"Apple is internally running a complete, x86-compatible version of Jaguar, a k a Mac OS X 10.2, which shipped last week. "

- Apple Keeps x86 Torch Lit with 'Marklar'
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1656622,00.asp




was it ever leaked?

I wish!

Still, it would be neat to see. I've wondered if a 10.1 or 10.2 build would still have the SSE2 limitation. It would be very neat to have OSX on my old P3 laptop or dually P3, even if it wasn't particularly functional!

if anyone knows where a copy would be available could they please help us out?

ALSO, would the same source modifications semthex used on the 10.4.8 kernel work on the open source version of an earlier OS X that doesn't rely on sse2? that would be an osx86 breakthrough if that was possible.

I remember reading that on my old pentium 3 box back when the article was released and remember thinging about how coolit would be for me to have a copy of OS X on my PC...Granted I had a Pentium 1 system I was using for rhapsody DR2 almost every day.

we must get a copy of this 10.2 x86 build or find a way to get OS X working using an old kernel (if that's possible).

Good luck.

i know where to get it. you go to apple's headquarters (1 infinite loop, cupertino, california). make sure you enter via the back door as there are guards with machine guns at the front door. turn left at the first hallway. right at the next. right again. go down the stairs straight ahead. turn left. go down the other flight. turn right. go to the safe. the code's 8-90-24. careful. move too fast and it'll set off the alarm. there's 351 dvds in that safe. one of them contains mac os x jaguar x86 edition. if you can, just take them all since they only have dates on them. good luck getting out of there, though. they have silent alarms everywhere and if you set one off there's no way to know without having a machine gun pointed at you.

well this : http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsour...nx86-141.iso.gz
is 10.0 darwin binary (x86)
and this : http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.0/
is the 10.0 darwin source

i found out that older versions of darwin don't require sse2 but most os x applications require sse2 to run. still... getting os x to run would be an accomplishment.

I don't think it would need to be patched and it should support SSE2 CPU's. 10.2 was introduced in 2002 and SSE3 was introduced in 2004.

It was an internal development build to be used on "ADP" machines, which basically were regular PC's, I suppose.

So,

Finding it should be sufficient.

If this had leaked, wouldnt it have been a similiar situation to the release of OSx86? What I mean is we would have had the same situation as we had last november, only a 3 years ago. OS X on x86 would have been huge even 3 years ago.... I might be wrong of course.

it did leak to the internet... http://www.mymac.com/showarticle.php?id=1048

it did leak... Marklar-Tiger.iso so, all i have to do now is find that {censored}


well, that wasnt hard, i found it, just gotta check if it has seeds cant wait to share!

found two copies, an iso copy and an .dmg, im downloading both and cant wait to get them done for you guys

Um...Marklar-Tiger.iso sounds like a 10.4 image to me.

mcskywalker: the 10.2 darwin kernel (x86) runs on sse-only pc's. I had it running on my p3 laptop a while ago.

EDIT: The Marklar build of Tiger was the first build to be leaked to the public. I think that if Jaguar was leaked it would be a very rare find.

we have the darwin kernel source for the x86 10.2 build but we don't have the rest of the jaguar intel files. if we can't get the jaguar x86 build then the only other option would be to try and use the jaguar kernel with tiger, but still most of tiger probably relies on sse2.

lol, yep, i figured that out...

this would be cool, i love 10.2, it almoast passes tiger in my view

well we need to do what semthex did with 10.4.8 kernel?

No, we need to have the original image, that probably is not protected and doesn't need any patches.
I think the only place where we can have some chances to find it is at the Apple Campus in Cupertino
Sherry Haibara

The latest version of darwin that does not require SSE2 is OS X 10.4 - darwin kernel version 8.0.0.
8.0.1 is the first version that requires SSE2.
the kernel version in marklar-tiger.dmg is 8.1 (10.4.1), so it may be possible to use the earlier tiger kernel in the marklar-tiger image with a bit of modifying.

please correct me if any of this info is wrong.

EDIT: remember, we got every version of OS X from 10.4.4 to 10.4.8 running on 8.4.1 kernel. And also got leopard running on the tiger 10.4.8 kernel.

cant we just use a 10.2 install dvd?

soundless miht be right, i don't think they had great security/hd security back then. did they?

No, we can't.
We haven't got ANY 10.2 install DVD that works on Intel processors, we only have the PPC version of Jaguar.
And still if we can make 10.4.1 running on processors without SSE2 instructions, it seems to be pointless, because almost every universal binary actually shipping requires at least Mac OS X 10.4.3/4.
But... I just saw somewhere that the internal 10.4.2 build of Mac OS X x86 was hacked to allow the applications built with it or further releases of Mac OS X run on previous Mac OS X x86 releases too, so... Maybe we can make a lot of applications work even without 10.4.3 and even without SSE2.
Sherry Haibara

that's great news, so what files do we need to get a hold of?

is the 10.4.2 exec patch the one you're talking about Sherry?

Yes, it is.
If I remember correctly, Apple introduced a new type of binary with 10.4.2 which cannot run on previous releases of Mac OS X x86. Anyway, someone (maybe Maxxuss?) hacked it and find a way to make those binaries to run well even with 10.4.1.
Sherry Haibara

EDIT: nevermind, I've found this:

So it seems that we cannot even run younger applications.

i'm sure that as long as we got it running and demonstrated it, people would be interested enough to patch it up for the sse people. maybe we might even get some help from some real kernel gurus like semthex.
let's just see what we can do and then worry about application compatibility later.

this is kindof a non sequitor, but i might be @ the apple hq in may. people said that they would need the orriginal image, i it is not under copyright or any protection, i could ask nicely for it.

ur going to apple hq, i thought u needed to be invited to go. and i doubt they'll just give u 10.2

i am going to be in the cupertino area, my parents know i like apple, they would drop me off, and i could shoot the breeze with the security guard if they dont let me in.

haha, good luck with that soundless.

anyways, i spoke to semthex about the kernel today and he said the problem is not with the kernel, it's with the non open source extensions and that we can boot the current kernel with "-s" to run on sse. so does somebody have a list of all the extensions which require sse2? if so, post plz.

ta,
Dragon

soundless i know the chances are low... but if you get that dvd, i will be very happy.

It'll probably be on two CDs
Ok, and for Tiger so the problems are extensions and closed-system apps (like the Finder and the Dock)?
So we still need an SSE2 emulator, isn't it?
But if between SSE2 and SSE3 there are only few differences, between SSE and SSE2 there are a LOT of new instructions.
And remember that SSE-only processors are usually slow...
It'll be useless, maybe.
Sherry Haibara

maybe we could get it loading different versions of the extensions? older ones perhaps?

what i'm saying is.. maybe we can avoid emulating sse2 by using combinations of open source/hacked stuff we've already got that can run without.

what are we trying to do here? Tiger on SSE or OSx86 10.2?

We're trying to obtain a copy of Mac OS X 10.2 for Intel.

Nobody has it, except the apple developers in cupertino and I seriously doubt they would agree on handing it over. Tiger on SSE is the simplest solution we have in our hands considering the information, source and files on our hands. So is anybody interested? If not, i'll just shut up and continue dreaming over a 10.2 x86 being *given to us*.

Dragon

its probably in the "vault", not laying around on someones' desk, just tell them you wanna try it on your macbook.

This thread is most amusing.

One Word: Lol

shard: what's so amusing? :S

erm.... got to say this is a bit daft. You are going to walk into 1 infinate loop and ask nicely for a beta operating system that was never meant to leave Apples possession - not even as a developer copy like Rhapsody?

dream on ;-)

however, I have a couple of 'Coppermine' PCs that would like Tiger, even if it means removing a load of Apps like iTunes and Safari that need SSE2. What we need is a list of Apps and parts of the OS that need SSE2, then we can write emulators, write around or replace as neccesary.

just my 2p

after scouring limewire, i found 2 things that caught my eye:

"cheetah_intel.toast"
"marklarpanther.iso"

cheetah_intel.toast is taking way too long to download. the speed is about 500bps and the file is 637 mb. it also keeps disconnecting from the host so dont get excited"

marklarpanther.iso wont download, its "looking for sources".

i doubt they are real, but you never know. if you want to try and find it on limewire, just put in "marklar" or "panther" and it should come up. but i had to wait like 1 minutes before i saw them because limewire slowly connects to each peer.

Cheetah is, from what i remember, 10.0 and Panther is 10.3.

Now off to google to look for those files.

i agree with you embio, we need a list.
ResXhacker : i can't find these on limewire... i just get spam >< how long did you hav to search to find them?


Dragon

I just think its easier to work with what we do have rather than what we could have. We know that Apple developer machines used Pentium 4s for Tiger, but what about Jaguar or anything earlier??

I wouldn't expect anything less than P4.

apple have compiled an x86 build for every release of OS X since beta. even since rhapsody nextstep they have had x86 builds. i would guess that they used a range of computers from pentium IIs to P4's.

I think McSkywalkers right in this case, the P4 was released around the same time as Cheetah...

The darwin kernel for cheetah does not require sse2.