They're getting there, very slowly. Apple just keeps seeding new builds to developers, even though the previous ones don't have any known bugs. But it seems that Apple wants to get it right with this update, and they are certainly going to try. The latest seed of 10.5.2, 9C27, swells even more and fixes more than 130 bugs.

Other than bug fixes, we can expect List View in Stacks, support for Remote Disk and Time Capsule.

1.2GB!!!!!

holy crap

come on come on!!

I'd rather they take their time and get it right than rush it with bugs.

And OMG to "This will take 1.2 GB of space on your computer.". That's like another whole OS size. Some of my OS X installations are <2 GB which is pretty close to this


EDIT: Damn you socal swimmer, you beat me to it even though I was the first one here

No... it can't be... does that sound a little bit vaguely like Microsoft?

Uh-oh...

I can't wait for this update, is driving me crazy

Cant wait!! this is taking to loooooong!

This should fix a lot of problems and some new features support is also welcomed.

my safari encountered white screen of death .. that's a bug?!

The update doesn't make the system any more noticably slower, so no need to panic just because the extracted size ends up being 1.2gb.. it just takes up a bit of drive space. =x

I have no worries at all have loads of hard space at my disposal!

maybe it only takes up a 100mb and the rest is just replacing old bugged files !?

no wait it says, this will TAKE 1,2gb

ohwell, so the small sized osx days are over. get tiger if you want smaller.

I wouldn't worry about it just yet. A lot of stuff refers to taking up vast amounts of space, however it is just for decompression and compression and really doesn't use all of that space but during the install procedure.

Hope that update will work without any problems on the hackintoshs maybe they need so long to block our projects

I didn't know there were so many bugs... I only found a couple

*Keeps pressing the software update button*

Also, did you know that if you press Option and then on the Apple icon, you get get into system profiler instantly?
(I kept using spotlight >_<)

Well I'm going crazy waiting for this update. I swear if I don't get some 10.5.2 update goodness soon my head will explode.

Actually, the previous seeds did/do have bugs. Some of which are/were rather serious and others were even introduced in new builds.

Bear in mind that Apple uses the .2 update as their most extensive issue resolving and stability update. This is unlike the .1 update which is used to address the most serious of issues in the shortest time possible. We do all want Apple to get things right don't we?

Actually, 9C23(or whatever the previous seed was) didn't have any known bugs. Nor does this one.

I am still hitting the Software Update button twice a day...
It is better to hold a bit, than wait again for 10.5.3.

I think it's good that 10.5.2 will fix so many issues, but still I think that shows clearly that Leopard wasn't a finished/final product when it was released - I guess Apple just released it earlier because they set themselves under pressure with the release date (end of October 2007).

^^ ditto on that, Cyman. 130+ bugs is a lot. Personally, I just hope they get Safari's DOM engine to run better. As of now, stuff like google maps, gmail, etc. are pretty crippled (hope that's not just me though). Oh, and I guess the new graphics updates will be nice too

Also, I can't help but notice that everyone commenting in this thread is an Intel user. Are you guys expecting little-to-no patching when the update drops? I don't think us AMD users are going to be so lucky, even with Marvin's utility and EFI Anyone care to comment?

Criiiiiickey, now thats a hefty package you got there.

I'm sorry but i disagree with that statement completely. What os does not update their OS? IT Would be un loyal like and unprofessional to not update their software daily. Sir i beleive you use Windows or Microsoft products. Just because they does not say their arent bugs. Does not mean they arent exploitable to a extent of any customer knowledge that's a big problem with closed source software really.
Fixing bugs means they are perfected their products. All software has bugs if it has a lot of code. Nothing is bug less . Never let any company tell you otherwise. Software always needs to be updated because software is always changing into greater, stronger sources and technologies. Mainly Operating systems and Security and compatibility.

Excuse me, did you have a look on my signature? I am a Mac user! Of course it is normal that a OS keeps being patched constantly, I am not naive, I have been using Windows for over twelve years until I switched to Apple. I would have done so years before, if I had had the money to afford a Mac. Anyway, it is the pure size of the upcoming 10.5.2 update and the great number of bugfixes which makes me conclude that Leopard was an unfinished product when it was released!

If I may defend Cyman's statement, I think all he was trying to say was that Apple should have waited a bit longer before jumping the gun and releasing Leopard when they did. It's obvious that any piece of software is going to have bugs - but sometimes there are small bugs, and sometimes there are big bugs. Leopard clearly has some big bugs, and not only that, but it has many bugs. If you don't believe that, then remember that they are fixing 130+ of them in 10.5.2, and that's after the release of 10.5.1. That means that 10.5 started with perhaps over 200 bugs. I'm no OS developer, but that seems like a hefty number. So perhaps pushing the initial release back a month would have helped a bit and saved some headaches? Or not? They say there's no better beta test than the final release to the public, right? It's all theory - I just like to analyze a bit too much Regardless, I'm never in a hurry to receive something if it means that the end product will save me some hassles in the end. Hell, I'd gladly wait another month for Apple on this 10.5.2 update if it meant not having to anticipate a much-needed 10.5.3 release two weeks later. I can tell by the howls in these forums that I am definitely alone on this issue

cheers,
agra

I agree with you agrafuese. Of course I and everbody else was so excited about Leopard, but I guess there would have been less excitement by the end of October if Apple had said they'd release 10.5 by Christmas. So, of course the people urged Apple to release it like promised and the other way round Apple would have lost credibility (it's all about the image of a company like Apple, think about the Apple stocks and how they rise and fall, so a delay could quickly resolve in a drop of the Apple stocks value) and therefore money! And as you said, Apple is also totally right concerning their beta test quote! Anyway it's way better to release a reliable and stable program than doing the opposite, which can result in even bigger losses than postponing a product (a good example is the XBOX360 fault rate - although it all seems to be more of a part of MS (long-time) strategy to increase/improve it's market position). But of course we all know that OS X is a good and reliable product despite the fact that Leopard may contain a huge number of bugs. In the end I remember a lot of users who wanted it as fast as possible whining about Leopard and the deception following when they finally had it installed! People (especially a great number of Apple users) never seem to be satisfied, but then worship Steve Jobs and everything from Apple Inc. like it was a religion!

leopard was not unfinished !!!

not perfect, but not unfinished.

it's a catch22 , lot's of companies, don't push forward, to integrate, or even admit any problems,
because it's not available, there might be one view who actuall do work with the prerelease,
but coorporate side, is, most have no access, especially , since it's not released yet,....catch22,

so most of those bugs in leopard, are third party software related,... others, are hardware fixes,
do more extensive testing,...and fixing new stuff,...
one more, better support for new hardware, aka penryn processor, what has various size cache,
and couple more power saving features.

one thing, I've been waiting for , not seen any change
- graphics, aka quicktime, is useing cpu only for playback, where in windows it gets support,
as such, the cpu runs tilt, hotter, runs down battery, ....
- graphics, new radeons, and nvidia, have power saving features, to turn of vector units, not in use,
especially in notebooks, welcome, on dektops, still run full tilt,....powered
- NTFS file support, it's fundamental, since it's so prevalent, does not integrate well, if not available,
and I mean , read write,
- EXT3 linux file support, linux is huge, compared to mac osx,
- ZFS support,.....
now if mac osx leopard, can have access to the vast majority of filesystems, it will make great strides at that point,
until then, it will take another generation, to break the 0.5% mark

The patching? If the final update is really that big, there's going to be issues unless one is running stock kernel and EFI. It's not just the AMD users that'll have issues--it's everyone who's running any patched kernel (including the SSE2-only systems and those of us who can't run Leo with EFI).

DVD-RAM support,....

forgot that one,... such an great idea, such a horrible mess,....

one thing , apple was good, to implement postscript, pritty clean,
where others, even today, can't read the specs,....

my picture numberrzzzz

Maybe...

9C23 does in fact have bugs hence the release of 9C27. Just because they're not obvious doesn't mean they aren't there nor significant enough for Apple to immediately address.

It's not as if Apple are simply releasing new builds for the fun of it.

The amount of bugs in Leopard are disappointing, really. I know of many people with legit Intel macs, who are having all kinds of issues with Leopard. For Intel and G5 Macs, Leopard is definitely an improvement over Tiger. I just feel that more of these should have been taken care of before the GM/RTM release of Leopard. Still, at least they are fixing this many bugs. Post 10.5.2 Leopard will be the best and most stable OS X yet (hopefully )

10.5.2 update will fix many of the issues in Leopard and hopefully will become even more reliable than ever!

I haven't had any real problems with leopard stability so far.

Stacks is annoying... and so are the gross aqua elements poorly transfered into the new UI. But there is no way they will fix that....

I wonder if it'll fix the 10 second timeframe I wait everytime I turn off my computer. The fan still stays on and I have to wait or else goes into perma-sleep and I have to manually power off. There's even some times when the fan just stays on. Like it's just chilling on even after I get out the shower, which is about 20mins afterward.

I wish I have those bugs on XP or Vista, I would spend less time fixing things.

Yeah, sorry. When I said that, I was thinking about Intel users that are running EFI/Vanilla kernel versus everyone else (not just AMD users). Thanks for clearing that up. Still it seems I remember reading in the other 10.5.2 news thread that Stellarolla (or someone else?) was having issues with his vanilla kernel and the dev seeds. He still had to patch something...I think? Maybe I read that wrong. Too lazy to look up that post now But man, that would be nice if EFI/vanilla systems are able to run the update straight up! Now is the time I wish I had an Intel hackintosh. Maybe I'll be able to scrape together the cash for one before 10.5.2 comes out. Looks like I've got some time

I guess the competition between the two (read MS and Apple) resulted in both releasing an incomplete OS... Vista with SP1 applied to it is a complete other OS... Maybe the same wil apply to 10.5.2 as well? Although 10.5 is not running too bad on my system...

Yeah, let's better don't even mention Vista, although MS tries hard to force users to migrate to it, I think it could have the same fate as Windows ME back in the days! I mean, XP still seems to be superior to Vista in terms of speed and reliability (driver support etc.), so if MS can't fix this and other things, I think Vista won't ever be a big success. Most of the sold copies are sold as OEM with new computers - well so does Leopard, too you may say, but I think if the conscious user had a choice he would pick XP - look at Dell, offering more PC's with optional XP again.

Oh, about running Leopard on my MBP I have to say it doesn't run bad, but a few days ago I had a number of Kernel Panics (six or seven times within two days) which I never had experienced in such a quantity with Tiger - I still couldn't figure out what was the cause. Other than that the only hassle was the installation, but this was more related to booting issues.

Quit freaking out over the 1.2GB number guys, it's probably just swap space. Vista SP1 "requires" several GB to install, but most of that is swap space, and you only lose a couple hundred MB when the install is done and temp files deleted.

I can't wait for them to fix stacks!

Anyone with developer builds, how does it play with EFI/Vanilla?

Just keep in mind, that seeds are usually a lot bigger than the actual final release. This is because it contains a lot of debugging code (mostly 70 or 80 per cent) and the seeds normally aren't optimized. So 1.2 GB may sound big, which it is, but the final release will probably be a lot smaller.

Given the fact we've seen the latest seed Thursday last week, I assume Apple will be ready for release this week, earliest Tuesday.
Or they must be very dedicated to it, and decide to delay it another week so they can fix even more bugs. We'll see.

Phuck Stacks.

well 10.5.2 might be released sometime this week. makes sense too, considering vista sp1 with be available to the public tomorrow.

hahaha! I've never used Vista, but it sounds pretty bad from what everyone says about it. I think comparing it to Windows ME is a pretty low blow though, hahaha. But I did entertain the idea:

Windows ME - Released September 2000
Windows XP - Released October 2001 (13 months after ME)
...then...
Windows Vista - Released January 2007

Well, it's 13 months after the release of Vista...so it looks like MS should be releasing another OS very soon! Actually, to be fair, do you guys remember how major SP2 for Windows XP was? So if you think about it that way, I guess Vista SP1 and Leopard 10.5.2 don't seem like such a big deal after all

if your talking to windows 7 that won't be released until 2011, the 2009 date was just a rumor.

i also assume vista sp1 and leopard 10.5.2 will be shipped around the same time this week.

The comparison is baseless and pushed by people who have no clue.
And 2011 is also a rumour.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1136

Comparing Vista to Me ? People are telling bullshit. Vista ISN'T a failure. Me was.

Lots of end-user, "home users", will use Vista rather than XP. It's just some kind of fashion to say "let's use XP, Vista sucks"....

IMO Vista is better than XP, at least if you have a GOOD PC. People telling otherwise clearly didn't EVEN install it.

i was joking when i said MS should be releasing a new OS soon. lighten up guys! let's laugh a little!

like these guys --->

I originally started using vista just for dx10 with my games, but my desktop is so nice(not to brag) that I can still max out any game except Crysis(and alt+tab just fine, too).

[edit]
Ah {censored}, my Vista install will be broken with SP1. Gotta find another workaround....