http://www.rense.com/general82/gut.htm

Congress is getting ready to give AT&T & Bush more wiretapping power.

I don't see anything about giving more power, but I really don't think the telecoms should get retroactive immunity. The "we thought it was legal" argument shouldn't work. Ignorance of the law does not protect you from having to abide by it.

100% agreement here. I don't get how they are breaking a law, everybody knows they are breaking the law, including the government, but for some reason, lets just let them go because they spy on us, for the president? No...this doesn't make any sense at all, this looks like good ol' fashioned corruption to me.

Thats true. They are nothing but crooks anyway. They have been doing this for 30 years or more. Its just public now. They say "Yeah, we spy on you illegally, and we've been doing it for a while."

but if the president does it, it's not illegal. right?

*slaps dopeyo*

Bad Dopeyo. Wrong answer.



It supposed to work like this...

The Executive Branch "executes" the law as passed by the Legislative Branch. If there are any questions, the law is interpreted by the Judicial Branch. In theory, this would provide a check and balance of power. Unfortunately there is more than one definition for the word "execute" and the Bush Administration decided on:

[verb] carry out a sentence of death; kill as a political act

instead of:

[verb] perform an activity or maneuver requiring care or skill; carry out or put into effect an order

Real question (not rhetorical):
Can anyone point me to a real incident in the last few years where someone has been harmed (other than a terrorist) or been truly exploited on by them being wire-tapped?

Under the Constitution, the president has ONE power, and ONE power alone. To veto, or not veto, acts, or laws passed by congress. Other than that, congress, and the supreme court hold the checks and balances of power. Congress passes the law, it filters through the president. If the people don't like it, they can take it to the supreme court, and have it eliminated.

Anything other than that, is an impeachable offense. If Bush was ever convicted of his crimes, he could serve up to 36 (so far) life sentences. If you want to speculate, he could serve 300 or more. In an ideal situation, in which the law was followed, he holds almost no power, other than what I mentioned above.

Somewhere down the line, that process became totally {censored}ed. Most of it started to change with Lincoln. Since during which, Lincoln was given the power to declare martial law and create a union police state. Thats why the south fought back during the invasion. At that point, the constituion was raped, and it has carried the scar ever since 1860.

@ jonnydesewage:
HOW CAN YOU MAKE A STATEMENT WHICH IS ENTIRELY UNTRUE AND THEN WHEN SHOWN THAT YOU ARE WRONG, CONTINUE ACCUSING THEM ANYWAY??!!

NOT ONLY ARE YOU AN IDIOT YOUR'E ALSO A DUMBASS!!??(that 70's show)

"the major change is that a federal district court, not the secret FISA court itself, would make an assessment about whether to provide retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies being sued for their alleged role in the Bush administration's warrantless surveillance program."

I don't think Bush is the only one that has committed "crimes"

Unfortunately, he's not. The whole system is seizing up just as the Founding Fathers said it would. While I don't necessarily agree with the extent or direction of many of Jon's interpretations, he brings up some good food for thought.

The president knows that. But why deal with the hassles imposed by the rule of law and a constitution when you have signing statements just begging to be used?

Exactly. Which is why, I believe we need to elect people into congress to reinstate the constitution, and reclaim our government.

People should stop worrying about petty issues, such as "health care" and other crap that doens't matter. Thats just something that a group of people "want". Its time to go back to the basics, and if that fails, then it will lead to an uprising, and I am sure that is what we will be facing soon, if not a civil war.

Yes cause keeping ourselves alive has no value!

Uprising, civil war?

I agree with the whole reclaim our government and fully implement the constitution but what basics are you referring to? Our broken healthcare system is costing us billions every year. I'm not just talking about those on medicaid, medicare, and other programs funded by federal and state taxes either... who do you think foots the bill for those who don't or can't pay? The rest of us by way of sky rocketing medical costs, higher insurance premiums and co-pays, and higher taxes. Did you know recent studies show that France's universal health care system costs almost half of what Americans pay AND they have far superior care? No, I'm not kidding. The US ranked dang near bottom of industrialized nations in terms of quality of care yet still rank one of the highest in cost. WTF? I'm not advocating socialized medicine here... I'm just saying even for a healthy twenty something, healthcare reform should still be a critical issue to you. YOU'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT! And perhaps more importantly, you'll need to use it someday!

Are there other things that also need addressing? Well, sure. that goes without saying. With the level of effective governance emanating from Washington DC these days, I seriously doubt most Americans would notice anything different should it suddenly vanish. In fact, the country might benefit.

All that said, I'm not too sure I would be thrilled with your brand of constitutionalism either. You seem to be in a constant state of outrage and express some violent and intolerant views. You seem very distrustful and show very little compassion and empathy for others.

Health care has been around for a little over 30 years out of our 1 million year history. There is no need for it. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

Ahem. You mean our 200,000 year history (to our best knowledge). Also, healthcare has been around a lot longer than 30 years. Traditionally (in Europe) it was churches and religious organizations which picked up the slack for medical care, opening free (or low cost) hospitals which relied on donations to stay afloat (I would have thought you would have known this Jon, seeing as you talk about history often.) The need for healthcare didn't just rise up out of nowhere because people wanted it. It rose up because a support mechanism that used to be in place was no longer in place, and medicine became capitalistic and for profit (in the US). In fact there's a tape recording of Richard Nixon talking with Kaiser in which Nixon says that not covering people and charging them money for it is a good thing. The next day he gave a big speech declaring that he wanted all Americans to have the best health care in the world. Nixon's real vision of health care became a reality. Medicine in the US can only be had for a premium price. The public outcry for health care is a reaction to this cruel way of thinking.

There is no need for it?! Are you kidding me? Health care keeps cities clean, people from spreading disease, etc.

You might be thinking about a disease care system. But what I am talking about is a HEALTH care system. Things such as sewage and clean water, I would lump into health care. If we keep people healthy, the medical costs will go down because people wont wait to get checked out, they will be seen for free and treated early, vastly reducing costs. We would simply rather put our money into social security (checks for old people), and the military. We could be doing so much more, we simply choose not to.

Heck, if you want to die before the age of 40, feel free.