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God, why don't people believe in the idea?


djpc47
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I was just thinking about the whole concept of Atheism Why are people so inclined to believe in it.... I mean..... well up to about this point you'd guess it right.... yeah I stole the line and topic idea from killbot, but not quite..... well the idea, to shed some light rather some more light.... no such thing as a one sided story and because one sided stories are easily convincing....

 

for me I was born a Roman Catholic to a world in which I had 2 parents one which was raised believing and thinking highly of god and Catholic beliefs..... praying rosary and all... who, to till this day every night prays at a small little alter she made up in the living room(my mom)... and then another parent who was born to a family in religion, if you can say it that way.... my grandpa was the care taker for Portugal's biggest church..... my dad along with a lot of his brothers and sisters were Alter boys and ect. (well I dunno if chicks could be alter boys too but you get the idea...)... well non the less the turn out from my dad and a good amount of my relatives was not as religious groups would want you to have it seem... My dad he does to this day believe in a god.... and trust me he has reasons.... but he's far from being called Ned Flanders, my uncle is a total crook though some will defend em, and I have had aunts who had a questionable lifestyle(this is what we call life of a human;))....

 

a little further must we..... my neighbor she adopted 2 kids who grew up to be 2 religious figures you can say... one being a Sister(Nun but in white/blue), Priest... one of the ones who took a huge part in Mother Teresa become known as a Saint..... is my neighbor a saint.... heck my family use to help at a food shelter when I was younger and my dad saw this poor guy outside the building and he gave the guy some food that we were unloading.... the guy took off happy.... one of the sisters complained to my dad.... my neighbor, rather then just leaving her nose out of things she just said that my dad was wrong for trying to be a nice guy and doing what he thought was right and trying to help out a poor guy who likely had a family to feed that had nearly nothing for food.... you get me?

 

anyway living this "ruthless life", that I've lived, well you can say I have had a bit of a multiple perspective point of view.... not that no one else has had same idea or worse or better or whatever.... I don't care just saying whats needed to prove the point...

 

anyway do I believe in a god as I've said and stunned some, pleased some and possibly disappointed others.... yes I believe in a god.... well why... no i won't say my parents telling me that god existed didn't have an effect on me... but however I will say I at one point did question everything like an atheist but came to the conclusion that god or no god it don't worry me I believe in one.... especially for as long as it don't trouble me..... I viewed things threw my eyes and came to that conclusion, if its a delusion I dunno;) but its ok cause I'm use to living a life of mass confusion(little wacked out ryhme I decided to edit in;))

 

my thoughts on atheism, at one point I looked at most atheists as most religious people I assume do..... if you don't believe in god your a dumb ass who's not worth mentioning.... but cause my will for further perspectives, I kinda always had it in me to believe theres got to be a good atheist out there;P.... at the time I had met atheists that don't believe in god cause they dunno why, that are pissed off at god and claim it as revenge, and perfect people who claim it to be hardcore..... then it came the day.... I had a friend who asked me if I believed in god one time and then when I said yes he responded "really!, I thought you believed in some matrix'ie type thing or something crazy".... as a response asked em if he believed and he said his parents were suppose to be some Buddhist religion or something he wasn't sure.... so from that day on he would on occasion send me some links or video's that were seriously silly not really that offensive anti religion things..... and so one day I went to em after he sent me this video from Pen and Teller..... said, that was funny.... me I don't take that stuff to serious... me I believe in a god but am not really sure about everything else I 'm open to perspectives... so result was that the guy in turn spent about 1-2 hours explaining what basically and why he believed in what he believed and why he was atheist.....

 

result was I found my first good atheist...... tip of the day: everyone needs a good atheist to know when they're getting out of hand:P

 

And no, I am not actually totally trying to rip em off killbot to the core or anything or get any problems started rather...... I figured it would just be cool to possibly get another point of view.

 

please: no {censored} please...... your assuming someone elses life is better is not a good reason to be atheist...

 

 

added bit: just to explain a bit on what I found about Atheism, or at least within that one friend of mine..... again this isn't a global thing that you'll find in everyone(no 2 people are alike) but its the reason why I chose to respect em based on his belief.... well heres the reasons.... ethics and morals..... what I found in my one friend was that, in the end he didn't want to prove there was no god or that there wasn't but rather he wanted to possibly I guess prove that a good is good regardless:).... and to me it don't matter if your following a idol, a false idol, or no idol at all if the message is good its better then following whats assumed to be a true idol that does only harm... and that I can't complain

 

 

I editing this a bit and may do so a bit more later I've tried my best sorry if theres anything thats possibly wrong but we'll see the idea is to possibly get another perspective... I know there are some good reasons half decent not hate related or stupidity driven:P reasons to say your Atheist

 

Thanx

Edited by djpc47
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Ok, I will tell anybody my story for whoever wants to listen.

 

I grew up in a happy household, I have the greatest parents, and I had a wonderful childhood, nothing out of place, everything went great, my parents just weren't religious people (that is not to say however, that they are atheist) both of them believe in something (universe, energy, etc.) in any case they never talked much about their beliefs until I asked about 3 years ago or so (I'm 21 right now). In any case, religion was never part of my life, not even growing up, so it just never integrated into my personality. So I lived life like a normal person. I am a good person I believe. I have only had intimate relations with people that I greatly cared for, I don't do drugs, I drink from time to time, I go out of my way to help people because it makes me feel good inside, I don't care what some abstract notion of a god thinks of me, all I know is what's right inside, and I think everybody does, really I do, I just think DOING IT is the hard part, and that's where most people falter. The point is that I grew up without god, and when I learned about it later in life it sounded kind of crazy, stupid, and made up to me, like the easter bunny, or santa clause, my reaction was "you don't really believe in this do you?, thats crazy!". It really seemed childish to me, and I guess it still does, to think that people actually think there's some big dude watching us all the time and judging us, and sending us to hell if we're bad, and let us PRAISE HIS NAME FOR ALL ETERNITY if were good (not my vision of heaven anyway hehe). I really honestly think that people (religious people) like control, they like to feel like their lives are controlled, god is like their parent since they don't have parents telling them what to do anymore (my hypothesis anyway).

 

I just never grew up with god in my mind at all. and from what I can tell, I still don't need it, nothing in life has logically led me to god existing in any way. It seems as if most things can be explained through natural means (science), and the things that cant are JUST beyond our grasp but not unknowable. And also, I don't need god to validate my existence, or to feel whole, I can do that all by myself :P. I don't know if this helped explain anything at all, but its how I see the world.

 

In any case, I'm not trying to be "hardcore", I have no anger toward god (or air, as I like to think of him), I have no ill feelings, I feel good inside as a person, whole. Knowledge of the world makes me feel at peace, I have read up on most of the worlds major religions, and I think there is something to take from all of them, especially Theravada Buddhism. But none of them, not one is right on all issues, and I think anybody can agree on that (assuming your're not a crazy zealot). It is quite obvious that man wrote these holy works, because according to the bible, the word of god is PERFECT, but if the word of god was perfect (ie the bible) then anybody would be able to interpret it exactly the same, we wouldn't need complex theologians to tell us what it means, we would simply be able to understand...in fact I would go so far to say that if the word was perfect, it would change for everyone who read it because every person needs different words to get the same message across, I'm sure you understand this from school, and certain teachers you liked vs ones you didn't. However, whenever I pick up a bible, the words don't change when I open it, meaning that the word isn't perfect, which means they weren't written by god...just my thoughts on it anyway

 

Love

Killbot

Edited by killbot1000
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believing in a vague concept like god is allright I guess.. I think everyone believes there is something 'out there'. Putting your faith in a book however is quite scary. All religious people dont just stop at believing in a god, they also have to believe in a prophet (Muhammed, Jezus), and in a holy book (Koran, Bible) The holyness of these prophets and books unifies them with the believe in god. So if you believe in god you have to follow the rules of the prophet and the book.. People who distrust these books (Man-made) and question the prophet (human) are called atheists by people who do believe in both. Very strange. Not trusting/believing something that is coughed up by one of the most manipulative entities in the history of men (Catholic church, really.. especially when they still had worldly might in Europe) should not be considered the same thing as not believing in God. Atheism means 'without god' from the Greek Atheos.. not believing in the whole circus called religion mankind built around it is quite different in my opinion...

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I was just thinking about the whole concept of Atheism Why are people so inclined to believe in it....

 

 

lol... its not so much that atheists beleive in atheism, its more of a LACK of beleif in God.

 

i dont beleive in God for the same reason I dont beleive in pixies, fairies, elves or trolls*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*(despite the large number of trolls living in our forums... they dont count ;))

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lol... its not so much that atheists beleive in atheism, its more of a LACK of beleif in God.

 

i dont beleive in God for the same reason I dont beleive in pixies, fairies, elves or trolls*.

*(despite the large number of trolls living in our forums... they dont count :rolleyes:)

 

well that line was the whole part of my little joke... pretty much I remembered having seen 1-2 topics/posts(dunno what its called), in which it had to do with the same things. People just trying to understand different perspectives... different ideas..... anyway because though I'm not the best writer in the world or possibly not the most elegant one at expressing myself, I figured this would be possibly one way to ask a similar question to get more results.... possibly different ones that wouldn't appear otherwise;P so far no one has actually expressed their thoughts on this on what they think of your guys reasons.... but here I go to explain my perspectives....

 

hey I can use this quote to explain 2 things now:P.... sorry Munky, I know your a mod but your gonna have to serve as an example;)..... anyway... in a large part to my understanding the whole comparing god to others things and saying thats the reason you don't believe in a god is possibly the number one reason why religious people wouldn't agree at all with atheists..... note: I don't think that there will be a day in which the religious will directly agree with atheism, however some may.... come to a understanding that concludes with them understanding that there is a amount of lets say good atheists(lack of a better way to express my meaning that will not take a long time.... sorry)

 

note: I always come to a point in which I find it hard to explain myself about what I mean, but pretty much a atheist who has a truly honestly good reason in general.... to me is just as good as if they did claim to believe in god cause what they represents is barely a difference...... to me its like finding the most honest to truth nicest/purest person who does believe in a god and just cut the word god out and put a "?" mark and you have nearly what I'm talking about..... in truth to me its not like these people do or don't rather they live a life based on ethics/morals and thats all leave the rest to hope/question possibly.....

 

my dad one time noted to me... he thinks one of the biggest errors of man is to try and compare god to man... though religious people by the masses are guilty of this..... a good amount of people don't like to hear their beliefs being compared to a drawing..... even if years from now we find in a stone cave a drawing of god:P and mickey mouse labeled and all.....

 

the way I like to think of this is this.... in peoples young ages some do things that they regret in life..... and if someone is to defame a group late in life for what they did early in life... though it should be one of those forgive and forget type moments..... sometimes rather it ends up with people angry:P

 

anyway my belief is the best way to express yourself in this case is not to defame the possibility even if its not intentional.... no one wants to be friends with a bully:P

 

anyway hopefully i didn't offend anyone myself

 

people dont belive in the idea because there is no physical evidence of him being alive

 

no offense hopefully, but here we have typical assumption.... which there is no problem with it but its just... usually based on the group of people who says they don't believe in god cause they see no reason but in a negative way.... as though its like Conan said..... they don't see physical proof:P

 

to me the possibly best reason is a no reason, but one that doesn't need explaining in a way of speaking:P.... as I said its not lack of no mass amount of:P.... a point at which the person reached a neutral conclusion

Edited by djpc47
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but.. you're missing the point. most atheists probably see the universe in a very scientific way. (well, i do, and most of my atheist friends do).

 

the American Heritage Dictionary of Science defines 'Science' as:

 

The investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the knowledge produced by such investigation. ◇ Science makes use of the scientific method, which includes the careful observation of natural phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis, the conducting of one or more experiments to test the hypothesis, and the drawing of a conclusion that confirms or modifies the hypothesis.
.

 

Science is a rigorously tested, peer-reviewed system of discovery, knowledge and understanding about the way our world and our universe work. Scientific study hinges on empirical evidence (where empirical means 'Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment' - American Heritage Dictionary).

 

That is to say, that scientists do not beleive anything which cannot be proven. They accept things which others have proven, which have been reviewed by their peers, who have subsequently agreed with their conclusions.

 

 

The reason I personally dont beleive in God is that there is NO empirical evidence of such a being. To me, asking why I dont beleive in God is a ridiculous question. Its like asking me why I dont beleive there are pink mice playing the tambourine on my shoulder, or why I dont beleive in the enormous elephant standing in front of me armed with a machine gun.

 

I cannot see the mice or elephant, cannot hear them, cannot feel them. If I move to occupy the space within which im told they exist, I feel no resistance. Any number of scientific measuring devices could be brought in to test the area of space in front of me / immediately above my shoulder to detect exactly what kind of atoms and molecules exist in that space, and none of them would provide any evidence of the mice / elephant.

 

It is, in short, a ridiculous claim. Just because you tell me there is a God, or an Elephant, or Mice or whatever, doesnt mean i'm going to beleive you. The fact that many other people do beleive it to be true also does not convince me, nor does some book which was written by a number of authors a couple of thousand years ago, which was subsequently edited by a Roman senate for a Roman audience, and which has since been subject to any number of modifications, translations and other violations by those whose motives were sometimes questionable at best.

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but.. you're missing the point. most atheists probably see the universe in a very scientific way. (well, i do, and most of my atheist friends do).

 

the American Heritage Dictionary of Science defines 'Science' as:

 

.

 

Science is a rigorously tested, peer-reviewed system of discovery, knowledge and understanding about the way our world and our universe work. Scientific study hinges on empirical evidence (where empirical means 'Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment' - American Heritage Dictionary).

 

That is to say, that scientists do not beleive anything which cannot be proven. They accept things which others have proven, which have been reviewed by their peers, who have subsequently agreed with their conclusions.

The reason I personally dont beleive in God is that there is NO empirical evidence of such a being. To me, asking why I dont beleive in God is a ridiculous question. Its like asking me why I dont beleive there are pink mice playing the tambourine on my shoulder, or why I dont beleive in the enormous elephant standing in front of me armed with a machine gun.

 

I cannot see the mice or elephant, cannot hear them, cannot feel them. If I move to occupy the space within which im told they exist, I feel no resistance. Any number of scientific measuring devices could be brought in to test the area of space in front of me / immediately above my shoulder to detect exactly what kind of atoms and molecules exist in that space, and none of them would provide any evidence of the mice / elephant.

 

It is, in short, a ridiculous claim. Just because you tell me there is a God, or an Elephant, or Mice or whatever, doesnt mean i'm going to beleive you. The fact that many other people do beleive it to be true also does not convince me, nor does some book which was written by a number of authors a couple of thousand years ago, which was subsequently edited by a Roman senate for a Roman audience, and which has since been subject to any number of modifications, translations and other violations by those whose motives were sometimes questionable at best.

 

 

Exactly! Thats how I feel.

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It's a really clear sky over here tonight. I was just sitting on my porch and looked up to our galaxy, to the seemingly endless number of stars and probably billions of earth-like worlds out there and thinking: what does an insignificant species, living on an insignificant planet, in an insignificant solar system, somewhere on the fringes of an insignificant galaxy give the presumptuousness to believe there is exactly one 'creator' out there who designed all of the mind-boggling vastness and complexity we're surrounded by?

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also, are all the churchies picking on me because I'm the most outspoken atheist here? Just curious

 

In fact you are not an atheist because you find reasonable the positions of some of the oldest "beliefs" of mankind:

Buddhism, Taoism, Vedanta...

 

Somebody who can't believe in a personal , vindictive God, + sacred books as dogmas (the Lord Buddha said that you shouldn't believe in something just because is written, but only if it sounds reasonable to you) + hierarchies which are more interest in power and money than anything else, is not necessarily an atheist, just the opposite.

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i am atheist because i dont see any proof of god or supernatural beings.

i was raised not going to church and by parrents who mocked "belivers". we never went to church, and i always was given the scientific explanation for events. when i first asked how the world was created, i was told that it was some kind of big bang. i never heard of god creating the world until i went to school, and i was deeply perplexed by it.

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In fact you are not an atheist because you find reasonable the positions of some of the oldest "beliefs" of mankind:

Buddhism, Taoism, Vedanta...

 

Somebody who can't believe in a personal , vindictive God, + sacred books as dogmas (the Lord Buddha said that you shouldn't believe in something just because is written, but only if it sounds reasonable to you) + hierarchies which are more interest in power and money than anything else, is not necessarily an atheist, just the opposite.

 

Ah I see what you mean, I guess what I mean when I say I'm an atheist is that I don't believe in a personal "god" (vindictive, sacred books to go along with it, etc.) its really the "god is personal" part that really gets under my skin :wub:

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Ah I see what you mean, I guess what I mean when I say I'm an atheist is that I don't believe in a personal "god" (vindictive, sacred books to go along with it, etc.) its really the "god is personal" part that really gets under my skin :)

 

Exactly.

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I think one chose to beliebe or not beliebe.But that i think is the greatness of being humans "TO BE DIFFERENTS FROM EACH OTHER".

I am not a belieber, but that doesnt make me fell that i am right and the others dont.

I just think one could like the blue or red .Just that.

i guess we shouldnt discuss about being right,

and offcourse i wont try to make you an atheist .

I know we will never understand each others beliefs based on his own arguments because when we arguing ,one always want to win and that my friend will lead us to close our minds.Because we were grow with different enviroments .

 

thank god i finish this post :euro:

 

greetings.

Edited by Zealot
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But that i think is the greatness of being humans "TO BE DIFFERENTS FROM EACH OTHER".

I am not a belieber, but that doesnt make me fell that i am right and the others dont.

I agree with your state of mind but I reckon the actual point goes further. The fact that there are differences in humans is a given but some people seem to rather focus on celebrating the differences than on searching what they have in common and build upon it. I suppose our little world here on earth would be a much more peaceful place if more people adapted the attitude of 'live and let live'. Instead we see a lot of mistrust and betrayal, paranoid suspicion and policing, disputatiousness and agression, greed and display of power, group A against group B and most of it happens, and that's the deplorable part, 'in the name of god'.

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I hate to say this in this topic as I didn't intend to, it rightfully belongs in Killbots topic.... but to say it in the other topic I don't want to get people confused.... so here I go anyway....

 

me as I made it clear I believe in a god.... as munky was saying science is based on proof.... my base of belief is based on proof, proof in the possibility of a god(not saying there is one... that side of it is hope).... again I didn't want nor intended to say this here in this topic but yeah I want to quickly explain this side for me anyway... yes likely you heard similar or whatever.... but here I go non the less.... me I wasn't born in Fatima but my dad along with his parents and so on were all born raised Fatima and all.... so I have deep roots in Portugal and deep enough that I distantly am proof of a questionably unexplainable phenomenon if you will... what happened can be questionable on the point of if a god exists or what.... but non the less it gives some reason to believe in something..... to read the pop culture/church version of what happen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracle_O..._Lady_Of_Fatima however I have not to distant relatives that witnessed some of the documented things and some of the undocumented things and its part of the reason why my grandfather was the caretaker of the biggest church in Portugal....

 

anyway what I know goes to say 2-3 things churches groups are full of it too.... and saints are human..... but there is no question in alot of the impossibilities ability to occur:P so I myself cannot say there is nothing but I won't say I know what is god.....

 

you don't have to believe me cause I don't even know but we'll all see eventually what is fate:) though its likely I believe to be somewhat unexpected for a lot of it is clearly to me warped

 

Killbot as for the church thing... I dunno either..... I don't go to no church, am not part of a church or being pay'd off by one:P...

 

if you want though you could pretend I'm spying on you though;) wink wink;)... jk's

Edited by djpc47
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It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in God, as long as your a good person. Different beliefs will tell you to do different things--Judaism tells you to fix the world, Islam tells you to make the world better and beatiful and strive for what is right (I think, not completely sure), etc. As long as you don't become totally extremist about religion and kill people over it, religion is beautiful. It is a guide to doing better things, that's how I look at it.

 

Atheism is perfectly fine in my opinion. I'm not atheist, but I can certainly see your point of view. In many ways you're being independent and going with what you truly believe, not what billions of other people have forced upon you, because only a very small percentage of the world is atheist. As long as you continue to lead a good and productive life, atheism is fine.

 

You don't have to look at religion as some crazy thing with some boss guy telling everyone what to do. It is really a guide to how you should live life. A guide added upon over thousands of years by the wisest men/women in history. So you can follow a probably reliable guide to life, or you can go with your own ideas. As long as you do the right thing, it doesn't really matter.

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lol... its not so much that atheists beleive in atheism, its more of a LACK of beleif in God.

 

i dont beleive in God for the same reason I dont beleive in pixies, fairies, elves or trolls*.

*(despite the large number of trolls living in our forums... they dont count :))

 

Not believing in something is still believing in something (or in this case, nothing)

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Not believing in something is still believing in something (or in this case, nothing)

 

Hmm.. im not sure about that one. So you're saying a lack of beleif in the pink elephant is the same as a beleif in NO pink elephant?

 

Could be... :thumbsup_anim:

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It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in God, as long as your a good person.

 

Great! :rolleyes:

 

This is one of the wisest things that have ever been said in these God/Jesus threads.

 

Unfortunately many of the people who believe in a Personal God are among the worst hypocrites in the world.

Look at the present Pope if you don't believe me: he is against everything, but nobody understands which positive values he stands for.

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I don't believe in god simply because you can't prove he (edit: or SHE) exists.

 

If I told you there was a giant meatball monster, would you believe me simply because you can't disprove it?

 

:)

Edited by Ramm
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