Interesting... If you would like I could upload Rhapsody DR1 PPC to try, or you could use Mac OS X Server 1.0

You're missing an important point:

you have great knowledge about Apple's Operating Systems (Rhapsody + Next/OpenStep in particular) because you've been working with those OS for quite a long time (I suppose).
I could say the same thing about DOS and Windows... I've been using these systems since I was a child (if I remember correctly, I started learning DOS commands when I was 5, on my dad's 80286) and now I know almost every thing of those OS (apart from Vista, which is rather new).

Now I need a reliable OS to work with and I choose OS X because it is the best Operating System around.
I'm aware that there are lots of kids around just wanting to run Rhapsody (or any other "strange" OS) on their pc so they can go to their friends and say "Hey! I've got Rhapsody running on my PC! It's cool!" (I remember I had a friend who said he used Linux on his machine, and when I asked him "what can you do with it?" he didn't reply), but I can assure you I'm not one of those (if you've ever thought it).
I'm trying to do a "reverse" researchment on Rhapsody (instead of searching info about what it is and how it works, I'm trying to have it up and running so I can study it directly inside the OS and discover things by myself), which sometimes can be really hard, but is the best thing (IMO) when I have such a little time to work with it.

I know OS9 cannot be upgraded to Rhapsody, but it can (or better, "might") be used to start a clean installation of Rhapsody.

P.S.: about the "learning how to learn"... there isn't a "standard" way to learn, and you should know it better than me.
The way we approach knowledge differs from guy to guy.
So, it is important to discover our best way of learning (I know, it sounds strange, but I couldn't find the words to properly transmit the idea)... to discover a "method" of learning we feel comfortable with.

"Learning how to learn" I swear Ive heard that before , but still I agree that your right about todays kids being lazy, I know because Ive done my fair share of downloading old OSs ~looks at his download manager that has Server 1.0 in it~ It probably has to do with the explosion of broadband use and the thought that abandoware is legal, yes I know downloading Mac OS X Server is illegal and all, but sometimes piracy has its positives.

For example, in early 2005 I had a friend download the Panther install CDs for me so I could try running Panther in PearPC, as I was curious to try Mac OS X in a non-network sense. Ive never owned a mac before that, and after running Panther for a while, (yes it was horribly slow), I loved Mac OS X. Learning of all the goodies of Tiger, I told my folks that I wanted a Mac for graduation that year, and I chose what I want and it was delivered while I was out at a lake with friends. I can say that without using Panther for free on my own, I would never have gotten a Mac.

Ok maybe thats just one story, but the same thing happened numerous times with me, lets see Halo for Mac, Unreal Tournament for Mac, System Mechanic Pro for Windows, etc.

Dont judge someone just because there interested in downloading software, you never know what will come of it.

*BTW the Mac OS X Server CD requires Mac OS X Server to be installed already so I think that makes it a paradox .* ---v---- thats from the Installing Mac OS X Server pdf.

Installing Mac OS X Server Developer
1. Start up your computer in Mac OS X Server. (Refer to your
Mac OS X Server Installation Manual for more information.)
2. Log in to an account (typically, “root”) that has Administrator privileges.
Installation doesn’t work from accounts with lesser privileges.
The software you install will be available to all users.
3. Insert the Mac OS X Server Developer CD into your computer’s CDROM
drive. You may need to double-click the CD’s icon to open its
main window.
4. Locate the MacOSXServer.mpkg icon on the CD, in the
Mac_OS_X_Server folder. Double-click the icon. The installer for Mac
OS X Server Developer starts and opens the Package Selection dialog
box.
(The other .mpkg icons in the Mac_OS_X_Server folder install Apple’s
WebObjects product. To install these, you must have an appropriate
license from Apple Computer, Inc.)
5. Apple recommends that you perform a Complete installation, as
described next. If you want to select the components to install, follow
the Custom installation instructions instead.
Complete installation
In the Package Selection dialog box, click
Install. For each package, the installer checks for existing files on your
disk and then installs the package files. You get everything you need to
develop Mac OS X Server applications.
The installer may need to overwrite existing files or may need to run
scripts. In these cases it presents one or more alerts. To proceed with
installation, click OK.
Custom Installation
If you want to exclude one or more
components, uncheck them before clicking Install. The following
restrictions apply:
7
• To develop Mac OS X Server applications, you must install both the
Developer Tools and the Developer Libraries packages.
• To honor file dependencies, you must install the Developer Tools
package before the Developer Libraries package.
The installer may need to overwrite existing files or may need to run
scripts. In these cases it presents one or more alerts. To proceed with
installation, click OK.
6. When all the files are installed, the legend in the installer dialog box
changes to Installation Completed. Quit the installer by choosing the
Package
m
Quit menu item, and then restart your computer.

Forgive me, I didn't notice your post.

Of course, you can use Windows, as well as you can use a PPC Mac and use directly Panther with Mac-on-Mac.
But running 4 OS in one machine at the same time is quite a challenge, isn't it?

I haven't asked anyone to use a method... use whatever method you want. But there is only one path to doing research... and that is researching.

I used the same skills hunting down Rhapsody information as I did for researching mathematics. It would be the same skills that would help a historian or archeologist.. or lawyer for that matter.

You say you don't have time to do this, fine. But your loss is not info on Rhapsody, it is the experience of hunting down the information.


Also... I didn't have a computer when I was a kid. I got my first computer at the age of 23. And while I had used (at school and at work) NeXT systems, I could hardly be called an expert at them. I wasn't that good with computers to begin with nor did I need to be (not for my type of mathematics).

And most of my experience was with the classic Mac OS.

I started down this path in 1998 with the purchase of NEXTSTEP because Apple had bought NeXT a couple years earlier and was working on Rhapsody at the time.

By the time I started using Rhapsody daily, Mac OS X Public Beta was already out, and most of the (small) Rhapsody community had already moved onto Mac OS X.

When you were learning DOS and Windows... I highly doubt that you had any problems finding information on those (nearly everyone was using them around you... what choices did you have?). Learning Rhapsody can not be equated to learning DOS. It is far more like learning IRIX, or Solaris, or the BeOS. Information that you have to dig for rather than having it force fed to you.

And that really is the difference. DOS/Windows stuff is everywhere, there is no sport in getting a Windows system up and running.

But systems other than Windows... there is a challenge. With each community you have sources of information. As the communities get smaller and smaller, the information becomes harder and harder to find. The Mac community is small (compared to Windows), but the SGI community is smaller, and the NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP community even smaller still. And the smallest of all seems to be Rhapsody... which is pretty much just me (with occasional visitors).

Think about it, when something goes wrong on one of my systems, who do I turn to? There is only me in the case of my Rhapsody systems.

The best part of Rhapsody (besides having the platform pretty much to myself) is that it is computing without a net.



It is not the Mac OS X Server CD then... what you guys have is the Mac OS X Server Developer and WebObjects CD.

Mac OS X Server 1.0 came with the following media:

1. Mac OS X Server Install CD
2. Developer/WebObjects install CD
3. NetBoot Server CD
4. Third-Party Solutions CD

Mac OS X Server 1.2 (and 1.2v3) came with the following media:

1. Mac OS X Server Install CD
2. Developer/WebObjects install CD
3. NetBoot Server CD
4. Apple Network Assistant CD

So someone made an image of the Developer/WebObjects CD... which is understandable as it is readable by most systems (as it is the same media as the WebObjects 4.0.1 release and has WebObjects for Windows on the same CD... but you need a license string to make it work on Windows).

This is the type of thing I tried to warn you guys about. People who don't know any better make images of media and throw them out on the web... not really knowing what it is they were putting out there.

My guess is that the original person who put that out had never even ran Mac OS X Server on any system... wasn't even sure what it was. He saw it, thought it may be valuable warez... and put up the easiest image he could make.




Guys,

I charge between $50 to $85 per hour for my consulting. So you could say that 1 hour of my time is worth $50 to me.

What is one hour of your time worth to you?

Now multiply that by the number of hours you've spent on chasing down damaged or false copies of Rhapsody.

Wouldn't it have been easier (less expensive time wise) to have bought that copy of Mac OS X Server on ebay back when I pointed it out to everyone. It was under $30.

$30 is less than what an hour of my time is worth, so I wouldn't have spent more than a half hour on this type of thing before realizing that just buying it when it was there would be the best way to go.

Good point RacerX.

Guru

wow, an open firmware graphical editor! O_O
Can you send me a configuration file? maybe is not that impossible to boot the dr1 cd…

Don Luca said:

do you mean on emulator, right? anyway it should start on qemu-system-ppc…


phanter will be fine.


it could work, but i suggest to never say "without problem" referring to mac on mac. it was really buggy…
anyway i think that the booter will find the configuration as unsupported.

Aw. So it isn't really OS X Server?

Well, the configuration is saved in PRAM... that is why you lose the configuration if your battery is dead and you shut down the system.

As for the System Disk utility... you can find that here.

yes, i know that, i'm referring to that "save as a file" button…


unlukely i can't use it since my macs are unsupported, but i can try to edit the open firmware settings manually once i know what the right one are (i did something similar about a year ago…).
also, does the commands bless and nvram exists under rhapsody? if yes can you post the result of theese commands on a neworld mac with rhapsody or mac os x server?



and, with the installer disk inserted, if you can see the secondary loader partition

thanks, maybe is not so impossible!
well, i'm almost sure that is possible to boot the rhapsody system on the cd it, what i don't know is if it will boot to the end or if it will fail with a kernel panic…

I guess I'm not quite sure what you are asking for... there is no bless under Rhapsody that I know of.

As for nvram, this is the contents of /usr/share/nvram/:

As for the question of newworld Macs, this list should give you an idea what Macs are supported (and similarly, could be supported) with Rhapsody 5.3 and later.

When you are talking about Rhapsody 5.0/5.1... I would rule out even the later generations of Beige G3s as possible systems. These installations are very picky. one of the reasons why the 7300 wasn't supported by them is the lack of memory interleaving.

I've done my time with attempts at Rhapsody installation on odd hardware... it really isn't something I'd want to devote any more time on. Back when I did this a PowerMac 8500 was running about $1000 and a 7500 was about $650... today those systems are practically free (I got my 7500, and two 8500 for free).

It seems pretty pointless to spend that effort now when a great Rhapsody system is less than $50 away (CPU, monitor, keyboard and mouse).



But if any of the things you are looking for exist... you should find it in Apple's documentation. The only thing that may help that is not on my site is a book called Rhapsody Operating System Software. Currently I only have this book as a printed/bound manual, I'll see if I can find a PDF version of it. It covers aspects of Rhapsody's Mach OS.

hey RacerX, thanks for posting all the help here, we do need it pritty badly



max

ok, so bless came with os x 10.x…


no, not that folder contants. if you have a mac os x system you can do it on that.
thanks anyway.


yes, this is a list of officially supported macs, i'm trying t install it on an unsupported one…



first: i'm a studente, $50 is not a little money for me
second: i don't have the space for another computer. these imacs are also too close to each other to be used at the same time…
third: wath will i learn by installing it on a suypported system (apart of the os itself)? there is much more learning in trying to run it on an unsupported system, just like i learnt a lot trying of installing mac os x on "dell little boxes" for a year than installing it on my ppc macs for years and years…

I'll take these points in reverse order...
You may learn a lot by attempts to install... but you'll never learn what makes an OS special.

You may know more about getting Mac OS X running than I do... but I'd be willing to bet that I know more about Mac OS X than you. Why? Because while you were fumbling with trying to install it, I was actually using it and learning how to make the most of it (as a working system).

Sorry, you really don't learn what is special about an OS by making attempts to install it. And I frankly doubt that many of you will see what is special about Rhapsody because I don't see any of you ever taking the time to actually work with it.

Well, you should sell one of them and you'll have more space.

You aren't going to get Rhapsody 5.0/5.1 working on an iMac... the USB support in Rhapsody 5.3 and later was only enough to use the keyboard and mouse. Nothing more.

So not only are you wasting your time... your really wasting your time.

Which brings us back to the first of your points (and a new rule)...
If you can't afford $0-$50 for this... stop right now. Don't spend any more time on this. Get a job or something.

I was on my own at 18. My parents didn't help me at all. I paid for my education out of my own pocket... and am still paying for my education out of my own pocket today!



The new rule: if anyone brings up "being a student" again as an excuse, I'll stop posting in this forum.

Ya see, I'm a student... and I work full time, and if you remind me that I'm basically donating my time here while you guys aren't willing to put the same amount of effort into this that I am in helping you, I'll remember that my time is actually better spent working on my mathematics than answering questions here.

To be fair... if a moderator removes the "I'm a student" post (and someone tells me it is gone), I'll consider posting again.

But this is a no tolerance policy... from here on out, if anyone gives me "being a student" as an excuse for anything, I'm gone.


Hmmm... Come to think of it, this would be a good time for catching up on my homework.

The "I'm a student" statement isn't an excuse, it's a matter of fact.

I admire you, because despite your occupations it seems you can manage your time in an exceptional way, but you must comprehend we're not all the same.
Everyone dreams about doing bilion of things a day and succceed in every aspect of life, but this isn't real.

It's easy to say "get a job or something", but in reality everyday we have several problems to cope with.
Despite this... we keep on trying because the passion and the love we put in this work keeps us trying. Even when we fail, and when we feel like there's no escape, no way to solve a problem, we continue till we arrive at a solution.
No one here is searching for tolerance, we're here to work together and put all the effort we can... and we cannot give all the same amount of effort, but that's right.
We don't have the same possibilities, and everyone here is doing what he can, and even if what one of us can do is only trying to install Rhapsody on an emulator and fails, that's right, we appreciate it (especially if he tells us what went wrong ).

The fact that you're brillant (and I really think so) doesn't allow you IN ANY WAY to establish RULES here.

You MUST RESPECT each other work.
You can discuss it with us and we'll be more than happy to hear your opinion.
That's all.

i'm using Mac OS X every day by the first time i had it in my mac (and on my father's imac before), that makes about 5 years now. i use it for school, for work (yes, i am a student and i do some work too.) and for hacking it. as i said before i like to experiment, because i like to learn every day something new. a day without learn is an useless day (or, at least, that is my philosophy…).
and, finally, consider that: maybe i'll fail, but maybe not, and if not i'll have a working system on it and then i'll like to explore (and use) the system, like i did before for other systems (ah, that imac is the same imac i used to experiment linux for the first months. yes, i had it on a secondary computer. now find someone here in italy that know wath i know about booting linux on ppc machines. surely there is someone, but not a lot.) and i'll appreciate rhapsody as i appreciate os x (i hope).
and then i'll be using it, after exploring that strange, mysterius world called open firmware.


we can't work with it if we havent it, right?


yes, i should sell a damaged imac (like most of my old macs, all still working, it has a lot of problem. why? because i use them as long as i can. i never waste hardware. anyway, this particular imac has the screen that is dieing…) wich is silent and smoll (and, anyway, isn't really mine - it is the old mac of my mother…) for a big, noisy tower that has an inferior hardware. sure.


the usb kayboards and mices are often managed directly by openfirmware and i'll not be surprised if it appens in rhapsody too. that would be a good reason to have only mice an kbs support…


please, let me decide when i'm wasting my time…


i haven't said that i can't afford it, i say that i don't want to spend money and have problems (my parents will never understand if i buy a computer for a thing like this…) if i can get it working in some other way.


it was not an excuse. as Don Luce said, it is a fact. I have money problems too (try to guess for how long i had to save moneys to buy the mac i'm using now…) and very little time, just like you.


i'm sorry for your decision, you was helpful here, but your not considering that you is not the only one that does that. i spend lot of my time helping people on other forums (mostly on italiamac.it, if you want to check…) sharing my knowledge. it is your that choose to help or not, i can't choose for you.

Don Luca said:

i totally agree.

and now, if i have a 30 minutes of time, i'll give another try…

Which is the best low cost Laptop for Rhapsody?

- supportet vga
- supportet sound
- supportet network (wlan?)

works usb with Rhapsody?

Which Software from Mac works with Rhapsody?

no wlan, it appears. will work cocoa software once recomiled -- teorically…

Hard to say... you should try searching for an old Pentium II laptop... or you can always use it in emulation.
You can do what follows:

Buy (if you don't have already one) a laptop (with Windows), install Bochs in it and use it for Rhapsody.
The next step ( ) will be setting Bochs to autostart with Windows (in full screen mode), so you'll have the feeling that what you're using is Rhapsody...
This way, you can set a bridged connection between Bochs and Windows, which can be everything... a simple LAN connection, a Wireless connection or even a Firewire connection.
The only problem is that I don't remember if Rhapsody recognizes Bochs' virtual Ethernet Interface... if it does, then you're all set!

Ive noticed that these old mac os's and betas are a pain, anyone agree with me here? oh, and i think im going to try and install rhapsody in bochs... ? is it worth the trouble?

max

it depends on wich betas. if "experimental" betas, like copland, sure, if "stable" ones, say mac os 9 beta not.

you have a point. a very good point.

wow that was some intense posts back there, I hope RacerX comes back, he knows a lot more of this stuff then probably any of us. Im still searching for Mac OS X Server 1.2 if anyone is willing to sell it to me, my dell latitude d800 died today (dvd writer failed completely), so all I have left is my iMac(thank god), and my iBook which is still at my house(should have brought that one to school O_o)

Im willing to pay up to $50 for it, I prefer that its the orginal media, so I know its genuine. I prefer to do any transaction through PayPal, anyone who has it PM me, thanks.

Edit :Free ISO images are also accepted of course

Like Jack said, I help people a lot online too. You should go to iPodLinux.org. I have 1xxx posts and I help people with Installation and Application Installation a ton. I am currently writing the iPod Application Manager 2 (1.5 is availible at http://ipodlinux.org/iPod_Application_Manager ) and I'm also trying to help out witht he development of iPodLinux for 5.5G and 2G nanos, although I haven't done much yet.

Dont worry, RacerX is cool, hell help out and pm sent hinting at an apropreate course of action involving server 1.2

I got your PM and sent one back , I wonder (cant remember what i needed to say, having some drinks with friends, {censored} I lost one of them). damn I need a life, spending too much time dealing with classic operating systems >_> , need to get out and enjoy the fresh air, wait its Pittsburgh that means the airs better indoors lol.

Edit: i fixed my laptops drive problem, i reflashed it with the wrong firmware, i used Sony +-RW DW56A, instead of Sony +RW DW 56A, notice the - made all the difference, f***ing Sony , i honestly hate them for many reasons. why cant companies be open about what their doing. Im going into business management and planning to start my own company and no way in hell im gonna be an asshole and close everything off from the world. I love and live for feedback on what I do. Sorry , im sort of drunk, cant help but rant.

I thought I recognized your name from somewhere! I don't even remember what my name was on the iPodLinux forums, but you probably helped me at some point (or something). iPL is great.

wow, an ipodlinux developer, great!

Well this has been a great ride. I came close to running Rhapsody on real Mac hardware. Maybe one day I'll get the chance, and maybe I will discover it's useful for my needs or not. Either way, it'll be a great learning experience, and I thank RacerX and everyone else here (but especially RAcerX's awesome site) for all the information.

Europe in 3 days!!!! With my trusty macbook...

Take care guys, I'll pop by occasionally

Wait... Why couldn't you run Rhapsody? Hardware limitations, or you didn't have the software?

both it seems. i'm still convinced that if we can find the right file to boot we can boot it also on newer macs (not so new, just a bit newer…), but i haven't had the time yet to determine wich file is and, anyway, i don't know if it will boot to the end, only that it should at least start to boot…

Wow! That will be a real pain in the buttocks! Bochs will run EXTREMELY slow on a Pentium II. Why not install it natively? Another thing, as of bochs 2.3, fullscreen display in bochs is NOT supported in any OS other than AmigaOS. Just to give you the heads up there.

you misunderstood Guru....

I said:
"you should try searching for an old Pentium II laptop... -->OR<-- you can always use IT (Rhapsody) in emulation."

Choices:
1 - Pentium II laptop
2 - modern laptop with bochs

Is it clearer now?

I'm not that crazy

I have a Olivetti PII Laptop, but incompatible vga, sound etc....

Which is the best PII Laptop?

How can you say "incompatible vga"?
Did you try it?

My VGA is a "Chips 65555"

I have in Rhapsody only black/white Screen in 640x480 Screen Resolution, no Color....

Sorry Don Luca. I did misunderstand you. Thank you for correcting me.

Guru

You asked me what old Pentium II laptop will work....
who knows!

the only thing you can do is this:

When you're installing Rhapsody, it asks you what kind of IDE/SCSI driver you want to load... then when it boots, it asks you for Audio/Lan/Video driver...

jot down the name of the devices listed, and search eBay, Amazon, ecc... for a laptop with those supported devices.

That's all I can do for you, hope it helps

I'll do the RacerX thing here and say.. did you consult his website? He's got a list of all intel hardware supported by rhapsody. He speaks extensively about his Rhapsody laptop that is 100% supproted because it was the exact same model Steve Jobs was using at Apple and the engineers made sure his laptop would work perfectly.

This topic sort of seems to be dying off, we need to revive it .

Anyone having luck finding a copy of Rhapsody PPC that works as in its real and complete, not corrupted or any of those dastardly problems ?

Edit : 50th post, and now a donator. hope that $15 goes to good use

AriX has the DR2, pm him to get a copy…

I already PMed him and I just realized it was DR2, instead of DR1, but I thought someone said it wasnt working right, thats why i was asking .

If you want, I have both Rhapsody DR2 and a sort of "PowerMac Special Edition"...
plus, I can tell you where to find loads of different copies of Rhapsody... just PM me.

i think that it is working, you only need a compatible mac.

I can't veiw this topic, but I see my name in it... Something's wrong... I get an error message: Sorry, some required files are missing, if you intended to view a topic, it's possible that it's been moved or deleted. Please go back and try again.

Can someone like Email me this page? I'm going to try to talk to some admins about this.

Hey Don... can you show me where you can find these editions of Rhapsody too? PM me.

Guru

Actually, I got a new one that DOES work, but only on real mac hardware, no emulators. I have DR1 PPC too though.

Also, whatever was happening I fixed... The board got locked into outline view for me by clicking a google link... hmm.....

Thats awesome man, but no I dont even need Rhapsody as Ive got nothing slow enough to run it, still searching for Mac OS X Server 1.2 so my iBook can take off . ~grumbles at the Amazon $100 price tag.~

PMs sent.
Good luck everyone!

If you get it... could you share it with us? I've been making a bit of money helping people with computers recently (Very little though...). I just bought an iPod Video, but I would be willing buy a copy if it was $50 or a bit more. Or, I could help you buy a copy.