Hello everyone:

When the 8.04 versions of the *buntu distros come out, I am debating whether or not I should use Ubuntu or Kubuntu. Honestly, the question is whether you personally prefer KDE or GNOME? Sometimes I feel like I want to try Konqueror as a web browser. Is all of this worth it? I am also wondering this in terms of installation inside Parallels Desktop on Mac OS X.

And, does all Ubuntu software work in Kubuntu?

Personally I prefer GNOME over KDE (3). I've read that KDE 4 has some pretty nice features, but it doesn't seem ready for everyday use for me--maybe when 4.1 is out.

GNOME seems to have a more simplistic OSX-feel while KDE for me is a bunch of settings I don't feel like changing. There's a big debate about it all, some people say GNOME devs are trying to "dumb it down" too much, etc.

I guess it's mostly about personal preference, here's what I recommend: start with Ubuntu when 8.04 comes out, then you can download the "kubuntu-desktop" package. That will give you KDE also. Then when you log in (under options or session or something at the GDM screen) you can choose KDE or GNOME. Just try both out and see what you like!

EDIT: And yes, if you download a KDE app while using GNOME, that KDE app depends on certain KDE libraries, etc. which Ubuntu will automatically download for you (and vice-versa). It may look a little out of place and take a bit longer to start up an app for the other desktop environment, but it should work.

fluxbox ftw!

kde3 has got everything you need, but it's heavyweight
gnome is more simple but lacks of something
kde4 looks promising but it's not ready yet

Yes, they are basically the same distribution.
Personally I prefer KDE, but I don't like what Kubuntu does to KDE.
If you want to know what I mean, compare a KDE Live CD (for instance openSUSE or Mandriva) with Kubuntu.
IMHO, openSUSE has the most polished KDE desktop.

I am thinking about downloading openSUSE tomorrow. Is it good? I'm feeling attracted to the KDE version right now for some reason.

Question:

On their website it talks about downloading via BitTorrent. I know that Transmission is a good Mac OS X BitTorrent client so I downloaded it and just attempted to open the openSUSE .torrent file in it and it worked. Should I download via that or Http/Ftp?

And is downloading openSUSE via Transmission legal? Is it a legitimate file or does it contain a virus or trojan? Pretty sure it is safe.

lol, torrent protocol is not illegal, piracy is illegal, linux is freely distributable.
as long as transmission does check the hash of the file, you're sure that the download is good, always use md5 to crosscheck the hash you find on the website tho

Oh good idea. I forgot about md5.

Thanks.

I prefer Gnome, stable and ergonomic

KDE here. Used the 3.x series for years and stable as OS X.


Http/Ftp is likely to be faster for releases that have been out for some time. (fewer seeders on bittorrent)
Best bet is try both and see if one is considerably faster. (torrent speeds fluctuate so minor differences probably are insignificant)

Ubuntu. By far.

Because of Gnome, yes, but overall it seems like Ubuntu is the "real" distro, as opposed to Kubuntu being the "little brother" with KDE.

Personally, I like Gnome much better than the KDE interface, and also like the apps that come with it (okay, amarok is orgasmic, I know).

Regardless of which distro you have, you can install the other gui - I have ubuntu but can boot into a KDE or Gnome session. Therefore, the discussion essentially boils down to which gui's native apps you like better. Maybe it's because I spend more time in Gnome, but I prefer its apps and the "human" interface much more than KDE's "blue" interface.

Well, I installed Ubuntu 7.10 (GNOME) in Parallels successfully. I tried the thing with installing KDE along side it, but it didn't work. Oh well, I guess I like GNOME.

The only thing is that I really want to try Konqueror. For those who use Linux all of the time, you would probably say it's "not that great", but I want to test it and try other K apps too.

So I've started to download openSUSE. I paused it, wondering if I should download Kubuntu or just keep downloading openSUSE.

I also have the option to clone my current Ubuntu installation and try to put KDE over it, which actually might work. parm289, can you give me the exact code to do what you did with installing KDE on Ubuntu?

You literally install kde as an application if I'm not mistaken. I did this a while ago, but I'm pretty sure you'll find it in Add/Remove or Synaptic. Shoot me a pm if you can't find it and I'll see if I can help you out.

Actually I find Konqueror quite good.


Well, try both. I am pretty sure once you try openSUSE you won't go back


http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/kde

Ubuntu is good. Just ordered 4 free CDs from Ubuntu ShipIt (Ubuntu Desktop 32 bit, Ubuntu Desktop 64 bit, Ubuntu Server 32 bit, and Ubuntu Server 64 bit). All come in professionally labeled discs plus you get 4 free Ubuntu stickers to stick all over your compy

Novell made a mess of OpenSUSE 10.3 with KDE, they put alpha KDE4 in and replaced the KDE3 ones, very bad mixing stable with unstable alpha stuff. Novell are driven to get KDE4 out as default without realizing it's very buggy and lacking in features and apps.

Free=good is not always true. Some of the best things in life are not free. Besides I don't like unfair competition. SUSE used to cost $90 before Novell took it over, and I was quite happy to pay for quality.



How did you come to that conclusion? Not only KDE4 in not the default, but you can easily deselect it when you install (or later, for that matter). I have chosen to have both KDE3 and KDE4 installed and they don't interfere with one another in any way. Besides I have easily upgraded the original KDE4 alpha to KDE 4.0.3, which is quite stable.

Quality is in the eye of the beholder, but free stuff is always better than having to pay for something no matter what. Because if you get something for free and find out if it is crap, you can then throw it away (cause it was free) and go buy the quality stuff. Whereas, if you buy something and it is crap, you just wasted money.

In any case the only difference between Ubuntu and the other distros is that you have to download the latter (for free). As nowadays almost everybody has a fast internet connection, it makes hardly a difference. Besides I am pretty sure a lot of people do download Ubuntu, in order to get it faster.

Your not getting what I'm saying, by default they install KDE4 alpha games with a stable SUSE 10.3 KDE3.5 install, the games themselves were not even finished and replaced KDE3 games. I've tried 10.3 and found it quiet disturbing they even did this by default mixing alpha with stable for a default KDE install.

I agree KDE 4.0.3 is much better but at the time of opensuse 10.3 release it was very poor.

OK, but I never accept the default install of any distribution, except when there is no choice to change anything.

Whats the beef with Ubuntu anyway? I for one see no problem with it, why don't you like it? Other than on a PPC iMac I have never had any problems on Ubuntu except for that one time I forgot my password, which was reset anyway in safe mode or whatever

Actually I haven't said that I don't like Ubuntu in this thread.
What I actually said:
1)I don't like what Kubuntu does to KDE
2)I don't like unfair competition.
That is all.

Why is it unfair?

Between the two, Ubuntu. The Ubuntu team's focus on KDE is getting worse and worse. Kubuntu 8.04 is terrible, and the KDE4 "remix" should be a criminal offense.

That being said, OpenSUSE 11 blows both of them away.



What? KDE4 wasn't even around when openSUSE 10.3 was released. The only way to get KDE4 on 10.3 is on the very alpha KDE4 LiveCD. OpenSUSE 11 is the first REAL KDE4 OpenSUSE.

Yes it was, they mixed KDE4 alpha games with their KDE3.x.

I confirm that too.

I find it unfair when a multimillionaire backs anything with huge amounts of many.
In the Linux world, where most distributions, except maybe for openSUSE and Fedora (and Mandriva, to a much lesser extent) are penniless, putting millions into backing your distribution is definitely "unfair competition" and not in the true spirit of Open Source. Nobody can tell me that Debian or Slackware, "poor" distributions, aren't better than Ubuntu just because they can't afford to advertise their distros everywhere and send free Cds to everybody who asks.
Anybody who thinks different is a beggar and can be bought with peanuts.
I am particularly touchy about this issue because my countrymen have just elected as Prime Minister one of the most rich and corrupted men on Earth.



When you install openSUSE, unless you go for the defaults and click next, Microsoft style, you are in charge.

Stop trying confuse words with what suit you about OpenSUSE, just face the fact that Novell made a bad discussion in using KDE4 alpha stuff in a stable release. Yes I know you can uninstall it or use KDE3.x but thats not the point.

I have two questions for you here:
1) Why do you feel it's an unfair game when Ubuntu has millions in backing, but you admit that OpenSUSE also has millions in backing? I'd say the playing field is pretty level.
2) Why is making money against the spirit of Open Source? Open Source is about letting others learn from your code and improve it. Despite what you may read on Digg/Slashdot, open-source has nothing to do with their communistic "nobody deserves to profit from this!" attitudes. Let's face it, at the end of the day, three of the four major Linux players (Red Hat, Novell, Canonical), are still in it for the money (Debian being the notable exception). Their community-edition software is free only because it's their testing grounds for their cash cow: enterprise software.

Indeed. That's probably why I never encountered them: all the stupid games, garbage apps, and false-sense-of-security software gets nuked when I'm installing.

And what is the point then, that we should be oh so worried about the n00bs and the lazy?
openSUSE is a bleeding edge distribution (and yet very stable)
If you don't like it use SLED, RHEL, Debian Stable or Slackware.

He probably needs to be using Ubuntu (if you know what I mean ).

Your talking nonsense now, Novell fund KDE and put money Microsoft's way for their agreement so you get that stuff in OpenSUSE the same. Kernel devs get funded, Google fund Opensource projects.Ubuntu is popular because people like it, not because Mark Stuttleworth uses his millionaire status to market it.I've been using Linux for about seven years man, Slackware and gentoo been there done that just so you know, I know my way around Linux.

Yeah, un unbeatable champion of stabilty



That is a very different matter. Novell money goes towards developing openSUSE, not towards sending free CDs of a very buggy product.



Did I say that? I said that spending millions in order to advertise your distro is against the spirit of Open Source.
Which chance have then the "poor" distributions to survive?

Ubuntu is no more buggy then OpenSUSE, they drink from the same cup. OpenSUSE updater and YaST is not buggy

Again, that is different. Funding development is different than throwing millions into advertising.



Sure, and I saw 1000 pigs flying today. That is why one of the most corrupted men on earth got elected as Italian Prime Minister, not because he owns 5 televisions, dozens of newspaper and magazines...
It is a shame I am not a millionaire. If I were, I'd be sending openSUSE CDs/DVds to everybody who asks. I am sure I'd prove my point.



OpenSUSE updater and YaST are not buggy at all
They are only slow in 10.3, which has already been solved in 11 Beta 1.

You should get over your problem with Ubuntu, it's just sad. I bet Mark uses mind control as well to get his Ubuntu users.

It's not like Novell dont have a few million in the bank or Redhat, yer by the way Redhat devs do alot of work for Linux tech that we all use, IBM with Udev, I can go on.

I have nothing against Ubuntu per se.
I have a lot against their practices:
1)They started by stealing all their initial code from Debian.
2)All their releases have been buggy as hell. That is something I don't fully understand. Only if you do it on purpose you can release something that buggy.
3)They have brainwashed people with their nonsense: "Linux for human beings", a shit-brown theme which was supposed to be the best thing after sliced salami, but especially their free CDs.
I remember exactly how things went here. All my friends were Gentoo users, some used Slackware.
Then they heard about the free CDs and they went mad. Even the most die-hard, ubergeek Slackware fan moved to Ubuntu.

Ah, I see, it's the product-shoving tactics. I can certainly agree with you there.



Bull. Ubuntu is by and far the buggiest major distro. out there. The Hardy Heron Release Candidate wouldn't even install on my computer! It got to partitioning, and just bombed out with "unable to partition /dev/sda." The OpenSUSE 11 beta 1 got further than that! Don't even get me started on how Gutsy's X crashes hard when I install my video driver.



As Alessandro17 has clarified, there is nothing wrong with having money. It's the crap shill tactics and AOL-style product shoving that Ubuntu uses their money for where the wrong comes in. Maybe they should put that money into some better use like...oh, I don't know, software development? I'll even give them a few good starting points:
Ditch Brasero and implement some real burning software: K3B.
Stop pushing the POS Gtk2 so hard and get on top of Qt4.
Put some actual effort into getting a real KDE4 distro out the door
Make it easier to join a Windows Domain.
Implement a bit of quality control on the included drivers.
No more GNOME. Seriously. It's over, KDE4 is finally a serious competitor to Aqua and Aero. GNOME has been left in the dust, just let it die alreay.

Well said, InorganicMatter

And what about Novell? They could do judt about the same thing. openSUSE has a company behind it which has far moer money than Mark Shuttleworth(that multimillionaire) would ever dream of.
So what if he throws millions into advertising? Good for him. At least it helps people.
Or does it seem unfair because Novell actually charges for openSUSE DVDs? 52€(83$) plus shipping for a DVD in a box and a booklet. Way to go, opensource! It is like Microsoft considering linux distros unfair.

And every openSUSE release steals from KDE, GNOME, OpenOffice, etc etc etc. I think you got the point.

You don't actually believe that, do you?

No one said that. At least it sets Ubuntu apart from all the green/blue themed distros.


...and he can't be fooled by a free CD, can he?


No, it's not bull. It left me with CLI .

You two people have a real problem, your not freesoftware supporters at all if you want another distro to die or GNOME(KDE4 rocks long live KDE and Qt talk) you sound like a elitist.

Microsoft actually sell SuSE on Novell's behalf and I dont see what the issue is with free cd's, your seriously misguided thinking it's popular because of that since just about everyone on the forum downloads it not asks for it. You sound like a pair of jealous distro elistest that Ubuntu is more popular then your own. The idea that Ubuntu stealed from Debian is stupid, so the distros based on SUSE stealed from SUSE, the ones based on Ubuntu stealed from them, utter nonsense.

Linux and free software is about sharing, Ubuntu's upstart some distros are going to use it. Novell did their XGL and compiz in secret and SLED is not free, they offer that for money to the enterprise people. SUSE charged for their product, since when does Ubuntu, as for giving out cd's well guess what, alot of distros do it if they can because you dont need to be a millionaire to do it.

I don't want suse to die, I used suse and it was not that bad but it wasn't that good to sing celestial chores about it. That's all.
Ubuntu is not perfect but it works for most people and doesn't deserve all that bashing.
Maybe I got carried away a bit.

I wasn't pointing the finger at you fatshitcat

We keep going around in circles. Read again everything above.Bullshit. Buying openSUSE is a totally unnecessary luxury, as you can have everything for free.That is not called stealing, because every distro uses what you mention and they contribute back. I call stealing taking everything from another distribution, forking it and pretending that it is yours.I could believe in pigs flying. Other distros are made for animals.Yes he can, and that is my point. Some people sell their souls for a bag of peanuts.How much nonsense can you write in one post? Read everything above and get properly informed about open source.

I am out of here.

Prove me wrong then, I think you'll find it's factually right and not based on hate of SUSE/Novell like you with Ubuntu.

Can you read: I am out of here.
As for your "facts", we have seen how much they stand.

Just to set the record straight.
Ubuntu can be downloaded, and the free cds are a totally unnecesary luxury aswell.

And since when is secret that ubuntu is based on debian? They aren't pretending this.


Now this is getting really, really insane. Take a chill pill man, so what if there are people who like what you don't, why are you taking this so seriously?
You are right in some areas, i was posting to prove you wrong and stop considering opensuse God's operating system.

cheers

Novell sold their souls to Microsoft thinking they were patent infringing, Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian and others didn't, it says alot about Novell. When they brought SUSE they didn't have a clue, most companies have a clue when buying something to make it better.

No one wants to see another distro. die. It will die, however, if it keeps clinging to GNOME. Like I said, KDE4 won the battle and is on the way to winning the war, so stop prolonging the agony.



The only involvement Microsoft has is they officially support SUSE Linux along with their server software. If you call Microsoft and say "hey, how I can authenticate my SUSE users against an Active Directory?" they will help you. If you asked them that same question for any other ditsro, they'd tell you to go jump in a lake.



SUSE only charges for their enterprise products and support, same as Ubuntu charges for enterprise support.



No souls were sold. Novell worked with Microsoft to get SUSE hooked tightly into Active Directories. It is the ONLY distro where you can just tell it "join this Active Directory" during setup, and it just works! No other distro in the world can do that.

By the way, if you want to get into boycotting Novel products, you need to boycott these as well:
http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects