If you haven't been living under a rock the past few days you'd know that Obama picked Senator Joe Biden as his VP running mate. I say it's a good decision. What say you?

At least spell Joe Biden's name right...

How do you know that Biden wasn't choosen by the people who control Obama?



I say it confirms the worst about Obama.

(1) One can conclusively determine that Biden is a lying piece of $hit with any five second sound bite (just like Bill Clinton or John Kerry). Moreover, the guy is a plagiarist, just google "Biden + plagiarism": http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&clie...earch&meta=

(2) Biden is a member of the Council of Foreign Relation (CFR). For the clueless, this is the group of American elite, apparently lead by David Rockefeller, that essentially attempts controls the country and much of the world from behind the scenes. Dick Cheney was formerly the director of the CFR. Biden has publically advocated the "New World Order", which is euphemism for Anglo-American world domination : http://www.infowars.com/?p=4140

(3) Biden met with the Pakistani Intelligence chief, who wired $100k to Mohammed Atta (leader of the 9/11 "hijackers"), on 9/13/08 (two days after 9/11): http://www.infowars.com/?p=4134

In short, Obama's "choice" of Biden essentially proves that Obama is the type of "Manchurian" candidate that he is accused of being by Webster Tarpley (and others): http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Postmodern-Mak...e/dp/0930852885 The idea of Obama being the candidate for "Real Change" then picking a "good old boy" for VP like Biden , who has been in the Senate since the time of Nixon, is an absurd contradiction. It is quite obvious the Obama is just a CFR tool, whose handler is apparently Zbigniew Brzezinski. I think this sums up the situation quite well:

Let’s call Barack Obama what he is—a sock puppet for the ruling elite.

http://moderate.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/o...on-family-feud/

Of course, even if the corporate-controlled media did point out the obvious implications made by the facts about Obama's "friends" which now include Biden, Americans are too stupid to understand. So with Obama-Biden, we will have a switch from right-wing, top-down fascism (corporate-controlled) to left-wing, bottom-up (people-powered). Either way, Obama or McCain, the CFR types remain in power as they ultimately control both candidates and will continue to expand the American empire. An Obama regime will likely target Russia more, while a McCain regime may prefer Iran. Get ready for war and of course, more staged "terrorism".

I think Joe Biden was a great choice! I like his personality, I think they both compliment eachother

I think Joe Biden is a solid choice, although the plagiarism pointed out by bofors is very unappealing.

Yeah I agree Obama is just a tool. The FISA vote confirmed it. Obama is no better than Bush

Great choice for backing the youngest one... Obama knows what is the best

All I can say is OMG!

I had real hopes for Obama. Some have said his choice of Joe Biden is akin to Ronald Reagan picking George Bush Sr... a unifying factor for the party. I don't think this can even compare. Dick Cheney leaves the Vice Presidency the strongest and most active it has probably ever been in our history. Biden is old school Democrat. I can't see him taking office just to become a rubber stamp to Obama. No doubt, he made that very clear during the negotiations before accepting to be his running mate.

I really didn't know this guy, Joe Biden. After trolling through his voting record, looking at the legislation this bozo has proposed, and examining political commentaries on his track record, I can only come to one conclusion. Obama is either an idiot or a fraud. This Biden guy is about as nuts as Cheney! My GOD! What was Obama thinking?!!!! I WANT MY DNC DONATIONS BACK!

All I want is someone who has actually read the Constitution, knows what it means, and has faith that it works. Is that really too much to ask?!!! After exhaustively researching their proposals and checking out their voting records, I really thought I had selected the better candidate.

To stumble right out of the gate by making such a short-sighted and compromising choice, I seriously question Obama's ability to lead.
*yanks Obama '08 sticker from his back car window*

^^
I know Joe Biden's voting record hasn't been exactly what I had hoped it to be, but this seriously isn't a dealbreaker. Obama is still the one that makes all the choices, he is the only one that can invade another country, he is the only one that has any real power.

Whats Biden going to do? Resign if Obama disagrees with him. Or will he break a tie in congress? Vice presidents should never be deciding factors in an election even when the election is between a douche and turd sandwich....

Al Gore should be Vice President

I personally think that Obama is better than McCain, seems more peaceful for me. Yeah, I'm not from USA, but McCain supports Bush's way of stupid war against all countries getting out of US' control. About Al Gore... He's so funny with global warming... And surely he wants to be in charge just because he needs to destroy manbearpig

HAA HAA!

I LOVE SOUTHPARK!

Well, before Dick Cheney, I thought the same... now I am not so sure.

I'm so impressed by McCain. His VP comes out of the blue. Not a very big impressive political background, mother and married with 5 kids and ex mayor of a small town. But this his a symbol for Democrates, Palin stills be a women! But McCain is totally {censored}ed up in his thoughts cause he's flaming Obama to be young and haven't not much experience. The flamer is lame hahaha

Actually a governor is probably a lot better qualification and experience to become president... Its been decades since a senator has become president... His VP did not come out of the blue I had heard about her before...

That's better


Unless something should happen to Obama, then Biden would become the president (assuming Obama is elected). People seem to forget that quite often.

I didn't forget. I think I would have preferred Caroline Kennedy.

I was expecting this to be a Osama bin Laden joke/topic: Obama bin Biden.

Anyway it appeard to me the new guy seemed ok but after reading bofors post I realised I need to look into it a little more.

It doesn't seem to be what happened with Bush and Cheney, from what we are told.

Just lol!

I am glad to not be the only one who sees the extreme closeness of "Obama - Biden" to "Osama BinLaden"
Does this not just seem like blatant mind-manipulation? WTF?!?
Plus when you look at the anti-freedom nature of Biden's voting record, my God! He sucks!!
The USA has nothing good to look forward to in 2009, unless it's a new Freedom Revolution - i.e., kick out the corporate stooges and all the worthless politicians who don't give a {censored} about the US Constitution and the way the USA is supposed to work.
GW Bush - "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face! It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" - November 2005

It isn't a good decision. Obama is "the change" candidate if you believe his speeches. Yet he chooses someone from "the establishment" as his running mate.

Shouldn't he have picked a radically different candidate? If Obama wins, it will be like switching puppets from Bush to him if we were to take solely the VP nomination into account (read: not a good thing).

I don't agree. Biden knows how the senate works. Regardless of what a potential president says, they don't really have the ability to arbitrarily change laws, remove laws, etc. In order for them to accomplish anything, they need to build consensus. They need to be a leader and get people who would not normally work together, to work together. If one looks at Obama's history he has done this with flying colors, he is a pragmatist. And any organization that he has been a part of he has left off better than when he came to it. He has run a completely organized campaign, and had presented us with clear, logical ways in which he will try to implement change, while at the same time saying "change comes from you, I can only be a conduit". While McCain has been holding town hall meetings with 100 of his closest white old republican friends, Obama has been holding conferences and gatherings between prominent people (business sector, etc.) and trying to get everybody to form a cohesive plan that is good for everyone. He knows that as president he has to build consensus. John McCain is out there saying "when I am president, I will do _______ with my bare hands". This ignorant rubbish might pass for most of America, but if you or anyone else has any iota of intelligence, you will see right through McCain's lies/misunderstood views, he thinks that this is an empire, he will be the president (emperor), and that means everyone will automatically do what he says. Our country is following the inevitable course of a republic.

Our people are fat, ignorant, lazy, irresponsible, and weak. I would not be the least bit surprised that on the eve of a historical shift in our history, we made the complete wrong choice at the last moment, due to fear and ignorance. Whatever hell we put ourselves through, we did it to ourselves, and we deserve it.

I saw two entirely different speeches over the last two weeks. One was beautiful, coherent, and included all the American people in the discussion. The people in the audience looked like the people you see everyday on your way to work. The other speech was a 50 minute long ramble about nothing, empty lofty scary promises, and oversimplified branding of the democratic party meant to strike more fear and dislike and shame into anyone who even thinks about voting liberal/democratic. From these two speeches, McCain got a huge bump in popularity and support. If this bump is a real trend, then the American people are beyond repair, we deserve whatever we get. If we are undone, we did it to ourselves with our own ignorance.

True, but those of us with 2 (or more!) iotas of intelligence also see through Obama's lies/misunderstood views.

Why is he lying? Why are his views misunderstood?

Look, we have a choice of two people here to be our leader, who is MORE misunderstood? McCain or Obama?

It doesn't really matter that a president does everything they say that they are going to do. They have a lot less power than people think. The point is, if a leader can get all of us on the same page, and get all of us convinced that we need universal health care, a decent education, etc. WE WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN ON OUR OWN (but the president will get the credit). This is always the way it has been. The point is not holding politicians accountable for every single tiny thing they say at every tiny little moment (that's CNN, Fox news, and MSNBC), the point is their message and how many people believe it and carry it out in their everyday lives.

I have no fears about Obama, all this talk of him lying and misleading the American people on purpose is conspiracy at best.

I sincerely hope that if you don't like Obama that you will just not vote at all, rather than running to McCain who is a much bigger liar/Loser than Obama is.



Why is he lying? Why are his views misunderstood?

Look, we have a choice of two people here to be our leader, who is MORE misunderstood? McCain or Obama?

It doesn't really matter that a president does everything they say that they are going to do. They have a lot less power than people think. The point is, if a leader can get all of us on the same page, and get all of us convinced that we need universal health care, a decent education, etc. WE WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN ON OUR OWN (but the president will get the credit). This is always the way it has been. The point is not holding politicians accountable for every single tiny thing they say at every tiny little moment (that's CNN, Fox news, and MSNBC), the point is their message and how many people believe it and carry it out in their everyday lives.

I have no fears about Obama, all this talk of him lying and misleading the American people on purpose is conspiracy at best. He is being held to a much higher standard than McCain. Every time he makes the slightest mess up in what he says, the media pounces on him. McCain on the other hand has said some pretty scary things with no media response.

I sincerely hope that if you don't like Obama that you will just not vote at all, rather than running to McCain who is a much bigger liar/Loser than Obama is.

So few of us take any interest in seriously pondering economic theory or contemplate the complexities of political science, but we sure latch onto "Rock the Vote!" I'm tired of people treating the presidential election like we're selecting a prom king. Those silly slanderous email making the rounds make me want to vomit. And the saddest thing? The candidates know the idea of an informed voter is a complete and total myth and are forced to pander to the stupid and careless among us. We spend our time debating flag pins and who loves America more. The candidates can't talk tough reality or plot a course of any real change for fear of upsetting the status quo.... AMERICAN IDIOCRACY! They are the ones with the real power because of their sheer numbers and the fact their feeble brains can actually power their worthless hulks of human flesh to the voting booth where they it up for the rest of us.

The American way of life is shriveling on the vine. We are nearly bankrupt. There is no possible way... NONE... that we can afford to do business as usual. Sure we can pretend all is fine... for a little while longer... but no more than a decade or two. Then the house of cards we so carefully insist is sound fiscal policy will collapse and then what? Plunge the world into economic meltdown? We must balance our budget BEFORE the world stops wanting to fund our debt. We must rejuvenate our educational system, our transportation and energy infrastructure, our tax code, our trade laws, our immigration law, and our health care system to continue to compete favorably on an international scale. There is plenty of data. The world is awash with living examples of what works and what doesn't. Yet, we are too busy bickering among ourselves to actually speak of it rationally, devise a plan, and DO IT!

Maybe we'll have to wait until we've lost everything before we can muster the collective courage needed for change. That would be a shame. We are a nation of unparalleled resources. We should be leading the world in something besides credit risk and indiscriminate consumerism. Until then, Obama or McCain will be better than Bush. Neither has a sensible approach but maybe they can bide us the needed time to pull our head our of our collective ass.

Why don't you start with a list of the lies and misunderstood views of McCain, since you brought it up.

Said the Iraq war would be easy and short - Lie
Said Obama passed a bill to teach sex ed to kindergardeners - Lie (The bill was to protect children from sexual predators)
Thinks that getting our troops home "isnt that important, as long as they are alive" - Bastard
Said that when he went to Iraq he walked around without any body armor or security at all - Lie
Said that Americans are better off now than they were 8 years ago - Lie

Much Much more!

Heres some video evidence:
McCain's Context (Keith Olbermman) Part 1
McCain's Context (Keith Olbermman) Part 2

Runthrough of John McCain's ads and why they are lies

The Real McCain 2 (This one is the Most Popular and funny)

Um...If you want more I have it spring loaded and ready to go.

Your turn.

This is only a lie if he actually knew that it would be difficult and/or long. He may have known that, but I don't know how we'd know if he knew. Is he guilty of short-sightedness? Certainly. (see McCain-Feingold, another case of short-sightedness)
Also, the war against the Iraqi military WAS easy and short. One of the easiest, shortest wars in history. It's the post-war occupation that has been tough. See my previous sentences about short-sightedness.



The bill (which I have read) explicitly states that the bill authorizes sex education in kindergarten. This may be a mischaracterization, because the law also states that it must be age-appropriate. I think there is some justification for apprehension that Obama wants more sex-ed in younger grades, and I also think that safety from predators should not be a part of sex-ed. We have it in the school where I work, and it is not part of sex-ed; it's a part of health-ed.
Let me reiterate that I think this ad was a dishonest portrayal of what I believe to be the intent of the law.


Look, if you disagree with McCain's stance on the war in Iraq, and I can post all the places where I disagree with Obama, then we should start a different thread. But this isn't a lie, and it may not even be a misunderstood view. Anyway, he's referring here to our military presence in Japan, South Korea, and Germany (Also, our long-time presence in the Philippines comes to mind.) Olberman was mischaracterizing him again. Even with the context, it's clear that McCain doesn't want people shooting themselves to avoid going to Iraq for another 60 years or whatever. Have you ever heard of someone shooting themselves to avoid getting sent to Germany? Wanting a military presence in Iraq similar to the presence we now have in Germany, Japan, and South Korea is not an evil thing.



Well, if he gets as much wiggle-room as Obama did in the defense of the LIES email, then if McCain walked around outside for 45 seconds without body armor or personal guards, then he didn't lie any more than Obama did when he said his dad was a goatherd.



The lie here is that he said we were, then he said we weren't, then he said we were, and so on.
I am most certainly better off now than I was 8 years ago. If you are from the USA, then you'll have to explain how you aren't.

I do worry that my son will grow up to be cannon fodder (I shared these concerns with my mother, who had 3 of her sons during Vietnam, and she said she thought the same thing), but I don't believe that Obama will prevent war or destruction on Earth any better than any other president has. This is not a change that has happened over the last 8 years, necessarily, because my mother had these same fears over 40 years ago.

Now, for Obama's lies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ehRrX7c41U...feature=related

Here's another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H64yKJhB528

Iran is no threat. Or is it???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ-WZut0iYM...id=event_975451

McCain wants another 100 years of war in Iraq!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHnVZpA69j0

Finally, thank you for taking this seriously. When you first posted your whole "iota of intelligence" comment, I thought you were just doing the standard "Your candidate/my candidate" game. Thank you for actually thinking about this! And for making me think too.

I fail to see the lie here.


Yes, he did some back stepping here, but much of this can be tossed up to personal reflection post-interview and pre-speech. In all cases, he did consistently voice his disagreement with the reverend's statements. An unfortunate situation to be in.


Misrepresentation of his words by combining clips. Individually, I see no real problem.
1) "Cuba, Venezuela: Don't pose a threat" - a true statement.
2) "If Iran ever tried to pose a serious threat to us, they wouldn't stand a chance" - a true statement. We could, conceivably, blow them off the map.
3) "Iran is a grave threat" - True. they are threat to mid-east peace, and a growing potential threat to us. However, they haven't directly threatened us, yet.. and if they did, see 2).



Yes. A misrepresentation of McCain's statement. It was sad to see when Obama did this.

So Descalzo... are you conservative or libertarian?


Guru

Don't know. I wonder that myself quite often.