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macprogrammer

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Alessandro17
Alessandro17
Posted
Posted
Why is it unfair?

 

I find it unfair when a multimillionaire backs anything with huge amounts of many.

In the Linux world, where most distributions, except maybe for openSUSE and Fedora (and Mandriva, to a much lesser extent) are penniless, putting millions into backing your distribution is definitely "unfair competition" and not in the true spirit of Open Source. Nobody can tell me that Debian or Slackware, "poor" distributions, aren't better than Ubuntu just because they can't afford to advertise their distros everywhere and send free Cds to everybody who asks.

Anybody who thinks different is a beggar and can be bought with peanuts.

I am particularly touchy about this issue because my countrymen have just elected as Prime Minister one of the most rich and corrupted men on Earth.

 

Yes it was, they mixed KDE4 alpha games with their KDE3.x.

 

When you install openSUSE, unless you go for the defaults and click next, Microsoft style, you are in charge.

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Forceman
Forceman
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Stop trying confuse words with what suit you about OpenSUSE, just face the fact that Novell made a bad discussion in using KDE4 alpha stuff in a stable release. Yes I know you can uninstall it or use KDE3.x but thats not the point.

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InorganicMatter
InorganicMatter
Posted
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I find it unfair when a multimillionaire backs anything with huge amounts of many.

In the Linux world, where most distributions, except maybe for openSUSE and Fedora (and Mandriva, to a much lesser extent) are penniless, putting millions into backing your distribution is definitely "unfair competition" and not in the true spirit of Open Source. Nobody can tell me that Debian or Slackware, "poor" distributions, aren't better than Ubuntu just because they can't afford to advertise their distros everywhere and send free Cds to everybody who asks.

Anybody who thinks different is a beggar and can be bought with peanuts.

I am particularly touchy about this issue because my countrymen have just elected as Prime Minister one of the most rich and corrupted men on Earth.

I have two questions for you here:

1) Why do you feel it's an unfair game when Ubuntu has millions in backing, but you admit that OpenSUSE also has millions in backing? I'd say the playing field is pretty level.

2) Why is making money against the spirit of Open Source? Open Source is about letting others learn from your code and improve it. Despite what you may read on Digg/Slashdot, open-source has nothing to do with their communistic "nobody deserves to profit from this!" attitudes. Let's face it, at the end of the day, three of the four major Linux players (Red Hat, Novell, Canonical), are still in it for the money (Debian being the notable exception). Their community-edition software is free only because it's their testing grounds for their cash cow: enterprise software.

When you install openSUSE, unless you go for the defaults and click next, Microsoft style, you are in charge.

Indeed. That's probably why I never encountered them: all the stupid games, garbage apps, and false-sense-of-security software gets nuked when I'm installing.

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Alessandro17
Alessandro17
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Yes I know you can uninstall it or use KDE3.x but thats not the point.

 

And what is the point then, that we should be oh so worried about the n00bs and the lazy?

openSUSE is a bleeding edge distribution (and yet very stable)

If you don't like it use SLED, RHEL, Debian Stable or Slackware.

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InorganicMatter
InorganicMatter
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And what is the point then, that we should be oh so worried about the n00bs and the lazy?

openSUSE is a bleeding edge distribution (and yet very stable)

Since you are having this argument, hf you don't like it use SLED, RHEL, Debian Stable or Slackware.

He probably needs to be using Ubuntu (if you know what I mean :)).

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Forceman
Forceman
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I find it unfair when a multimillionaire backs anything with huge amounts of many.In the Linux world, where most distributions, except maybe for openSUSE and Fedora (and Mandriva, to a much lesser extent) are penniless, putting millions into backing your distribution is definitely "unfair competition" and not in the true spirit of Open Source. Nobody can tell me that Debian or Slackware, "poor" distributions, aren't better than Ubuntu just because they can't afford to advertise their distros everywhere and send free Cds to everybody who asks.Anybody who thinks different is a beggar and can be bought with peanuts.I am particularly touchy about this issue because my countrymen have just elected as Prime Minister one of the most rich and corrupted men on Earth.
Your talking nonsense now, Novell fund KDE and put money Microsoft's way for their agreement so you get that stuff in OpenSUSE the same. Kernel devs get funded, Google fund Opensource projects.Ubuntu is popular because people like it, not because Mark Stuttleworth uses his millionaire status to market it.
He probably needs to be using Ubuntu (if you know what I mean :) ).
I've been using Linux for about seven years man, Slackware and gentoo been there done that just so you know, I know my way around Linux.
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Alessandro17
Alessandro17
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He probably needs to be using Ubuntu (if you know what I mean ;)).

 

Yeah, un unbeatable champion of stabilty :(

 

I have two questions for you here:

1) Why do you feel it's an unfair game when Ubuntu has millions in backing, but you admit that OpenSUSE also has millions in backing? I'd say the playing field is pretty level.

 

That is a very different matter. Novell money goes towards developing openSUSE, not towards sending free CDs of a very buggy product.

 

2) Why is making money against the spirit of Open Source?

 

Did I say that? I said that spending millions in order to advertise your distro is against the spirit of Open Source.

Which chance have then the "poor" distributions to survive?

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Alessandro17
Alessandro17
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Your talking nonsense now, Novell fund KDE and put money Microsoft's way for their agreement so you get that stuff in OpenSUSE the same. Kernel devs get funded, Google fund Opensource projects.

 

Again, that is different. Funding development is different than throwing millions into advertising.

 

Ubuntu is popular because people like it, not because Mark Stuttleworth uses his millionaire status to market it.

 

Sure, and I saw 1000 pigs flying today. That is why one of the most corrupted men on earth got elected as Italian Prime Minister, not because he owns 5 televisions, dozens of newspaper and magazines...

It is a shame I am not a millionaire. If I were, I'd be sending openSUSE CDs/DVds to everybody who asks. I am sure I'd prove my point.

 

Ubuntu is no more buggy then OpenSUSE, they drink from the same cup. OpenSUSE updater and YaST is not buggy :(

 

OpenSUSE updater and YaST are not buggy at all

They are only slow in 10.3, which has already been solved in 11 Beta 1.

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Forceman
Forceman
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You should get over your problem with Ubuntu, it's just sad. I bet Mark uses mind control as well to get his Ubuntu users. :(

 

It's not like Novell dont have a few million in the bank or Redhat, yer by the way Redhat devs do alot of work for Linux tech that we all use, IBM with Udev, I can go on.

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Alessandro17
Alessandro17
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You should get over your problem with Ubuntu, it's just sad.

 

I have nothing against Ubuntu per se.

I have a lot against their practices:

1)They started by stealing all their initial code from Debian.

2)All their releases have been buggy as hell. That is something I don't fully understand. Only if you do it on purpose you can release something that buggy.

3)They have brainwashed people with their nonsense: "Linux for human beings", a shit-brown theme which was supposed to be the best thing after sliced salami, but especially their free CDs.

I remember exactly how things went here. All my friends were Gentoo users, some used Slackware.

Then they heard about the free CDs and they went mad. Even the most die-hard, ubergeek Slackware fan moved to Ubuntu.

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InorganicMatter
InorganicMatter
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Yeah, un unbeatable champion of stabilty :dev:

That is a very different matter. Novell money goes towards developing openSUSE, not towards sending free CDs of a very buggy product.

Did I say that? I said that spending millions in order to advertise your distro is against the spirit of Open Source.

Which chance have then the "poor" distributions to survive?

 

Ah, I see, it's the product-shoving tactics. I can certainly agree with you there. :)

 

Ubuntu is no more buggy then OpenSUSE, they drink from the same cup. OpenSUSE updater and YaST is not buggy :)

 

Bull. Ubuntu is by and far the buggiest major distro. out there. The Hardy Heron Release Candidate wouldn't even install on my computer! It got to partitioning, and just bombed out with "unable to partition /dev/sda." The OpenSUSE 11 beta 1 got further than that! Don't even get me started on how Gutsy's X crashes hard when I install my video driver.

 

You should get over your problem with Ubuntu, it's just sad. I bet Mark uses mind control as well to get his Ubuntu users. :rolleyes:

 

It's not like Novell dont have a few million in the bank or Redhat, yer by the way Redhat devs do alot of work for Linux tech that we all use, IBM with Udev, I can go on.

 

As Alessandro17 has clarified, there is nothing wrong with having money. It's the {censored} shill tactics and AOL-style product shoving that Ubuntu uses their money for where the wrong comes in. Maybe they should put that money into some better use like...oh, I don't know, software development? I'll even give them a few good starting points:

Ditch Brasero and implement some real burning software: K3B.

Stop pushing the POS Gtk2 so hard and get on top of Qt4.

Put some actual effort into getting a real KDE4 distro out the door

Make it easier to join a Windows Domain.

Implement a bit of quality control on the included drivers.

No more GNOME. Seriously. It's over, KDE4 is finally a serious competitor to Aqua and Aero. GNOME has been left in the dust, just let it die alreay.

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fatshitcat
fatshitcat
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Posted
I find it unfair when a multimillionaire backs anything with huge amounts of many.

In the Linux world, where most distributions, except maybe for openSUSE and Fedora (and Mandriva, to a much lesser extent) are penniless, putting millions into backing your distribution is definitely "unfair competition" and not in the true spirit of Open Source. Nobody can tell me that Debian or Slackware, "poor" distributions, aren't better than Ubuntu just because they can't afford to advertise their distros everywhere and send free Cds to everybody who asks.

Anybody who thinks different is a beggar and can be bought with peanuts.

I am particularly touchy about this issue because my countrymen have just elected as Prime Minister one of the most rich and corrupted men on Earth.

When you install openSUSE, unless you go for the defaults and click next, Microsoft style, you are in charge.

 

And what about Novell? They could do judt about the same thing. openSUSE has a company behind it which has far moer money than Mark Shuttleworth(that multimillionaire) would ever dream of.

So what if he throws millions into advertising? Good for him. At least it helps people.

Or does it seem unfair because Novell actually charges for openSUSE DVDs? 52€(83$) plus shipping for a DVD in a box and a booklet. Way to go, opensource! :hysterical: It is like Microsoft considering linux distros unfair.

1)They started by stealing all their initial code from Debian.

:blink: And every openSUSE release steals from KDE, GNOME, OpenOffice, etc etc etc. I think you got the point.

3)They have brainwashed people with their nonsense: "Linux for human beings",

You don't actually believe that, do you?

a {censored}-brown theme which was supposed to be the best thing after sliced salami

No one said that. At least it sets Ubuntu apart from all the green/blue themed distros.

 

Even the most die-hard, ubergeek Slackware fan moved to Ubuntu.

...and he can't be fooled by a free CD, can he?

 

OpenSUSE updater and YaST is not buggy

No, it's not bull. It left me with CLI :D .

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Forceman
Forceman
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You two people have a real problem, your not freesoftware supporters at all if you want another distro to die or GNOME(KDE4 rocks long live KDE and Qt talk) you sound like a elitist.

 

Microsoft actually sell SuSE on Novell's behalf and I dont see what the issue is with free cd's, your seriously misguided thinking it's popular because of that since just about everyone on the forum downloads it not asks for it. You sound like a pair of jealous distro elistest that Ubuntu is more popular then your own. The idea that Ubuntu stealed from Debian is stupid, so the distros based on SUSE stealed from SUSE, the ones based on Ubuntu stealed from them, utter nonsense.

 

Linux and free software is about sharing, Ubuntu's upstart some distros are going to use it. Novell did their XGL and compiz in secret and SLED is not free, they offer that for money to the enterprise people. SUSE charged for their product, since when does Ubuntu, as for giving out cd's well guess what, alot of distros do it if they can because you dont need to be a millionaire to do it.

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fatshitcat
fatshitcat
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I don't want suse to die, I used suse and it was not that bad but it wasn't that good to sing celestial chores about it. That's all.

Ubuntu is not perfect but it works for most people and doesn't deserve all that bashing.

Maybe I got carried away a bit.

:)

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Alessandro17
Alessandro17
Posted
Posted
And what about Novell? They could do judt about the same thing. openSUSE has a company behind it which has far moer money than Mark Shuttleworth(that multimillionaire) would ever dream of. So what if he throws millions into advertising? Good for him. At least it helps people.
We keep going around in circles. Read again everything above.
Or does it seem unfair because Novell actually charges for openSUSE DVDs? 52€(83$) plus shipping for a DVD in a box and a booklet. Way to go, opensource! :) It is like Microsoft considering linux distros unfair.
{censored}. Buying openSUSE is a totally unnecessary luxury, as you can have everything for free.
:) And every openSUSE release steals from KDE, GNOME, OpenOffice, etc etc etc. I think you got the point.
That is not called stealing, because every distro uses what you mention and they contribute back. I call stealing taking everything from another distribution, forking it and pretending that it is yours.
You don't actually believe that, do you?
I could believe in pigs flying. Other distros are made for animals.
...and he can't be fooled by a free CD, can he?
Yes he can, and that is my point. Some people sell their souls for a bag of peanuts.
You two people have a real problem, your not freesoftware supporters at all if you want another distro to die or GNOME(KDE4 rocks long live KDE and Qt talk) you sound like a elitist.Microsoft actually sell SuSE on Novell's behalf and I dont see what the issue is with free cd's, your seriously misguided thinking it's popular because of that since just about everyone on the forum downloads it not asks for it. You sound like a pair of jealous distro elistest that Ubuntu is more popular then your own. The idea that Ubuntu stealed from Debian is stupid, so the distros based on SUSE stealed from SUSE, the ones based on Ubuntu stealed from them, utter nonsense.Linux and free software is about sharing, Ubuntu's upstart some distros are going to use it. Novell did their XGL and compiz in secret and SLED is not free, they offer that for money to the enterprise people. SUSE charged for their product, since when does Ubuntu, as for giving out cd's well guess what, alot of distros do it if they can because you dont need to be a millionaire to do it.
How much nonsense can you write in one post? Read everything above and get properly informed about open source.

 

I am out of here.

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fatshitcat
fatshitcat
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Posted
{censored}. Buying openSUSE is a totally unnecessary luxury, as you can have everything for free.

Just to set the record straight.

Ubuntu can be downloaded, and the free cds are a totally unnecesary luxury aswell. :(

 

And since when is secret that ubuntu is based on debian? They aren't pretending this.

 

Some people sell their souls for a bag of peanuts.

Now this is getting really, really insane. Take a chill pill man, so what if there are people who like what you don't, why are you taking this so seriously?

You are right in some areas, i was posting to prove you wrong and stop considering opensuse God's operating system.

 

cheers

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Forceman
Forceman
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Novell sold their souls to Microsoft thinking they were patent infringing, Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian and others didn't, it says alot about Novell. When they brought SUSE they didn't have a clue, most companies have a clue when buying something to make it better.

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InorganicMatter
InorganicMatter
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Posted
You two people have a real problem, your not freesoftware supporters at all if you want another distro to die or GNOME(KDE4 rocks long live KDE and Qt talk) you sound like a elitist.

 

No one wants to see another distro. die. It will die, however, if it keeps clinging to GNOME. Like I said, KDE4 won the battle and is on the way to winning the war, so stop prolonging the agony.

 

Microsoft actually sell SuSE on Novell's behalf and I dont see what the issue is with free cd's, your seriously misguided thinking it's popular because of that since just about everyone on the forum downloads it not asks for it. You sound like a pair of jealous distro elistest that Ubuntu is more popular then your own. The idea that Ubuntu stealed from Debian is stupid, so the distros based on SUSE stealed from SUSE, the ones based on Ubuntu stealed from them, utter nonsense.

 

The only involvement Microsoft has is they officially support SUSE Linux along with their server software. If you call Microsoft and say "hey, how I can authenticate my SUSE users against an Active Directory?" they will help you. If you asked them that same question for any other ditsro, they'd tell you to go jump in a lake.

 

Linux and free software is about sharing, Ubuntu's upstart some distros are going to use it. Novell did their XGL and compiz in secret and SLED is not free, they offer that for money to the enterprise people. SUSE charged for their product, since when does Ubuntu, as for giving out cd's well guess what, alot of distros do it if they can because you dont need to be a millionaire to do it.

 

SUSE only charges for their enterprise products and support, same as Ubuntu charges for enterprise support.

 

Novell sold their souls to Microsoft thinking they were patent infringing, Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian and others didn't, it says alot about Novell. When they brought SUSE they didn't have a clue, most companies have a clue when buying something to make it better.

 

No souls were sold. Novell worked with Microsoft to get SUSE hooked tightly into Active Directories. It is the ONLY distro where you can just tell it "join this Active Directory" during setup, and it just works! No other distro in the world can do that.

 

By the way, if you want to get into boycotting Novel products, you need to boycott these as well:

http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

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