Psystar has done it again, this time releasing 3 more Open Computers that are compatible with Mac OS X; 2 of them being servers and one being a more expensive "Pro" version of the basic Open Computer. Here is a list of the new computers with basic specs:

OpenPro Computer-$999, €670, £507
-Ubuntu Linux 8.04 included
-No keyboard, mouse, or monitor included
-3.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Processor
-2GB of DDR2 800 memory
-nVidia GeForce 8600GT with 512MB of RAM
-20x DVD+/-RW SATA drive
-Gigabit Ethernet
-8 rear USB Ports
-7 channel Integrated Audio SPDIF and Optical Output

OpenServ 1100-$1599, €1025, £810
-CentOS 5.1 Linux preinstalled
-No monitor mouse or keyboard included
-Intel Xeon E5420 Harpertown 2.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
-4GB of fully-buffered DDR2 667 RAM
-1 750GB 7200RPM SATA drive
-Dual Gigabit LAN
-Integrated Graphics
-Up to 4 Hard Drives

OpenServ 2400-$1999, €1280, €1015
-CentOS 5.1 Linux preinstalled
-No monitor mouse or keyboard included
-Intel Xeon E5420 Harpertown 2.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
-4GB of fully-buffered DDR2 667 RAM
1 750GB 7200RPM SATA drive
-Dual Gigabit LAN
-Integrated Graphics
-Up to 6 Hard Drives

As you can plainly see, the Psystar OpenPro Computer has more power in most areas than the Mac Pro, and it is a full $1500 cheaper. If you want to get Mac OS X Leopard pre-installed on any of their computers, it will cost you $155; $25 more than the retail version.


Psystar's OpenPro Computer

Psystar

Looks like they are at it again, netkas is gunna be pissed. unless they make the switch to EFiX for all of their bootloading / whatever the hell it emulates, fakes or breaks.


Dr. D

I said Psystar was going to be bad for our community, and by and large I was wrong. But... can somebody explain to me why Apple lets this go on without legal action?

I know that they get a bump out of our project, but why let anybody commercialize it? They fought clones once before.
I know that they might have a hard time enforcing their licensing agreement, but why not bluff and tie them up in court so long they fold? As if they don't have the muscle to do so.

I guess the biggest thing that makes me sad about Psystar is that they don't prominently display all the credit for the works that run their machines, and they don't contribute back to the community. I know they have a credit page, but does the person making the purchase go through a required viewing of these credits? And if Psystar really cared about the community they are commercializing then they would pay some people to write drivers to help us. They list insanelymac as a support location, which they don't pay for. Their overhead is relatively small compared to what it otherwise should be, why don't they share the love?

theStevo

P.S. Anybody from Psystar... X3000 GPU and 8256X Ethernet are my votes.

Rather have my mac pro

For the only post I've made since my membership, I'll quote nobody but frankly said my own personnal opinion.

I'm totaly off of these guys try to makes some thousands of bucks in the back of a community. Yes, we are here to listen and learn, deep our knowledge. Some guys here are my idols like Netkas, Taruga, Macgirl, Detosx . They works a lot hours and hours, days after days to concretise what is condisered impossible before two and three years.

EFI, CPU, dsmos, kernel (Team of Hackintosh, Mach), CPU, Audio, Darwin bootloader; both of these packages and kext include are been alive for years by devotion and love of Mac. Years past and OSx86 growed up very fast. Becoming a legend by the way of thinking "Mac is now possible on Intel based CPU" after the PPC episode and the move at Intel for his architecture.

The works I try to make relief wasn't possible if we weren't united!

And for make a black spot on our OSx86 community, these dudes woke up in the morning and says: "Hey, some geeks broke the secrets and the code of Mac OS X by Apple. They're called OSx86! A guy (Netkas) create the EFI bootload emulation!! Why we don't use his own stuff and the releases to build PC and modify home brew the bootdisk and the cash will rain in flood!" Businesses man are like that, where is the money and making easier and faster...

What I don't understand, they are breaking literaly the laws. I'm not a lawyer or a judge but look those cracks in the case of Pystar.
1- They use the stuff (distros of OSx86) for making money in term of large commercial;
2- Pystar broke the laws in sight of including basicly whatever distros of Linux e.g. Kubuntu. GNU, GPL are explicited and very critical on distribute for commercial use is totally ban. Whatever, morally I wouldn't use Linux on purpose uses cause' it's free and don't spit and fat your wallet with...
3- Where is Apple?!?!? They breaks the EULA of Apple and it's not fair. Are they hide behind a wall because they're shy to move and making the first page on the newspapers. Or it's the fact those computers create a future group of people who needs in future to buy a Mac because they love the Mac Way!?

Anyway, God only knows.
Bless all the guys working for making OS X possible and alive far from here.

These computers are all very well and nice, but until/unless they switch to EFI-X, the computers strip all the value from what makes Macs great - the amount of time they are relevant. For those who can't install OSx86 by themselves, this is a brick wall. There is no upgradeability. You get 10.5.1, that's what you've got (or whatever they ship it with, maybe it's 10.5.3 by now). The first Firewire iMac G3s supported - officially - Mac OS 8.6 to 10.4.11 (I've read about one success story for 10.5 on a G3 600, but frankly I'm a bit suspicious about the claim as it looks like the guy just used a shapeshifter theme). That's a timespan of about 8-9 years. (I'm not even going to mention XPostFacto or LeopardAssist, although I'm sure they work great, but these would potentially mean that some of the older computers have insane, unheard-of lifespans - I think the Beige G3 will even take up to 10.4, giving it a lifespan of 11 years. Now tell me, will your '96 PC run Vista? As a reminder, the 1995 HP Pavilion 5030 came with a 75 MHz Pentium, 8 MB of RAM, and an 850 MB hard drive. Good luck getting Windows 98 on that.) So, for the potential target audience, it seems to me that it would be better to just be happy with your own OSx86, or wait for EFI-X and use the retail DVD. As it's crashed and burned for me twice, I think the latter is the way to go for me.

Oh, and to answer your questions, Frank.
a) I believe they have their own OSx86 distro, which they made using the retail DVD (which they ship with the Open Computer), which isn't illegal as they're transferring the license to you.
In a way, yes. But they aren't charging you anything for Ubuntu. Plus, Dell has Ubuntu PC's.
c) It breaks the EULA, but that just voids the warranty. Apple doesn't have legal recourse because it's not illegal. Plus, you know that these people are just future, if not current, Mac customers.

Actually there is upgradeablility on the psystar open computers. They support all the necessary updates that Apple releases and checks to be sure it works with the computers they sell. See here for a list of updates they provide.

As for using an iMac G3 with firewire support being able to run up to OS X 10.4.11 and comparing it against a 1995 PC but then asking can a 1996 PC run vista? I remind you that the iMac G3 with firewire support was first released in 1999 so that is hardly fair considering there is a difference of 4 years. The modern PC at that time was around 600-750 MHz. Now if you're gonna say that can't run vista, I point out that your G3 can't run Leopard either. But if we compare it against the last consumer operating system released by apple and microsoft before the current ones, OS X 10.4.11 by apple and windows xp by microsoft, both can be run by each of their computer counter parts. But who would possibly want to run windows 95/98 now or OS 8/9? Unless you have nostalgic reasons, there's no real need to.

As for it crashing and burning, mainly it is problems with driver support that you are experiencing. I went through the same thing and finally got it installed and working for me. I suggest you check out the hardware list here on how other people got it installed.

Off the record @ Numberzz: you consistently misspelled Psystar as Pystar (including in the title).

What's the difference between the OpenServ 1100 and the OpenServ 2400 besides 1 being 1U and the other being 2U (hence being able to sport 6 HDD's) and having a 600W redundant PSU? Their $400 price difference, and ...? Otherwise that's a lot of money for little added value...

wow this is really {censored} for community!!!

but i am really interessted why apple apple allow this?!

Do they send you a modded disk or is it on the hard drive only with a legit leopard disk. I'm continuing the search for a MAC OS on my PCs but so far kalyway's disc never gets past essentials on any computer with any drive which is really weird. Does anyone know if psystar has OSX running stable?

in business point it is opportunity in community point it is a danger... they are charging about 25-50$ for the donkey work of installing and getting it to work for people that are not able for whatsoever reasons...

netkas will definitely be pissed but he is doing the same thing in a different way (one behind doors by donations, and i believe with efix it will be commercial as well but avoiding dmcs, one in open doors in commercial ways and fighting against dmcs which we soon to see a fight if apple decides to...)

the possible outcome of a possible apple/psystar case will be critical for apple and for the community and the rest of hackers/and companies who work on the back of hackers and community...

complaining will not help anyone... just get the facts straights...

psystar started out as a parasite/mistakes by pointing out IM as their support place but now fixed that out and supply their own support... doing a service job is not wrong either... many people did it for iphone unlock/jailbreaking as well... some of you may know already what happened to geohot with dev team... and how they kick him of the team, and later some begged his help... most of the issues in the community right now are usually related FAME and MONEY (which some of you may disagree, but i would suggest looking deep inside the problems and how/what people fighting against and for and complaining about... you will see clearly...) this fame and money issue one day may destroy the community from the heart...

my 2.5 cents...

Dude, I'm slightly high and your avatar freaked me out like hell. That's awesome.

Also, I don't think this is a bad thing, as long as Apple's still not after them.

if you poked your monitor once or twice? it means my avatar served its purpose but off-topic anyway

I too have often wondered why Apple has not challenged both this community and Psystar by issuing cease and desist notices. However, think through the two possible outcomes of Apple either winning or losing such an order in court, and then it becomes clearer why might Apple prefer to sit on their hands.

Let's say Apple wins, shutting down Psystar, therby setting a precedent and showing that any proprietary software company can insist that their operating system must only be run on their own approved hardware. Then what? Microsoft, who are currently hand tied by monopoly abuse charges, could cite Apple as setting precedent, and then Microsoft would be able to insist that Windows should not be allowed to run on Apple hardware or any other platform engine they don't approve of. That would be a disaster for Apple...

Of course, if Apple loses then anyone can open up a clone service running OS X, and again Apple loses. So overall the best tactic for them is to do nothing and see how serious the perceived threat becomes before taking any action.

TonyMo

how bout this! maybe apple is heading in this direction knowing that sites like this exsist and will keep popping up. don't know if any of you have read the snow leopard posts but it supports some of the newer nvidia g-force cards. looks to me like apple is opening itself to what this comunity has to offer

Apple's hardware and software are so expensive. Only a fraction of the world's population owns or even know about Apple Computers. So the only way to reach out to those who think a computer is the display monitor sitting on a desk, is through the back door hence maintaining their regular customers.
I believe this is nothing but Apple's work.

any bad or good publicity is a good publicity so I wish we stopped posting about them.

What's wrong with having a little competition for Apple?

Absolutely correct.


FWIW, I do own a Psy****.

Worth it?

A qualified yes, as:

1) I had to replace the PSU with one which could cope with utility brown-out conditions here in California, (Psy****'s supplied PSU will force a power-on reset whenever the line voltage falls below 115 volts, plus it's rated only 300 Watts, compared to the 400 Watts minimum specified by the motherboard manufacturer),

2) I had to develop boot hard disk backup and cloning procedures (Psy**** provides no backup procedures, and simply running CCC or SD! against the Psy**** boot hard disk results in an unbootable clone), and

3) I had to provide my own sound patch (the ALC662 codec is not well supported by the community at large, but, in sharp contrast, it has zero support from Psy****).

My second Hackintosh is under consruction as I write this, and it is a Shuttle G31-based 'tosh.

I am still largely G4-based, what with four dual 1.0 GHz Quicksilver/Digital Audios, and additonal Digital Audios and Gigabit Ethernets, and one 1.5 GHz G4 Mini in-house.

For me, the Psy**** was a low-cost experiment in Intel-based Mac-puting.

And, a wake-up call, too, as the XBench for my Psy**** Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz is 2.5 times the XBench for my dual 1.0 GHz G4s.

Next stop: a Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.6 Ghz Shuttle, with no Psy**** content at all.

Yeah, Psystar news should stop being on our front page, and maybe even do an auto-censor for Psystar just like words like {censored}, {censored} and pussy!

Better watch it, the last word you said wasn't censored since it can be used in the context of snow leopard should have been called wet pussy

But why would you want to support any kind of censorship? If they're selling bad products, say it. But if you had a good experience with them, say it too. Or is that the real reason why you want them censored? Because it makes Apple look bad and the mac faithful can't stand that happening.

I just meant so that they wouldn't show up in search results. They are probably getting quite a bit of site traffic/free advertisement from sites like this and it seems like we are indirectly supporting their business.

Where is the OpenBook LOL

i can get you u one if you want an OpenBook so bad?

Some laptops are pretty damn close to Mac's. Mine is pretty much a MacBook, minus wireless and audio, and it cost $500, so an OpenBook should be soon on its way from somewhere.

only if the internal display issue doesnt exists on that particual model/book... otherwise it will have trouble...

Hell yeah! Listen to radio and the song Rockstar of Nicnelback has been censored. These words: "Drug, speed, ass, pills"... Anyway, that's let me cold. But is politicly correct to say fu*k on a NBC sitcom or a naked women in center of the big auditory of the evening.

I voted to censore Psytar for Psysh*t lolll!

Lol, I only wanted to censor the WORD psystar, or have it auto-replaced with Ratsysp (backwards) so they don't get free publicity for appearing in our search results.

F**k those guys. This site, all the distro releases from Kalyway and all the ridiculously smart individuals who made it possible for us to run OSX on our own builds deserve the credit and the fame. I built my machine from the ground up based on reccomendations and the advice of all the people on here. I tried to install OSX probably 10 times with a few different releases before it worked. You know what? That was half of the fun. I realize it can be frustrating to try and install OSX without any success but, if you're in the market for a new pc, you can build the same thing cheaper ordering off of new egg.

I guess my point is that this is an underground crew of sorts. And to see some jagoffs making money off of the hard work of some true geniuses and an awesome community that never charged anything for their time and effort is f**king wack. Got it?

Totally agree, you nailed it.

The problem is the media - especially engadget is treating psystar as the 2nd coming of computer manufacturers.

ignore them, they go away

Psy**** is holding out until it receives a warrant from the IRS.

Hypothetical scenario:

Psy**** executive: "Show you our OpenBooks? Do you have a warrant?"

Federal officer: "It's right here, for the 'arrest' of OpenBooks 1 through 100, inclusive. I'll bet you didn't know that personal property can be 'arrested', well it can be. You have been served, now produce your 'Books or be arrested yourself on a charge of 'obstruction'!"

Psy**** executive: "'Books? 'Books? We don't have no steenkin' 'Books!".

Maybe off topic. But has anyone tested if the updates that Psystar releases is working on for example kalyway 10.5.2 ?

Psystar is a really bold and good company for doing what no other company has done. Hell I might even start making and selling these PC's!

Michael Dell started Dell Computer out of his college dorm room, making PC clones.

He became a multi-billionaire.

While I don't think anyone can become a multi-billionaire making Mac clones, you might make a few bucks before Apple adopts Draconican countermeasures.


Word to the wise ...

Psy**** requests that all Software Updates be obtained from its site.

To that end, Software Update was actually disabled in the Psy****-supplied version of 10.5.2.

But, with the availability and application of Psy****'s 10.5.3 Update, Software Update was enabled, and I have successfully downloaded and installed several application Updates from Apple's site, using Software Update.

Still, it is dangerous to use Software Update to download and install system updates.

what do you mean around the same as the mac pro ? the mac pro has an 8 core 2.8ghz cpu. this thing has a dual core 3ghz cpu. thats not even the same league. The mac pro cpu is just a lot faster.

Nutral it is true that the mac pro has a faster processor, but guess what.
The psystar computer would probably be faster with applications that are single core which is a huge amount. quad cores are really meant for the future and 8 cores are a waste. I can see someone buying a quad core because in 2 years it will probably be more expected with more applications using 4, but 8 is silly.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-cha...3%2C1218%2C1309
Sorry for the huge url but compare a quad core 2.6ghz and a E8400. E8400 owns it. If you're doing final cut pro and intense video rendering a quad core is probably a good idea. I'm not sure if final cut pro efficiently uses all 8 cores but I could be wrong.
I configured the specs I would want and here are the results:
3249 Mac pro
ONE quad core xeon @ 2.8 ghz
4gb of ram
1TB Hard drive
8800GT 512mb
Rest standard
PSYSTAR:
one 3hz dual core
4gb ram
1TB hard drive
8800GT 512mb
leopard( obviously )
Price 1,549
If you want the quad core @2.6ghz it is 1850 and a small tweak ( you wouldn't even have to change voltages ) and it's up to 2.8ghz same as mac. The difference is 1400. Psystar is actually a pretty damn good deal and I'm happy to finally see a manufacturer that doesn't overcharge too much on components. The difference is 1400, for what? The case? Sorry I can't be bothered to spend that much for a shiny apple logo. With 1400 you could get a legit macbook as well.: ( configure the middle one, +100 hard drive. Everything else is the same. Sneaky apple lol.)
* 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 2GB memory
* 250GB hard drive1
* Double-layer SuperDrive
EDIT: I think that more credit should be given to OSX86 but at the same time maybe it is better. That way if they get shut down OSX86 won't be considered "partners in crime" I thank kalyway so much for mac osx. I can't update to 10.5.3 but the fact that it runs and is stable is amazing to me.

Might I remind you that the cpu the mac pro has is available from anyone. It is not the exclusivity of Apple. Hackintosh just proves that Apple uses commodity parts like any other PC maker out there. So in reality, those who buy Apple are simply buying them because there is no legal alternatives to buying a mac from someone else. I sure hope psystar changes all that.

It's possible that Psystar are somehow able to hide behind some legal loophole, for the time being. I'm no expert but as often with these kind of grey zones, the EULA might not even be legally enforceable according to public/penal law but only to private lawsuits. If this was truly and blatantly illegal it would be no big effort to just report these guys with the police or a prosecutor, just like any cheap copycat. Reality must be looking different though.

We don't know of course what Apple is really doing right now. Perhaps they're investigating on their side and paving a concrete way to go after 'Psycho star' making sure to get a sure chance of winning a lawsuit. Those things take time and cost money. It wouldn't surprise me if in the near future we'll read something like 'Psystar busted by Apple'.

The psystar guys are either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid in the sense of feeling 'invincible'.

Then on the other hand, their machines are a bit like a Lada with a Ferrari engine. Not dissing Lada but... errr...

Have you seen their Pro and Gamer offerings? I'd buy one even if I didn't want to install OS X on it, and the value for money seems very good. I mean, the price is so good that it is hardly worth building your own.

You're probably right, but I don't see where that makes them really differenciate themselves from other local manufacturers that build power houses for quite cheap, with Linux pre-installed that is. (There are quite a few in my area at least.)

To be realistic, psystar's only real stunt is to have offered a cheap Mac clone. Anyway, the thing I don't like about this is that they sell somebody else's hard work (netkas et al) for good money without any (known) compensation. not even a respectable mention. They do as if it's their idea and development. I have a serious problem with people like that. Call them my natural enemies

You're joking, right? I could build that pro machine for for about $600 and it would have better hardware of known quality. The gaming machine easily for around a $1000 minus the OS.

$189.99 cpu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115037

$59.99 GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128078

$85.99 XFX PVT84JYAJG GeForce 8600 GT 512MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814150247

$29.99 LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16827106073

$49.99 Microsoft 9VV-00001 Black 7 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16826105016

$21.99 Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 B2L-00047 Black 105 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16823109156

$49.99 ASUS TM-982(Vento) Black Steel MicroATX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811173029

$59.99 Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB (2 x 1GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820148076

547.92
And I give you a mouse and keyboard.
I didn't add shipping but thats not that much

Don't forget tax

There is no tax that i would pay?
Don't think there is any.

I'd definitely build one myself before buying from them. That motherboard is pretty crappy and so is the case/power supply. Is that what their "Pro" model is constructed from?

But I'd pay in Euro

But I am beginning to believe that you are right, guys, it is better to build it yourself.

No the parts are from newegg and i don't know what else they used.
the motherboard is the same one.

I know the hardware is available to anyone. but they aren't too cheap. Becouse of the server Xeon type cpu (times 2) and the FB-DIMM memory (error correcting). This cpu is around 600 euro's a piece. And with a expensive motherboard with 2 sockets. Although it is still overpriced it isnt that extreme. If you would buy a mac pro you should use it for cpu heavy applications like, 3ds max, c4d, autocad, maybe photoshop, After effects/premiere, Final cut pro etc.

True. It's probably not cost-effective to build an exact duplicate of a Mac Pro when you have to factor in a dual-socket motherboard, two quad-core Xeons, special ram, etc, but nobody needs 8 cores in a computer now anyway. You can build your own Hack Pro with a quad core CPU for a third of the price.

Anyone else notice that hardware is moving faster than software? I just bought an 8800GT which can run every game on high ( except crysis ) on full settings 1680x1050 for 130 dollars and it came with company of heroes and a mid-range cooler. Before you would have had to spend at least 200+ to get anywhere near that result.