I just saw this: http://ipower.ning.com/netneutrality

Is it possible? The Internet as a purely commercial playground?

It will be if something isn't done.

I'll be meeting the Scottish First Minister at some point next month, I'll metion this to him

Scary, and quite believable. If the internet keeps going the way it is now, multinationals, governments and so on are soon going to lose their grip on people's minds, and they can't let it happen.
This could turn into a real war.

Well, I guess shortsighted ISP's will maybe agree to this. But they dont realize the value of the internet and why people want it, and the smaller which is not going this route will quickly become popular. Bad ideas tend to fail...

Another point is... google, yahoo etc depend on smaller context providers for their searchengines. And smaller businesses and organizations will jump off internet if there are no one able to look at their sites.

yeah Marvin, because the Scottish First Minister has power

Guess then all the hackers will hack it.....

I don't think hackers will want to be rendered unable to hack...

It is possible, and unless we do something, it will become a reality. These companies are evil (Money as their only motivation, without any regard for the common good). They will do whatever it takes to force you to buy their product. They will shove it down your throat any way they can. The only thing that can force their hand is us. We must march, complain, be the squeaky wheel so to speak. We should keep the internet free and open. Commercial entities can keep their grubby, greedy hands off of it.Tell as many people about this danger to our freedom as quickly as you can. The more that people know about this, the less likely it will come to pass.That's the thing though, in many towns and cities across the US there is only one ISP, and it is usually one of the big ones. In my town there is only comcast or dialup. Or fibre if you have a business. I might bite the bullet and pay the extra $100 (for fibre, not one of these piece of $hit ISP's) a month though if this future comes to pass.Sure, hackers might be able to hack it, but how would they get their instructions on how to hack out to the people? The internet? Bittorrent? Neither of these will be a possibility unless it can be posted on these "pre-approved" sites that won't even allow you to post your material. This will effectively kill the internet, with or without hackers.

That's exactly true, but he's better than no one...

This would be stupid. Millions of Web Developers out of jobs. Plus, This would be a charm for hackers. Imagine the amount of attacks on the websites servers.

As a web developer, this cannot be true. I think they are just trying to scare you.

Plus, Think what this would do to Apple, Microsoft? HP, Toshiba, etc. Small computer stores. All would be killed off to the fact that the internet is what makes us buy these products. I mean, you dont go buy a macbook pro and not use the internet on it? You don't get a nice 4gb memory, 1tb, Intel Quad core PC and just use it as a 'word processor'? Because effectively that would be all it would be good for, that and presentations.

I think that this story is quite not true. These companies may be greedy, but not even the biggest greediest CEO could decide to do something like this. Think about all the people campaigning and attacking the companies...

It's just something I wouldn't be able to believe.

- J.

I had the same thing in mind, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they'll try and do it.




I'll write to my MP.

Apple, and Microsoft and all the mainstream sites will be in even the most basic internet package. People will at first not notice a difference, it will happen under people's noses gradually without them quite noticing until the internet is gone without anybody knowing it.

Small sites are the ones at stake here. You will always be able to go to google, microsoft, apple, ebay, etc etc. But its the small, independent, free thinking sites (like this one) which will disappear. All the big players will get their money and will wipe the small guys off the map as well. Seems to me theres plenty of motivation for all of them to go down this road.

The date might not be an absolute, but don't kid yourself, the battle for the Internet is on.

Although I think a site restricted plan wouldn't work and too many people would stop using the internet, I could see them trying a push for a tiered level program. (Of course to implement such a system would require co-operation by more than just service providers.)

Doesn't Al Gore have a say into what they do to his internet anyways?

Nah - I doubt very much that this kind of thing could ever happen. The internet only exists because billions of people connect their computers together on one big network of networks. If this were to happen, then the ISP's immediately start blocking us from accessing certain networks, and the whole system would just die. What use would Google be when I can only search 100 websites?


In fact, the more I think about it, the less I think it could ever happen. Think - how would new websites be created? You'd have to start up your own server, and then sell your IP address / domain (if you have access to a site where you can register them!) to the ISP's, who in return will stick two fingers up at you because no one cares about your site.
Everyone would now need new email addresses because 3/4 of everyones email hosts wont be able to be accessed without subscription, and you'll have to pay money to be able to send email to someone on a different domain. Could you imagine going back to the postal service when you want to get in contact with your family members on the other side of the world?

Websites which don't have enough subscriptions will start dying off, and eventually the whole concept of what the internet is about is lost.

I would bet one million pounds (if I had it) that this extremely far-fetched idea won't become a reality.

P.s. That girls cleavage is one way to get us men listening to what they're saying

I was kidding Marvin (our International cousins may not see how!), it's important to raise these things with the people in power, impress upon him our concerns - you never know where it will lead.

This thing is certainly a scary thought.

But all I know is the more I got through the video the more the urge grew to shout at my computer to tell that idiot to stop stealing all the limelight and let his buddies (who I thought were much much better than him) say something.

that should be moved to laugh.. i mean..

internet is not a "thing". internet is a decentralized network of million of networks connected each other.

what could happen is that multinationals will take control of domain name services somehow for commercial purposes <---- utopia, it will never happen
or that all ip ranges will be used because of the stupid marketing of service providers selling several ips to costumers w/out reason <---- that will happen sometime in the future, but not for now

if that will ever happen, someone will find another way to reach servers around the world.

internet cannot collapse

However, you can't connect to the internet without a tube ( ) going via your ISP. This means that the majority of people, who aren't going to look for other ISPs, or don't care that they can't access smaller sites aren't going to do anything.

well, right. but it's not a big deal for isps to block content, noone will ever use their internet service and they will get a money loss

isps will never limit internet access, it's stupid

talking about dns or domain services is another story

But if Joe Public only wants to use the CNN site or Yahoo, is he going to complain?




Which is why the phrase "the internet as we know it" has been used many times

If this goes down, I predict multiple internets. Each with its own rules. Including an internet or open-source, free material. As well as an internet for pirated content, etc.

Whatever the case may be, one thing will happen for certain. All of this will be done just gradually enough for people to not get all pissed off and march about it, freedoms will be taken away crumbs at a time, until one day we will wake up and go "wait a minute, I used to be able to do more for less".

These companies, these rich, greedy people move differently than they used to. They move gradually now, not quickly. They move ever so gradually as to not agitate us out of our deep slumber, they do 99% of what will wake us up, but they don't quite push that 1% that will get us angry. We are instead, only annoyed. Angry people fix their problems (or perceive themselves to fix their problems), annoyed people talk and maybe yell, but then ultimately they sit down, and take it in the ass.

It is imperative for the future of our civilization that the internet remains free and open. That ISP's cant decide what we can and cannot see. That the flow of information can come freely (good and bad). That the truth is held above all else. This will give us a realistic view of our problems (even if many people can't handle it). This will lead to the perception of instability but in reality it will help us fix the problems that are REAL.

Watching Cable news, or network news, one thing is for sure, its not the truth. It's either not the complete picture, or strait propaganda. The internet by its very nature discourages such behavior from ever taking place, because EVERYBODY can have a say. With a complete picture, we find the truth, however complex it may be.

Don't accept any concession or loss to what you have now when it comes to the internet. It is a gift for the world (from ourselves), we must never take it for granted.

Killbot, it's the internet..... not Shangri-La. The whole world wouldn't end if we lost it. SOmething would replace it. Now I seriously don't WANT it to go.

YES IT WOULD!!!

The internet is the natural progression of our world. It arose from a need to share information quickly and freely. It makes our world more global. It gives us a window into the way other people think, even if we completely disagree with them. In our world of nuclear weapons, overpopulation, secret government activities, banks, dictators, etc. The internet offers transparency, it offers an ultimate check and balance on humanity. Restricting it in any way restricts the very spirit of it. Restricting it in any way would only make the window dirty and hard to see through.

The internet saves us from ourselves.

Many people might think I am over exaggerating, but I speak the truth (as best as I know it). Think about it, what use would the internet be thousands of years ago? Human beings labored all day for their own needs and did not have time to do research, worry about other far-away nations, etc.

The internet connects us and helps us understand each other, never before has something like it been possible, and in such a free, open, and beautiful way too. I have no doubt there will be replacements, I have no doubt You or I will be able to find whatever we want in the future. But it's not about us, its about everyone. Most people wouldn't go through the effort to keep it open, most people would be content as long as they could still go to myspace, email, ebay and youtube. The internet is a gift that everybody takes for granted (including myself). I wonder how people will feel when its gone (or neutered)

At a time when we are being brainwashed daily by the media, at a time when television is shit, the internet as we know it now is the only hope of freedom we have.
Thus yes, if we lost it the world would become a much worse place.

It would be almost-virtually-impossible to stop the internet. The Internet was developed on a concept and the concept did not change. It would just rebuild again, and again, and again.

And yet most of the world doesn't even have access to the internet.

Yeah right! Like NDAs can keep people from talking. Most corporations have problems keeping secrets even those that are actually internal.


Just what I was thinking. I spent half my life (I am 31 now) without internet access and then some with only dialup access.

"It's the end of the world as I know it and I am fine with it." - REM

It's "It's the end of the world and I feel fine." If you're going to quote something, get it right.

I hope you are right, but such a powerful "tool" for freedom is annoying an awful lot of powerful people, and I am sure they'd go to any length to stop it if there is a chance at all.

"The Year The Internet Ends" could only happen if the ISP's and the governments join forces to combat cybercriminals and take some profit with it. Things like Estonia mass cyber-attack in May 2007 and other CyberTerrorism attacks can end with he internet as we know it. More capacity to prevent and respond to cyber-threats will recuare more control.

Child porn, chat rooms, child predators, etc.

KEEPING OUR CHILDREN SAFE!!!!!111!!!

That will be how the internet is shut down. My personal guess anyway.

What these people don't realize is that they are parents, and they can prevent all of this by BEING A PARENT and keeping track of their child's actions (while not breathing down their neck).

This cannot be right!
ISPs are still earning big bucks!

They want to earn MORE big bucks, they also don't want to/have the ability to upgrade the speeds and bandwith of their networks, so they will forcibly limit our bandwidth, charge us more, and not upgrade their infrastructure, looks to them like they will make plenty of money this way.

According to their plans. In the event of a "national emergency", which is actually martial law, and "continuety of government", what they will do, is bring down the root servers, and bring up an "Internet 2", using IPv6. It will a centeralised network, with centralized servers. You will, if you want a website, have to pay a private company for a subdomain. You won't be able to run any servers unless you are one of the elite.Think, the internet with nothing but myspace.Thats the so called "Internet 2".



You are correct on such a scale so large that you have no idea HOW right you truely are. We are living in an age in which the general public would rather listen to their TV, than their neighbor, or community member. If someone says anything other than what their TV tells them, they say it doesn't exist. Truely 1984.

I would love to know how you can see a conspiracy in Internet2 and IPv6, please, share this information with us, as you seem to be the only one that 'knows'

Read their documents that refer to "centralised servers used for web content". Its up on their consortium site. I'm too lazy to google it.

Don't be stupid, you can't centralise the internet, not in the way you are saying, then it would just be a server, not the internet.

The internet is centralised in other ways anyway, the fact that all traffic goes through certain nodes and data centers.


Wow, I've been doing that for the last 4 years....

The DNS root servers ARE centralised. On a Google-type scale, yes, httpd could be.

Silly me. I really thought www stands for 'World Wide Web'. If any of those 'predictions' ever come true they'll have to rename the internet to wwaw (world wide american web).

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being anti-US just for the sake of being it. It's just a blunt reality that most of those 'multi-nationals' have their headquarters or at least some roots in the good ole US of A.

The scenario sounds like a nightmare, but I think there will always be smaller independent entities hosting and supporting smaller and so-called niche sites. Despite all globalisation, the demand for independent content has never ceased to grow over the last 10-15 years. It would be commercial suicide for the fat cats to totally steam roller everything. On the other hand, in order to push this through, all governments would have to agree on virtually fascist methods on a worldwide basis. Mind you, there are still plenty of countries in this world where you can say what you think without fearing serious sanctions.

I think many ISPs have shown this is possible, just look at the Chinese ISPs and many of the Middle Eastern ones.

Paranoid nonsense. The girl's got beautiful, huge eyes tho...

PS: If you wanna know why it won't work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

In Italy they have began cutting your bandwidth if you use p2p protocols (and some of them say so officially, with the excuse that they have to save bandwidth for "normal uses" ).
So who decides what a "normal use" is? They or the paying customer?

You're referring to national control and censorship in media and the political repression of 'inappropriate content' which is enforced into all aspects of life in certain countries. As I mentioned, those are totalitarian government-enforced practices. Those methods will be extremely difficult to get through in many other countries, as it would be anti-constitutional. Anyway, this is not the issue.

The issue is about private companies pushing their commercial content over any other content, be it commercial or not.

I'm also not sure if the issue is about those arbitrary practices of certain ISPs in certain countries, for instance capping bandwidth according to opportunistic 'rules' that can change any minute. I agree, that's a grey zone and somewhat dodgy too, as it seems like it's violating service contracts. Anyway....

To be honest, I'd rather have a slow, capped, neutered... internet connection with true free speech than a fast one with gigabytes of commercial rubbish and irrelevant, filtered, sugar-coated pseudo-information.

But at the end of the day, they are essentially the same thing.

No I was right. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_the_...nd_I_Feel_Fine)

I don't know the situation in Canada and the US, but in Europe small companies can always sell internet access with almost competitive pricing in the 1-5 MBit/s bandwidth-range. If any company were to cut down on content, users could switch to one of these for a price premium of perhaps 5-10$ a month, which would in turn force any ISP to offer unrestricted access. Plus: There is no way all major providers would restrict their access - matter of fact, anti-trust-laws would probably even prohibit doing so - and every company would have a huge incentive not to join such an alliance (once again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory).

If that's truly the case in your country then be afraid. Be very afraid.

Alternatively you could always go and do something about it. Private entities like companies can be boycotted, sued, strike, put under political pressure, you name it... With governments, once letting totalitarian ideas creep in and once established, that'll be a bit difficult - unless you have a direct democracy where major decisions are subject to public vote.

You are right, and I have already begun. I have been building what I like to call a "Cultural Nexus" for some time now. It contains media (Technical Documents on how to build things [solar panels, flywheels, computer programming, engineering, etc.] As well as Movies, TV Shows, Art, Pictures, Documents [Constitution, Sociological papers, Scientific Journals, etc.], Video Games, Computer Games, etc.) All of it Commercial free, and most of it intellectually stimulating.

I am learning how to produce my own power, run my car on alternate fuels, etc. I am doing what the government refuses to do. I am opting out of society if it doesn't get its act together, and I offer the courtesy of cooperation with those who feel the same way who live in my geographical region (Bellingham, WA). My actions have no financial motive, I do not care about something as trivial as money. My actions reflect a reaction to the ignorance and inaction which has invaded this country.

Not only your country, my friend. Mine is feeling like a fascist dictatorship.

No dude, you weren't. You said 'It's the end of the world and I am fine with it.' The end of that is completely wrong. I was listening to the song as I read it (yea I know, it freaked me out). http://www.lyricsdownload.com/rem-it-s-the...ine-lyrics.html