meet an individual who has actually purchased Adobe Photoshop. Why is that?

 

Actually, believe it or not. My cousin, who is a professional animator and graphics designer is legally running it on his powerbook g4. Of course, it is owned by the company he works for, but he is legally running it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not support piracy but since I'm only 13 years old and my family didn't graduate from High school, we can't afford software like Windows Xp, Photoshop, Dreamweaver. But, when I graduate from high school, I am sure to pay for all my software because developers deserve the money, I am learning how to program in c++ and I can tell how much hard work they put into Operating Systems and programs.

haha im 16 and i definitely cant afford to pay for software either but saying that you are gonna pay back the developers is just a lie. thats the truth, same with music. i wish i could afford it and i will buy cds when i get a job but there is no way i will be able to "pay back" the developers i once stole from. cmon guys we gotta be keepin' it real around here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When it comes to the "tons-o'-money" programs (photoshop, final cut, etc), i cant afford it, so i use it, but at no personal financial benefit. but i do pay for software for many small developers who get paid by the registration fee, not like the devs that work for adobe who get paid regardless of how many sell.

 

while some of my software is pirated, many apps are paid for, because they are worth the few bucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But still, did you pay for iLife, prices at a very reasonable $80? Or iWork, which should be $50, but is also priced at $80? Or (if you play games) Warcraft, which is about $26?

 

Those are pretty dang cheap in terms of commercialized products, but many who steal on the basis of "it's too expensive" will also steal those kinds of items also, thus completely negating their argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When it comes to the "tons-o'-money" programs (photoshop, final cut, etc), i cant afford it, so i use it, but at no personal financial benefit. but i do pay for software for many small developers who get paid by the registration fee, not like the devs that work for adobe who get paid regardless of how many sell.

 

while some of my software is pirated, many apps are paid for, because they are worth the few bucks.

 

 

The productivity software being pirated is something the developers don't really mind at the home user level. Adobe/Autodesk does not expect any graphics arts student to pay $1-2K, in fact they want these people to have access to the software (freely) so they can master it. If these 'future employees' so to speak master the software, more and more companies would be willing to buy that particular software (instead of an alternative) as it means higher productivity from the employees they pay $2K each month as opposed to not buying that software and saving $1K over the course of a year or two. Companies (especially in a particular field) are also an easy target for inspection of pirated software so most of them would rather pay $10K instead of risking a $50K fine and loss of their reputation/licence.

 

The alternative scenario would be that we all wouldn't use Photoshop or Studio Max and use free alternatives. As more and more people download and use the free alternatives, they will gather more attention and subsequently more attention from developers. Tons of people will be helping with development, donating money, distributing the software and promoting it (as is the case with many free software out there with loyal support from their community base - have you ever seen a gentoo user pimping that distro, overwhelming is an understatement) to a point that it will be noticed by some large company who will hire more developers to improve the software and come up with a commercial version of it that's going to be sold to business users and regular version (perhaps the only difference being support) that will be used by the home users. A recent example to this, although a slightly different one, would be Novell acquiring SuSE Linux and developing SLE and OpenSuSE.

 

It's a different kind of game these people are playing out there, almost a bit like the dealer hooking some kid up with free drugs knowing he will come back for more and he will pay in cash point being that the eventual outcome is for the benefit of the company while at first it may seem like they are suffering a loss. The reason that these companies are industry leaders is becaue the industry is full of people who knows how to operate with their software and who can operate efficiently with it. There wouldn't be a point in buying some expensive software only to find out a handful of people can operate with it (due to lack of access by many others) therefore having to pay the big bucks just to employ a worker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also wanted to give my 2c to this discussion.

 

I think piracy is a 2 bladed sword. On the one hand it is a great way for a user to explore new things and get experince on the other it is stealing of the developers money. But I think steal is the wrong word. Many ppl in high positions today have learned their skills with pirated software, I doubt any of the 16 year old Photoshop artists have learned their skilsl with a legal version of it.

 

The same goes for me if I think about Osx86. It is a great way for some ppl to explore the unknow realm of this incredible genius OS. I am happy about how many ppl switched from Hacki to a real Mac and how many were more than lucky with it. On the other hand I am really sad that some ppl use OSx for their all day use and just pirate ift for their own, soemtimes even commercial advantages.

 

To short discribe my position:

 

personal copys = ok

commercial = burn them!

 

with the slight addition, if you really like some software, goddman BYU it. And especially for you guys here on the forum, if you like OSx and can affort a Mac buy one. If not maybe support them by buying smaller things.

 

Thanks for listening :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say the only way for me is the pirated way :D !!

I do not see the point to buy a original Photoshop nor a Corel Drwaw. I mean look at the price of it. My computer costs 700 $ and the Photoshop costs 700 $ and Corel Draw even more.

I see no point to buy software what i will use only few times a week........

:D monopolists !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ggx, you'd be on the opposite end if you got served from Adobe, etc about said stolen software. In fact, I'm surprised no company has found this thread yet (and don't worry, I won't be the one to turn anyone in)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it doesn't hurt anyone if you only copy stuff you would definitly not buy even if you couldn't copy it (due to high price mostly.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't copy software, just as a matter of principle.

 

I usually find that if I can't afford it, There's an open source equivalent that will serve my needs as much as I need them to.

 

Gimp v photoshop,

Rosegarden v Garageband/Logic/Cubase,

Jahshaka v iMovie,

Firefox v Opera,

Linux v Windows Mobile,

Open(Neo)Office v Office, JustWrite, Abiword, Lotus, Corel,

 

 

I'm currently in the process of BUYING software for my osX86 box, haven't made it to a proper store yet but I've picked up a cheap utility or two that serve me well. To be honest, the open source applications tend to be as functional as anyone would sensibly need. Occasionally there are features that certain professionals and semi-proffessionals require that are only found in commercial software, and they have the money to pay for it and that's good.

 

Of course in the case of OS X itself I have no choice. I buy licenses for what I install it on, but I still break the terms of those licenses installing it but again: no choice. It works on my AppleMacs, but my Applemacs don't have a Wacom integrated into the screen, Fingerprint and Smartcard security, Integrated SDHC, A standard VGA-Out, a decent trackpad (If I can't live with the Keyboard/Mouse, it breaks a portable for me), Hardware Audio In/Out sockets, and IRDA.

 

Not even the Modbook provides my needs and so I have No Choice but to use the OS I need on the hardware I need regardless of the licensing.

 

Read my signature and the Hardware thread, I haven't GOT all the support I need from OS X yet but it's getting closer by the day. . .

 

Despite the long list of red there, it comes down primarily to three drivers to enable almost everything on this sytem.

 

The Wacom.

The PCI-E.

The Display.

 

Of course a few odds and ends will remain, such as the button panel, keymap, Autorotate and ~possibly~ Smart Card. . . But hey, It's only a matter of a few more hours hacking.

 

In the 1997 Macworld Expo, Steve Jobs said the following: "Apple is ABOUT The Mac OS." - That's not true, it never has been. Otherwise while I'd still have to do a lot of hacking to support the hardware, like I do now. I'd at least I'd be able to walk in a store and buy a copy of OS X for PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes if its cheap i'll buy it if its liek 2 K for photoshop, bah

 

The problem is that the "industry" has only itself to blame. Together with most o/t leading educational systems whom are no more than advertising agency for the big software packages.

 

Instead of forcing ppl to use particular expensive programs , learn the basics, like schools are supposed to do. So that ppl can enrich their knowledge interactivly at their jobs. Infact if your employer require that you shouldknow program X then THEY should fund course into that particular program. Don't force schools to suck {censored} of the big mega-corp's. I mean why teach ppl only Microsoft Word instead of generic Wordprocessing. With generic wordprocessing knowledge you could use ANY wordprocessing package. Because one day Word will not be popular anymore. Remember what happened with WordPerfect, the once leading wordprocessor for PC's. I was forced to learn WP and I can't do anything with that knowledge today. And since WP was back then the big expensive package I had to steal it also to able to practice my teachings. The same happens today in many more fields.

 

Just follow a "beginners" course in computer art (graphics). They'll slap you around with the big expensive photoshop. Instead of learning generic painting skills and generic computer graphics so that you could use ANY paint-program. And (more importantly) so that you DON'T have to steal this big expensive program but that you can BUY that affordable paintshop pro (or any other paint program for that matter) and use that to practise your newlearned skills.

 

Schools should encourage ppl to stay open-minded towards software and computer usage. Because after all a computer and it's associated OS and applications are merely tools. One should not be tied to one particular tool.

 

I my case I am willing to buy software (hell, I spend thousands of euros on genuine original RISC OS software) of MY choice. Not the mega-corp's choice!

 

So back OFF.

 

Kiko. This is NOT to offend you personally. Okay? As what I'm saying is the same as what you're saying. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I need it and can't get a free alternative else where, I'll go legit. However, if it is something I don't need and would not buy, I will pirate it to give it a go... Before you judge, there have been plenty of times where pirating something has lead me to actually buy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I need it and can't get a free alternative else where, I'll go legit. However, if it is something I don't need and would not buy, I will pirate it to give it a go... Before you judge, there have been plenty of times where pirating something has lead me to actually buy it.

I agree. In my case, if it weren't for my hacintosh I would probably never have considered buying a real one.

 

hecker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ramm

I say that if the software is unaffordable, eg too much, then you can pirate it. Some people don't have the privelege of spending 900 dollars on a 3D program.

 

Of course, this is biased

:)

Edited by Ramm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah. i know many people who dont have the cash for computer software, but they could do amazing thins if they pirated. (i bought 2 copies of tiger after i downloaded osx86)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this debate is quite great, meaning, a lot of people sharing their thought.

 

Just a little mindset that I want to share:

 

For me, the reason to use pirated software are:

 

1. Wanna try before buy, but after convinient using the software still doesn't pay the price (keep continuing using pirated soft). This also create opportunity to vendors to have good market. Like in Indonesia, many people use pirated Windows.... but then it create some habbits to people to get use or more familiar using Windows instead of using Free software like Linux. So that's way a lot people in here are a little bit 'resistent' (due to their culture/habits/familiarity with Windows.

 

2. Thinks that the software is to expensive. This a little bit make sense for me or maybe for people that come from 3rd world, since we are still fighthing against hunger. Plus some vendors doesn't create different scheme for country that 'lower' per capita income (PCI). Another illustration of this, that Ministry of Industry in Malaysia still thinks that Music/Film industry are STILL TO EXPENSIVE producing the CD/DVD, so that's way PIRATING those things are will always happens. But then the Music/Film industry CLAIM that because they have to pay royality... My personal opinion agree with ROYALITY, but if you produce in mass it is better to reduce the price (including ROYALITY fee) but you will get more volume on sales.

 

3. Don't have enough support eventhough buying the original. This is a little bit cruicial... Since we live in the 3rd world, sometimes the consumer rights is not well protected (including right to get support of using software), so why we have to pay license/original software if we got not different level of support with pirated user?

 

Conclusion: I don't mind to buy original software as long it is worthed, but defining worthed could be difficult since a lot of aspect should be consider, e.g.: support, functionality, expectation, culture, etc.....

 

That's my opinion about software piracy....

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know... this all seems too flakey to me. There are so many ways to violate licence agreements it's not even funny. I, for one, am for free enterprise. However, it seems that nobody puts themselves into the shoes of the programmers, though. Just think, how are the programmers going to make a living if they don't get paid for their work?

 

:)

 

Guru

 

 

 

People should liberate all information from the chains unjustly put on it because mastering how to do so is mastering one move of self-defense in the historic fight of productive human beings against the parasitic owning classes and their mission to privatize everything, lower wages, jack up prices and destroy the free enjoyment of public space.

 

The capitalist ruling classes of today are the modern day Luddites. They are afraid of technology and the change it facilitates in their world and so they attempt to destroy it if only partially in order to preserve the social status quo. The unfettered exchange of information based wealth is by nature suited to the benefit of all at the expense of so few, and not suited at all to capital's historic project of privatization which has always been intended to benefit so few at the expense of all the rest.

 

It is not for the benefit of creative people that they are prevented from sharing their wealth be it code, theory, or art, to preserve the maximized profit of the owners of society. It is not for their benefit that they remain in working arrangements which limit their own power to enlighten people and make them happy. It is obviously not for the benefit of the people who stand to be enlightened or made happier that it costs more either. 600 dollar hammers only benefit the people selling hammers not the people who have nails.

 

The social arrangements of modern life are clearly for the benefit of the masters, and that programmers are laid off, songs are not sung, books are not published, when these arrangements are violated is something we should blame on the capitalist's stubborn insistence that if they can't enjoy the benefit of something the way they want, then NOBODY can. Unemployment is not a result of the economy people it is a conscious and punitive function of it.

 

The Open source movement and the software pirates are scattered and disorganized members of the revolutionary wing of the emergent economic class, even if so many of its members are not yet conscious of this fact. "The hacking class it not what it is, but what it can become."

 

Once software piracy and the movement which employs it figures out how to apply the lessons of our reappropriation of information based wealth to the reappropriation of the wealth that is our land, our sweat blood and effort, then the end of wage paying jobs will not be a regrettable side effect of our activity... it will be the whole point.

 

Like anyone is going to miss their 9 - 5 or their boss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why by software, IF you Really like it, you would go out and purchase it to support the company. On the other hand, if you don't like it, you don't have to waist your time on waiting online and getting the 15% Shaft on returning it, plus the hassle :thumbsup_anim:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hahahaha, this is funny companies (i.e. Microsoft, Adobe, Corel) actually wants you to pirate your software. Microsoft specifically said they would prefer you to pirate their software over using a competitor's product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×