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Moral issue: Now that OSX for Intel Macs can now be purchased, do you still feel OK downloading it?


zenwhen
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How many of you plan to go out and buy a Leopard disk if you plan to install a Leopard OSX86 release?

 

I understand the whole "I am downloading it because I cannot buy it and install it." point, but now you CAN buy it. I think one would have a moral ground to stand on when installing OSX86 Leopard if they had a retail box bought and paid for sitting on top of their computer tower.

 

At this point, using OSX on a PC without buying it is no more than pure, simple piracy.

 

Are you OK with that?

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Either way, it's still piracy. Apple doesn't make money off of Leopard. They make money on their hardware. If you buy Leopard without having Apple hardware, then you're not really helping Apple generate a profit.

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That's not our fault. We still bought the software, it's up to them to support our choice of hardware or not to. Pretty simple.

 

Maybe the OSx86 scene will change their minds down the road. Oh wait, that means Steve has to stop being a control freak. Ok, so scratch that idea.

 

Sometimes, piracy is the right course for change.

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That's not our fault. We still bought the software, it's up to them to support our choice of hardware or not to. Pretty simple.

 

Maybe the OSx86 scene will change their minds down the road. Oh wait, that means Steve has to stop being a control freak. Ok, so scratch that idea.

 

Sometimes, piracy is the right course for change.

 

 

thats pretty retarded, the requirements are a mac, not a pc. its' not their fault you're dumb. i do use leo and tiger on a standard pc, but trying to imply that its morally right is just stupid.

 

you're stupid.

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if I had money to buy it for my macbook, I would. But as I don't have R$269.

 

So I think the moral issue is not a major problem, anyway all other softwares I use at home are piracy, so no damage.

 

I have many copies of pirate XP, office, the sims, nero, norton, what else you can imagine.

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that's right IF apple decided to sell PC compatible mac os tomorrow JUST for one day IN REJKJAVIK i would PERSONALLY SWIM there to buy it for even a 1000$ ..... sooooo sick of junk Windows slow sh... bUt apple HAVE TO keep pushing their overpriced hardware ..... so no regrets about piracy here ... after all we are all kind doing a little experiment .... will it work or not .... hmm :)

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Either way, it's still piracy. Apple doesn't make money off of Leopard. They make money on their hardware. If you buy Leopard without having Apple hardware, then you're not really helping Apple generate a profit.

 

It doesn't matter if Apple makes money of a sale of Leopard; it's their own fault if they can't turn a profit off the sale. Profit is the sellers responsibility; not the buyer's.

 

And it doesn't make sense that Apple can't profit off the sale of Leopard without a Mac purchase. If Apple does not expect to make money off individual sales of Leopard, then why sell it?

 

And profit has nothing to do with piracy.

 

Although you may be able to get around the piracy issues if you buy Leopard and only download the patches. But I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if patches count as "derivative works."

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i can only speak for myself, but I was very excited when the first osx86 of tiger was released in 2005. in fact I was able to test the gui, use every application, ... but there were problems with networking, sound, and the sata-interface which were not recognized as drivers were missing (chipset was nonintel and nonamd). It was enough to make me buy an Apple Computer as my next computer. As I never have regreted the decission since then, I'm sure that my next computer will also be an Apple, unless the company doesn't change for the worse in the next years. i have since "converted" 3 people using pcs at the moment to apple computers, with another 2 planing to buy in the upcoming months.

 

so without the possibility to download the hackinthosh or leopard, this stuff wouldn't spread as much as it is needed for apple to reach new customers and users thinking about switching from pc's, and I'm absolutely sure that apple knows of this fact

 

another effect I found on myself is that I'm starting to learn objective-c and cocoa now, so there will be a new developer for the apple platform in the coming years. which means that there could be an application that someone was missing until then on osx, which could result in new customers for apple computers too

 

also i'm the typical guy who has to be always on the edge of computing, I always had the latest betas of every windows version coming out, I'm using latest developer branches of ubuntu and so on, the fact that microsoft made an operating system that sucks (sorry for the windows users out there, but this seems to be the tenor of all my friends having bought a new computer coming with vista preinstalled), and also put some kind of copy protection on it that "sucks" even more, made me switch from the pc plattform as it now seems to me forever, so they won't see my money not only for retail versions, but for oem versions pre-installed on new pcs too. being able to use leopard now for "free" (i can't afford it at the moment, as I'm currently unemployed and have still to payback the credit for my macbook pro), ties me more to the apple plattform, which means that my next computer will be apple again, which means i will buy leopard or the next osx by then.

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Either way, it's still piracy. Apple doesn't make money off of Leopard. They make money on their hardware. If you buy Leopard without having Apple hardware, then you're not really helping Apple generate a profit.

 

Sure they do. If you buy a copy of Leopard, $130 minus the cost of packaging goes straight into their pockets. If everyone bought PCs and Leopard copies and Mac sales were 0, perhaps they might not be able to sustain doing this forever. But if someone was never ever planning on buying a Mac, it's pure profit.

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my guess is that 95% of this community is nothing more than cheap-asses and wont even bother buying anything now that it technically is a universal release.

qft

 

for the record i bought the family edition, but i don't have any hackintoshes either

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Well, in my case Apple does make profit.

 

I bought a Vista laptop a few months ago and most of the programs (including office 2007) did not work ok, even after trying for two days. In pure frustration I installed OSX86. Two hours later everything was up and running, including my printer!

 

OSX was such a great experience that I now bought an iMac and over the next years all my hackintoshes will be replaced my macbooks.

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i've had some illegal copies of windows before, but always paid for mac os ;)

 

sadly enough i even got me vista recently for no reason at all really. i just kinda wanted to check it out. rather stupid investment really

 

how some of you seem to believe it's perfectly fine to run a pirated copy cause apple makes little profit off it anyway is seriously beyond me. i mean, just admit you don't give a {censored} or don't have the money. potentially buying some hardware in the future also does not qualify you for stealing software right now. i've had plenty illegal software when i was younger and short on money, but i never turned it into this "they're getting more marketshare and i'm totally doing them a favour" thing that you got going on here....

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I bet if Apple decided to release MacOS to all PCs, they will get a lot more market shares. The OSX itself is only $150 or so, isn't it? For a good OS that's really not much. Hey, I will even pay $200 for it. Market it to the public, let people do whatever they want with it. Did you hear me, Mr. Job? :)MacPaqJust for the record it, I always like Macs and I already have two Macs, I am sooooo tempting to get a 2.0G 20" iMac next week, that thing is a beauty!! :blink::) :) I just found it facinating that I can tweak an OS anyway I want. I have lota fun doing it and learn alot from doing it. That's why I like Linux as well. MacPaq

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There's no way Apple will (in the foreseeable future) release OS X for general machines. They make their money not on the software, but on the hardware. You have to keep in mind, Apple is a business. They seek market share only as a means to make money. And it's also cheaper for Apple to support a limited number of systems, rather than every conceivable configuration possible (that's part of what keeys OS X working so smoothly).

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There's no way Apple will (in the foreseeable future) release OS X for general machines. They make their money not on the software, but on the hardware. You have to keep in mind, Apple is a business. They seek market share only as a means to make money. And it's also cheaper for Apple to support a limited number of systems, rather than every conceivable configuration possible (that's part of what keeys OS X working so smoothly).

 

sorry, but if apple does make money out of their hardware,

why the F*** they charge for leopard? as if i could (legally)

run it on any other platform- so i already MUST HAVE bought mac.

they simply charge twice.

 

i had an bought an mini with 10.3 just to get some weeks later

the announcement "hey, we have a new tiger, it runs only on

mac platform, but you have to pay for it!"

thank you, steve! bundling hardware with software and software

with hardware. if m$ were to even think of this, they'd be sued

back into middle ages..

 

and some weeks later they came up with "hey, we thought ppc is

cool, but it sucks, now intel is great!"-- just after i switched to ppc.

well, what the heck, i'll never ever again buy apple. sometimes

there is the hope, that piracy will change things..

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They make the bulk of their money off the hardware, but they still can't just prance around releasing products which cost money to make (and many would pay for) for free. Apple made their reasons for switching clear: IBM couldn't continue producing competitive products (3 GHz G5, anyone?). Bundling software with hardware is what Apple does: if you don't like it, go somewhere else. Apple really wants people to think of it as a single product: a Mac computer.

 

There's no way Apple would turn such a good profit as a software company (most people, believe it or not, get their OS with their computer, and leave it like that). Few, if any, other hardware companies would even want to carry OS X (support, and fear of jeopardizing their relationships with Microsoft).

 

By making a single, coherent product, Apple maximizes their profits, as any good business would do.

 

As for your argument about "charging twice", that's like saying that your computer (let's say you bought a manufacturer's computer, like Dell or HP, with a legal Windows license) had a Microsoft subsidy for XP, therefore Vista should be free. It simply isn't logical. You get significant value by purchasing a new OS, ergo you pay for it. If it's not worth $129 for Leopard, don't buy it. Stick with Tiger, it won't break suddenly.

 

Apple makes the bulk of their money as a hardware company, but it would be absolutely stupid not to take advantage of users wishing to upgrade, and willing to pay. I'm not saying I wouldn't be thrilled if Apple made Leopard (and subsequent versions like 10.6) free, but the simple fact is: Apple is a business, not a charity or a cult (though some might disagree). They try to make as much money as they can. So does Microsoft. So does Google. So does Dell. (et cetera)

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They make the bulk of their money off the hardware, but they still can't just prance around releasing products which cost money to make (and many would pay for) for free. Apple made their reasons for switching clear: IBM couldn't continue producing competitive products (3 GHz G5, anyone?). Bundling software with hardware is what Apple does: if you don't like it, go somewhere else. Apple really wants people to think of it as a single product: a Mac computer.

 

There's no way Apple would turn such a good profit as a software company (most people, believe it or not, get their OS with their computer, and leave it like that). Few, if any, other hardware companies would even want to carry OS X (support, and fear of jeopardizing their relationships with Microsoft).

 

By making a single, coherent product, Apple maximizes their profits, as any good business would do.

 

As for your argument about "charging twice", that's like saying that your computer (let's say you bought a manufacturer's computer, like Dell or HP, with a legal Windows license) had a Microsoft subsidy for XP, therefore Vista should be free. It simply isn't logical. You get significant value by purchasing a new OS, ergo you pay for it. If it's not worth $129 for Leopard, don't buy it. Stick with Tiger, it won't break suddenly.

 

Apple makes the bulk of their money as a hardware company, but it would be absolutely stupid not to take advantage of users wishing to upgrade, and willing to pay. I'm not saying I wouldn't be thrilled if Apple made Leopard (and subsequent versions like 10.6) free, but the simple fact is: Apple is a business, not a charity or a cult (though some might disagree). They try to make as much money as they can. So does Microsoft. So does Google. So does Dell. (et cetera)

 

 

aah, not quite the truth about PowerPC, think about cell processors-- and power6.

but rumors are that apple didn't got hands on these.

 

and no, its simply not the same. i can install vista on any hardware, there is no

bundling, but there is with leopard. i don't argue with selling updates, something everyone

does. but i can install my vista more or less on any computer i wish for. thats not the

same with apple, having strange "Don't steal me.kext". (besides, why macs are so

overpriced, if not for the software? so actually they already charged me for that..)

 

but yes, to cut it short: i wished apple to be on the "good side of the moon", whereas,

as you pinpoint it, apple is just another company. (and yes, to come back to the topic,

if its just another company, i'm just another pirate with no moral issues).

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To be honest, I think Apple could be allowing projects like OSx86 develop, and simply pretend they don't exist. I'd rather see their effort put into giving us a stable, fully-featured OS rather than protection against hackers and whatnot - why should we lose out because of non-Mac owners?

 

The time and money they'd save might also allow them to bring the prices down a little, but I guess that's just unrealistic. Still, they're approaching this the wrong way. Don't block out pirates, welcome them and get them to use Apple's hardware.

 

Anyway, back ontopic, I think that it's alright if you've given some money to Apple, buying some kind of products. In my house, we spend thousands on Apple gear - and we try to buy some software from them, but sometimes it's not possible. If you guys are buying iPods or whatever, and are planning to buy a Mac, then I don't think you should feel any guilt at all downloading OSX - you'll be giving back to the company eventually.

 

However, I oppose people just downloading OSX and not giving anything to Apple, regardless of product. Why? Just counter my points above. ;)

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Apple is pretty much allowing OSx86 to flourish, within the restrictions of not angering their stockholders. Have you noticed how short the time period for OSx86 after release has tended to be? There's no serial, no activation, none of that stuff Windows does.

 

I don't pirate software from Apple, Microsoft, or anyone else. For me, the moral issue is simple: if the product is work the price, I buy it; if it isn't, I don't. Apple isn't being particularly evil (or particularly kind), I buy Apple products on their merits. Can you really expect Apple to behave otherwise? Again, they exist to make money for shareholders. I don't think they're nearly as nefarious as they could be, but again, that's not out of generosity, that's a calculated business decisions.

 

Macs are not significantly overpriced (anymore). Yes, you pay a small premium. That's because Apple knows that many customers are willing to pay a little more for OS X. If you feel that's overpriced, vote with your dollars. If Apple realizes that they would make more money by lowering their prices (and increasing their sales), they will do exactly that.

 

"Don't Steal Mac OS X.kext" is obviously an anti-piracy measure. Honestly, yes, everyone in the industry has to implement something, otherwise their stockholders would get very angry and Apple would shortly find itself with a new CEO. But it's not terribly effective, as we've seen, and far less intrusive to legitimate users than "Enter this 25-digit serial number, now let me ping back to my server, now activate, etc." My beef against DRM and other anti-piracy techniques is not that it prevents pirates (that's the point), but that it interferes with legitimate users who abide by the law and SLA.

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