Jump to content
Swad

Windows Vista

655 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

I think Vista will do its job by preparing us for Vienna. The question I want to know is, will Microsoft keep to its word and have more OS releases and less service packs? Only time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement

The arrogance of Steve Jobs? You hit it right on the money. Even in the early days of apple, he wanted to charge a premium for selling a mac versus selling a pc. Where did it get him? The 5% share of the PC market apple has now. In the beginning Apple had a monopoly with personal computers. Then the pc compatible from ibm came along. And instead of Apple trying to compete by lowering their prices against it. Steve Jobs and his arrogance made him believe that people would continue paying more for their PC against IBM's PC. And that is where Apple lost their huge market share.

 

And here we go again. For the last few years, Apple has been selling iPod's. And has had the monopoly on the market of portable mp3 players where you can buy songs online with their store iTunes. But if you look at the law that was passed in France recently. Even though it was severely crippled. If the rights holders demand that an online music store's DRM work on any portable mp3 player as long as it can play the music back in the codec that it was encoded in, the online music store has to comply. Which means that if you want to play your purchased iTunes music on another portable mp3 player that can play back AAC files, and the rights holder wants you to be able to do this, then Apple has no choice but to allow you to do it. And I don't mean by you burning a cd and then ripping that cd to put on your portable mp3 player, I mean removing the DRM from the audio file without having to recompress the audio file.

 

And now there are 3 more countries in Europe thinking of enacting a law like this. This means if you want to buy songs on iTunes, you don't have to buy Apple's iPod anymore to play them back on a portable mp3 player. Which spells the end of Apple's monopoly on the portable mp3 player market. Because now they're only competing on usability and features instead of that plus buying songs online. You don't need to buy an iPod if you want to buy songs from iTunes. And how many of their sales are their because simply the customer was told that if you want to listen to digital music on the go, they have to buy an iPod. We'll find out soon enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what i like about both osx and windows. i like the how stable osx is most of the time i like that it can be very smooth and good os. but i also like and use windows xp more often than mac osx just because of the app i use are xp only most of the time. but i also use linux i am bad at it but i am working at it to be better user of linux. but what keeps me in the windows world is that i am a geek and i enjoy most of the stuff it has to offer. i build pcs you cant build macs you cant customize the way it is in anyway it is what it is. i love knowing how much work i put in to a pc and every thing if i am going to buy a pre built system i am not going to spend more than a grand on it. i just like linuxs and windows software better for when building. i have not used or played with vista yet and dont really feel like wasting my time with it cause i no intill sp1 or 2 come out i have no need for the trouble it will offer me.

but what i like about osx hardware does not make me feel like spending more than a grand on it. the only thing apple will get me to spend more than a grand on it is there laptops. they are one of a kind they got the looks they got the speed they got the gpus. they even have boot camp to duel boot windows i am a windows kinda person i will always have it in me. there is no way i can build a laptop like the mac book pro. that is way keep me coming back to apple. but i agree there are many ways that apple can boost there sales and make it more money. but i dont see any of them happening just cause it is not there way. i think the best thing i read so far was the car compare to pcs and mac i can build a very nice car that can do any thing i want so on and soforth. but the only thing is there is always that one car you cant build and you want so bad you save money for half your life time just to get it for me that would be a macbook pro i think i might hold out for osx 10.5 wtih one of the new intel chips that are faster. andi will always build my pcs and almost never buy a pc notebook cause they are trash more than half the time.

i no this is long and a big rant almost but i think osx and linuxs are in there own worlds. windows just owns the rest and fight it self to see how fast the convert people to the new os. it is a race for microsoft to see if they can break there last recored. witch is sad and i hope one day linux or apple comes and give a more of a fight.post-16072-1154129768_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah but a law like that will never pass in the us/uk, but ms is getting antitrust all over europe.

 

Apple need to lower their prices

 

Or PC prices should go higher.

 

You know what would really suck? If we all had to buy Macs. Kiss Overclocking, Modding etc... good by and say hello to DRM, Steve JObs and overpriced everything.

 

Some ppl don't want to overclock or case-mod. They just want to get the bloody job done and go home to the wife, kids and play with the dog or have a few beers with the mates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or PC prices should go higher.

Some ppl don't want to overclock or case-mod. They just want to get the bloody job done and go home to the wife, kids and play with the dog or have a few beers with the mates.

 

Wow, I've never heard anyone advocate that something should be higher priced. As for your second comment, that is true. Some people want that. But others like me enjoy gaming with the best hardware money can buy, building their own computer so they get it exactly how they want it, or just preferring that their is competition in the pc market place. Remember Steve Jobs said it himself that he believed he could charge more for a mac against a pc. How did the market place react to that? Well you already know the answer to that.

 

But if you think Microsoft's monopoly is bad? Imagine one where apple has the default monopoly. Say goodbye to clone makers, interoperability, open file formats in apple's default applications, the ability to build your own computer because apple doesn't authorize them to sell their processors to end users, low priced computers, and many other things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

I guess I will get flamed for saying this but it's a very good reason that Microsoft have like 97% of the OS market while Apple fight for 2-3 percent on a global scale. It has nothing to do with the price of hardware, nor consumer ignorance. The reason that Microsoft has its monopoly is spelled C-A-R-E.

 

They care not because they are much nicer than you and me, they care because it makes financial sense. They gave us (well, sold us then) Windows 95 without braking backward compatibility with DOS, they gave us NT without braking (to much) of DOS or W95 compatibility, they gave us Windows 2000 and XP and still it was important for them to make sure that many of the older programs worked as well as new ones. They also care a lot about their hardware and software partners and make sure they know enough about any new OS as to not be taken by surprise.

 

What has this to do with Vista? Well, everything. Vista will be a success for the very same reason that DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, NT4 and XP all were great successes. MS will keep a reasonable amount of backward compatibility and still bring new and exciting features to the table. It will be reasonable easy to run, even on older machines (but without Aeroglass) and there will be a magnitude of hardware available from _different_ vendors.

 

For these reasons Apple will never be able to touch MS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all. This seemed like an interesting topic so i thought id' get a word in.

 

I've been hacking mac since early september so im not new to macintosh, or 'hackintosh' and i've been using windows for oodles of time (lol i said oodles). Anyways. We can all agree microsoft has faced tramatic losses and stupid releases - most memorably Windows ME. It was so bad and lasted so shortly. Current software only supports XP and 2000 usually. And then, Windows 'longhorn' was in development. The betas were such a disaster in stability that the production was stopped and restarted under the new codename, 'vista'. Now, my friends and i have been testing the production of the vista betas since the pre-beta2 releases of 52xx and 5308 all the way up to the public beta. Beta 1was incredibly unstabile and you see the true meaning of beta. However, it seems to get better ever release. One can only hope for microsoft's sake that they get all the bugs because it still is not rock solid.

 

Then there are issues to me, that do not justify why i should buy vista. It's 3d environment may be pretty and enticing to the average noob computer user but computer experts and most of us on this forum know that it will come at a price. Microsoft plans to compromise cpu usage in the 3d rendering to give relief on the system. It still will cut down on the overall system productability. And in my opinion, the GUI looks dreadful in 2D (probably microsoft's 'message' to get a better system for that nice 3d look). Then there are the major convenience issues. The shutdown process has been changed to a button that look like a shutdown button but is really a 1 button sleep. and the shutdown/hibernate/restart/sleep is available only through a secondary menu. Then, the rip-off sidebar. Even i, a rather microsoft-favorable computer user, must agree that it is a bit rediculous, even desperate to copy apple's ideas to such an extent, thus proving how far behind they are. Their sidebar proves to be a very inferior design in comparison with dashboard. When it is above the other windows, it reduces workspace on the screen. When it is below the other windows, it is not so easily available. In my opinion, it needs a hotkey like dashboard. Even so, microsoft needs to find a way to hold more 'gadgets' as many will want to hold. I'm sure there will be dashboard vs sidebar contests in the number of gadgets/widgets.

 

The all programs part of the start menu is the biggest mess ever. If you know what i mean, a single glance will identify the issue i have with this. in xp, the secondary menu of the subfolders appear when the mouse scrolls over the selected program in the start menu. In vista, the folders of folders are there but you must click it to show the available programs. the subfolders of the program do not expand outward in a second menu but downward in the same small menu, conflicting with other programs and folders in the all programs list. A few clicks and it will get really messy.

 

I am predicting major problems with compatibility and stability. Also, it is rather annoying when it asks to confirm every action or program opened. I am foreseeing problems in the DX area, as well as internal problems with programs and the 3D rendering.

 

All-in-all, Vista seems interesting, however it doesn't give much appeal as to why someone should buy it. When it comes out, I might get it from that bay of pirates everyone is talking about.

 

Anyways, Vista is average but obvious with Apple in development with they're new OS, they will have the upper hand in the GUI style, as well as performance. The situation is this: vista will not get many sales, only with people buying dells, etc and thus getting the software built into it. I give vista a year then it'll get lots of sales because people are forced to, especially for gaming. With Direct X 10, games demand the newest operating system. XP is great and i think lots of people will hav a hard time letting go, but the inevitable truth is they are forced to, one way or the other, to upgrade (with lack of security, support, upgrades, drivers, DX 10). The true question is how big of an impact apple's new os will make. Personally, i t hink it will be an innovative OS indeed, surpassing or meeting the level of Vista in performance and probably better in GUI and style. However, it is a matter of Microsoft's compatibility and availability on the market, as well as PC value in prices as compared to overpriced Apples. Apple only controls about 10% of the computer market, much of that due to their introduction of intel processors - which was incredibly blown out of proportion. Apple may have innovative and cool looking software but Microsoft will always be greater than Apple. That's just how it is. There are more smarter people who care about compatility and gaming and getting all-around above average software and hardware for a much better price than shallow noobs who only like the Macs for they're looks, charm, thinness, and exclusive media software.

 

M$>Apple

 

for now at least. Things mite well change if apple changes their strategy and gains more attention. With attention and many more customers and demand will come contracts with 3rd party software developers and companies and an increase in compatibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am currently running VISTA BETA 2 and it is running on my P.C. flawlessly i haavent ecountered too many bugs but there are bugs yes considering it is still in the beta phase but i do think vista the final product will turn out quite nicely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess I will get flamed for saying this but it's a very good reason that Microsoft have like 97% of the OS market while Apple fight for 2-3 percent on a global scale. It has nothing to do with the price of hardware, nor consumer ignorance. The reason that Microsoft has its monopoly is spelled C-A-R-E.

 

They care not because they are much nicer than you and me, they care because it makes financial sense. They gave us (well, sold us then) Windows 95 without braking backward compatibility with DOS, they gave us NT without braking (to much) of DOS or W95 compatibility, they gave us Windows 2000 and XP and still it was important for them to make sure that many of the older programs worked as well as new ones. They also care a lot about their hardware and software partners and make sure they know enough about any new OS as to not be taken by surprise.

 

What has this to do with Vista? Well, everything. Vista will be a success for the very same reason that DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, NT4 and XP all were great successes. MS will keep a reasonable amount of backward compatibility and still bring new and exciting features to the table. It will be reasonable easy to run, even on older machines (but without Aeroglass) and there will be a magnitude of hardware available from _different_ vendors.

 

For these reasons Apple will never be able to touch MS.

 

 

I agree with you but i think that there should be another point added... it will also be included on most OEM pcs, witch means that most people will use it because they do not know, care enough, or cant because its not feasable enough, install a new os instead of the one that came with the pc, that is a big part of it too.

 

 

 

max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow, I've never heard anyone advocate that something should be higher priced.

 

Scarry, isn't it? I am unfortunatly serious about it. Look, prices for everything else goes up, cars , rent, gasoline etc.... In europe it's because those {censored}s changed the monetary system and invented the euro or because oil prices increase or whatever. There is only ONE market that decreases constantly consumer prices and that's the computer market. However ppl do want (read: expect) service when things break down, and they do break down in the IT-world. But that cost money. It's as if everyone else may earn big bucks except the professionals in the IT-world. I remember when I was a respected man as a DTP-officer in the early 90's nowadays I'm worth jack-{censored} as an IT-professional.

 

As for your second comment, that is true. Some people want that. But others like me enjoy gaming with the best hardware money can buy, building their own computer so they get it exactly how they want it, or just preferring that their is competition in the pc market place.

 

If you want to play games at thier best just buy a console. For god's sake. An Xbox has a much lesser performant CPU and much lesser GFX-card and yet every game scrolls way smoother on that then on your overclocked, fluid cooled, nuclear power plant under your desk.

 

It's clear Gaming on PC's is over. Except from a few excotic strategy games. Microsoft acknowledge that, that's why they invented the Xbox and Xbox360. That's why games nowadays come out FIRST for Xbox and LATER for PC's (read: for that happy few that spend millions to build a power plant under their desk)

 

Remember Steve Jobs said it himself that he believed he could charge more for a mac against a pc. How did the market place react to that? Well you already know the answer to that.

 

But if you think Microsoft's monopoly is bad? Imagine one where apple has the default monopoly. Say goodbye to clone makers, interoperability, open file formats in apple's default applications, the ability to build your own computer because apple doesn't authorize them to sell their processors to end users, low priced computers, and many other things.

 

Apple in the past welcomed clone builders. The reason why they ditched that route was that these clone biulders made higher-end macs then Apple did, instead of building low-end Macs Apple wanted them to build in the first place. Profit is not in those cheap dump-ass HP or Dell PC's but in high end equipment unless you go for large volume sales. So I'm sure if Dell would build cheap Apple clones, Apple would welcome them as a partner.

 

As for interoperability? What the hell is that? As I said before. most ppl need some job to get done. They don't care wether it's done by that computer running Windows or Mac OS. In fact my own mother doesn't even know (read: realise) that the program she uses to surf the internet is called "Microsoft Internet Explorer" and she doesn't understand why I urge her to use "Mozilla Firefox" instead (which I also installed on her PC).

 

Your remark about "open file formats" is even more ridiculous (especially to me). I personally fought for open standards when I suported the European invented RISC OS properiarity systems for ages. That system strictly adhered to "open standards" and it is completely riduculed by the Microsoft properiatery standard (AKA Microsoft Office). In fact even Open Office realise that adopting properiatery MS Office standard as the facto standard is the only way to gain market. It's all {censored}. The big players dictate the market and the rest must follow if they want to gain any recognision at all. We can demand open standard as long as we want, it's that certain properiatery standard that drives the market.

 

So I tell you this. I don't appreciate being pushed around by those big jack-ass players any more then you do. But if I do have to choose a player I'd rather choose for the one who has at least a vision of "how we ought to use computers" and really doing something about it to make life easier for us. Especially when they even add some style and grace to it. Apple is one o/t the best players in this field IMHO as far as properiatery systems are concerned. Sure in person, Steve is probably worse than Bill... but he HAS a vision that I can relate to and he sticks to it. That earns my respect at least. Bill just wan to fill his pockets.

 

Regards,

 

EPDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[snipped the irrellavant stuf]

 

With Intel hardware in the boxes, there is no need to high prices even WITH the cool designs. I will bet you money, if I was a betting man, that Apple doesn't pay nearly as much for the hardware in the Intel Macs like the PowerPC Macs. The EFI is the only custom piece of hardware. So why should the price be so high?

 

Because (as you also found out) they can earn more profit on the SAME computer when they use an Intel CPU instaed of a PPC. This has NOTHING to do with arrogance. Just simple business tactics (lower costs but keep same retail prices will gain more profit)

 

quote name='sandmanfvrga' date='Jul 20 2006, 05:12 PM' post='147830']

Arrogance in Steve Jobs. Frankly with the Intel move, Apple needs to focus more on software, not hardware. In my opinion, they have stopped being a hardware company. They offer PCs, with nice cases. Nothing more. When Jobs realizes that, then things will change.

 

Oh he realise that. In fact even with the PPC Jobs realised that. Only you ppl started to realise that with the move to Intel cpu's. Jobs turned to Intel because because IBM couldn't deliver. Jobs wanted to beat the WIntel PC a long time ago with a powerfull +3GHz PPC MacIntosh. But the PPC Macs never reached over 2,5GHz. How do think Jobs felt. He made a promise ages ago to deliver that +3GHz Mac and couldn't deliver because of a cpu-builder couldn't keep HIS promise. For god's sake, Dual and Quad Core G5 Mac's are gorgeous machines both in design as in technologic excelence, and yet NOBODY recognise this. You lot are all bitching about high prices while there isn't even a quad core WIntel consumer computer around. I think the price Apple wants nowadays is right. I might, personally, not have the money for that Quad CPU G5 powerhouse. But why should it be cheaper? Doesn't he have the right to earn some money? Why may Ford earn bucks, why may your landlord earn bucks, why may the telephone company earn bucks but the IT-ppl may not. It has to end here. If you can't afford it, bad luck. Save a bit longer and you can afford it.

 

And if you can't save or won't earn enough money... build the hackIntosh... as I did :-)

 

Regards,

 

EPDM

 

 

[snipped the irrellavant stuf]

 

With Intel hardware in the boxes, there is no need to high prices even WITH the cool designs. I will bet you money, if I was a betting man, that Apple doesn't pay nearly as much for the hardware in the Intel Macs like the PowerPC Macs. The EFI is the only custom piece of hardware. So why should the price be so high?

 

Because (as you also found out) they can earn more profit on the SAME computer when they use an Intel CPU instaed of a PPC. This has NOTHING to do with arrogance. Just simple business tactics (lower costs but keep same retail prices will gain more profit)

 

Arrogance in Steve Jobs. Frankly with the Intel move, Apple needs to focus more on software, not hardware. In my opinion, they have stopped being a hardware company. They offer PCs, with nice cases. Nothing more. When Jobs realizes that, then things will change.

 

Oh he realise that. In fact even with the PPC Jobs realised that. Only you ppl started to realise that with the move to Intel cpu's. Jobs turned to Intel because because IBM couldn't deliver. Jobs wanted to beat the WIntel PC a long time ago with a powerfull +3GHz PPC MacIntosh. But the PPC Macs never reached over 2,5GHz. How do think Jobs felt. He made a promise ages ago to deliver that +3GHz Mac and couldn't deliver because of a cpu-builder couldn't keep HIS promise. For god's sake, Dual and Quad Core G5 Mac's are gorgeous machines both in design as in technologic excelence, and yet NOBODY recognise this. You lot are all bitching about high prices while there isn't even a quad core WIntel consumer computer around. I think the price Apple wants nowadays is right. I might, personally, not have the money for that Quad CPU G5 powerhouse. But why should it be cheaper? Doesn't he have the right to earn some money? Why may Ford earn bucks, why may your landlord earn bucks, why may the telephone company earn bucks but the IT-ppl may not. It has to end here. If you can't afford it, bad luck. Save a bit longer and you can afford it.

 

And if you can't save or won't earn enough money... build the hackIntosh... as I did :-)

 

Regards,

 

EPDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its not about the quality of the operating system in microsofts eyes, its about the quantity shipped, microsoft is a trusted brand, and its not a piticularily bad one, too.

As long as microsoft is the only consumer os that is licensed to every pc in the world, then they will make money, what computer illitarete consumer is going to go into a store and buy a mac when they can buy a cheaper windows pc.

lets face it unless apple can license their os, and push prices down of their hardware, and market it much more agrresively, then microsoft is always going to win.

No no no.

 

Matt (hope I don't offend you by calling Matt). WE can make THE difference. WE are the sort of geeks the "illiterate" turn to. WE can push THEM in the right direction. WE are ones who think about computers and how we work with them (or wanna work with them anyway). Apple doesn't necassarily need to lower prices. There's already a Mac for all price categories except for the high-end market. As of today they are the ones left behind. But YOU can either convince that relative of yours to buy a system build by YOU (HackIntosh) or the real thing (MacIntosh). It's all in your hands, you just don't realise it.

 

If YOU build the system YOU earn the bucks BUT you'll have to support the system to that relative. The same with Apple if they sell a system to that relative. This is all about responsability (they're in a better position because they control both the hardware and software). And it realy doesn't matter who "wins". As we are the last border illiterate turns to. We must make sure that WE remain THAT last border and not Apple or Dell or HP for that matter.

 

Again I hope I didn't offend you. As this is definitly NOT my intention. I just believe that WE can make a difference, not them.

 

Regards,

 

EPDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets go over this piece by piece shall we :)

 

Scarry, isn't it? I am unfortunatly serious about it. Look, prices for everything else goes up, cars , rent, gasoline etc.... In europe it's because those {censored}s changed the monetary system and invented the euro or because oil prices increase or whatever. There is only ONE market that decreases constantly consumer prices and that's the computer market. However ppl do want (read: expect) service when things break down, and they do break down in the IT-world. But that cost money. It's as if everyone else may earn big bucks except the professionals in the IT-world. I remember when I was a respected man as a DTP-officer in the early 90's nowadays I'm worth jack-{censored} as an IT-professional.

 

The reason that PC prices have gone down is that manufacturing costs have gone down. That's the real reason. Also as far as service goes, PC manufacturers realized that sticking in that restore disk fixed 99% of problems that the consumer was having. If it didn't, then it was most likely a hardware problem in that they would send it back and the piece of hardware causing it would be replaced.

 

If you want to play games at thier best just buy a console. For god's sake. An Xbox has a much lesser performant CPU and much lesser GFX-card and yet every game scrolls way smoother on that then on your overclocked, fluid cooled, nuclear power plant under your desk.

 

It's clear Gaming on PC's is over. Except from a few excotic strategy games. Microsoft acknowledge that, that's why they invented the Xbox and Xbox360. That's why games nowadays come out FIRST for Xbox and LATER for PC's (read: for that happy few that spend millions to build a power plant under their desk)

 

Typical mac user explanation for not being able to game on a mac. Your so called "fact" that gaming on the pc is over, has been said for years. Yet there is no slowdown on pc hardware sales of highend video cards, highend sound cards, etc. Try again.

 

Apple in the past welcomed clone builders. The reason why they ditched that route was that these clone biulders made higher-end macs then Apple did, instead of building low-end Macs Apple wanted them to build in the first place. Profit is not in those cheap dump-ass HP or Dell PC's but in high end equipment unless you go for large volume sales. So I'm sure if Dell would build cheap Apple clones, Apple would welcome them as a partner.

 

Yes that is true. But with steve jobs in charge, they won't go the clone route again. Apple just doesn't compete well enough when it has competition. Which is why they only have 5% of the PC Market. Although that is rising.

 

As for interoperability? What the hell is that? As I said before. most ppl need some job to get done. They don't care wether it's done by that computer running Windows or Mac OS. In fact my own mother doesn't even know (read: realise) that the program she uses to surf the internet is called "Microsoft Internet Explorer" and she doesn't understand why I urge her to use "Mozilla Firefox" instead (which I also installed on her PC).

 

Interoperability is being able to use any web browser to surf the internet because the standards have already been set. Now that is getting their with Firefox coming in taking away IE's user base. But open interoperability also means you have an open audio standard, open video standards. Just look at the iTunes music store as an example. Sure it has an open audio codec, AAC. But apple has their proprietary DRM that they won't license to any other mp3 player manufacturers. Sure apple could open the driver api and license their DRM so that third party mp3 players could work as well as the ipod does with itunes, they'd just have to support the open AAC codec. But apple won't do that because it'll effect their ipod sales. And apple will lock out the competition as much as it can. As much as the law will allow of course. Which I think because apple ties these 2 separate products together like this, should be illegal. France tried to undo this, but got a huge loop hole put in before it passed. Which is a shame, because it only hurts consumers in the end.

 

What if there was an awesome portable mp3/aac player out there that was better then the ipod? Would you buy it knowing that you wouldn't be able to use it with iTunes like you could with the iPod? Probably not. And don't tell me that you can put any music you buy from the iTunes music store onto any mp3 player if you just burn a cd first and then rip it. That to me is inconvenient. I tell you though, one day this will hurt apple the way it locked out the competition from the iTunes music store. It will. Just like it did in the early days of the PC taking off when Steve Jobs decided to charge way more for a Mac compared against a PC, and it cost them their big market share they had built up.

 

Another example is the way apple did podcasts on the iTunes music store. Instead of sticking with the RSS format, they made their own and not open and not standard the way it had been made.

 

Your remark about "open file formats" is even more ridiculous (especially to me). I personally fought for open standards when I suported the European invented RISC OS properiarity systems for ages. That system strictly adhered to "open standards" and it is completely riduculed by the Microsoft properiatery standard (AKA Microsoft Office). In fact even Open Office realise that adopting properiatery MS Office standard as the facto standard is the only way to gain market. It's all {censored}. The big players dictate the market and the rest must follow if they want to gain any recognision at all. We can demand open standard as long as we want, it's that certain properiatery standard that drives the market.

 

That is true. But the Open Document format is coming along and I believe will become the standard document format. Then office suites will start to compete based on usability instead of locking customers into a certain format.

 

So I tell you this. I don't appreciate being pushed around by those big jack-ass players any more then you do. But if I do have to choose a player I'd rather choose for the one who has at least a vision of "how we ought to use computers" and really doing something about it to make life easier for us. Especially when they even add some style and grace to it. Apple is one o/t the best players in this field IMHO as far as properiatery systems are concerned. Sure in person, Steve is probably worse than Bill... but he HAS a vision that I can relate to and he sticks to it. That earns my respect at least. Bill just wan to fill his pockets.

 

Regards,

 

EPDM

 

The only problem with apple's vision is that it locks out competition completely. And when something is closed, it doesn't flourish as well as if it were open. Plus prices remain high too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MS does not care that much otherwise they wouldnt be f***ing people over with insane hardware requirements and moving the god dam start menu items, the place where they stuck the word computer is retarded, they should have left it my computer gahhh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the EPDM vs Pyrates debate, I would have to agree with Pyrates 100%. Obviously, he is the more aware computer user. EPDM sounds like a Steve Jobs follower, brainwashed into believing lies. The PC gaming industry is going NOWHERE, it is thriving now more than anytime before, mostly due to the fact of competition amongst numerous companies in motherboards, video cards, and the release of dual-core. Xbox 360 is full of bull$#@!. Here's why: you're paying 400+ for a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. As much as you like to say it won't go outdated, it will, just like playstation 2 with newer consoles like xbox. Also, games tend to be favorable towards one company's console and you'll find that kickass game you wanted won't be available (Ex: halo is my number 1 example and also battlefield, which came out for xbox before PS2). Also, 200 dollars more and you can do more than just game with your PC. Any big gamer will agree that the PC experience is 1 of growing number. We have yet to see how vista will affect this but in my opinion, the harsh hardware requirements will limit gaming on vista for at least half a year. Still, XP, the clashes of dual core cpus, multiple video cards, etc have brought a new era of PC gaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just look at the iTunes music store as an example. Sure it has an open audio codec, AAC. But apple has their proprietary DRM that they won't license to any other mp3 player manufacturers. Sure apple could open the driver api and license their DRM so that third party mp3 players could work as well as the ipod does with itunes, they'd just have to support the open AAC codec. But apple won't do that because it'll effect their ipod sales. And apple will lock out the competition as much as it can. As much as the law will allow of course. Which I think because apple ties these 2 separate products together like this, should be illegal. France tried to undo this, but got a huge loop hole put in before it passed. Which is a shame, because it only hurts consumers in the end.

It sucks that that apple locks the ITMS to the iPod, and DRM sucks in general. But apple isn't the only one doing this and when the zune comes out MS will have the same vertical model, and PlaysForSure does the same thing : you can only play the songs on the devices that payed to get in the club.

What if there was an awesome portable mp3/aac player out there that was better then the ipod? Would you buy it knowing that you wouldn't be able to use it with iTunes like you could with the iPod? Probably not. And don't tell me that you can put any music you buy from the iTunes music store onto any mp3 player if you just burn a cd first and then rip it. That to me is inconvenient. I tell you though, one day this will hurt apple the way it locked out the competition from the iTunes music store. It will. Just like it did in the early days of the PC taking off when Steve Jobs decided to charge way more for a Mac compared against a PC, and it cost them their big market share they had built up.

Imagine you have ton of DRM wma songs, and you see a DAP that you like, but suddenly you relize it's not a PlaysForSure, it could be an iPod or not. Would Would you buy it knowing that you wouldn't be able to listen you purchased songs? Probably not. And don't tell me you can have the songs without DRM by burning them into a CD and ripping them... because you can't.

 

I'm sick of the people saying Apple's DRM suck, or that DRM suck, and then speak only about fairplay. All DRM sucks, and all DRM infringes your right of doing anything legal that you want to do with it.

 

Another example is the way apple did podcasts on the iTunes music store. Instead of sticking with the RSS format, they made their own and not open and not standard the way it had been made.

You really hate the ITMS don't you? You can use standard RSS feeds on iTunes for podcasts. And for the about the " own and not open and not standard", it isn't a standard that's why people have problems with it, and people get confused, and they just added tags so there could be more info, it's not like they trashed rss and made something completly different.

 

The only problem with apple's vision is that it locks out competition completely. And when something is closed, it doesn't flourish as well as if it were open. Plus prices remain high too.

You say Apple locks competition, but only show arguments of apple locking the iTMS and the ipod (which is true), but don't give other exaples beyond that. I could give examples in many areas of how MS locks down the competition

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It sucks that that apple locks the ITMS to the iPod, and DRM sucks in general. But apple isn't the only one doing this and when the zune comes out MS will have the same vertical model, and PlaysForSure does the same thing : you can only play the songs on the devices that payed to get in the club.

One of the reasons why Microsoft is doing this is because Apple has been so succesful using that same kind of marketing idea. That is why Microsoft is doing that.

 

Imagine you have ton of DRM wma songs, and you see a DAP that you like, but suddenly you relize it's not a PlaysForSure, it could be an iPod or not. Would Would you buy it knowing that you wouldn't be able to listen you purchased songs? Probably not. And don't tell me you can have the songs without DRM by burning them into a CD and ripping them... because you can't.

The only problem with this arguement is that apple own's the portable audio player market when it comes to allowing to purchase songs online and then downloading them. Atleast with the PlaysForSure market, you have competition in the portable audio player market. And plus they all have a logo PlaysForSure on it as well. And the only reason a portable player wouldn't have this is if it's older by more then atleast I say 2 or 3 years ago. But other then that, that is the 2 types of portable audio players out there. Either PlaysForSure or the iPod.

 

I'm sick of the people saying Apple's DRM suck, or that DRM suck, and then speak only about fairplay. All DRM sucks, and all DRM infringes your right of doing anything legal that you want to do with it.

Exactly, which is why online stores like eMusic are so much better because they don't use any kind of DRM.

 

You really hate the ITMS don't you? You can use standard RSS feeds on iTunes for podcasts. And for the about the " own and not open and not standard", it isn't a standard that's why people have problems with it, and people get confused, and they just added tags so there could be more info, it's not like they trashed rss and made something completly different.

It was a standard actually. But apple required all these different additional tags in order to post it on itunes. They could have instead submitted it to the RSS standards panel so that it would become part of the official standard. Now though if you want to have your podcast out their it HAS to be on iTunes. Otherwise no one really knows about it. But don't you worry, I've got an idea on making it a standard that works.

 

You say Apple locks competition, but only show arguments of apple locking the iTMS and the ipod (which is true), but don't give other exaples beyond that. I could give examples in many areas of how MS locks down the competition

Please do so then. But remember that when Microsoft did that, they got sued over it. Is Apple getting sued over it? Nope. France tried to make DRM interoperable with any portable audio player, but that fell through with so many loop holes ending up in it at the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im just expressing my mind about both Microsoft and Apple...please...do not take anything i say too hard

 

ok, i have been a windows user my entire life...then i found the OSX86 project and now i am slowly figuring out what i have been missing. A better GUI, better built in features (ie: dashboard, spotlight, iLife, ect) but as a banner from WWDC states "Redmond has a cat too...A copycat" Microsoft coppied apple on a couple of ideas, to name a few

1) Instant Search...aka Spotlight

2) IE 7 RSS...wait, doesnt that sound familiar, like Safari RSS

3) windows Aero ui...hmm, kinda like Aqua

 

Ok, if you can see that Microsoft completely copied these ideas from apple, then we can move on to other problems...like stability, drivers, and parts

ok, 15/20 users surveyed by me say that they get STOP errors on a frequent basis

1/20 users say they have had problems with OSX

one thing about windows is that it is not as stable as you wish it was...to tell the truth, windows XP is great, its stable about 90% of the time, it has many apps for it but there is one problem, drivers

Not to give Apple the upper hand, Apple has their own problems, ranging from part recalls, to having absolutely no driver support, i would say that its almost a tie here.

 

Ok, MS URGE vs. iTMS

hmm... no contest iTMS>>>>URGE

Zune vs. iPod

are you kidding me!!! iPod>>>Zune (i still cant believe the name)

windows movie maker vs. iMovie (HD)

roflmfao...unless exporting to dvd is not necessary for digital home movies then it goes to iMovie

Media Center vs. Front Row

ok, MS won this round...with tv recording scheduling for free, they clearly take the cake on this

PC Hardware vs. Mac Hardware

umm...mac hardware is slim, sleek, and sexy....unlike the the :) dell im writing this on!, yet there are many good pc cases and laptop designs...so its mainly up to the user.

Support options

ok, as of right now i think MS is going to have to hire more forigeners to answer support calls...Dell will most likely do the same, but as for apple, their ui has basically stayed the same...simple yet beautiful

 

ok, i got my rant out...(sigh) i feel much better now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think MS will continue to win although Mac OS X is better than Windows Vista.

HOw is it better?

 

I see some points on how it could be better.

 

But windows is more compatible and OSX/Apple is just propietary. Anything thats not Apple brand doesn't have good support on OSX.

 

For example my Zen Vision M, My Nextel phone i870 (Webjal, MediaDownloader) apps for the phones to upload ringtones or get the pictures only work in Windows. Now that makes the day go horrible.

 

Also, Media playing in OSX (videos) I dont see no program that are able to have a playlist of videos. Only music in itunes. but not even windows media player for osx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mac OS X shall own vista. Microsoft doesnt even know when Vista is coming. Then they say 2005, then 2006, then 2007. HOW LONG ITS GONNA TAKE> And wy they are planning to put some useless {censored} into the system??

 

I hope there will be a project for Mac OS X Leopard. The New Operating System from apple! I like the Time Machine. Those little things shall own microsoft...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mac OS X shall own vista. Microsoft doesnt even know when Vista is coming. Then they say 2005, then 2006, then 2007. HOW LONG ITS GONNA TAKE> And wy they are planning to put some useless {censored} into the system??

 

I hope there will be a project for Mac OS X Leopard. The New Operating System from apple! I like the Time Machine. Those little things shall own microsoft...

 

Actually this kind of feature has been available for quite sometime in Windows Server 2003. It's called volume shadow copy. And it's being brought to the home user in Windows Vista through file versioning. Although Mac OS X Leopard's time machine feature of backing up to an external hard drive sounds better. Maybe Microsoft might add that feature to Windows Vista. But remember the initial version of automated backup Microsoft had first. Apple just added in the ability to backup the entire system to an external hard drive where as Microsoft's version just uses the initial space on your hard drive to make the automated backups.

 

But remember, there are always bugs in software. Therefore I wouldn't rely on the Time Machine feature in Mac OS X Leopard to do all your backups. It's still a good idea to manually do them or back them up using another automated way.

 

And your little comment of when Vista will be released. Remember that Apple said that Mac OS X Leopard will "now" be released in Fall 2007, not 2006. So Microsoft isn't the only one delaying the release of their OS.

 

And perhaps to you Mac OS X shall own Vista, but always remember that the business model of Apple and Microsoft are totally different. Apple is a hardware company. Microsoft is a software company. Even if more people buy Mac's, they can still run Windows on them for all their windows only apps, so Microsoft wins in the end anyways. Being a hardware company when the hardware has become comoditized, like the pc has, has never enabled a company to own that particular market. They may be a part of it, but they'll never own it.

 

Anytime something is comoditized, the ability for one company to own that market never happens. Which is why Apple will never go past their niche status.

 

And if you mention how apple owns the mp3 player market, see one of my previous posts on why that is. That is all.

 

And can we turn off the guest feature ability to post? We seem to be getting more spam here and I find it better the only registered users be allowed to post anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually this kind of feature has been available for quite sometime in Windows Server 2003. It's called volume shadow copy.

 

I knew M$ had this already. OK here's the truth of it all. Apple claims that M$ is totally bsing them by copying all their stuff. And the general public believes them. Only true comp techies like us hold the knowledge that sets us apart from the nubs.

 

Heres the list

 

"Spotlight" - this searching feature built into Mac OS X has become one of its most known feature. One of the lesser known facts is that M$ actually originally thought of the idea, and planned to implement it in their new "Longhorn" project. However, Apple implemented it faster. So, Apple is attacking M$ for their own idea.

 

Time Machine --> shadow copy. Even though their not the same, we can think that the idea of the including of time machine was because of M$'s volume shadow copy. Even though time machine looks very cool, M$ beat Apple to it on the entire idea. However, Apple gets most of the rep for it because of the way they publicized it and with the pretty stars and sh*t. Its got great features but the overall idea is M$.

 

Widgets Vs. Gadgets - believe it or not, Gadgets came before widgets. M$ wanted to create a section in longhorn for users to access cool devices that provided easy information for users. It was also planned in longhorn - entitled "Gadgets". Apple created Widgets soon after.

 

The list goes on and on.... but i think u get the idea.

 

Then there's compatibility. With apple, you have to worry about compatibility every second of the day. Buying that cool new game - will it work on my mac?? Is photoshop in universal binary yet? With windows, u get no b$, it just works.

 

Sure there are viruses if you abuse your computer - Examples: porno, hacking. Anyhow, vista seems like it may be secure - at least more than xp. It provides confirmation for every user action.

 

The only problem in the whole thing is Mac OS X had a technical advantage over M$ users. They were 1 Operating system ahead. If longhorn had released as planned, Apple would've had severe competition. But, in the current situation, XP is years older. XP has been a great M$ operating system. I think you guys will agree with me, its gonna be a hard time letting go for Vista (memories :( ) Whatever... M$ will always pawn Apple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ittl be as buggy as everyone elses betas until sp1.... then it will be at least as good as xp...

 

 

max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apple needs to release OS X (or its replacement) for non-Apple hardware as a separately branded product if they ever hope to compete with Microsoft's OS market share.

 

This way Apple wouldn't risk losing hardware sales to clones and could offer the mainstream computer market a Microsoft OS alternative ("mainstream" being those that aren't wealthy enough to buy new Apple hardware).

 

And as someone else mentioned previously -- Apple would really have a shot at hurting Microsoft's dominance if its OS had a compatibility layer that allowed MS-compiled apps to be run natively. (Hopefully they'll dump a bunch of money into Wine)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×