SeattleGerald Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I want this and I'm sure there are a lot of other people like me who want it too, so I'm going to be the first to toss $129 into the pot and offer it as a bounty to the team who wants to be officially responsible for steering a wobbly 1.0 into the world. Current Bounty : $129* to the team of 3 to 7 people who can meet the challenge. People who write code work hard - and those who contribute code to open source projects deserve not only recognition for their efforts, they deseve to get paid. Instead of begging these overworked underpaid code jockies to get interested in my project, I'm putting my money where my mouth is and I'm coughing up cash to get what I want but don't have the skills to do myself. If there are enough people like me, this pot will eventually get big enough for someone to bite. If not, I'll refund everything that Paypal and Uncle Sam doesn't take. Purpose: 1. To create an open source functional work-alike of Apple's Mac OS X Operating System as an alternative to the OSX86 Project. 2. To take what Apple Inc. has given back to the open source community and use it to it's fullest potential. Goal: For each of our releases to be at least as functional as their OSX Release counterpart and to reach binary compatibility with current OS X releases by version 8. Method: Darwin + ZFS + ToshStep + Granule + CustomDesktop = Opentosh For more Details, read the FAQs: Project FAQ (Why Darwin?, etc.) Opentosh FAQ (Differences between Opentosh and Mac OS X, etc.) Future Plans FAQ (Version 2.0, etc.) Money FAQ FAQ on Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights (or... Didn't Apple just patent the Dock?) *Total of $129 is current as of October 17, 2008 @ 4:30pm Total excludes expenses, taxes and unforeseeable costs. http://opentosh.lefora.com/forum/category/all/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecker Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Sounds very interesting. I wish you guys the best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realityiswhere Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 puredarwin is attempting to do the exact same thing (mostly), using darwin, the open source framework. obviously things like finder, the dock, etc, are all encrypted binaries, and decompilation would be illegal, so they're doing things like using RPMs, MacPorts (since it's command-line anyway), etc, but there are blockers. check the website for more info, www.puredarwin.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleGerald Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 puredarwin is attempting to do the exact same thing (mostly), using darwin, the open source framework. obviously things like finder, the dock, etc, are all encrypted binaries, and decompilation would be illegal, so they're doing things like using RPMs, MacPorts (since it's command-line anyway), etc, but there are blockers. check the website for more info, www.puredarwin.org If any of their members want to get paid for their efforts, I'd be more than happy to "borrow" them as Team 1.0 members and hand over the cash I raise during the development cycle. I don't consider these to be competitive with one another. In fact, Opentosh has a very narrow focus and some very ambitious goals. I think all of these projects (including GNUStep and Etoilé) are complementary and our goals overlap. I will DEFINITELY check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realityiswhere Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 they're on IRC at irc.freenode.net, #puredarwin , if you wish to join up with them. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleGerald Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 they're on IRC at irc.freenode.net, #puredarwin , if you wish to join up with them. cheers. I've sent the admin an e-mail alerting them to my bounty and giving a link to the discussion page. Any other places where I might find like-minded people who may be interested in my pot of money, and fund raising skills? - Gerald P.S. Any advice on whether to GPL or Not to GPL? The hardest part of organizing a project like this is deciding on how to release the final product. Navigating the minefield of software distribution licenses is a daunting task with pitfalls at every turn. Licensing is what is keeping ZFS off of Linux and keeps OpenOffice and NeoOffice from sharing code. We can't even choose a home for our source code until a license is chosen, as each code host has a list of licenses they honor. To complicate matters, Darwin (the core system Opentosh is based on) is released under the Apple Public License, which has it's own unique twists and turns. Because of this, we may have to have a twin/complementary projects separating the Opentosh Core from the Opentosh Desktop, but if there is a way to keep from doing it, I'd like to hear it. Then, the elephant in the room: Is this free for everyone, or free for personal use and unbelievably dirt cheap for commercial use? I feel scummy for suggesting that we charge money for free software, but the idea of Pystar (a company with a history of dishonoring licensing agreements) making money off this project before an honest hardware maker can get get ramped up... grr! Should I get over it and just make it free? This is the meat of Discussion #1 and I'm listening to all advice that anyone is willing to give me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(MoC) Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Out of all honesty I wish you the best of luck, but, this just isn't possible to do. To make an open source mimic of the desktop, none-the-less make it able to run OS X binaries perfectly, is a {censored} hell of a job boys. A system isn't pulled out of anybody arse, not trying to offend the cause, but it's complicated. To make all OS X binaries run on clone software is a big deal itself! You'd need to port so many drivers, waste so many hours, and get to a point where quality just doesn't cut it. You know what whoever the guy was said "Nothing's better than the original". IF YOU DO, what are the chances that your alternative will actually last. Apple, Microsoft, and all of these big guys have lawyers, good ones too. Consider what you're getting yourself into; loopholes aren't enough. If I were you I'd give it a rest, I love the idea, I just don't see it as a reality. Try making your own OSx86 distro, or better yet, enjoy the short human life we're given, and stop wasting your own time. No hard feelings, but trust me on this one. ~MoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleGerald Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Out of all honesty I wish you the best of luck, but, this just isn't possible to do. To make an open source mimic of the desktop,This is not one of our stated goals, in fact this issue is addressed in our FAQ. Richard Stallman once said "GNU's Not Unix" it just lets you run unix programs. Well, Opentosh is not OS X. none-the-less make it able to run OS X binaries perfectly, Perfection is not one of our stated goals. 10.1-Puma-Level Cocoa-only compatibility is all we're after by the END of production on 1.0 A system isn't pulled out of anybody arse, not trying to offend the cause, but it's complicated. To make all OS X binaries run on clone software is a big deal itself! You'd need to port so many drivers... I think you will surprised to know how much of the work is already finished. This isn't a "square one" project. True, it's still a daunting task - one which would never get traction without a financial incentive. I'm just trying to kick start the supply/demand cycle on getting over the big hump in the beginning. I do invite you to read our collection of FAQs (there are six so far) or at least browse the headlines. While you're there, download GNUstep for your current platform and see it working today. - Gerald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justvisiting Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 who is "us" and "we" other than yourself?? you will find that it is not money that is the problem. doing the work is the problem. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleGerald Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 who is "us" and "we" other than yourself?? Until earlier today, "we" was my ex-roommate, two e-mail buddies, and myself, as we were the only ones to kick the idea around. I left their names off of everything as I don't intend to speak for them directly, even as I assume to speak for the group. I'm using the word in THIS context to also include future supporters of the concept who choose to support the idea financially. I feel it's safe to assume that I don't speak for people who don't support the idea, financially or in spirit. If you feel the word is offensive, I sincerely apologize. It wasn't my intention to put words in YOUR mouth in any way. you will find that it is not money that is the problem. doing the work is the problem. good luck I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I'm doing the fund. Money, not being a problem, can help solve the problem: doing the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justvisiting Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Until earlier today, "we" was my ex-roommate, two e-mail buddies, and myself, as we were the only ones to kick the idea around. I left their names off of everything as I don't intend to speak for them directly, even as I assume to speak for the group. I'm using the word in THIS context to also include future supporters of the concept who choose to support the idea financially. I feel it's safe to assume that I don't speak for people who don't support the idea, financially or in spirit. If you feel the word is offensive, I sincerely apologize. It wasn't my intention to put words in YOUR mouth in any way. I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I'm doing the fund. Money, not being a problem, can help solve the problem: doing the work. not offended, just wondering as i didn't see any other individuals posting on the site. carry on :censored2: edit: (wanted to say) not offended, just wondering as i didn't see any other individuals posting on the site and thought no one is actually working on things. carry on :censored2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleGerald Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 not offended, just wondering as i didn't see any other individuals posting on the site. carry on :censored2: edit: (wanted to say) not offended, just wondering as i didn't see any other individuals posting on the site and thought no one is actually working on things. carry on :censored2: The site (which until today was un-advertised and required membership to post) IS pretty sparse on conversation. I'm beginning to think that putting it on Leafora was a mistake. No one seems to be making any comments and I've gotten more traffic on this thread in six hours than I have @ leafora in six days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSmokingBandit Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 This may be very hard, but ReactOS has gotten very close to cloning win2k. I know nothing about programming, but if this project ever makes it to the final stages i can make original system sounds, lol. Im sure a musician can wedge his skills into this project somehow One thing though, if possible (like i said, i know nothing about programming) make this workable on SSE cpu's. I have a laptop i would love to run osx on but i cant becuse its only a sse processor. If its at all possible though. It might not be, idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embio Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 don't forget that ReactOS built on 8 years of the Wine project... although we do already have Darwin ready to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(MoC) Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 ....unless you guys want a web developer, I'm in. The Lefora forum isn't going to get you taken seriously at all bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x986123 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I wish you need a graphic artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I take it this will be released alongside Duke Nukem Forever and React OS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleGerald Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 ....unless you guys want a web developer, I'm in. The Lefora forum isn't going to get you taken seriously at all bud. Quote from opentosh.lefora.com: After exchanging e-mail with people in the Darwin, Hackintosh, and GNUstep communities (all of whom requested anonymity) I learned a few things that I never read on any website. "Unwritten rules" and an underground history that spans decades. No one person told the same story, but they ALL had two things in common: Each one initiated contact with HUGE disclaimers (even the ones I e-mailed first), and every one of them gave words of encouragement and advice. Without going into much detail, The Opentosh Project will be making a few changes. The first will be to all the names. It was never been my intention to create a look-alike or "clone" of anyone's OS. However, one of my fears was losing potential contributors because Opentosh was to be so different from OS X (especially the UI) that I may have gotten overzealous with my naming scheme and used names that alluded to Apple's trademarked names in an effort to explain the project to less-technical readers. I figured since Microsoft can name everything like that ("Finder" becomes "Explorer", "Trash" becomes "Recycle Bin", "Widgets" become "Gadgets", etc.) that it was considered "common practice". Now I realize it's considered cheap and insulting. The sad/funny part is that the names were merely "placeholders" as I searched for like-minded people who may already be working on the problems these "parts" solve and never represented any particular codebase. They were always temporary. (Yes, I had some code in mind, but I didn't want to name names until I got permission.) Unfortunately, the naming scheme worked TOO well and I spent more time explaining how Opentosh is different and less time how it was "the same". Next time, I won't underestimate my audience. For the record, none of the projects that ARE named at this site had anything bad to say to me - or anything to say to me at all, for that matter. I ended spending so much time exchanging e-mails with "unnamed sources" that I never actually contacted the GNUstep, ZFS, or Darwin groups. Second, I'm pulling the plug on the fund. This is the part that kinda hurts. Luckily, a profound lack of donations during the first week makes it super-easy. ...and Third, I'm moving the Discussion. I got more traffic in one thread @ Insanely Mac in six hours than my whole Lefora website got in six days. Unfortunately, Leafora makes it impossible to erase any posts for any reason. I can't nuke the website. The only thing I can do it to let it sit, abandoned like so many other Lefora websites, a ghost town monument to a long forgotten discussion. When the project returns (and it will), the discussion will be elsewhere. Sorry, Lefora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alloqba Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Sounds nice, are there any chances it will work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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