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The high price of Apple computers


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#241
S.SubZero

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It seems the nerds are always obsessed with specs and not the things that you can't put a price on like user experience. Normal computer users don't care about specs as long as things don't run like {censored}.

Normal computer users don't know what "don't run like {censored}" even means. They know what the PC they use at work runs like, and they know what the PC they use at home runs like. That's their impression of computers. These people I know had this old P200 (Pentium I) junk box for years that they believed was fine for them. When they bought my old P4 2.8Ghz laptop to use for business, they were utterly blown away. The old P200 junk box suddenly became woefully slow and unusable and they ended up replacing it.

People who buy Macbook Pros for $3000-$4000 with slow hard drives and weak video cards, they believe they are getting the only thing that will do what they need to do. Perhaps they are. Apple has certainly convinced them. Maybe they think MacBooks are flawless or something. I've heard that Apple uses magically superior hardware that nobody else has! The fact that OS X natively recognizes and supports a surprising amount of generic PC hardware in OSX86 might be a clue to the contrary.

It really comes down to what people perceive as value and as useful. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of computer users do not feel Apple computers provide either.

#242
Konami®

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Normal computer users don't know what "don't run like {censored}" even means. They know what the PC they use at work runs like, and they know what the PC they use at home runs like. That's their impression of computers. These people I know had this old P200 (Pentium I) junk box for years that they believed was fine for them. When they bought my old P4 2.8Ghz laptop to use for business, they were utterly blown away. The old P200 junk box suddenly became woefully slow and unusable and they ended up replacing it.

People who buy Macbook Pros for $3000-$4000 with slow hard drives and weak video cards, they believe they are getting the only thing that will do what they need to do. Perhaps they are. Apple has certainly convinced them. Maybe they think MacBooks are flawless or something. I've heard that Apple uses magically superior hardware that nobody else has! The fact that OS X natively recognizes and supports a surprising amount of generic PC hardware in OSX86 might be a clue to the contrary.

It really comes down to what people perceive as value and as useful. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of computer users do not feel Apple computers provide either.


I agree with you but also you have to understand that Apple provide the software and hardware in a controlled environment and provide less problem than a PC that have a lot of junk software when you buy it, not just windows. updates to firmware is more easy to do, customer support is more strong. You have to think about what the apple computer provide to the user experience and not put the fact in specification. PC and mac today have the same hardware but not the same support, user experience and design quality.

#243
Alessandro17

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It really comes down to what people perceive as value and as useful. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of computer users do not feel Apple computers provide either.


Exactly. OS X has become for me little more than an hobby OS, a distant third after Linux and Windows XP (because of a couple of programs).
Here a MacBook Pro 17" costs € 2,699.00, with nothing added, not even a dial-up modem (which is still needed in Italy) and with a miserly 160GB 5400-rpm HD, which now is standard even in € 600 notebooks.
That is a crazy amount of money in this country with the current economic climate: it is at least 2.5 monthly wages/salaries for most. Especially when you can get a notebook with decent specs for about € 600, and one with great specs for about € 1200/1400.
With other words, for the vast majority of Italians the priority now isn't "luxury" (if a Mac can be considered as a luxury), but saving money.

For those who don't believe me, here is an example. It is in Italian, but it shouldn't be too difficult to understand:

Dell Inspiron 1720

PROCESSORE Processore Intel Core™ 2 Duo T7700 (2,40 GHz, FSB 800 MHz, cache L2 4 MB)
SISTEMA OPERATIVO Windows Vista Ultimate autentico
SCELTA COLORI Nero opaco con webcam da 2 megapixel
SUPPORTO HARDWARE 1 anno di garanzia di base - Ritiro e restituzione
LCD Passate dal display WXGA+ da 17" al display WXGA+ widescreen (1440 x 900) da 17" con TrueLife™
MEMORIA SDRAM DDR2 a doppio canale da 2048 MB a 667 MHz [2 x 1024]
UNIT DISCO RIGIDO Doppio disco rigido SATA da 320 GB (5400 rpm) (2 x 160 GB)
SCHEDA GRAFICA nVidia GeForce™ Go 8600M GT con 256 MB di memoria grafica dedicata DDR2
UNIT OTTICHE Unit interna fissa DVD+/-RW 8x con software
BATTERIA PRINCIPALE Batteria principale 6 celle agli ioni di litio (56 Wh)
Accessori
BLUETOOTH Modulo Dell™ Wireless 355 Bluetooth 2.0 (fino a 3 Mb/s), velocit avanzata trasm. Dati - Eur
CONNETTIVIT WIRELESS Scheda mini Intel Pro Wireless 3945 802.11a/b/g, Europa - Core 2 Duo Processors
SOFTWARE MICROSOFT Microsoft Works 8.5, italiana
Il sistema include inoltre
Modem Adattatore e modem interno 56,6 k V.92
Supporto standard 1 anno di garanzia di base - Ritiro e restituzione
Sintonizzatori TV Telecomando da viaggio Dell™

Totale 1.349,81 € (half the price of a MacBook Pro with similar specs)

Please note the double HD, 320 GB

Also please note that I have upgraded the OS to Ultimate and the CPU to the fastest available, so that I could match the MacBook Pro specs. Without these upgrades a saving of at least €350 was possible (Vista Home Premium, 2.00 GHz CPU, not bad specs).

#244
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It seems the nerds are always obsessed with specs and not the things that you can't put a price on like user experience. Normal computer users don't care about specs as long as things don't run like {censored}.

People like Apple for their OS and quality and are willing to pay the premium to get it while people who never used OS X, or dislike it get a cheaper Windows based machine.

I enjoy using my Macbook, it's the most versatile computer I have ever used. It's a 1.83 Core2Duo, 2 gigs of ram and a 200 gig 7200 RPM drive.

Everyone here is at least an advanced user -- so of course we're going to look at specs.

Normal users look for value, though. And that's why Dell and HP are kicking Apple's {censored} in sales.

#245
S.SubZero

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I agree with you but also you have to understand that Apple provide the software and hardware in a controlled environment and provide less problem than a PC that have a lot of junk software when you buy it, not just windows. updates to firmware is more easy to do, customer support is more strong. You have to think about what the apple computer provide to the user experience and not put the fact in specification. PC and mac today have the same hardware but not the same support, user experience and design quality.

This is arguable. Apple's not perfect. The iPhone pricing fiasco shows they have no problems with screwing over customers. They have their bad decisions, their defective hardware, their buggy software, just like any PC user deals with. The difference here tho.. Well, I wasn't happy with how Dell handled a warranty claim recently. My next laptop won't be a Dell. If an Apple customer is unhappy with how Apple treats them or unhappy with the product, but relies on the software.. well they either cheat and do OSX86, or they are stuck with Apple. Even when Apple completely abandons the hardware platform. Twice. In 10 years.

#246
Headrush69

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Normal users look for value, though. And that's why Dell and HP are kicking Apple's {censored} in sales.

Although value is an important criteria for many "home" users, even if Apple computers sold for next to identical prices, Windows based PCs would still probably outpace Apple sales significantly for quite some time. There is still a big stigma to anything NOT Windows and a ton of misinformation regarding Apple computers and OS X.

(Might as well maximize your profit as you gradually gain market share and move to a more "established" platform.)

#247
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Although value is an important criteria for many "home" users, even if Apple computers sold for next to identical prices, Windows based PCs would still probably outpace Apple sales significantly for quite some time. There is still a big stigma to anything NOT Windows and a ton of misinformation regarding Apple computers and OS X.

(Might as well maximize your profit as you gradually gain market share and move to a more "established" platform.)


Correct -- and Apple isn't rectifying this problem with it's prices, either.

#248
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Although value is an important criteria for many "home" users, even if Apple computers sold for next to identical prices, Windows based PCs would still probably outpace Apple sales significantly for quite some time. There is still a big stigma to anything NOT Windows and a ton of misinformation regarding Apple computers and OS X.

(Might as well maximize your profit as you gradually gain market share and move to a more "established" platform.)

I agree! When I was shopping for a computer 2 years ago (before Insanelymac ;)), my friend was like, 'Get a Mac!', but I just wouldn't consider them, even though I thought the core duo mac mini was great value! I just had a mental block against them, like everyone else I guess...

#249
Headrush69

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Correct -- and Apple isn't rectifying this problem with it's prices, either.

And price would NEVER rectify the problems I'm talking about.

Apple has always been about design whether it be the machine itself or the OS.
Sure cheaper priced Macs might bring in more OS X converts but it might also just sell a lot of cool designed computers that people would just run Windows alone on.
Sure it still makes Apple some money but I'm guessing not what they want or what fits their company objectives.
(Or they could have easily just have become a cool "PC" supplier and dropped OS X a long time ago.)

Considering they keep selling at all time highs, why should they lower the prices other than us just wanting cheaper prices?

Why are brand name tires more expensive than no name tires even though they are made by the same company and just rebranded?
Why are brand name groceries more expensive than no name groceries even thought they are made by the same company and just rebranded?
Insert many more examples here....

Bottom line you are paying for the name and the OS.

Question should be why so much of a stink to Apple computers being overpriced when we purchase other overpriced products all the time?

1) We can't quite afford to buy an Apple and are disappointed/bitter.
2) We have become spoiled with the price of electronics these days.

#250
dutchiee (=

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I like Apples :D






nah but in all seriousness, Apple products are overly priced, at least the Mac ones anyways. Why would i spend a good $4000 when i could spend a mere 2.5-3k considering what some of us are doing? i mean i read up not too long ago about a user in this forum buying apple matching parts running at the same speed as one of the fastes mac pro's and saving himself alot of money. i mean it all runs genuinly too, no EFI, no hacks for this, only some drivers to support gpu and what not.

I was interested in buying an Apple notebook until i saw the specs for the prices, i was just thinking of buying an Asus laptop with better specs and using that, plus its a heck of alot cheaper too. I mean it may not be as easy to install on, but at times no OSX86 ever is. i Had my troubles installing my current OSX, plus its fun to figure out the problems.

I just dont see the point in spending so much money on genuine mac when i could buy a better cheaper laptop which could do the same thing? I mean i understand the whole " Its a Mac " thing like woah! but Mac isnt that great. It may be better then windows but the actual user support and buyers is far greater. and you can do more with spending less money. just use a hack, unless u wanna spend extra money to make it more genuine, if so, just go buy the OS and make it work.

just my two cents..

#251
Headrush69

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Why would i spend a good $4000 when i could spend a mere 2.5-3k considering what some of us are doing?

For you and I this is true, but for the majority of OS X users this still isn't easy enough or full proof enough.
The number of issues posted in these forums is proof of that and which user wants to buy new PC parts to run OS X only to find some update kills it?

So if we can build our own systems and run OS X then why do so many people bitch about Mac prices?
No matter how you answer that question, it proves that there is added value to having a genuine Mac and that is what that extra $$$ is buying. :)

#252
Konami®

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So if we can build our own systems and run OS X then why do so many people bitch about Mac prices?
No matter how you answer that question, it proves that there is added value to having a genuine Mac and that is what that extra $$$ is buying. ;)


I builded my machine to run OS X and is great. I didn't bitch about the prices of macs, but after I switched to OS X, I am a truly mac user who is going to buy a genuine mac computer soon! You know, Apple does not see this probably but we (The OSX86 Community) are given to Apple new converters. Someone said before, that using OS X is guarantee that you are never going back to windows and this is really true in my case.

#253
Kiko

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you like apple, you pay. for people looking at high end machines (apples high end line i mean) an extra 500 is not going to mean alot (well at least it didnt for me)

#254
tomazzzi

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mac book mac book pro : high priced

mac pro : fair ( take exactly the same configuration with a pc it ll cost more )

#255
Alessandro17

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mac pro : fair ( take exactly the same configuration with a pc it ll cost more )


That is also true, but the upgrades are very expensive, especially extra RAM (example: 4GB instead of 2: + Eur 450).

#256
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don't you realize that apple has all was made us pay premium? Because of this we get the cheaper os upgrades... and amazing support.

(once again i tell the story of my brothers 4g ipod)

My brother was at college and his earbuds broke. He sent apple an email and next day brand new pair of earbuds in his mail box. (His college is on the east coast, apple is on the west coast)

That is a simple thing and he didn't even have to send his old ones back. (but another year they broke again and he had to send back the old ones that time)



So really apple care is totally amazing. And yes they make you pay premium but you get superior support, design, and os.

#257
S.SubZero

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(once again i tell the story of my brothers 4g ipod)

For every time Apple (which has warehouses all over the country) sends free earphones to people based on the mystery content of one email (did your brother just put his home address in the very first email?), you get.. well...

http://gadgets.boing...-be-outsou.html

#258
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I think that currently the two Apple products with the most competitive pricing are the Macbook and the Mac Pro.
The Macbook, well, many people have already repeatedly compared it to Dell counterparts, and they are nearly the same price.

The Mac Pro, well, I have yet to see a PC with 8 cores that starts at $2800. Furthermore, 3rd party RAM upgrades would make a Mac Pro with 8 core 2.8GHz Xeon, 10GB of RAM, 1TB of hard drives, Geforce 8800GT, 30" monitor, etc, cost only $5000. At present, even the high-end of the pre-built consumer PC market only goes up to quad core, and 8GB of RAM (and any Dell with that much RAM and processor would probably cost $5000 as well). That said, PCs usually beat Macs at graphics cards. However, graphics cards are nearly irrelevant in some of the computer graphics industry, since 3D raytracing is done entirely by the processor (rendering speed is directly proportional to the number of cores), and so is a lot of computer simulation models, etc. The Mac Pro was mainly built for professional work, not gaming.

Meanwhile, the Apple product with the least competitive pricing, as far as I can tell, is the Macbook Pro. Nevertheless, there are rumours that it will get updated soon.

#259
thespottedelf

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For every time Apple (which has warehouses all over the country) sends free earphones to people based on the mystery content of one email (did your brother just put his home address in the very first email?), you get.. well...

http://gadgets.boing...-be-outsou.html

actually my brother jsut sent an email to apple care... gave them his apple care id or w/e and they sent it to him....

And every single kind of support has one dud working for them.

#260
Kiko

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purple puppy, highend != alienware, alienware is just {censored} hype. Highend workstations are made by HP and BOXX (http://www.boxxtech.com/)





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