No, x86 Rhapsody did not ship with BlueBox since BB requires a PPC processor. Pretty much the same reason OS X intel doesn't have Classic...

thats corrupted like i sayed...



max

ok.

RacerX, so you have a working ppc disc?

We don't HAVE a PPC one lol

RacerX does have a working disk witch he legitimately purchased, but leave him alone as he does not want to be involved with the quite questionably legal sharing of beta os's... please DO NOT BOTHER RACERX AS HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE INVOLVED... thank you and leave him alone, if he wants to share he will announce it himself...

thank you


max

OH WAIT!!!!!! I HAVE DR 1 THAT IS ALLMOST CERTAINLY PPC? (I forgot ok??? buisy day lol)

Unfortunately, bwhsh8r made a mistake, the PPC DR1 he thought he had is actually YellowBox for Windows.

yep lol, but thats better !

Where is configure.app? It is not in the appplications folder.

Actually I found it. But all it does nothing when I change it. What driver should I have selected?

ok, sure.


try "Motion 771 PCI Display Adapter (4MB modes)", DECchip 21041 Based Adapter and the classic soundblaster 16.

I'm asking lots of friends who use DC++, emule and other P2P to search the PPC version of Rhapsody... it's just a matter of time now...

P.S.: RacerX, I respect your decision of not sharing your copy of PPC RHAPSODY, but can I ask you a favour...
can you try installing your copy of PPC Rhapsody in SheepShaver and tell us if it works or not? If you don't want to, then don't worry, I predict that in a week we'll have our copy oh PPC Rhapsody
Thanks anyway

Okay, why not... I'll give it the ol' college try.

Well, to start I grabbed a copy of the ROM from one of my 8600s (Rhapsody DR2 was officially supported on the 8600). I then configured SheepShaver and fired it up booting from the Rhapsody DR2 installation media.

Once I had the system up and running from the CD, I fired up the Rhapsody installer...



I proceeded until I got to the part where I select the volume to install on...



... but there is no valid volumes. Rather odd, I have a volume sitting on the desktop, why won't the Rhapsody installer work with it?

Thinking that maybe the format of the volume isn't recognizable by the installer, I fire up Drive Setup...



That is even odder... why won't either the Rhapsody installer or Drive Setup see my target volume?

Just to see if there was anything wrong with the volume formatting, I run Disk First Aid...



... where we find the answer. SheepShaver treats all volumes like they are big floppy drives.

That is why you can't install Mac OS X in SheepShaver... and why you can't install Rhapsody in SheepShaver.

thank you jackoverfull, don luca, and racerx. thats interesting that it would treat drives as floopys... hmm wierd... oh, and don luca, you wont find ne thing on those networks i use them all the time :-p (music and videos are aboout the only thing legit on there... but good luck none the less)



max

mmm... we have to find out how to make Rhapsody recognize SS images...
I've got few ideas, but I can't work because the Rhapsody's ISO is missing...

bwhsh8r, can you upload the Rhapsody DR1 (if it is PPC, obviously...)

Btw... I found someone on ebay who is selling his copy ho Rhapsody, can't remember the link... if you want I'll post the link here, if someone's interested...

Why do you need to wait for a copy of Rhapsody to work on this?

The problem is that SheepShaver has classified all mounted volumes as "floppies". If you find a work around you don't need Rhapsody to test it, just use Drive Setup. If it recognizes the volume, then the Rhapsody installer would recognize the volume too.

Frankly, what this is going to most likely require is rewriting SheepShaver to not treat volumes as floppies. I would guess that it was originally written this way because the original developer found that emulating either a SCSI bus or EIDE bus was prohibitively complex.

I applaud your enthusiasm, but I highly doubt that you have a realistic chance at this. If emulating Rhapsody is your goal, your best bet is to return to the Intel version.

mmm, maybe is possible to have rhapsody in sheepshaver, although i'm not really sure.

it could be possible to install rhapsody to a real mac, make a disc image of its disk and try to use it on ss…

that if rhapsody doesn't matter if it is on an external or internal hd, once installed. anyway i remember some users having problems with os x 10.0 on firewire hds, so i think that it will end in a kernel panic…

As it stands right now, it would end before it even begins.

Rhapsody can be installed on an external SCSI hard drive... but what we are faced with is how SheepShaver deals with volumes at all (it treats them all as "floppies"). There is no way that I know of for pointing OpenFirmware at a floppy volume. OpenFirmware recognizes either SCSI or EIDE volumes for booting, and we have neither here.

And you really can't compare Rhapsody to Mac OS X when looking at the boot process because Rhapsody's process is quite different. Mac OS X's process is actually more like Mac OS 8.5-9.x than Rhapsody's.


I know that you guys have even less experience with the PowerPC version of Rhapsody than the Intel version, so you need to know that the boot process for Rhapsody on Macs is nothing like the normal Mac boot process. If I was to put a Rhapsody hard drive in a supported Mac and tried to start up the system, the Mac would sit there not seeing a bootable volume.

You have to specifically program the firmware to see and boot a Rhapsody volume. The two ways to do this are via the installer or the System Disk utility. And if the battery dies on your Mac, then you'll be stuck having to set up a Rhapsody volume as a start up disk each time you start your system.

We are first assuming that SheepShaver will except this type of programming in firmware (which is a bit of a stretch right there) and then we need the volume to be on a proper bus to be a bootable volume.



Guys, this Rhapsody on SheepShaver thing is going to be a massive undertaking... so massive that what you'll most likely end up with is a new emulator based on SheepShaver... but no longer SheepShaver.

If any one here has the technical expertise to rewrite (actually, create in this case) large parts of SheepShaver and don't mind expending a couple hundred man hours for free, then please, by all means, solve these issues.

Otherwise, I think this SheepShaver thing has ventured into the area of fantasy.

Don't even try. I burned the Rhapsody ISO to a disc and the finder, or anyting else for that matter, doesn't recognize it. I am lucky that Parallels doesn't check the finder, but the disk drive itself. I tried restoring it to an external hard drive. It did the same thing.

oldworld openfirmware vesions booted perfectly from floppyes and newworld recent ones should boot from any blessed volume fast enough that it can see at startup time.


there is a third way of doing it on newworld macs: doing it from the open firmware shell. anyway i'm not if sheepshaver has one: i suspect that it emulates an oldworld mac…

the x86 iso? i tried to, no luck.

Not when configured for Rhapsody... floppies aren't part of the PCI bus (a requirement for Rhapsody volumes).

Rhapsody volumes aren't "blessed"... HFS/HFS+ volumes can be blessed.

And you would find that once you take Open Firmware down the boot path (as opposed to the bye path that is use to start from the ROM and finished with either floppy, hard drive or CD drive) that floppy volumes are no longer an option.

Further, past a certain point, Open Firmware no longer works for Rhapsody volumes on Macs. There was a window of hardware support for Rhapsody, and anything out side of it is outside the possibility of being used.

Also, one of the requirements for running Rhapsody on a Mac is a PCI bus (which the firmware can read), this was why the PowerBook 3400c and 2400c can run Rhapsody... they both have PCI buses.


I've been working with Rhapsody for 8 years... I have a pretty good idea how this stuff works. But if you don't want to take my word on this stuff, there is tons of documentation on it out there that you can read.

At any rate, without a proper understanding of the boot process of both the real Mac hardware and how it has to be modified to boot Rhapsody, you aren't going to know what to fix in SheepShaver anyways.

ok, so no firewire boot to, i suppose, only internal and scsi hds…


ufs can be blessed too.


ok


yes, like for older os x releases. first generation imacs g3 seems to work fine…


sorry, i wasn't intended to offend you, i'm only trying to find a way…
obviously i'm taking your words: you seems to be the only one to actually have it!


well, i will surely not fix ss: anyway i haven't the programming knowledge and i'm not interested to emulate the ppc version…
but i'm really curious (i know, it's one of my main characteristics! ) about that strange boot process, it wold be really nice if you'll like to explain a bit of it…

SheepShaver emulates the ROM you gave it.
If you use the newworld.rom included in MacOS9 CD, then SheepShaver emulates the newworld mac.

i'm not so shure: mac os needs a rom, but starting from mac os 8.6 it loaded it from the hard drive, on newworld or oldworld macs. can you try to enter in the open firmware shell? ss can run linux (with yaboot)? i think not. if yes so it emulates also a newworld, no doubth about it.

Allright, I'll download a PPC linux distro and tell you if I can manage to install and boot it...

BTW: anyone tried with PearPC/CherryOS?

EDIT: I'm downloading UBUNTU linux for PPC... in a hour I'll have the ISO and I'll tell you if it works.

I didn't spend the last three years compiling information and writing about this stuff on my site to do it over and over again in different forums forums. Almost every question about Rhapsody itself that has been asked here is cover somewhere on my site.

great


i thought that, once installed, it would boot (but no ideas now, after what RacerX said about the rhapsody boot process) but we can't get the installer disk boot because pearpc doesn't support os 9. maybe (and i underline the "maybe") is possible to force the install under the os x classic enviroment.


great. probably it will hang (at least it will not start X), but if you can get the boot screen is enough: in that case it is a newworld.


thanks, it is enough, i'll look here!

Missed this one...



Mac OS X's UFS is not the same as Rhapsody's UFS.

In fact, Mac OS X can't read Rhapsody UFS volumes.

oh, fantastic.

--------------------

what about mac os x server 1.x? it is the direct rhapsody evolution on ppc, anyone having a disc?

Stange... the Rhapsody PPC CD should boot automatically... are you sure that you don't have a fake or corrupted Rhapsody iso?

You mean besides me of course.



Who are you asking?

I was replying to jackoverfull.

However, it seems that SS doesn't want to boot Linux PPC. It tries to load it but fails, so it stucks for 10 seconds, then eject the CD.
Now, I don't know if this is because of the CD, or is because of SS.

I'll make one last try downloading a Live CD of Linux for PPC, then , if it fails, I'd say that SS emulates an oldworld mac.

Allright Guys, I'm bringin you Good news and Bad news.

Let's start from the bad ones:

SS emulates a PowerMac 9500, which is an oldworld mac. So, no way.

Good news:

MacOnLinux supports OpenFirmware and NvRAM, so I'm creating a new Virtual Machine in Paralles where run Linux, and will use MacOnLinux from there (again, VM into another VM...).

I'm an idiot.
I didn't realize that Mac-on-linux runs on -->PPC<-- linux.

Nothing to do.
But we have a new way to run Rhapsody PPC: running it through a PPC linux.
I think it's easier getting PPC linux run on an emulator...
I'll try PPC linux in PearPC ASAP.

ooops!
Sorry for the triple post, but I've got great news!!!

There are PPC linux that can run on oldworld Macs!! One of these is Mandrake Linux 9.1 PPC!
Now I'm downloading the 3 CDs... I'll tell you if I made any progress!!!

rofl, and i have cherry os if you want it to try?



max

Yeah, gimme 'em all!!!

Can you also upload your copy of Rhapsody DR1 PPC, please?

EDIT:

BTW, here's my (crazy) plan:

Mac OS X --> Parallels --> Windows --> PearPC --> Linux PPC --> Mac-on-Linux --> Rhapsody PPC

Once I got Rhapsody PPC installed, I'll try to make it work in SS.

There's also a backup plan:

Mac OS X --> SS --> Linux PPC (Oldworld compatible) --> Mac-on-Linux --> Rhapsody PPC

As soon as I have downloaded the 3 Mandrake Linux PPC CDs, I'll start trying over and over, until I have results.

it turned out to be yellowbox for windows.... witch is cooler but still... i dont have ne ppc...


max

If I'm not wrong, YellowBox is like CrossOver: it allows you to run Mac apps on PC... it doesn't allow you to run the Mac OS on Windows...

yes, it is corrupted.


well…yes, but you're always welcome!


so it was as i remembered: it is an oldworld. sorry




you can try to install pearpc, install mac os x phanter, install mac on mac ( http://maconmac.bastix.net/ ) on phanter and install rhapsody ppc inside, but i think that it will hung somewere (mac on mac made my real mac hunging, sometimes…)

another way is to install mac on linux on linux on pearpc or qemu-system-ppc.



yes, sure, but it means almost nothing: it used an other way to boot, doing a chain-boot from mac os. maybe, if you can get linux boot you can install mac on linux, but it will be easier to install it on pearpc or qemu.

anyway i strongly discurage mandrake (or mandrivia) ppc: it has serius problem on macs…
you can download somewere the bootX bootloader (that isn't the same of os x) and use it whit any other distro, like ubuntu.


i seems to remember that it is based on pearpc too, but trying is always good.



well, a little crazy, but, teorically, it could work!



--------------------
ehy, don luca, have you noticed my location? obviusly not: i haven't fit it…
qua la mano, romano, so' di torino!

yep, and cherryos is a ripoff of pearlpc code... and sold... but its got some other stuff too...


max

Hey! I gave you the CherryOS Max! The credit should be attributed to me! BTW... if any of you guys want CherryOS v1.01 for Windows... go head over to my home page by clicking here!

Guru

If you must know i was going to tell them to pm you so chill out rofl... and besides, i just found you that one other thing that youve been looking for for ages.... so yea...


max

Actually I would hope that some one else here has it now too... I posted links to an auction for Mac OS X Server 1.x which cost the winner less than $30 a couple days ago.

The version in that auction (Rhapsody 5.3) could be upgraded to Rhapsody 5.5 (free download).

A perfectly legal version of Rhapsody 5.5 for PowerPC for under $30... why would you guys pass that up?

Sort of. It allowed one to compile apps for Windows as well as Rhapsody. Pretty spectacular piece of work, almost everything was compatible - and functionally identical - at the source level.

I think that i found a 1.0 a little whial ago.. (gotta ask r guru bout that...) and it is at $22.72 atm i may bid for the hell of it...

The bidding ended a couple days ago... the $22.72 was the winning bid, and the shipping was fixed at $6.99.

Total......... $29.71


Like I said, Rhapsody for under $30.

Allright guys, Mandrake is installing in pearpc... But I still have to download the other 2 CDs
Obviusly... all the work we're doing is useless if we don't find a copy of Rhapsody PPC...

EDIT:
I'm downloading Mac-on-Mac... if it works well, it is one VM less.
---------
OT: grande jack! guarda che qua in giro bazzicano un sacco di italiani... basta tenere gli occhi aperti!
Stavo pensando di metter su un sito tipo "Rhapsody Project" dove mettere tutte le info che abbiamo su Rhapsody e i nostri sviluppi... che ne dici?

There are several news:

1 - Mac on Mac doesn't want to work on Intel macs.

2 - Installation of Mandrake failed.

3 - Ubuntu doesn't want to install because it's a Live CD.

4 - BootX Bootloader doesn't work in sheepshaver with Mac OS 9.0.4

Concluding:
I'm downloading several other distros of PPC Linux, until I find the one that works.

EDIT: CherryOS doesn't work. Seems like it wasn't designed for Windows XP.
Maybe later I'll set a Virtual Machine with Windows 98

What type of info are you thinking of putting together?

There was a "Rhapsody Project" for a while, but it has merged with the NeXT Information Archive.

There have been tons of places on the net where people have put up "Rhapsody" sites, sadly most disappear within a year or two when those people lose interest because they weren't actually using Rhapsody as a viable platform to begin with.

And there are tons of sites where someone got a copy of Rhapsody, fired it up, took screenshots and put up a page. When you look at this page all you get a screenshots, and all by someone who doesn't actually know Rhapsody. Or this guy's guided tour, he doesn't actually know anything about Rhapsody. And here is another set of screenshots (most are the same as other pages).

To be fair, I do have "Rhapsody screenshots" pages (here and here), but I don't have them on my Rhapsody site for the very reason that I don't want anyone to confuse why my site exists... it is there to help people learn to use Rhapsody.

Anyways, best of luck with that.

non sarebbe male…riuscissimo ad averne una copia! ne parliamo in pm? (o nella sezione ita…)


yes, it is ppc (and phanter) only, no tiger and no intel.


i warned you… it failed also on my real mac (well…really it installed well, whitout a boot loader, damaging the partition map… )


i said it: the live hasn't any chanche to start the x11 enviroment, you should try with the "alternate" installer.


so we're off anyway, i dont think there is another way…



i think you'll waste your time and your connection, so…

RacerX said:

yes, there are a lot of sites in english about it, but maybe it would be nice to do one in italian…