newtech's comment about being a MacPro1,1 logic board makes perfect sense. You might have some success with the MacPro2,1 (ie V2) logic board. I am very interested in how it turns out because the Harpertowns offer lower heat = less fan speed = less noise AND 12MB of cache

As for Mac hardware knowledge, we are chartering some unexplored waters. There is some knowledge out there but not a lot as Mac's in general have not been very upgradable and we are stumbling along blindly.

A reputation goes a long way... if they continue to design solid hot-rod hardware they won't be disappearing anytime soon. Competition is good for the consumer and for technology. They can dominate both hardware and software if they go in for the Microsoft Kill!!!

Apple is a lot less forthcoming with system descriptions and hardware documentation than they were in years past. Detective work turns up a lot of theory and background information, but theory only gets you so far. Sometimes it is about experimenting, and sometimes that comes hard or at a cost.

Oddly some experimenters jealously guard their results, or do not report them at all. Nagal has done the community a great service with his documentation here. I am happy to throw in my $0.02 wherever possible.

I may be totally wrong here, as I am not a Mac Pro builder, only a Mac Pro owner.

My assumption has always been that the first generation Mac Pros used an Intel 5000x chip set which supports the 51xx and 53xx series of Xeons.

The second generation (Jan 2008) uses an Intel 5400x chip set which supports the 54xx Xeons, being the Harpertown 45nm fab series.

So depending on which chipset is on the logic board purchased, that will dictate which of the Xeons it will support.

Intel also switched chipsets on the desktop boards to support the new 45nm Penryn chips as well.

same here... I value knowledge and human evolution... intellectual property should be protected but not hidden ; it's not like we're sharing nuclear secrets with North Korea... My pics and detailed information coming soon... I plan on dissecting Apples Power supply and offer illustrations along with measurements and possible non-apple PS replacements. Will do same for logic board and everything else I can get my hands on...


http://www.intel.com/products/server/chips...chips_body+servIntel

Server Chipsets


No mention of 53XX support by 5000X... am I blind?...Anyway, nagal can you read a chipset on your ver 2 logic board?

As usual, I probably need my assumptions adjusted.

According to this Intel processor comparison, picking similar processors from the 54xx (45nm) and 53xx (65nm) family, both say they are supported by the 5000 chip set.

http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.asp...p;culture=en-US

Only time will tell. Now I'm very interested in this outcome.

I found this and posted it a few pages back

http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.asp...p;culture=en-US

It seems to imply that ANY of the 54xx processors should work with the 5000X Chipset.

Cool, so the only thing that might be questionable will be the firmware on the logic board.

That is my thinking that it is a firmware issue. But if it is a firmware issue we are screwed as I see no way around that.

Yes, Intel advertises 54xx work with the 5000X chipset, at a maximum FSB of 1333 MHz. No good reason why 54xx would not work in MP 1,1/2,1 other than SMC firmware not handling them properly.

you guys are the F**king BEST!!! You guys can break bread with me anytime! Nagal, anyway to patch the firmware if that's the case?

I am sure there is but it is WAY beyond my skills as I found out with my 1st logic board that came with an Apple Development Firmware.

My on-going research is dissecting SMC firmware and bootROM and their installers. Sadly my progress is slow and has turned up little helpful info so far, reading undocumented source code is like trying to read japanese when you don't speak it.

I have a silly question, what's the difference between LGA 771 and Socket 771? Compatible? Newegg has Clovertown Xeons, however, they're socket 771.

According to wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_socket

socket J is the type for both...

Socket 771 and LGA 771 are the same thing for the most part. I believe in correct usage LGA 771 refers to the actually CPU while Socket 771 refers to the socket type of the motherboard or in our case logic board. You are fine as long as you stay 771 but note that Intel does make LGA 775 Xeons which are super inexpensive but won't work for us.

Firmware Update:I just tried the Mac Pro EFI Update and got the message saying you do not need this update instead of the message that use to say update not for this product or something like that. So, I am finally really recognized as a Mac Pro

Interesting note is the current EFI update gives a firmware of MP21.007F.B06 for MacPro 2,1. The firmware on my logic board is MP21.007F.B08. Looks like I got a slightly newer firmware than whats available. Makes me feel special

I also "fixed" my About this Mac and System Profiler to show data more appealing to me. I could have put in anything but I just wanted it to reflect the truth





It would be nice to actually have 3.0 Ghz but looks like my ES must have been bottom of the barrel due to the clock speed only being 8x instead of 9x. If digitalperformers Harpertown experiment works, I will probably start saving up for those. For now 8 x 2.4 GHz is working well for me. Running Logic last night on a new song with some pretty heavy VI and Effects, computer did not even break a sweat.

Hey nagal, you could also fix the serial if you wanted with an edit to system profiler (SPPlatform Reporter).

"System Serial#"="M3405946578";

Or whatever number is on your board.

The Xeon connection is called Socket J the physical contacts are a Land Grid Array (of) 771(contacts), the contacts are called lands as opposed to pins on earlier package types. The switch form pins to lands accomplished a few things, first eliminated the posibility of bent or broken pins. Second provided a more reliable Zero Insertion Force to be used to install the CPU. Third, lands can accept a higher current density reducing the number of connections required to carry power.

The better solution on the serial number would be Blank Board Serializer, should you be able to find or get a copy.

Nagal and NEWTECH!!! thank you for the clarification; it certainly helps. As you can tell I'm a Digital Performer advocate.. I love it to death. I also like logic but DP has been my faithful squeeze, never let me down... If Apple implements user correctable pitch correction I might consider using logic more often. I heard next DP release will have distributive network processing... DROOLLLLLL..

ApplePalace called me to confirm shipment has been made; now the wait game.... Nagal, applepalace's rep told me that he spoke to another person who was doing the same thing as me... I started to smile Let the build begin!!!!

Newtech,

Yes BBS would be the way to go, but I was not aware you could find the cd unless you were an Apple tech. Is it available as a download? I think the latest versions allow you to enter a serial only if there is not one there already, so nagal should be OK.

Personally I have looked high and low and under many rocks for BBS without success, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there in the wild somewhere. The one shot version is the only one distributed to AASP's, the unlimited one is closely guarded by Apple as it can have potential for horrible abuse.

Technically the MLB S/N is not the system S/N or else it would be embedded already. The system S/N is the one on the case sticker.

What does "BBS" mean in these terms?

BBS = Blank Board Serializer, a utility that flashes a serial number into the flashEEPROM on service part/refurbished motherboards. Some rare applications will not run on a machine that does not have a hardware serial number in ROM. Also Apple tracks warranty satus by system serial number.

Anytime a logic board is swapped out by an AASP the new board SHOULD be flashed to match with the S/N on the case/enclosure and have new MAC address labels applied to match the MAC address on the boards ethernet controller.

Hey nagal, so how have you actually been recognised as a Mac Pro now? Via just using official Apple parts or did you have to do any flashing to anything? Also do you have a link to some Dual Core Xeons? I only want a 4 core machine, preferably a UK site.

Thanks man! We should start a Mac Pro blog to help fellow builders =]

BBS would be ideal but Text Edit works in a pinch. I wonder if I take it into my local Apple repair place if they will flash the serial number for me? Something tells me I doubt it For SystemProfiler I had to use the key "System Sal#" instead of "System Serial#". That is the serial # from the case and it is a good one with Apple too as I found that out when I called them when trying to figure out how to force flash the EFI. Of course, if I took my Mac Pro into an Apple Store I am sure some eyebrows would be raised.






Kimosabe, the only "hack" I had to do to get my system recognized as a Mac Pro was to use an actually release Mac Pro logic board


I am thinking of doing a fresh re-install of Leopard so it will say "michael-whiteheads-MacPro2,1"" instead of "michael-whiteheads-m43adp11". Yes if you haven't figured it out, little things like that drive me nuts!

Or just change your Computer Name under Sharing.

oh sweet! I did not know it was going to be that EASY. Of course I am still an OS X noob.

Yup. =3

Yay thanks Nagal, do you know what Dual Core Xeons I am going to need? I don't want to end up buying the wrong ones =[

Kimosabe, dual core Xeons are 51xx and 52xx, stick with the 51xx as 52xx may not work.

Dual core Xeons

E5110 1.6 GHz ( 1066 MHz FSB BSEL mod to 2.0 GHz )

E5120 1.86 GHz ( 1066 MHz FSB BSEL mod to 2.33 GHz )

E5130 2 GHz

E5140 2.33 GHz

E5148 2.33 GHz ( low power, lower TDP vs E5140 )

E5150 2.66 GHz

E5160 3.0 GHz

If you have a choice go with SLAxx over SL9xx sSpec.


http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/dept.asp?dept%5Fi...FSB+%26+1333FSB

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B...281&sr=1-20

Thanks Nagal! But damn they sure are pricey =O I was hoping for like 2.66GHz and they're over £200 each. Hmm.. looks like I'm gonna have to get eBaying... lol

Yeah the LGA 771 Xeons are not cheap but that is the price you pay to be able to use multiple processors. Since you only want a QuadCore I think you can get away with using a single QuadCore Xeon. That should drop the cost a bit. I say *I think* because I know the 5000X chipset supports using a single processor even in a dual processor board but I do not know if Apple did anything in their firmware to make that not work.

Hmm I'd be safer buying 2 Dual Cores.. just for like precaution

Just took a look on that PCBuyIt site and it has 2.66GHz processors and 2.830GHz processors. The 2.830GHz processor is cheaper than the 2.66GHz one, what's the difference?

Can you post model numbers? Intel does not list a 2.83 GHz Dual Core. There is a 2.83 GHz Quad Core but no one knows right now if that is going to work in the older logic boards.

Ah right. I'll just stick with the expensive 2.66's lol thanks Nagal.

Next stop, selling things on eBay =P

Hey guys... just got my applepalace delivery.... ohhh soo happy... Could someone please do me a favor and trace out the PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 power supply extention cables ( cables in line between Power Supply and Logic Board ); need to know if points on connector to connector correspond (Multimeter would be best / Visual ok); I am somewhat appauled that these cables cost 50+ on retailers site... Let the build begin... Lets DO IT!!!!! Thank you very very very very much you guys.... This forum is the best!!!!!!!!

I will do my best to get that done tonight but cannot make any promises as I tried to get it done this weekend as well but started a new song in Logic so my free time disappeared very rapidly.

Nagal... thank you. Anything you can do is very much appreciated. Ok guys, Mac Pro Power Supply exact label specs and description: Ordered stock number #661-4309 ***Delta Electronics Inc. Model: DPS-980AB B Rev:00F Apple Part Number:614-0407 Input 100-240VAC, 50-60Hz, 12-5A Output: [V1 +12.0VDC / 18.8A] [V2 +12.0VDC / 18.8A] [V3 +12.0VDC / 16.5A] [V4 +12.0VDC / 12.8A] [V5 +12.0VDC / 18.0A] [V6 +12.0VDC / 11.0A] [SB +5.0VDC / 5.0A] [Max Total Continuous Power is 980W Power Supply has four molex male connector wire bundles.]*** [Bundle J1: 10 pin (16 AWG wire, 300V insulation resistance) Bottom Row: 1, 2, 3 (empty slot / plugged), 4, 5 Top Row: 6, 7, 8 (empty slot / not plugged), 9, 10] [Bundle J2: 10 pin (16 AWG wire, 300V insulation resistance) Bottom Row: 1, 2, 3 (empty slot / not plugged), 4, 5 Top Row: 6, 7, 8 (empty slot / plugged), 9, 10] [Bundle J3: 12 pin (16 AWG wire, 300V insulation resistance) Bottom Row: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Top Row: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12] [Bundle J4: 10 pin (22 AWG wire, 300V insulation resistance) Bottom Row: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Top Row: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]. Bundle J1 connects to PS1 bundle to logic board. Bundle J2 connects to PS2 bundle to logic board. Bundle J3 connects to PS3 bundle to logic board (Main Board Power). Bundle J4 connects to PS4 bundle to logic board. This Power Supply Data Matrix will be amended in the upcoming days when I take it apart and measure pin voltages. Sorry for the sloppy look, couldn't maintain the proper text format will redo and attach in later entry as pdf.

I didn't know you did music, nagal.. =O Now you're even more inspirational. You gonna be recording on the Mac Pro? What type of music do you do?

Well depending on your definition of music determines whether or not what I do is really music Everything I have done so far is sequenced with Virtual Instruments. Someday if I actually manage to finish a song I will record some vocal, God help everyone then. If you want to hear some of the stuff (all rough cuts unfinished) you can check out it out here http://www.myspace.com/digthespace

The new thing I am working on is not there yet. I decided I am going to hold off posting it until its actually done. It seems once I post a song, I can not get back into the groove to finish it.

Actually, the whole reason I started with OSx86 was to try out Logic. As you can see, it stuck A Dark Place and Tearing Me Down were done with Logic 8 with Angels and Deadwood were Cubase 4 (pre OSx86).

So are you officially done with yours

No but very close. The last thing I want to get working is some CPU heat sink sensors. I ordered some MMBT3904 from Mouser (the link is a few pages back) to construct some sensors based on the SMSC document newtech linked to. They are going to arrive today or tomorrow and hopefully that will do the trick. It is not major to get them working but I would like to put the Apple OEM fans back in.

Nagal, sorry to ask of you so much but if you have time could you try to boot off of FP_USB (2.5 inches NorthWest of CPU socket A). It's a SATA male on the Logicboard. I'm really curious if it would work as a SATA port. Thanks dude... hit me up if I can help you with anything audio / video recording - computer wise... Have a fine collection if you get my drift.

No you cannot boot off that as it is not a SATA port. The plug is the interconnect to the Front Panel Assembly. I catch your drift and thanks but I am good in that department. I find TOO much choice hinders my work flow.

Okay got the PSU cabling pinned out. First some VERY IMPORTANT stuff.

1. This pinout is CONNECTOR to CONNECTOR. Not Connector to Jack
2. I ALWAYS count the top left pin as 1 with the top row directly below the key.
3. For ME the key is the little plastic piece on the connector that is used to latch or lock the connector to the jack
4. XX is used to show no connection in that plug
5. KK is used to show where the key is
6. Layouts are shown as if you are looking at them directly with the Key pointing AWAY from you.
7. All of the PSU connectors had Male Pins while all the logic board connectors had Female pins
8. Every key was always dead center of the connector.

Let the fun begin

PSU #1 connects with the jack labeled V6 down by the memory risers. There are 2 jacks there but only one seemed to be labeled. V6 is the one CLOSEST to the logic board edge.

PSU #1 lay out.
------KK
01 02 XX 04 05
06 07 XX 09 10

V6 PLUG Layout
------KK
01 02 XX 04 05
06 07 XX 09 10

V6-01 -> P1-05
V6-02 -> P1-04
V6-04 -> P1-02
V6-05 -> P1-01
V6-06 -> P1-10
V6-P7 -> P1-09
V6-09 -> P1-07
V6-10 -> P1-06

PSU #2 connects with the jack labeled V2. This is across from CPU Socket #2 by the long thin heat sink

PSU #2 Layout
------KK
01 02 XX 04 05
06 07 XX 09 10

V2 PLUG Layout
------KK
01 02 XX 04 05
06 07 XX 09 10

V2-01 -> P2-05
V2-02 -> P2-04
V2-04 -> P2-02
V2-05 -> P2-01
V2-06 -> P2-10
V2-P7 -> P2-09
V2-09 -> P2-07
V2-10 -> P2-06

PSU #3 connects with the jack labeled V5. This is the one right by the IPass connector, IDE jack

PSU #3 layout
--------KK
01 02 03 04 05 06
07 08 09 10 11 12

V5 PLUG layout
--------KK
01 02 03 04 05 06
07 08 09 10 11 12

V5-01 -> P3-06
V5-02 -> P3-05
V5-03 -> P3-04
V5-04 -> P3-03
V5-05 -> P3-02
V5-06 -> P3-01
V5-07 -> P3-12
V5-08 -> P3-11
V5-09 -> P3-10
V5-10 -> P3-09
V5-11 -> P3-08
V5-12 -> P3-07

PSU #4 connects with the 2nd smaller jack near the memory raisers. I saw no label for it but it is the one CLOSEST to the memory raiser slot.

PSU #4 Layout
------KK
01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10

Unlabeled PLUG layout
------KK
01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10

UL-01 -> P4-05
UL-02 -> P4-04
UL-03 -> P4-03
UL-04 -> P4-02
UL-05 -> P4-01
UL-06 -> P4-10
UL-07 -> P4-09
UL-08 -> P4-08
UL-09 -> P4-07
UL-10 -> P4-06

I cannot stress ENOUGH that I measured CONNECTOR to CONNECTOR. Pin orientation will change when going to the jack.

Nagal, just a quick question about the case. I have found Mac Pro cases and I am just wondering does it matter what sort of logic board you put into the case? Like are there specific cases for the quad core capable Logic Board?

Thanks =]

I do not think it matters. My case is the older Octo Core case and both logic boards I used fit with out problem.

Sweet thanks, I've found a bargain =D £100 for a case. I just wanna see if it comes with all the inner casings!

Doh! I had a major brain fart. My case is the older OCTO core as in before 2008. No idea why I wrote Quad.

Mac Pro 1,1 enclosure 922-7346

Mac Pro 2,1 enclosure 922-8000

Mac Pro 3,1 enclosure 922-8493

nagal awesome work!!! You're the man!!! A little confusion, in essence the four bundles of cables are just extenders from the power supply's connectors to the logic board receptacles; for example pin # 1's wire from the power supply will correspond to pin one of the receiving MLB receptacle, as if it was directly plugged into the logic board without the bundle extender. I was thinking of saving 200 bucks by extending the power supply leads by splicing longer wires in between the PS and the immediate connector; applepalace rapes on frickin simple 12 and 10 conductor molex connectors and wires; $49-54 per bundle... OHHHH Please... $2 for a pair of those molex connectors and wire is practically nothing; I think I'll make those bundles and sell them for cost and shipping... I hate consumer raping!!!! I'm really happy that there is so much interest in building genuine mac pros... I've been reading very encouraging entries and admire the ambition. I'm half-way complete with parts purchases, and ultimately strive to show that it's possible to assemble a fully functional mac-pro (not a hackpro but custom) that undercuts a retail model ($3033.00 after taxes) of equivalent specs for $1000-$1200 less. If you own a mac-pro, and aren't intimidated by looking inside your tower, please help in the quest for knowledge by posting closeup photos, descriptions; if possible simple circuit reverse engineering with a multimeter ( Like Nagal's great reference on the Power Supply) to simplify a circuit i.e front panel board... I'll do my best to do same but I'm trying to limit my purchases to essential mac components necessary to get the computer to function. My contributions will be based on substitutable components. Thanks everyone!

My Mac Logic Board ver 2 (MacPro 2,1) Octo dates 2007... # 667-4307