i upgraded to a 7600gt (natit), but no real performance improvements over gma950!

[simisimisimi]

i am using dual displays, until now with gma 950 and add2 card (one display with dvi, the other with vga). now, on that rig, i installed kalyway with a asus en7600gt (dual dvi) and with the included natit drivers....and it doesn't playback 1080p. it stutters so much, it's unwatchable, and i get a picture once every 30 seconds. (i "watched" a shrek x264 1080p mkv file).

 

also, what's weird is that in menu meters, the processor cores easily have a usage of 40-50% when i'm moving over the dock with my mouse and let the icons magnify - just as it was before with the gma950 and add2 dvi card.

 

it doesn't seem to have any improvement over the gma950 w/ the add2 card. i ran xbench and the overall score was 2 points less than with the gma950 at 92 vs. 94. how come?

 

also, quartz graphics test was 118 on the gma950 system and 127 on the gforce 7600gt, but openGL graphics was 206 on the gma 950 but only 114.55 on the gforce!

 

it seems to me that the system now with the gforce is slower than it was before with the gma 950.

 

does anyone have an explanation why? i bought this so i could playback HD content...but no way, even with the 7600gt!

 

best,

 

simon

[simisimisimi]

anyone?

[simisimisimi]

anyone pt. 2?

[tomauty]

I would remove the natit drivers and update to the newest ones or the newest nvinject. Also the decrypting of HD content is done by the CPU not the GPU.

[Templeton Peck]

i am using dual displays, until now with gma 950 and add2 card (one display with dvi, the other with vga). now, on that rig, i installed kalyway with a asus en7600gt (dual dvi) and with the included natit drivers....and it doesn't playback 1080p. it stutters so much, it's unwatchable, and i get a picture once every 30 seconds. (i "watched" a shrek x264 1080p mkv file).

The 7600GT features something called PV1 (Pure Video 1) that will offload *some* of the h.264 and VC1 decoding to the GPU. However, for this to work, you need three things (including HDCP-capable hardware if you plan on watching protected Blu-Ray/HD-DVD content):

(1) PV1-enabled drivers.

(2) A software player designed to take advantage of those drivers.

 

Unfortunately, neither of these currently exist on the Mac. Even in Windows, you'll have to buy a third-party program such as CyberLink's PowerDVD in order for this to work. And even then, PV1 provides only partial decoding which still might not be fast enough for 1080p. nVIDIA's 8 series provides PV2 hardware, which will do *all* of the decoding on the GPU, so you won't drop any frames. Of course, you'll still need PowerDVD and Windows. If you're not interested in any of that, you can try using a program other than QuickTime. QuickTime is notoriously bad at decoding h.264. Other programs such VLC feature much better software decoders, and may work better for you. As of right now the only way to playback 40 mpbs h.264 in OS X is with a beefy CPU upgrade -- as in a fast C2D or even a Quad.

 

also, what's weird is that in menu meters, the processor cores easily have a usage of 40-50% when i'm moving over the dock with my mouse and let the icons magnify - just as it was before with the gma950 and add2 dvi card.

entirely normal. It's just the way the dock app was written.

 

it doesn't seem to have any improvement over the gma950 w/ the add2 card. i ran xbench and the overall score was 2 points less than with the gma950 at 92 vs. 94. how come?

 

 

also, quartz graphics test was 118 on the gma950 system and 127 on the gforce 7600gt, but openGL graphics was 206 on the gma 950 but only 114.55 on the gforce!

 

it seems to me that the system now with the gforce is slower than it was before with the gma 950.

does anyone have an explanation why?

Xbench isn't even close to being "ballpark" accurate with respect to graphics. Any graphics score you get in Xbench is entirely meaningless, and should be disregarded. In fact, Xbench -as a whole- is not a very good benchmarking tool - GeekBench is much better.

 

i bought this so i could playback HD content...but no way, even with the 7600gt!

If you play games (recent games, made within the pst three years) the difference between the GMA and the 7600GT is night and day. The GMA will only give you single-digit FPS at the lowest detail settings -- a slide show, and an ugly one at that. The 7600GT will give you a pretty decent gaming experience. But for the purposes of hi-def video playback in OS X, it won't help you one iota.

 

Anyway, I hope my explanations are clear, and good luck

[Snerler]

I think i was able to do 1080p using gma950.

[Templeton Peck]

I think i was able to do 1080p using gma950.

1080p isn't the problem -- You could play back 1080p on a Pentium III, if it's in the right format. For example, 1080p that's encoded in MPEG2 will run fine on your system. You might even be able to playback low-bitrate advanced codecs in 1080p (like h.264 and VC1) , provided the bitrate is low enough. And yet another factor is aspect ratio. A 2.39:1 image will use fewer pixels than a 16:9 image, and consequently less CPU power is required to decode it.

 

In short, some 1080p clips should playback fine on your system, while others will play like {censored}; that's just the nature of the beast. If you're saying that you know of a specific video file that played back faster with the GMA950, it means that something is messing up your system (most likely a driver). Regardless, there is no video card that will give you accelerated playback of advanced codecs in OS X. This might "eventually" happen through a system update, but there's not much hope for the 7 series, if there's any hope at all.

 

Anyway, as I said, if you want any acceleration (of advanced codecs) from your 7600GT, you'll need Windows and PowerDVD - and even then it might not be perfect unless you use an 8 series card. If that's out of the question (and I don't blame you -- Windows sucks!) then you need a hefty CPU upgrade.

[simisimisimi]

templeton, thank you so much for taking the time to answer. you're the best! it has helped me very much. in fact, this was exactly what i wanted to know.

 

however, now i have 3 new questions:

 

1) it is clear to me now that a 7600gt GPU doesn't do anything to decode HD. but do the HD 2600's GPUs? iMacs have a radeon 2600 pro. on the ati page it says that it has "hardware processed 1080p video" on the HD 2600 series. if i'm not mistaken, this feature is called UVD. also take a look at this. meaning: that card should be able to hardware decode h.264 (an thus x.264) as well as VC-1 HD video, fully disburdening the CPU.

Now, given the fact that these cards are used in a mac, i want to display a quote by netkas:

 

2600XT(not a pro) is cheap enough and has UVD for HD video, drivers knows about UVD, but dunno does it really use uvd.

 

I think this would be the greatest if hackintoshes could take advantage of this. does anyone further information about whether UVD can be used / if it works for hardware decoding HD content when hd2600 are used in a hackintosh?

 

2) i "think" the system is slower after adding the 7600gt. it sometimes "feels" slower, e.g. when i move windows around it stutters a little, but this may also have been the case with the GMA950. but one thing's for sure: when i start up os x, there are moments where both screens go black for several seconds. booting takes longer with 7600gt. and also, it takes longer to open videos with 7600gt until they play. how can i test whether i have a driver problem? my install is simply kalyway leo and a natit.kext i added later on. or how can i test whether my 7600gt card is fast? geekbench? or can you recomment a graphics intensive game i could try?

 

3) i get weird artifacts all the since i have the 7600gt installed. in google earth, i get them all the time, like every two seconds, whenever i move the earthball, but also in word, etc. maybe i have a broken driver? should i try a different driver?

 

best,

 

simon

[Templeton Peck]

1) Actually, the 7600 GT will relieve some of the burden from the CPU, but the software/drivers required to use this feature doesn't exist on the Mac (hackintosh or otherwise). The Radeon 2600 Pro and GeForce 8 series support full decoding of h.264 and VC1, but again, there's no software/drivers on the Mac to take advantage of this feature (afaik).

 

2) There's a few simple ways to tell if your graphics card is working correctly. The easiest way is to look at the menu bar - if it's transparent then you know it's working. Another way is to check if you have Quartz Extreme and Core Image in System Profiler. You can also fire up "Graphing Utility" in Applications/Utilities, and select one of the 3D graphs from the examples menu. If your graphics card isn't working, you'll only get a blank screen. If you want to see how the card performs in games, you can download the Quake 4 Demo. This game would be unplayable on your GMA950, but it should run well on your 7600GT, even when you kick up the graphics.

[simisimisimi]

1) Actually, the 7600 GT will relieve some of the burden from the CPU, but the software/drivers required to use this feature doesn't exist on the Mac (hackintosh or otherwise). The Radeon 2600 Pro and GeForce 8 series support full decoding of h.264 and VC1, but again, there's no software/drivers on the Mac to take advantage of this feature (afaik).

 

2) There's a few simple ways to tell if your graphics card is working correctly. The easiest way is to look at the menu bar - if it's transparent then you know it's working. Another way is to check if you have Quartz Extreme and Core Image in System Profiler. You can also fire up "Graphing Utility" in Applications/Utilities, and select one of the 3D graphs from the examples menu. If your graphics card isn't working, you'll only get a blank screen. If you want to see how the card performs in games, you can download the Quake 4 Demo. This game would be unplayable on your GMA950, but it should run well on your 7600GT, even when you kick up the graphics.

 

thanks again templeton.

 

concerning question 1): if that was the case that the apple drivers don't use UVD, apple would be kind of stupid, wouldn't they? because to me it looks like full HD decoding is the core competency of the HD 2600 cards. they would let that potential go to waste!

netkas said that driver knows about UVD, so do you mean that no software player (like quicktime, vlc) takes advantage of the driver?

update: in this and in this thread, some people are discussing exactly that, and it really does look like apple is not taking advantage of it, having all HD decoding done by CPU/software. kinda sad!

 

concerning question 2) alright, i'll check! in system profiler everything looks good, QE/CI, dock is transparent. i'll download the quake 4 demo to check the gaming capabilities, too.

 

 

and a new question: do you also get artifacts from time to time in finder (e.g. parts of the menu bar in the middle of the desktop, distorted text in word...) and artifacts in google earth all the time?

 

thanks,

 

simon

[MrMacMan]

You have a pentium d it is not good enough for 1080i - the 7600gt doesn't offer support for hd acceleration like some of the newer cards not that I am aware of anyway.

 

Try a card with build-in hd acceleration maybe a 2600XT?

[Templeton Peck]

in this and in this thread, some people are discussing exactly that, and it really does look like apple is not taking advantage of it, having all HD decoding done by CPU/software. kinda sad!

Tell me about it!! There is a reason: Steve Jobs thinks that upgrading is a bug. The only current Mac with a graphics card slot is the Mac Pro (which starts at $2800 without monitor)! This effectively killed the demand for aftermarket GPUs. NVIDIA no longer makes aftermarket cards for the Mac, and ATI is phasing out the remainder of its offerings. With the market dead, ATI/NVIDIA have lost their incentive to write quality drivers.

 

Beyond drivers, Apple just doesn't care about graphics. Their current OpenGL implementation is outdated and sluggish compared to Windows. And considering their horribly inefficient h.264 software decoder, it's inconceivable that Apple would take advantage of video acceleration even if the drivers supported it!!

 

Steve Jobs fixed a LOT of things in his tenure at Apple, but he single-handedly flushed graphics and gaming down the toilet. I honestly don't think the situation will improve until he resigns.

 

new question: do you also get artifacts from time to time in finder (e.g. parts of the menu bar in the middle of the desktop, distorted text in word...) and artifacts in google earth all the time?

No artifacts at all for me. I'm using the ToH kernel without PC EFI. It might be a bad card. If you have windows on another drive/partition, try playing a game in Windows and see if you get the same problem.

[simisimisimi]

hi guys,

 

actually, i solved the artifacts problem - it was my card that was broken, gave it back to asus and they provided me with a new one.

 

now my question is: what driver is best for leo if i have a 7600gt and i want do use dual displays with dvi?

 

natit, or nvinject? and which version?

 

best,

 

simon

[simisimisimi]

hi guys,

 

actually, i solved the artifacts problem - it was my card that was broken, gave it back to asus and they provided me with a new one.

 

now my question is: what driver is best for leo if i have a 7600gt and i want do use dual displays with dvi?

 

natit, or nvinject? and which version?

 

best,

 

simon

 

anyone, what would be the best method?

[Hagar]

All this bumping & long answers, and no-one has considered that the setup you were running with gma950 may have required older versions of various files & frameworks to be installed that may not work as well with your nvidia card? Worth checking, I'd say.