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The Apple iPod. Falling Behind The Crowd?


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The Apple iPod has success that is unmatched in the music industry. From the first iPod to the new Video version, the iPod is everywhere and being sold in record numbers. The problem is, where is Apple/Jobs taking the iPod? Right now it looks like the iPod itself, just the iPod NO iPhone model, is stuck at the 2.5 inch 4:3 screen and not moving. The iPhone is coming out with 3.5 inch widescreen and all the bells, but with all the new technology, the space is limited to 4 and 8 gigs.

 

What I am wanting is a PVP or PMP. What are those? Personal Video Player or Personal Media Player. The iPod is an option, but after you look at he competition, not a great option. Take the Archos line of products. The main two you find is the 404 and 604. The 404 is 3.5 inch 4:3 screen and the 4.3 inch widescreen model both with 30 gig hard drives. Picture:

 

21c-archos-404.jpg

archos_604.jpg

 

The 604 is big and nice, the 404 is great to with a more compact version. The 604 is spiffy but large. I would get the 404 and even with widescreen movie, it would be awesome. These players also do picutres like the iPod but they can record tv or dvds with the PVR add on (think Tivo). That is awesome. These can also record audio like an audio recorder and can play DIVX, MPEG4, MPEG2 (additional codec) and H.264 (additional codec). Some models have a camcorder/camera built in. Kind of superior to the iPod isn't it? Oh, did I mention this is compatible with Windows, OS X, AND Linux out of the box with NO software required (acts as a usb hard drive)? :rolleyes:

 

Price?

 

Walmart has these at:

 

404: $249

604: $288

 

 

Next big one is the Creative Zen W:

 

0005465113649_500X500.jpg

 

This bad boy is like the Archos, has a great set of features, addition of a FM tuner (can recorder the FM songs) but is dependent on Windows. But for those Windows users, this machine is outstanding and can come in 30 gig models and 60 gig models.

 

Price?

 

Walmart has these at:

 

30 gig: $296

60 gig: $394

 

Some places have better prices, just picked Walmart.

 

Pricier than most, but still an option.

 

The Zen Vision M is an iPod clone, yes, but it plays MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, Divx, Xvid, and WMV. Even though it is an obvious copy, the sucker is $50 cheaper and plays more video formats and still 30 gigs in size!

 

0005465111903_500X500.jpg

 

Again and plain copy, but with more colors than Apple and more video formats AND you save $50, well damn, it is a deal.

 

From there you can go back to Archos, there are a bigger 604 version with wifi and then there is a 700 series with 7 inch screen.

 

What I found in all of this? Apple is slacking off, BIG TIME. Now I know I will start a war over this, but I am tired of Apple and their iPod scene. I think I understand all the users on here that just don't mess with the iPod but still are Mac users. The iPod is nice, but you are restricted. I mean for God's sacks, why can't Apple add more to the iPod? They are comfortable. It is sad because as you can see, the competition is passing Apple. Yes I know the sales numbers is still there, but I have heard many pick the Zune with it's screen (it is bigger than I thought, I will admit that) over the iPod. This is from my cousin that sales these things as a Radio Shack manager and that is straight from consumers mouths.

 

I just sold my iPod Mini to my mac buddy at work. With the money I got on the side for fixing people's pcs, I am getting the Archos 404 saturday. I am converting videos for it and I am excited. Sure, no iPod but a better overal product that isn't so restricted, can be used on 3 different OS's, and just better in my opinion. I still am an Apple fan, just their iPod's are really falling behind. I don't see that many sales anymore when I go to my local stores. I do see sales of other MP3/multimedia players. *shrugs* I posted this as not as to start a flame war, but to give some information to the community: there are better alternatives to the iPod if you want multimedia. If you want just music, well the Zen M is cheaper and you get the same thing. Though if you want a small MP3 player, the Nano is a great.

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if the iPod really is losing marketshare and falling behind the crowd, they can easily push out a widescreen touchscreen iPod based on the iPhone and shut the critics up (don't be surprised if they have the prototype ready for production any moment). Apple isn't gonna lose marketshare anytime soon in the mp3 market, and DRM-free iTunes store and more movie studios signing onto iTunes will only push things forwards

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You don't think apple doesn't already know this? The current Ipod version is reaching the end of it's average product cycle (day 206 of 223 average) per macrumors.com. I'm not saying in 17 days there will be a new ipod but i imagine they are just around the corner from releasing a new generation. I expect the next gen of ipods to look like the iphone in screen size without any buttons like the current ipods have...all touch screen. I don't know though I don't work for apple so who knows, maybe they are steering the ship into the rocks like M$ is with vista, maybe not. I do think we'll see the new ipod in the coming weeks to months though and i'm looking forward to it

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I agree. For 1 the zune has wifi and can stream music to other zune users "that would be cool on a ipod" I think another thing should be a fresh new gui "graphical user Interface" :unsure: and maby another button for something.

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all the bells and whistles isnt great, i like the ipod for its simplicity, i dont want to be able search the internet and get wifi and share songs all from my ipod, i have a laptop for that, the ipod is awesome for what it does, i have a old black & white ipod that only plays music and reads text files, and even so who wants to watch a movie on such a tiny screen. Sure a touchscreen wouldnt be bad but a lot of other things would be...

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They can make the iPod have the widest screen imaginable that's able to project a 50" iTunes movie your wall streaming using wifi with your Mac and god knows what. It all means nothing if the batter remains as miserable as it is compared to some competitors.

 

It dies on your every 4 days,....,3 days,...., 2 days,.....,1 day,....., 18 hours,.....,.......,......,....., 10 mins.

 

And what can you do when you reach this mode of operation within around a year or a little more? More or less nothing for cheap due to the built in battery.

 

And BTW the iPods audio quality is close to rubbish. My friend had a 3 year old 256MB Sony mp3 player and his bass wooped my 60GB iPod Photo like you wouldn't believe.

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And BTW the iPods audio quality is close to rubbish. My friend had a 3 year old 256MB Sony mp3 player and his bass wooped my 60GB iPod Photo like you wouldn't believe.

 

I know what you mean. My friends old sandisk sansa has a Bass Boost feature, but then i looked at my ipod and messed with the equalizer until i got something i liked (Rock setting is perfect. blows his away even with crappy white earbuds, let alone nice sony headphones)

 

As far as Zune/iPod cometition goes, the ipod's still going to blow the zune and most other MP3 players away for a few reasons.

 

1) Simplicity. The ipod has a fast interface that doesnt require clicking to scroll through a list and the clear white interface keeps it fast.

 

2) Size. The iPod and iPod nano are both great examples, let alone the shuffles "wearability". The zune was just too big for my pockets. And some Archos DVP my friend showed me was a little on the heavy side. Better for travel then instant music.

 

3) Style. Aple has really centered their production line on the whole "angelic white" look, and it works. As much as i like the zunes wider array of colors, they almost look "soft" because of their matte finish. And the mirrored back of the iPod, I see so many girls use them as mirrors to check their face and put on makeup during lunch, its almost funny to watch them simulataneosly listen to music, and hold an ipod up to their face.

 

4) Syncing. Before the iPod, putting music on your MP3 player meant dragging the songs you wanted onto the removable drive that was your player. When the ipod came it, it didnt eliminate that, it just did it without you knowing. "Plug our iPod in, pull it out, viola, all my iTunes songs now on my ipod". The zune has a very fimiliar interface that does basically the same thing, but many other "cheaper" mp3 players require you to still manually drag files to the drive of the device.

 

As much as I'd like an FM tuner and Wi-Fi to share my music and sync wirelessly, Im fine without those features. The more you add, the less battery life you'll get out of it. besides, In my case, I'm getting so much music (thanks to OiNK :lol: ), who needs FM. Now XM (or Sirius) would be amazing.

 

 

 

Edit: Dont ask for invites.

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Im not saying apple is falling behind... it's just the ipod is no longer one of it's kind. Zunes are selling like nuts.. I see more zunes in my school now. Im sure apple wants people to turn there heads once again.

 

i have no idea what you're talking about. I have never seen a Zune. On the other hand, almost every other person on the streets has an iPod. You go on the subway, chances are you'll see a person with the iconic white headphones on. In fact, iPhone is generating 10x the buzz of the Zune and it's not even out yet!!

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Indeed, I doubt that many people in my year even know about the Zune >_>

I'm in higher education now, I walk past hundreds of people every day, and I've never even seen one in real life.

Now that I think about it, I may have seen one in a computer store along the lines of Wal-Mart, once or twice...

And I agree, I foresee Apple launching a Ipod version of the iPhone; now that'd be cool ^^

One thing I don't understand though, is complaints about battery life :s I use my iPod daily and recharge just as often. It still plays about as much as when I first got it *-)

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Got my Arhos 404. WOW! <_< Never mind the iPod. Yeah, they may get the wide screen version based on the iPhone later on, but why later on? Why not now? Why not when the iPhone was announced? Laziness. If you really want to pay for an iPhone just to get the video on it, go ahead. I got me a 3.5 inch widescreen display (it is not 4:3 like said online, and the box says it is widescreen), with 30 gigs storage, and can do MORE than the ipod. You want simple? Hell, out of the box you can just put up the Archos and go. Sure more buttons, but just more versatile. I think I am set in a new group of personal media players, the Archos.

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People: Bass response =! audio quality, other wise your sub woofer really has the best audio quality

AFAIK iPod's quality is not bad, i think the 1st gen shuffle has the best quality sound.

 

Back to the topic: No, Apple is certainly not behind the flora of multi-format video/audio players. The fact is, for most consumer, Apple's target market, being able to play Divx/Xvid, Flac, Ogg or whatnot is not important. What's important is that they can operate their player with ease and manage their music without dealing with mess of file structure. iTunes + iPod system does this and continues to succeed, while other companies are improving their systems to catch up (Zune + Zune marketplace).

 

People like you and me cares about open source lossless codecs, or being able to drag and drop, or watching Dvix video and not worry about dealing with complex UI and having to convert videos, we are in a niche market that Apple simply don't care about. I got an iAudio X5 to play Ogg/Flac a while ago, but ever since I started using an iPod nano, the X5's being sitting quietly in the drawer, occasionally used as a portable drive just 'cause it's a pain to use compare to iPod.

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I think the iPod's have a certain amount of fashion that goes with them though. You don't get that same look with a Creative Zen Vision:M (at least, that's my opinion).

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I've got a first generation iPod (a WHOLE 5GB in a brick). Battery has been serviced once by Apple for free. 5.5 years later... I'm not bored, haven't seen/heard of anything else, it still works, it equivilent(sp) is much cheaper, I already know how to use it etc.

 

why take a chance with anyone else's product? For what? a maybe a few dollars? No thanks.

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I have to agree with the simplicity argument here. When I first got my 60gig video ipod, I put some videos on it and watched them for novelty. But, a few weeks later I found I had deleted them all to make room for more music. Now, it pretty much lives in "Shuffle" and I just velcro it to the dashboard of my car and hit play. Couldn't ask for anything simpler.

 

Speaking of audio quality... Anyone know if they have powered headphones out there with a dock connector? That would be the ultimate, since it would use the lineout signal and they could put whatever amp they wanted in the 'phones. I got a PocketDock thingy for my car, to get line out. BTW that thing is iffy, the miniplug jack sometimes loses the right channel going over bumps and such, and is quite annoying. I need to find a dock-connector-to-RCA jacks cable. Anyone know about that one? Sorry for the semi-off-topic.

 

Edit: link to pocketdock if anyone cares.

 

Edit 2: Found the cable I was looking for, but not headphones. Should've Googled before posting.

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Ease of use? Ok, but there are many players that are easy to use.

 

Nice to see a good discussion going, though I am seeing more people that only use the mp3/song ability of the iPod. My thoughts of this discussion were on the multimedia aspecs of the iPod and other players. Some responses are "some people don't need that stuff, we just listen to music" well, ok, but for those that DO use the multimedia aspects of the iPod, for pictures, people's own movies, tv shows, and full length movies, what do you think of the iPod vs. everybody else? I have yet to see that.

 

Not griping or anything, I am glad my post brougt up a great discussion, but the whole point is NOT just playing music, but movies etc. If you just use the music function, cool beans. More power to ya! I was wanting to hear from the iPod owners that use the photo and video function of their iPod and comparing them to the Zune, Archos systems, Zen systems, etc.

 

Again, not griping just wasn't what I expected in the discussion. I do realize we are on a mac site and I will get alot of iPod pro arguements :hysterical:, that is fine. I just would like to hear from those that use the iPod for the video and other functions to.

 

I am a multimedia freak, so just having music is ok but not what I was looking for. I have had my Arhcos 404 for a day now, got Ghostbusters (full film), Dawn of the Dead (2004 film), a few eipisodes, and I am still adding my favorite stuff. After using the new iPod to watch video, I am so glad I went this way. The iPod, for a person that wants video as much as audio like me, isn't a good option. kernalzero, you post makes no sense. If Apple knows this and cared, they would have done something. Not in october but way back when the iPhone was announced. I think many need to realize that Apple, even though they will put a widescreen iPod out, is just not caring. I mean the last verion of the iPod had a brighter screen over the previous version. That was it! Pathetic and an insult. I know they will put a nice new iPod out soon, would be funny if they did soon after this dicussion, but the fact is that the video iPod is being used a crutch by Apple and if they don't move on soon, AND produce a superior or equal product to the Zen's/Zune's/Archos' out there, then I am think the iPod, will not be as dominate. I agree with a post above me, many are not buying iPod in certain areas like they should. When I bought my Archos, I was commented on it by the sales rep and we agreed on the superior abilities of the Archos. *shrug*. I just think Apple is being lazy. My opinion though.

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Not only have they slacked off on iPod updates, but the iTunes music/video store has been getting a lot of bad press lately which could end up hurting iPod sales, even if they come out with a nice new model... many people would probably prefer (and rightly so) a more OS-independent interface as described above where the player appears as a generic drive then recognizes files on its own. Third party companies are also realizing the importance of appearance and general "fit and finish," so to speak (a category in which I think the iPod still rules) of a product that you carry around with you all the time. From looking at earlier iPod competitors, it seemed like they were more or less ignoring that aspect.

 

And in response sandman, I guess the point I was making about only listening to music, was more that I had tried to use it for movies and was so sorely disappointed that I simply gave up. The screen is just too small to enjoy anything, especially things that aren't in 4:3! The iPhone looks promising as far as video enjoyment goes. But I don't think I would want something that big as a phone. I would love to see the iPhone, but with a hard drive instead of phone capability, for a little less money.

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The Cowon A2 (and upcoming A3) is slightly larger than a 4G iPod and it has sooo many nice features. And its great to use, too. I have an iPod, but I don't mind. Its sleep/standby feature is good for school to start playing quickly during passing and such.

 

People over think some stuff, I think.

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jglavin, I understand but that is a main point I am getting at! :) The iPod videos design is so far behind everybody, that most give up on the video aspect. With a Zune (God forbid me on saying that :D ), Archos, or other multimedia players (the iPod isn't just a music/mp3 player anymore), the screens are better. I put a bunch of full screen stuff on my Archos and 3 widescreen movies (adding more tonight). The screen is so big and nice, it is not a problem to watch. So you made a point for me: the iPod's screen is a big lacking feature.

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That's because the current iPod is not yet an iPod Video. It is an iPod with video. It is a music player, and it still does video pretty well, IMHO.

It is not falling behind anyone, because it is the leader in the portable video market, mainly because there barely is a market for that at the moment. The closest thing would be the iPod with video because you can download video content from iTunes and slap it on there and go.

No pressure right now to change anything.

Apple has proven that in order to be successful, you need to provide the product, and the content for it. They can take all the time in the world, until someone tries doing this, to release the video player to conquer all the rest.

This iPod is just a clever set-up for when they can have iTunes with video content globally available, at which point they may put out the best video player this tiny market has ever seen. And it will have "classic" iPod functionality (not classic because it will be old by then, classic because they have already won in the market, and only have to make sure they don't fall behind). It will most probably resemble the iPhone.

So to recap/summarize, there are flaws with this video iPod because it isn't a video iPod at all: it is an iPod with video. And Apple knows that the market for such a device is tiny until they get in there and create a need for it with their content on iTunes. Which is why the iPod with video is considered by many (including you) to be a competitor in this market: the content. Technologically, though, it isn't.

 

-Urby

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