While Apple is way ahead of Windows in many ways, Macs certainly aren't known for their gaming abilities. What does Apple need to do to make the Mac gamin experience better? What specific steps should they take before you'll be taking a Mac to a LAN party?

As someone new to Macs, maybe someone can answer this for me - what's wrong with the hardware? Why do people say that Macs aren't cut out for gaming?

I know that there aren't a lot of Mac games out there (relatively speaking) but is that because of the hardware or something else?

Apple should support DirectX It would be a great step by simplifiying a lot game porting process... but I doubt Microsoft would allow that, they want Vista to be a game platform... sad.

Also in my opinion the problem is not really the Mac hardware (even if they should support more third party hardware). Mac represents only a minor fraction of gaming platforms (console : many millions of gamers, PC : millions of gamers, Mac : some gamers ). Why bothering to port a game to Mac when you sell millions of copies for consoles. Even PC have difficulties today to stay on par with consoles (except on specific segments of the gaming market). The more Macs Apple will sell, the more games will appear on this platform... but the road is very long...

Ever heard of Darwine?

Darwine won't do much for gaming, though, since the games aren't native Mac apps, right?

The goal of Darwine is to "simulate" a Windows environement (dlls, drivers, etc) to allow Windows application to run in Mac OS X. The initial Wine (linux) project can achieve this with good results and good speed as it is not an emulation : x86 code runs on x86 machine, it """simply""" (thousands lines of code) recreate a fake Windows environement needed by the application to run.
Darwine added an emulation layer to run Wine on PPC hardware. Now with OS x86 the emulation layer is no longer needed and we can hope same results as the original Wine : native code x86 running fast. But the road is very long before Darwine x86 reach the same level of achievement as Wine.... But perhaps one day we will be able to run any windows game IN Mac OS

we should hope that more people write opengl games... then they are easy to port and mac should provide full support...

otherwise, we can emulate the directx environment like the prog cedega under linux...

faster/better/more upgradable hardware.

simply put, alot of gamers are put off by macs for many reasons.

here are a few:

1.) The hardware on macs is not as upgradeable, because the hardware to upgrade with is more limited than pc's.

2.) Some gamers like to build their own machines, and with macs, this is not currently practical.

3.) The whole "homie don't right click" thing, most of the pc gamers I know, myself included, are turned off by the whole simple, single button, point & click interface of macs (yes I know you can use multi button mice with macs, but who would ever think to use non-official Apple products ?)

4.) Cost. for 2k you can get a good gaming x86 pc, but thats where the powermac starts.

5.) Number of games supporting the os

there are five reasons many "gamers" choose not to go mac, I'm not sure if everythink I listed is still the case, but it has been in the past.

personally, I have never "gamed" on a Mac (Except , nor do I plan to anytime soon... The limited selection of games, and limited placed to buy them them (I have only EVER seen mac games in Micro Center and online) make me not want to even bother trying. besides, thats why I've got x86 pc's.

gaming on mac probably depends a whole lot on what u want to play...

just as for myself:

1) ut2k4 => running fine under win, linux and osx (pb g4)
2) wow => running fine under win and osx

i guess basically every shooter supporting open gl is fine, so if u play fps there should be no prob...

only gaming i need win for is bf2 at the moment, but hopefully there will be a mac release for that sometime as well...

and anyway i dont't play as much as i used to anymore, since college and my girlfriend take up most of the time anyway...

true still: if u need ur computer mainly for gaming a mac probably isn't the way to go... however if u stick to one game mostly anyway (for example competitive ut) and don't care about being able to play a lot of other games u can still stick with a mac...

plus: if an intel mac is able to dual boot osx and win u can have both, but i guess we'll have to see about that...

sorry for the lot of neways, i guess the beer is getting the best of me

DX was purposely tied closely to windows so it would not be easy to port. Believe me, the issue came up during anti-trust proceedings. I would like to see it for DirectPlay networking purposes alone though.

Anyway, Apple giving a damn about games would be a start as would a game device preference pane.

I was told vista was going to cripple OpenGL drivers... This will screw over the few mac games that come out... who is going to make a opengl based game if it will run like {censored} on windows. I'm not sure if DirectX could be ported but something like Irrlicht or Orge3D built into osx would solve this.

Irrlicht and Orge3D are 3D APIs that run on DirectX and OpenGL. they also have Windows Linux and OSX support.

LOL now thats a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one you do know that it would also make older opengl games suck ass too right? don't you think people would be like.. "Hey your new OS is slow! Nobody buy it!"

It is only opengl they are slowing down... It is now a layer over direct x It can slow opengl 50% and it disables all the things OGL can do that DirectX cannot. It is to force developers to use directx (windows only) for game development. This will make porting games to linux and mac allot harder.

Yes it will make many old OpenGL games slower... Up to 50% slower.

Its not a matter of no one buying it... Wista will ship with millions of dell and gateway systems... developers will have to conform...

articals about this...
http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=99989
http://slashdot.org/articles/05/08/06/177251.shtml
http://www.astahost.com/info.php/microsoft...hics_t7377.html

Games need ridiculous processing power and 1 GHz to a game company is 1 GHz, regardless of processor architecture (this came directly from Aspyr in an interview for Macworld). Also, to get timely ports, Altivec support is not really considered (because games have to be coded to specifically take advantage of Altivec) and neither are multiple processors (same reason).

Systemwise, the Mac represents the ultimate disposable gaming machine. An iMac G5 can run just about any game in the Mac market, and will for a few years. When it gets outdated, plunk down for a new iMac (and gamers are well known for spending $5000+ for systems). The only problem lies in it not running the Windows "insecurity blanket" that people seem to want.

With that being said, the best way to support Mac gaming is to actually BUY MAC GAMES and NOT PIRATE/STEAL THEM. Since the Mac is a smaller market, it is hit even worse by people stealing software. In other words, there is less of a profit margin in a Mac market than a Windows market and that's simply because of the numbers game. Take Halo for instance. For every one legit copy of Halo running around, there are at least three illegal copies. How is it profitable to make a Mac game if people aren't going to buy the bloody thing?

@A Nonny Moose
That is really true... I'm not sure if the ratio is really 1:3 but it is still too high.

Im not sure how to really end bootleging though... No matter what you do people will find a way to steal a game.

more games. better graphics card. that's it.

Can't have anything better when ATI has the strangehold on the Mac market. They can release any kind of crap they want at Apple and they're right now forced to take it. At least when NVidia worked with Apple, there was some competition.

So... Why not just put a bit more effort into making it run in both OpenGL and Direct X, but primarily Direct X? I don't see much of an issue here. Just make it use both, so it can be ported.

That means that a game developer will need more time on developing their games. More time = more money. More money on cost means thinner margin for them. Not a viable business model, eh?

In my opinion, Apple can't make gaming any better... Sure, they can add in better graphics cards, etc... that makes the game itself better, but not exactly gaming.

If you want a gaming computer, you need a computer that supports all games, which OS X doesn't.

So, now they have made Boot Camp, OS X isn't going to be used for gaming much longer, since it now has Windows support, which means people are going to be installing their games on the XP Partition of their Apple Computer. Until OS X dominates the majority of computer operating systems, (right now, it's 5% or something...), they aren't going to get anywhere fast...

There are lots and lot of people saying Apple needs to partner up with Nintendo. I think that would make a very interesting position for both companies and it would make Nintendo games available for Mac and not PC.

I can imagine playing Zelda now on a Macintosh. *drool*

Apple really needs a kick ass game that is only available for the Mac platform. This was the original intent of Halo until Microsoft bought them out so they could have a kick ass game for the XBox.

not gonna happen. No game developer is gonna develop a game exclusively for a platform that has less than 5% of the total marketshare. Considering the cost of development on the Mac is probably equal to that on the PC (perhaps even more expensive), developing on the PC would be more important because the market is much larger. Personally, I don't believe Apple will ever become a gaming powerhouse unless Apple comes out with a game console or something like that.

I think Apple doesn't need to make a console (that poor, poor, Pippin... ), but let's view the extremes here:

The PC platform tends to attract really casual gamers because they don't need to buy a console...

...and it attracts the most "hardcore" gamers, the kind of people who lined up for the VooDoo5 back in the day and worship nVidia or ATI at the shrine of their huge, glowing, water-cooled machines, playing mostly FPS's.

But the consoles attract more of the people who don't really want to pimp out a computer just to play. They can be pretty hardcore, but they don't have to be. They can even be the kind of people who just have it as one way for their kids to play, and take away the controllers when the kids misbehave.

Arcades used to be for the casual gamer (back in the day when they took their place alongside the old mechanical pinball machines), but now they are more havens of the hardcore fighting game and lightgun shooting addicts, and are a sadly underutilized medium (I haven't seen a crowded arcade in years, anyhow; when DDR was novel is pretty much the last time I've seen so much interest in an arcade machine).

I think Apple could succeed in the gaming market by somehow finding a "middle path", but if I could say what I'd be rich =\

Both the Mac and PC markets are losing to the console markets, though. Why even try to cobble together a $5000 system to play Halo when you can do it using a $399 XBox and the graphics are superb (prices are hyperbolic of course, to blatantly outline the price disparity).

It's going to get to the point (and I think it already has gotten there) where game developers will narrowcast to the hardcore gamers and then they'll really shoot themselves in the foot.

I was in the mac store the other day, scoping out places to throw molotov coctails (jk) and I noticed the limited selection of mac games, and their prices. C&C Generals was $49.99 (it's 19.99 for the PC), several games that are the same as PC equivalents were also more expensive. I dont know if that's just an apple-store thing (you know, like... since these idiots are willing to shell out so much money for nothing, maybe they'll pay $79.99 for last year's computer game) or if the developer's MSRPs are higher due to lack of popularity for the Apple platform. Still. It's a turnoff. I dont like the idea of there being a premium to own something "neat".

All bashing of Apple aside, their prices really arent THAT unreasonable. But the software having a premium over Windows versions is just another nail in the coffin.

Apple systems usually have pretty good video hardware, but again, the premium on that hardware is big.

The software prices from games from that nasty port problem. Mac ports have traditionally come mega late (6 months or more!) and by then, the price for that same game on Windows just got reduced in the sale bins. Timnig of these ports have gotten better, but it's still an issue when something goes into the sale bin when the Mac version is released. Of course, this can be solved by companies making hybrid games (and people buying them as opposed to stealing them), but that might be wishful thinking.

hybrid games will NOT happen until Apple adopts DirectX which can then allow for easier porting of Windows games to Mac. At this point, porting games from Windows to Mac is not a fun job for developers.

Blizzard's made every game they've made for the PC run on a mac too. It cant be THAT hard.

Great! Then you can port all the games over!

Just kidding of course.

Economically tho, what you say doesnt make sense. If what you say is true, then every developer would port their software to osx and that just doesnt happen. Since most feel it is too difficult for the money they gain, they write only for windows.

If it was easy as you say, or "not that hard" i really have no idea. But i know for a fact they think it is too hard for the money they will make.

Game companies obviously take cost-benefit analysis into consideration. They want to sell the most products at the lowest cost. Developing for Mac OS X is simply not going to work if you look at the cost of development on Mac and how much money they are going to make. They're not there to please customers...they are there to make money. That's the bottom line....Mac users are extremely lucky that a niche company like Aspyr exists to port these PC games over.

First of all... I'm sure if apple could adopt DirectX they would do it, but DirectX is made by microsoft... to do so would not only be a legal nightmare but it would be almost impossible with the almost completely undocumented libs of DirectX.

Secondly, Blizzard is able to port most of their games(I believe from Warcraft I and up.) to Mac becuase their programmers are extremly talented... To write a rendering engine to run on multipul APIs is extremly hard, But blizzard is able to do it easy after like 7 games (not counting Expantion Packs).

Nintendo is not interested at all with computer games.

Go buy a Wii when they come out.

The reason why so many people like PCs better than Macs, is because their fully customable. You can build your own PC, change sound card, video card, put in a physx card which is a BIG boost in game performance, and upgrade a cpu if your motherboard is compatible with a stronger CPU. You can't legally build your own mac on your own. You can get different parts in it, but you can't build your own. That's Apples biggest problem. If you want a full mac expirence, you have to buy their computer.Which, aren't cheap if you want one for gaming. You can build a decent gaming rig for $500 atleast.You need to pay $1300 just to get a decent FPS on most games for Mac. Apple needs to consider the budget gamers, the GMA900 won't cut it either in the Mac mini, unless they atleast put in a Radeon 9800, Radeon x700, or a Geforce 6200. Hell, the 9200 is better than the GMA900, just needs more memory than 32 mb.

EDIT-What's funny, is Microsoft top selling series on the Xbox, is the Halo series, which Bungie started out on Mac platform, and designed the original Halo, which was stradegy at first, was going to be on Mac, as shadow stated. But, the closest Nintendo will get to a computer is Opera on the Ds, and the rumor that Opera will be on the Wii.

that apple make a super-game for mac and the same game for windows, but mac version must be cooler, and when windows users play it, there is a message: "change to the mac version and you'll have cooler features "

but must be a REALLY COOL game . _.

If apple were to partner with Nintendo I believe they would be able to do some amazing things together.

I think Apple and Nintendo should merge... so they can be called "Appendo"... which just sounds awesome. The name alone would make mac gaming unstopable.

How can they make gaming better? Steam client for OS X!

With recent ATI + AMD, hardware-wise, apple will be getting more and more of the Nvidia hardware for games. and Nvidia are well-know for their support to game developers. The question now is, will game developer and publishers start to make more games available to Mac users... Only time will tell.

For now, Mac is not a good platform for gaming, if you really want to experience the latest and greatest.... Company of Heroes, BF2, Age of Empire 3 (latest expansion) Star wars - forces of corruption, Upcoming game Supreme Commander (Just to name a few). I still think it's better to spend about 600-800 dollars for a PC gaming system. PC mag recently featured an article on how to build a decent gaming rig for about 600 dollars.

apple can only make gaming better on osx, if they make a osx that runs on all pc's

companys will only invest money in games development if there is a market for it

right now osx only has 4 percent of the pc market.. that to little for big investments in games development

is all about economics..

I think the problem have always been the lack of native games, now you can install Windows and that solves the problem a little, but Apple doesn't seem to build machines for gamers yet, maybe later. iMac, Macbook Pro and Mac Pro are decent machines for people who wanna play games thought.

I think one major problem before all hardware and software issues ; is a personnel issues. And that is Steve Jobs.
As far as we can tell he currently does not give a damn about gaming on Mac. And as the result there are currently no talk between the games developer and OSX design teams. What they need and how to make things easier for them.
Even traditional OpenGL game dev such as John Carmack has been lured to the Direct X platform ><.

You know, if Apple would have released DirectX, people would bemoan it because it would mean a proprietary piece is needed to create Mac games.

Microsoft releases DirectX and it's the shizzle. Am I missing something here?

noone (but us) cares, because they have windows. the fact that windows isnt chained to a piece of hardware means everyone has it, so everyone is happy. (but us)

well there is a thing called unity out there that can make games for mac, windows and linux

its also made for the mac, it runs on some open-source version of .net which means its easier for windows games to be ported to os x

since more people are using macs maybe game devs might start doing more mac games

Not likely to happen though, as 95% of the marketshare is still Windows, and Mac is barely breaking 4% of the market.

By letting alt-tab work for full screen games as well, Apple appeals to those people who play games when they are not supposed to.

Two words: Directx 10

They can put a god damn video input port on the back of my 24" iMac, so you can hook up a PS2 to it. That would be awesome, as I haven't used my PS2 in over 4 months (my iMac replaced my TV). 3rd party solutions like eyetv have lag, so I won't even bother trying them.

I only see 2 things working in favor of Apple for games:
* They should make GFX upgradable and allow third parties to make those (Maybe an MXM format of some sort) that' a bit of investment but in the end it'll be profitable by both Apple and third parties.
* Finance the development of a Wine/Cedega style engine to make windows games compatible. It'll costs less than porting every games and could works really well if done by a professional team in contact with games editors.

I don't see this happening any time in the future as Macs are still too pricey and non evolutive and Apple already took care of the "gaming problem" with Bootcamp.We'll still have to see what Parallels will do in the future, fast DX9 support would be an ideal way to not boot into windows anymore (at least not natively).

I disagree.
Apple making bootcamp is NOT taking "care" of the problem. It is simply giving the user a way to get by for now. Adopting 100% a different OS to play games is hardly a workaround.

Until Apple either makes a deal with Microsoft to lease DX10, or they make a DX10 killer, you will NOT see this os surpass Windows.