for the nth time: there is not and will never ever be any CI support for any card below a 9550.

p-J16: Katana's autodetect script doesn't work for the 9100 card that you and I have (5835). It probably could and should work, but the card is a bit rare and probably not in the detection code. But it doesn't really matter. Katana is only an installer for the stuff you can already use. A standardized installer like katana is meant to be used when things are already working. Since they're not for us, stick to the basics and using different combinations.

Things you guys can try to do that I've failed on in the past year or so with older versions:
-Try to get current agpart to load with the ATI 8500 driver OR the old 3rd party ATI.kext that JAS made.
-The ATI 8500 driver is pretty crap. JAS's while old and primitive might actually be a better option to play with, yet there's very few test results on this.
-Mess with different versions of callisto + agpart

Just keep trying stuff and testing the results. Report what you get (faster results, kernel panic etc.) And make sure you list all the relevant information (card id, agpart version, callisto version etc). A lot of possible breakthroughs are vague and inconclusive because they don't include all the details. Saying you have a 9000 or a 9100 isn't specific enough. And forget about katana for now!

I don't have the time to test this stuff, so please someone with time and a free system to kill mess around. Note if you do crash your system (and you probably will messing with this stuff) there are lots of ways to restore the old drivers:
-boot in single user mode from Darwin boot disk or install disk and copy backed up files back to the extensions folder
-use something like macdrive etc.

Also if anyone has an ATI board, please check if you can get agpart to load. Back in july this was causing crashes.

Oh yea and read this thread:
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=24574

There's gotta be some ideas on things to try and what needs to happen from what the 7500 guys did. I haven't had time to go through this.

Also look into 9200 family stuff as well like this thread:
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=36383

Those cards use the 8500 driver too, which is our main problem. I've seen a couple scattered reports in the last year of opengl or QE working on 8500 series cards, but they all tend to be vague and unconfirmed and not replicated.

Hello,

I thought I'd join the thread. I'm the proud owner of a Dell Latitude D600. Great laptop, but Mobility Radeon 9000... A pity it doesn't work too well in OSX but it works fine in Linux and Windows.

Hope something can happen! Even screensavers are so so slow here

I used Katana 0.2 but the autodetection didn't work. So I used the latest Katana 0.3 which installed, but System Properties said kext not loaded. So I installed Callisto and edited the CallistoHAL.kext to include my device ID and rebooted. My card is recognised, but no QE. Shame.

I have AGPgart running and my card is recognised as AGP. Callisto is version 008. No image problems. Just no QE.

I been using Callisto 003 (fixed) version and AGPGart 2.1z and its pretty slow here I hear QE/CI don't get along with AGPGart but some people have sucess with it I'll keep messing around with 8500 kexts and try to get it to load (or recognize) or try to get the Jaguar Version to work (OpenGL AND 8500 kexts thats when Mobility 9000 was around i think) if any body gets anything like Screensaver Improvement or OpenGL improvement, let the thread know of how u did it or just email me

Ok News update from me

I did some tinking with 8500 Kexts and with Callisto + AGP and i found out that they don't work well when kextloaded i kextloaded ATI8500.kext and it doesn't work, I know the kext was never completed but it doesn't not work but, what eles is left?

I don't think callisto is the answer honestly. I was working on getting AGPart working on ATI boards with joblo in july and he told me that to get anywhere with QE etc. we needed to get the 8500 driver to load. It's pretty common knowledge that the driver is a little screwy and that Apple didn't finish/fix it etc. and it might never load. I think I've seen one or two claims that it did though, so it's not impossible. There is one other option though, thats JAS's driver as I mentioned before. If someone can get one of those drivers to load w/o a kernel panic, then you have a real ATI driver (callisto is just a framebuffer and not a complete driver from what I understand). Couple that with AGP bus with AGPart and you're good to go. Not as easy as it sounds, but this is what Joblo lead me to believe. And there was someone who reported QE a while back using the old JAS driver and AGPart.

Someone summarize for me what the 7500 people did. Or maybe next week I'll look into it. The only difference is they don't have this bad driver issue like we do... the 7500 kext is fine, in fact I have an old 7500 laptop that loads it perfectly.

I might add that until the driver issue is solved, I don't think there will be any QE. So short of some breakthrough I think we need a new driver to be written for that. However it seems that getting hardware OpenGL is more achievable and enough fooling around and trying combinations might just manage that.

Hi everyone.

I have installed JAS Mac OS X on my IBM Thinkpad T41 with a Radeon Mobility 9000 PCI praphics card. And as everyone is saying in here it does not work properly out of the box.

Where im going at is that if you need someone to test something im right here to help. I am although a linux/unix/ whatever you call it newbie so i have to have everything explained.

Im afraid i cant help in any other way, simply dont understand programming at any level

Is it possible to import ATIs linux drivers in any way?

If yes here are the releasenotes:

http://www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/linux_8.8.25.html

Well it could be possible but its hard porting linux to Mac due to diffrences in code and arch but i;m not smart enough to do that, we need an x lab dev for this

OK i did some tinkering with the ATI MOBILITY 7500.dmg that the 7500 people used and i extracted the OpenGL.framework from it and guess what

PERFORMANCE INCREASE!!!

BIG PERFORMANCE INCREASE,

Its working well with AGPGart + Callisto b003 and the 8500 kexts but i did it in fullscreen mode with flurry and the frame rates are ALOT faster than with out the 10.4.1 OpenGL.framework, we just need to get it at FULL speed and then were set for Quartz Extreme, Chess Works Beautifully i don't know about VLC but we're getting closer

good job! You mentioned the 8500 kexts... Clarify if they were just there, or if you actually got the atiradeon 8500 kext to load. (kextstat in terminal).

And for anyone interested in more tinkering projects here's the thread with the old JAS driver (pre-callisto effort at community driver):
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=4301

Oh and what version of agpart? What's your card deviceid? You're a 4c66 right? Also see how it does w/o callisto.

I'll hopefully get some time next week, and might do a fresh install and do a bit of poking around myself.

Another thing that might be worth looking into: Someone check the version on all the radeon8500 kexts from each osx version. It should be in version.plist. See if the thing has changed at all since 10.4.1. If so, its worth trying the different versions.

i have AGP from THIS forum, Universal Beta, My Card ID is 4c66,, and it works good with callisto, i changed in ALL the 8500 kexts, the IOProviderClass
string>CallistoFB</string

I think we should use the 8500 kexts from 10.4.1, i'm going to test the ones from Jaguar, OpenGL.framework and Kexts, thats when ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 in iBooks was around

Good!!! Freaky!
I Will attend with anxiety news, and even... a howto!!with the files specific, because it is not easy to find them!!
Tnx, good luck FMac

Hi i just wanted to keep this thread open so that we can get a howto done in here. Very nice work guys its lovely that we can have our old 9000 cards working

Cheers!

dang this is amazing news!

By the way, won't the Jaguar kexts be PPC? I can't see them working myself..

I think the 7500+8500 kexts/OpenGL hacking is the solution

Great news Keep us updated guys

Just to let y'all know, I'm keeping an eye on this thread. As our solutions get more solid and repeatable I will be updating the first post!

Ok peeps, i tried the OpenGl.framework from the Jaguar CD's and it won't work with my system, I'll try the 8500 kexts, if they don't work, then we'll stick with 10.4.1, The OpenGL.framework from 10.4.1 works WONDERFULLY! but its the full screen the has improved without the 10.4.1 OpenGL.framework but its still slow with fullscreen but the 7500 package works, I would recommend downloading it and manually extracting the OpenGL.framework from it to get a HUGE performance increase but fullscreen is slow but its a little faster than before

Ok peeps i made a package that has OpenGL.framework, This is my first package with X Code so i hope it works

http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/117099/Op...ge-pkg-zip.html

Enjoy

Hi FreakyMac!

Thanks for this file. I'll give it a try later and report back.

Would you mind if I mirror the file on my server?

Sure but i think theres a problem with it

Thnx FreakyMac, i'll give it a try

Hey Guys, Looks at THIS:Click to view attachment

I'm not able to duplicate it FreakyMac. My xbench graphics scores are slightly lower if anything since agpgart/callisto/opengl framework. Flurry isn't noticeably faster.

Using:
AGPGart 1.0 from the 7500 package (2.1z and 2.2 aren't recognizing my card, will try others later)
ATIRadeon8500 1.4.40 from 10.4.8 (will try your 1.4.26 later, but I suspect it makes no difference)
OpenGL framework 1.4.1.7.0
Callisto b003

Are you using any other wierd kext versions? ie not from default 10.4.8 install.

hey FreakyMac - nice work. What kexts are you using and what have you modified?

I still haven't tested this myself.. I will get round to it.

Hey guys,

Would it be possible to post a quick round-up of where we are at? Which files are being used, which have been edited etc.

If you need space to upload these files I can pop them onto my server.

Hmm. the ATIRadeon8500.kext from 10.4.8 won't load, so I guess we really do need the kext from 10.4.1 - but I don't have this.

Can anybody help with getting this file please?

Ok. I've been tinkering and this is where I'm at:

OpenGL kext as supplied by FreakyMac.
Callisto b003
AGPGart 2.2.0
System profiler reports AGP, but no kexts loaded.
Restore the ATIRadeon8500 kexts from the Katana backup folder. Rebooted, OSX couldn't load the kext (which is correct as the kext from 10.4.8 is buggy).
root:wheel on the extensions added
Removed extensions.kextcache & extensions.mkext and did the kextcache -k
Rebooted
Hangs on boot. damnit. I probably broke something.
re-install time.


I believe FreakMac is using the kext from 10.4.1 - which I don't have.

We will get a solution to this!

I got the 10.4.8 ATIRadeon8500.kext (version 1.4.40) to load. Freakymac is using 10.4.7's (1.4.26) However I'm using AGPGart 1.0. I can't get the 2.x to recognize my AGP.

9100 (devid 5835)
ATI mobo w/AGP devid of 5838

Just tryed it, but i doent see the 8500 kext loaded, but videos play a lot smooter now

Right. I've re-installed and done the following:

Install Katana 0.3a4 (gives AGPGart2 and Callisto 003)
Install OpenGL from FreakyMac

System Profiler shows the card as using AGP, not PCI. I don't know if the OpenGL package is working or not.

What ATI kexts do I need to install?

p-J16: What exactly did you do? You're on nearly identical hardware as me. Also 8500 kext won't load unless you add 0x58351002 in the plist. The 4c66 card is in there but ours isn't. And what version of AGPGart are you using, also what versions of the 8500 kexts?

Go to system profiler>extensions if you're not sure what versions you're using.

flibblesan: just start trying stuff. Freakymac told me he was using 10.4.7 atiradeon8500.kext but i haven't verified that. from his screenshot its version 1.4.26.

Let's start compiling all the different versions of everything, and be sure to let everyone know exactly what versions of all involved kexts you are using if you make any progress.

I've tried the ATIRadeon8500.kext from 10.4.8 and it doesn't work. It's got the correct device in Info.plist but it doesn't want to load. I believe this version is faulty.

The thing is.. I've got exactly the same hardware as FreakyMac yet I cannot replicate his success

flibble, Use the 8500.kext from 10.4.7, thats what i used

ok people this is what i did, I followed the How to From 'QE on the 7500' so i'll just post it here

OpenGL.framework from 10.4.1 (Get it from the 7500 pack)
Use ATIRadeon8500GLDriver.bundle from 10.4.1 (get it from 10.4.1)
Install Callisto 003
AGPGart Beta 2.1z Intel Driver (You HAVE to get this working)

ATIRadeon8500.kext, ATIRadeon8500GA.plugin, and ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle from 10.4.7
(someone please test this with the version from 10.4.5/10.4.6 please.)

Thats what i did

Allright, bit of an update after fooling around:

FreakyMac, you're not using 10.4.7 kexts you're using 10.4.6. From your screenshot you're using version 1.4.26 of the ATIRadeon8500.kext. 10.4.7's is 1.4.32, and 10.4.8 has 1.4.40

In addition, what version is your ATIRadeon8500VA.bundle? You didn't mention this one at all in your previous post.

Speaking of versions, I'd like to know what you're using for the following:
IOPCIFamily.kext
ATINDRV.kext
IONDRVSupport.kext

They may have some relevance, esp IOPCIFamily.kext. There's a lot of talk about AGPGart 2.x not working with IOPCIFamily 1.9 and higher, and 1.7 (modded from 10.4.3) or 1.8 (vanilla 10.4.4) are recommended in some places.

I'm not able to use AGPGart 2.x, as I've got an unsupported ATI motherboard (AGP Bus: pci1002,5838). This was the problem 9 months ago, and still is for me, and probably also P-J16. So I get an AGP bus reported in profiler and in dmesg only with AGPGart 1.0, though 2.x extensions will load. I had a look at the source though and it may be possible to mod agpgart a bit to fix this. I'll look more closely later. It looks fairly simple, but I haven't messed with xcode as of yet. Anyone else that's interested, you can get the src at:
http://x86dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=5.0

Anyone having problems with AGPGart in general should visit that site as well, it's Joblo's dev forum.

If anyone wants files to play with, I've got everything from 10.4.1 to 10.4.8.

Shame.. I don't have any files from 10.4.1 or 10.4.6 etc

need to find these somewhere

Anything from 10.4.5 and later is easy: just download the intel update for that version from Apple and use pacifist to extract stuff from /System/Installation/Packages/Essentials.pkg

As for 10.4.1, I've got those files if anyone wants them. If someone wants to host them somewhere, that would be great

I've got 10.4.3 and 10.4.4 too if someone would like stuff from them.

im using 10.4.7 because i got the 8500 kext from my JaS 10.4.7 DVD and im using the IOPCIFamily.kext ATINDRV.kext IONDRVSupport.kext from 10.4.8, i don't mess around with them, and i didn't use the 8500VA.bundle anyway, By the way, i got the 9700.kext to load

I found my old JaS 10.4.6 DVD so I extracted some kexts from it. I also downloaded the updates as suggested so now I've got kexts for 10.4.6, 10.4.7, 10.4.8, & 10.4.9

Unfortunately I don't have anything older than 10.4.6

Which version had a properly working 8500 kext?

FreakyMac: Does the 9700 kext support the 9000?

if u add ur Dev id it will

getting the kext to load doesn't necessarily mean it is doing anything. For example I'm loading AGPGart 2.1z but w/o detecting any AGP bridge. But that is interesting. Keep messing around with it and xbench etc to see if anything has changed performancewise.

Flibblesan: the 9700 doesn't *support* the 9000, but its remotely possible that it could be *made to work*... I have some doubts though, its dealing with completely different cards and has the addition of pci-e stuff... I actually think our cards are more akin to the 7500 ones. Anyone try getting ATIRadeon.kext (the 7500 one) to load?

FreakyMac: using a 10.4.7 dvd doesn't mean you're using 10.4.7 kexts. The install dvds are patched up with kexts from various sources. They're not pure versions but rather what is deemed to work best at the time of release for the largest number of systems. Unless someone uses the exact same install dvd as you, we can't be sure what you're using. So you see, its quite tough to piece together w/o knowing your versions. No one's duplicated your thing yet, so its best to try and figure out what the differences are between your system and everyone else's

The ONLY way to know what you're using is to report actual kext versions. These can be found in system profiler under Extensions and Frameworks, and also show up when you do a kextstat. For stuff like bundles and other stuff, the version is usually in the Info.plist and the Version.plist inside the kext.

You posted a screenshot of your system profiler showing that the ATIRadeon8500.kext had loaded. It's showed as 1.4.26. This is the version that you get from the 10.4.6 apple upgrade. 10.4.7 uses 1.4.32. So you're using a 10.4.7 dvd that contains ATIRadeon8500 kexts from 10.4.6.

Didn't know that and i might fiddle around with the Radeon kexts

oh and it doesn't seem to matter much what version of the 8500.kext you use. They all load load w/o a kernel panic suprisingly. Stick to 10.4.6 since that's what FreakyMac is using, but I don't think it matters. But just play around, try different things. This stuff is more trial and error than anything.

argh!

I replaced the ATI kexts as suggested... and now I can't boot into OSX.

oh well.. it was worth a try.. i'm getting a new laptop anyway

edit: phew. removed the 9700 kext and it's working again. Editing that screwed up my system, so that's not the answer.

hmm did you get any error messages while booting flibblesan? Presumably it said something before it hung. Using the 9700 stuff is pretty dangerous, as is a lot of this stuff really. Having kernel panics is sort of a fact of life with this stuff.

Just for anyone who doesn't know: if you can't boot your installation due to changes you made with this stuff, you can boot up your install dvd, and when you get past the language screen you can go up to the finder bar in utilities and start terminal. Then just navigate to /Volumes/ and your hard drive should be mounted there. You can simply cd to that directory and you're in the / dir of your hard drive. Then just go to /System/Library/Extensions/ and remove all the stuff you changed. You don't *need* any of this video stuff to boot, and if you back up all your stuff somewhere like you should, then it will be easy to fix

ATIRadeon.kext loads but no improvement..


~FreakyMac

The ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 Is Capable of QE (i know duh) but its proven by this:

http://www.projectomega.org/article.php?lg...extreme&p=1

Who can benefit of QE on his computer?
If you have a desktop computer, you need one of the following graphic cards:

nVidia GeForce 2MX/3/4MX/4Ti

ATI Radeon 7500/8500/9000 (forthcoming 9700???)



If you have a laptop computer, you need one of the following graphic cards:

ATi Radeon Mobility GPU (while Apple first said that 32MB of VRAM were required, they stated later that any laptop with 16MB of VRAM would benefit of QE)

Why cannot everyone benefit of QE?
There are mainly two reasons which will prevent you from using QE on your computer, and they are both hardware limitations of the graphic card you may have.


Older graphic cards, such as the unfamous Rage 128 Pro which has been widely installed with older G3s and G4s doesn't support textures that are not sized as power of 2 (i.e. 2, 4, 8, ... 256, etc.) Since you don't expect your windows to be limited to power of two sizes, you can't expect to have QE enabled on these cards.

Older graphic cards have as few as 4MB, 8MB to 16MB of video RAM. This is very little compared to what QE needs. Let's do the maths. A 300p x 300p in 32bits color depth window will need 300x300x32x2 = 5760000 bits (the latest 2 comes because of the fact that windows are double buffered in Mac OS X. Correct me if I'm wrong). 5760000b is equal to approximately 700kB. Now imagine that your Mac resolution is at least 1024x768, and that you have almost always about 10 windows, a lot of icons in your Dock, etc. and you'll understand why 8MB is really useless for Quartz Extreme, and 16MB is the minimum supported by Apple, but as the 128MB minimum RAM required by Mac OS X, they are very inadequate. When VRAM is not available anymore on the video card, the same thing that happens when you don't have enough RAM happens for your video card: your computer swaps, everything goes so slow that you can take a nap before that window finishes resizing ;-)

Did anyone tryed this?

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=8472

or

i have ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 64MB with my laptop,i konw i should use the "callisto b003"driver for it in Mac OS X 10.4.7 from here, TKS guys!!

i have got a callisto b003fixed_good.zip,but it does not work properly.

The 14" LCD now is at 1024*768*16bitcolor, if i changed it to 32bit, the LCD could not display normally.

i tried callisto b006 last night and failed.

how can i solve it.

Can someone upload all ATI 8500 kexts from 10.4.1?
I tried to find it before I posted this message,
beleive me.
I want to test it, but I don't have the material for
testing. :-)
Probably it wil be usefull for many people.

Thank you.

Sasha, We can't post Those kexts, Its against the DMA Rules, how do u think this forum got shut down for awhile in 2005

(I Think?)

I don't see anything against the law if you post a driver.
8500 kext are drivers for ATI 9xxx cards.
Also, many posts on this forum contains attachments with kexts, including Ati 7500 (the one you download for your testing).

May be I'm wrong?

Whatever, if you find that there is no problem, please upload it.

Maybe you can make some tutorial also if you have time.
(all the kexts needed + how to)

See you around,

Sasha