Since we've got a pretty eclectic group here, I'm curious to see what ya'll think...

What are the top 5 greatest music albums of all time? (And by greatest, I mean most influential, most musically creative, etc. All of those are a factor)

My list:
1. "Revolver" - The Beatles

2. "Pet Sounds" - The Beach Boys

(1 and 2 are pretty close, and they both had a lot of influence on each other. 1966-67 was modern music's most creative period, in my opinion!)

3. "Dark Side of the Moon" - Pink Floyd

4. "Kind of Blue" - Miles Davis

5. "The Joshua Tree" - U2

What say you?

In no real order:
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Deep Purple - Machine Head
The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
The Magnetic Fields - 69 Love Songs

this is my list based on the music i like

Iron Maiden - Live After Death
Slayer - Reign in Blood
Judas Priest - Painkiller
Megadeth - Rust in Peace
Bruce Dickinson - The Chemical Wedding

My list:

1. The Beatles - "White Album"

2. The Beatles - "Revolver"

3. Pink Floyd - "Dark Side of the Moon"

4. Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - "Four Way Street"

5. Joni Mitchell - "Miles of Aisles"

Guns and roses: "apetite for destruction"
Sex Pistols: "never mind the bollocks"
Nirwana: "nevermind"
Rammstein: "live aus Berlin"
Böhse Onkelz: "Böse Menschen - Böse Lieder"

5 is not enough, I know many more "greatest music albums of all time"

I'd say:

Metallica - Black Album

Sepultura - Arise

The doors - In concert




Well, cant really deciede for the rest, my personal opinion, wouldnt mean that those are really the greatest albums of all times.

Wow is it just me or am I from another time.

I dont recognize any of the bands, except Beatles...but then everyone knows that.

We're talking 70s/80s here.

1. The Freewhelin Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan

2. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club- The Beatles

3. White Album - The Beatles

4. It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back - Public Enemy

5. The Joshua Tree - U2

Iron Maiden- Killers
AC/DC- Highway To Hell
Pantera- Cowboys From Hell
Slayer- Reign In Blood
Something by Judas Priest or Motorhead, can't decide

Any of the Beatles must rate as the top albums of all time. I have them all...

Also have lots of Floyd, U2 and a bunch of weird stuff you'd probably hate... Joni Mitchell is there, Norah Jones, Bonnie Rait, Pentangle, Steeleye Span, James Taylor. I have or know something by most of the bands quoted so far in this thread. Mash- I'd vote for any of your choice, love them all.

For me the only album I would choose over all others is Faure's Requiem (David Wilcox version) but that's clearly not going to be either 'greatest of all time' or many others' taste.

Interesting that there is some congruity here ... are OSx86 people like-minded?

My vote are for various albums of Alan Parson's Project.

Robbie Williams - INTESIVE CARE is the Greatest album for me

Wow you guys have very narrow musical tastes.

In no order

Badmotorfinger - Soundgarden

The Creek Drank The Cradle - Iron and Wine

Music Has The Right To Children - Boards Of Canada

Mothers Milk - The Red Hot Chili Peppers

The Electric Spanking Of War Babies - Funkadelic

Prince Blimey - Red Snapper

King For A Day, Fool For A Lifetime - Faith No More

Daisies Of The Galaxy - Eels

Andy Warhol - The Velvet Underground and Nico

Fashion Nugget - Cake

C.

Those are some good albums Utopian - good call on Velvet Underground and Iron & Wine.

Not sure if those go down as the greatest albums of all time, but they are good! VU has also become more influential as time goes on.

Yeah, Velvet Underground was great Junkie Music. Heroin is one of the greatest song from them.

Hmm...this is going to be tough. Suprised it hasn't turned into a flame-fest! Both favourites, and great...

1. Pink Floyd - Dark Side of The Moon
2. A Farewell to Kings - Rush
3. Led Zeppelin II - Led Zeppelin
4. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles
5. Definetely Maybe - Oasis

Other than that...really anything Rush/Zeppelin/Floyd...If I could go longer I would've had to throw some more Beatles, U2, The Who...a bit of Radiohead....

American Beauty / The Grateful Dead. If you've never heard it before you should check it out.

My top 5

1. Pink Floyd - The Wall

2. Queen - We Will Rock You

3. The Doors - The Doors

4. Creedence Clearwater Revival - Chronicle

5. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV

CCR is a good call too, and any collection would be poor if it didn't have LZIV!

Seconded...!

Not to sound rude or start any sort of debate,
but why is modern music never considered to be of any value?

I don't find it fair.
So many songs of today are creative and flat out cool.

Why are yesterday's songs the only ones to be critically acclaimed?

Psssh, so some of you have a few good points, but you've all missed the true greatest album of all time:

The Clash - London Calling

I was waiting for someone to mention that!
And it's true...most people consider older albums to be more critically aclaimed and influential then newer stuff. In my opinon, older albums are given time to grow, and influenced alot of today's great artists. In that way, we see them as great I gues, because they helped form the sounds of today...
That's why it makes me laugh when people like the NME go and rate the Arctic Monkey's debut album as one of the top 5 greatest albums of all time...

I have no clue If what I just said made any remote sense...




So true sHARD....good call.

if you guys saw my music collection of old Rock, you would understand why i have such a hard time picking and choosing =(

{censored}, just for the beatles i have 74 albums...

and im 21 years old! i'd be 23 by the time i finish listening to all of just the beatles to decide.

no particular order:

Nirvana Nevermind
Böhse Onkelz All Albums except Dopamin
Slipknot Self Titled
Pantera Reinventing the Steel
MachineHead HellAlive

Very good sound, it seems that only we Germans don't like the Beatles
The rest of the world is Beatles fan ?

thx! u too



it's not that i don't like the beatles they have some ok songs, however i don't think they made one of the greatest albums of all time... (besides their record label keeps trying to give apple a hard time )



seems so

On the point about old music...

I think it's that those albums have been around for a long enough time that they've been seen to have an influence. Newer artists don't have that luxury, but I think that only in retrospect can you see what's truly the greatest.

Anyway, that's my

And in honor of this thread, a new smily:

W00t...thanks Mash!



But how will I ever use it in normal conversation?

well, im german and i love the beatles...




irony: i heard steve jobs is a big beatles (and btw bob dylan) fan...

anybody know why steve called his company apple..?

and


Interesting to see that this Nazi cult band is so popular among some German members of this forum. Simply disgusting. Well, at least their songs on "Germany to the Germans", bomber pilots, squashing boots and turkish cunts were all quite influential in Germany in the Nineties, this is correct, yes. I wonder which songs on the demo tapes and first albums you all like best (particularly the albums, since you didn't exclude those)? Anyway, it's safe to say that the white trash, conspiracy-theory-laden right-wing schmaltz they produced since then didn't really improve over that very much -- from an artistic point of view, that is.


Speaking about creativity, I for my part am pretty much interested in music that is generated mostly without the interference of wetware.

* Virtual Bach: Experiments in Musical Intelligence
(awesome)

* Virtual Mozart: Experiments in Musical Intelligence
(would make a nice gift to Mozart lovers in this anniversary year)

* Bach by Design: Computer-Composed Music

* Classical Music Composed by Computer: Experiments in Musical Intelligence

http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/
http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/experiments.htm

A collection of MP3s:
http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/mp3page.htm
One of my favorites:
Invention (After Bach)
ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/invention.mp3

Midi-files:
ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/Midfiles/
One of my EMI-favorites (yes, I am a big Bach fan):
ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/Midfiles/MI-bach-fugue.mid

5000 Bach-style chorals:
http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/5000.html

Much more stuff, including scores:
ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/

seems you haven't followed the history of this band long enough. true they had some songs at the beginning of their 25+ year career that were politcally questionable. they later on distanced themselves from their errors of the past. most argue here: once extreme right wing (i don't want to use the term nazi here) always extreme right wing...

in the later years they clearly stated that extremism whether it be right or left wing politically or even any other form of radicalism (religious for example) is wrong.

plus i think a lot of people overate any political comments in their songs. i listen to them since in my opinion their guitar solos for example offer way more than any other german alternative rock band be it die toten hosen or die ärzte...

i personally think it's funny that people today still complain about songs the onkelz wrote and performed almost 30 years ago but nobody seems to care when 10 year olds (like my cousin) listen to aggro berlin whose lyrics are at least as bad...


let me add another album i think is one of the greatest of all time:

Rage against the Machine RATM

greetz!

Oh yes, I have.


Don't let us forget that exactly because of these "songs" their "career" took off. Besides that, these songs aren't just "politically questionable" or "provocative". They're simply downright inhuman, racist and nationalist.





Anyway, while it is correct that they went "mainstream" long ago and their works cannot be considered extremist anymore, their music is still subtly informed by right-wing attitudes.


That's simply not true. The growing influence of right-wing politics on German pop music is in fact considered a big problem in Germany and has been dicussed for years.

Some examples:

Rap music and the far right: Germany goes gangsta
A new wave of rap music is sweeping Germany: sexist, violent, often racist - and adored by neo-Nazis. Ruth Elkins reports on the alarming advance of the shock troops of popular culture
http://www.turnitdown.de/489.html
http://www.ezilon.com/information/article_8042.shtml

Interview mit Bushido, Loh, Güngör
Harte Texte und die Härte der Nazis
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/artikel/666/55611/

Poschard, Ulf: "Stripped. Pop und Affirmation bei Kraftwerk, Laibach und Rammstein." Die Beute 3 (1999): 54-67.

Weber, Annette: "Miniaturstaat Rave-Nation. Konservatismus im Kontext der Techno-Community." Mainstream der Minderheiten. Pop in der Kontrollgesellschaft. Ed. Tom Holert, Mark Terkessidis. Berlin, Amsterdam: Edition ID-Archiv, 1996. 41-54.

(Moderator edit - Terry, I'm not particulary sensitive or prudish but it looks better if you can *** out some of the more basic four-letter words. Also the graphic bit about the gas chambers offended some of our readers - sorry to carve up your post but I think your point is still made. -Metrogirl.)

I'll admit that there will always be a market for music with neo-fashist lyrics, but just I really can't imagine as it being big enough to make a band as big and popular as it is today. There are of course also small record labels that have, do and will take "Nazi Bands" under contract.

In order to sell millions and millions of records though a band would need to be part of a far bigger record label such as Virgin (which is the Onkelz record label i believe). Especially in Germany I think a record label can't afford to take a "Nazi Band" under contract. As a German it's hard enough to show pride of being German without being hastily labelt as downright right wing nationalist. Just imagine what an uproar it would create if it would be decided to have a "Pledge of Allegiance" every morning at school... Except for the recent ad campaign "You are Germany" I haven't noticed a lot of public statements like the popular "Proud to be an American" Bumper Sticker pin whatever... Nor have I ever encountered a "Nation Spirit Day" at school as I have in the states... Now if a major German record label would take a "Nazi Band" as the Onkelz under contract don't you think they'd get slaughtered by the media as neo-fashist record label?



I haven't really noticed any more right wing attitudes as can be regulary read in BILD or Focus... Which are close to CDU/CSU so they should be considered rather middle right wing right? I guess more can't be said about the Onkelz political stance today... If they should me more right wing, I wonder why their main roadie, which they've had for years is Hindi.

Don't get me wrong I don't approve at all of the early Onkelz songs (By the way: Great effort translating the lyrics on your side), but I still consider them neutral (politically) today and think that they have more interesting instrumentals than die ärzte for example.



True, there were some articles relating to that issue in Spiegel, TAZ, Sueddeutsche and others. However talking to the average Joe out on the street, I'll bet that if you ask for a "Band with extreme nationalist tendencies" 8 of 10 would name Onkelz and maybe 1 Aggro Berlin and bands of that sort...



I didn't quite find these words, my englisch is rather rusty nowadays since it don't speak it too much anymore, sorry...

I guess this discussion could go on for days without ever coming to a "solution", so I guess its best to each recognize and maybe tolerate the others opinion.

Offering truce so to say

[OT] Interesting mp3s you linked by the way [/OT]



as for artistic creativity i think hommage would have to be paid to the prodigy - the fat of the land

the first "elektropunk" if you will

The Böhse Onkelz are definitively not a nazi Band, they made a benefit concert against racism.
The Lyrics you posted are some old stuff before their career begun witch is not relevant. Also In songs like “Hässlich, brutal, gewaltätig” (Ugly, brutal, violent) they are singing that they are NOT nazis. In songs like “Deutschland im Herbst” they are singing that nazis are stupid idiots.
I just take a look at a CD from 1986 (the pic), some songs on it are extremely violent but not racist. Maybe some songs like “Fussball und Gewalt” (soccer and violence) and “Mexico 86” (the soccer World cup 1986 was in Mexico) are cult songs for agressiv hooligans but NOT for Nazis. Many rappers are singing to sell drugs and kill someone with a gun (and no one is complaining ), so I think it’s OK that a rock band sing about soccer and violence.
The Böhse Onkelz has made over 20 years really good music and is just a cult band. I like them and I’m not a nazi just because I hear them and I’m German.
One of my favourite CD’s from the Onkelz (sorry for the bad scan I made):


BTW, it's just music nothing else

They have a cult status among neo-Nazi listeners. The fascist recordings in question (to which they do not hold any rights, interestingly) are still popular and being sold to their Nazi fan crowd. Pulicly they condemn Nazism, but at the same time they characterize themselves as "unpolitical" and do not care about fascist fans as long as they "behave themselves".


I think the lyrics speak for themselves, and if someone made "recreational" music that is favorably speaking about the killing of Jews and disparaging other minorities, this does matter and is relevant. Even more so when those same people renounce their history, but nonetheless continue to pursue an ultra-conservative agenda.


They are not openly racist anymore, but as I wrote above, their lyrics are still very much influenced by right-wing attitudes, such as pronounced masculinity, hatred of society and some sort of ghetto mentality that is fueled by conspiracy theories and some weird ideas about blood and honour.


I didn't mean to say they were Nazis, but that they had and have a cult status among Nazis and other extreme right-wing listeners. They were indeed fascists, and they still continue to espouse such right-wing attitudes as I delineated above through their music.



The problem with Onkelz, Aggro Berlin, and bands like Rammstein playing with nationalist, racist and even fascist symbols is that they close the gap between the mainstream and the extreme right wing. It is not O.K. to play down German history, especially not in a time in which growing right-wing extremism poses a challenge to German society. Hell, there are even complete towns in East Germany nowadays that are more or less controlled by neo-Nazis.

January 31, 2005
THE THREAT OF THE NPD
Rise of German Right-Wing Party Evokes Ghosts of Past
By Roland Nelles and Gabor Steingart
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/internatio...,339604,00.html

What these bands do is particularly harmful in view of the present agenda of extreme right-wing groups whose goal is to inject elements of their thinking into mainstream culture. That's the ultimate purpose of periodicals like the weekly "Junge Freiheit" ("Young Freedom"), to close the gap between conservatives and neo-fascists and thereby popularize neo-fascist ideas among those conservatives.

http://lexikon.idgr.de/j/j_u/junge-freihei...ge-freiheit.php
http://www.idgr.de/texte/rechtsextremismus.../jf-autoren.php

Onkelz, Aggro and Rammstein do receive a very warm welcome in these circles as they play directly into their hands.


Gelobt sei, wer affirmiert
Die »Neue Deutsche Härte« provoziert nicht, sie ist völkisch geerdet. Und das macht sie so erfolgreich. von daniel pagórek und dj kersten
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/periodika/jungl...2000/26/05a.htm

Feuer, das in Lust verbrennt
Musik: Nach vier Jahren ist ein neues Rammstein-Album rschienen
http://www.jf-archiv.de/archiv01/171yy32.htm

The problem is as follows, just like German pop critic Diederich Diederichsen has once pointed out: Musicians can't in fact do anything about racism or fascism in the world. They can, however, make sure that their works of art, which naturally involve ambiguity to a certain degree, cannot be decoded "the wrong way", i.e., in a fascist sense.

The Onkelz continue to identify themselves as "unpolitical". In some of their songs they despise Nazism, but also anti-fascism. Their lyrics are still marked by a huge influence of fascist topoi, so this makes their statements look rather odd in the end.


It is not O.K. to glorify chauvinism and violence without any critical inclinations. That said, inform yourself about the beginnings of the Nazi-skinhead movement in Germany. Its roots lie exactly in the hooligan subculture around those rock bands, the most prominent of them being the Onkelz. Political ring-wing extremism and hooligan subculture are still very much intertwined in Germany and in Europe in general, just have a peek at Italy where it is even worse.


No, that isn't true. Gangsta Rap continues to stir big controversy in the US and abroad. Just read some of the clever essays or record reviews by the great cultural critic Greg Tate which appear regularly in the Village Voice, for instance. Or take note of such institutions like the Hip Hop Summit Network (motto: "Taking back responsibility"). And while speaking about that, I want to point out that at least early Gangsta Rap (not the contemporary, overly commercial stuff) has some merits as it sparked discussion on the devastating life circumstances of underprivileged inner-city blacks. Please also note that this African-American art form is rich of double-meanings and word-play, known as "signifyin'" (ever heard of 'playing the dozens'?), so you can never be sure what to take literally and what not. This vernacular is definitely not part of the culture that European right-wing rockers or even some German hip-hop flatheads draw from.

Again, here are some resources which I was referring to in particular on this matter:

Married to the Hook
The corporations murdered hiphop and all I got was this lousy G-Unit throwback jersey
by Greg Tate
http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0511,tate1,62025,22.html
(Greg Tate's witty review of 50 Cent's hit album 'The Massacre', pretty funny and very much on point)

Hiphop Turns 30
Whatcha celebratin' for?
by Greg Tate
January 4th, 2005 3:23 PM
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0501,tate,59766,2.html

Gates, Henry Louis, Jr.: The Signifying Monkey. A Theory of Afro-American Literary Criticism. Oxford, New York et. al.: OXford University Press, 1988.
http://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/ga...pts/monkey.html


http://www.colorado.edu/English/engl2010mk/2gates.html

The dozens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_momma

Some History about Playing the Dozens
http://www.online-magazine.com/snaps.htm

Also see the section "Hidden Politics: Discursive and Institutional Policing of Rap Music" from the chapter "Prophets of Rage. Rap Music and the Politics of Black Cultural Expression" in Tricia Rose: Black Noise. Rap Music and Black Culture in Contemporary America. Hanover, London: Wesleyan University Press, 1994 (pp. 124-145).

Chapter 13, "Bring the Noise" from David Toop: Rap Attack. Third Edition. London: Serpent's Tail, 2000 (pp. 169-185).

Ruth Mayer: "Schmutzige Fakten. Wie sich Differenz verkauft." Mainstream der Minderheiten. Pop in der Kontrollgesellschaft. Ed. Tom Holert, Mark Terkessidis. Berlin, Amsterdam: Edition ID-Archiv, 1996. 153-168.

"HipHop, Rassismus und die Krise der Pop-Subversion. Ein Interview mit Günther Jacob", printed in: David Dufresne: Rap Revolution. Geschichte - Gruppen - Bewegung. Zurich, Mainz: Atlantis, 1997 (pp. 420-441).

OK Terry, I just want clear some things and then we should talk again about Music (politic is not very interesting).
There are some fascist in Germany but not very much. There are still enough anarchists & punks in the most towns to control the situation.
On the elections (except some local elections) the Nazis never received 5% to enter the German parliament since the 2nd world war.
Here’s a spot of my favorite political party that everyone can see that we Germans aren’t all Nazis and that many of us are just some apolitical party animals (maybe sometimes not political correct):
http://rapidshare.de/files/10522648/wahlsp...d-2005.wmv.html
This spot seems to be a funny music spot but it is really from a political party the APPD, their leader is singer from a punk band. During the elections in October 2005, German television broadcast it during the prime time . Unfortunately Angela Merkel has won the elections and not Wolfgang Wendland (party animal Nr.1).
Let’s talk about Music again now, here is one more great album:
Slime: Alle gegen Alle (oldschool punk)

Terry has de-registered so you probably won't be getting a reply, which is a pity - the debate was interesting if sometimes a little heated.

Holy crap!! I came here seeking refuge from the battle of Adobe vs Unibins, and it's even more heated here!!!
...anyway, here's my list:

back in black -*- AC-DC
rumours -*- Fleetwood Mac
4 -*- Led Zepplin
rush of blood to the head -*- Coldplay
psalm 69 -*- Ministry
ziggy stardust -*- David Bowie
angel dust -*- Faith no more
abbey road -*- Beatles
thicker than water -*- Jack Johnson (compliation, soundtrack)
independant worm saloon -*- Butthole Surfers
Tribute -*- Ozzy Osbourne (damn, that takes me back)

...in no particular order

yeah!

how about:

WIZO UUÄÄRGH!

especially the track Raum der Zeit

Well, i've got 3 nominees;

Pearl Jam - Ten
Marillion - Marbles Live
Oasis - The Masterplan

All three just gems.

Queen-A night at the opera
U2-The Joshua tree
The Beatles-White Album

Muse - Origin of Symmetry

Hmmm, interesting thread... Here's my list in the order I think of them (limited to one album per artist)

-Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd (Animals is close 2nd)
-The White Album - The Beatles (Abbey Road too)
-Led Zeppelin II - Led Zeppelin
-Amused to Death - Roger Waters
-Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick (can't forget Aqualung)
-Dire Straits - Calling Elvis (and Brothers in Arms)
-Soundgarden - SuperUnknown
-Bjork - Debut (or any of her first 4 albums!)
-Underworld - Dubnobasswithmyheadman (or Beaucoup Fish)
-Paul Oakenfold - Voyage into Trance (and Goa Mix Gold)
-Beck - Guero (also Odelay!)

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

1. The Beatles - Rubber Soul
2. Simon and Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water
3. U2 - The Joshua Tree

Aw yeah, Cyrana. That's what I'm talking about - some good oldies goodness. (And yes, U2 is old enough to be on oldies stations!)

I'm surprised no one mentioned any motown. I'm a huge fan of the Four Tops and the Temptations, although I'm not sure they're the greatest of all time.

Stevie Wonder also had a huge influence - he deserves a spot somewhere here.

Well, I'm getting up there I guess. Although even to me the Beatles and Simon and Garfunkel are oldies. Now, calling U2 old makes me feel old. lol.