Lkr Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 http://www.buzzbums.com/buzz/norway-declares-itunes-illegal After reading that all I can say is wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark4181 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 i hate to say it, but they do have a few points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtraa Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Stupid. Simply stupid. Why blame iTunes? Apple was forced to put DRM into iTunes because the MusicIndustry asked for it. So it is the wrong address. If they stop iTunes, it wll get even worse. Imagine a Microsoft music portal with DRM. Would be even harder to stop and even more worse for the user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 this is great. i hate limitations like that in any software or hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 This saga has been going on forever. Search Macuser for it and you'll find out it goes back at least a few months. And btw, limitations are not inherently evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbz Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Let business be business god dammit! And yes, that means Microcrap too. freaking europe just doesn't get that. I'm so angry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prasys Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Huh.....what ? If you dont put DRM {censored} = RIAA and those so-called 'We are the authorities' will come up with some {censored} statements such as' p2p to be blamed' anad they will hunt all p2pers If you put DRM {censored} = This what you'll get.... I Still dont understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Like The Wind Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) Let business be business god dammit! And yes, that means Microcrap too.freaking europe just doesn't get that. I'm so angry... Respect laws of another nation when you go to do buisness or be gone! I have no sympathy for apple in this situation. I can only hope that the USA bans the drm festering things entirely. However I must say your points are a bit disturbing. Look back to the Standard Oil and various things throughout history when buisness was allowed to be buisness. Kinda insane if you are proposing just to allow all this to be ohh the cost of doing buisness survival of the fittest. Stupid. Simply stupid. Why blame iTunes? Apple was forced to put DRM into iTunes because the MusicIndustry asked for it. So it is the wrong address. If they stop iTunes, it wll get even worse. Imagine a Microsoft music portal with DRM. Would be even harder to stop and even more worse for the user. Did you even read the story? It has to do with iTunes being CLOSED not open. If apple licenced fairplay no big deal get off it. its all about platform locking. Edited January 30, 2007 by SlicerDicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 There is a difference between being successful and being anticompetitive. How did Norway prove that what Apple is doing is anticompetitive as opposed to just being successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabear Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 By not allowing songs from itunes being played on players from other companies than apple, it sure is anticompetitive.. didn't read the article though, but germany and frace joined this too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Like The Wind Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) There is a difference between being successful and being anticompetitive. How did Norway prove that what Apple is doing is anticompetitive as opposed to just being successful? Its nice to be objective of a nations laws when you do not live there. It was illegal it was banned plain and simple. AFAIK it was the platform locking that was illegal. And that is fully understandable they want _innovation_ not locked platforms. When you can see unlocked platforms there is true innovation... I have to say 90% of apple's ideas were taken from Linux, BSD and so forth. Its just a blatent ripoff there is no innovation IMO in apple or microsoft. They just all copy but to that end I have to say that Apple copy's the ideas and makes it usable thats the difference. Innovation on Linux is the bar that only Apple and Microsoft could wish to hit. This comes from a open platform without restriction that can lead to anything. Edited January 30, 2007 by SlicerDicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 So it was illegal because it was successful then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Like The Wind Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 So it was illegal because it was successful then? No because if platform lock. Locking to apples platform and their platform only is illegal in norway. If they licenced fairplay no foulplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 OK, thank you (finally) for the information. You know, it would have been easier to just say that instead of going off on a "Linux is superior" rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Like The Wind Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) OK, thank you (finally) for the information. You know, it would have been easier to just say that instead of going off on a "Linux is superior" rant. I was not ranting that linux is superior I actually am quite fond of apple and OSX. I think that apple makes it easy to use in a clean package having said that it makes me really mad when I go to find things. Example "slocate-2.7-r8" I run in linux. However I have no idea what version is running in OSX. Another example with that same program. /usr/bin/updatedb <- Linux /usr/libexec/locate.updatedb <- OSX Now I know a simple 'ln -s /usr/libexec/locate.updatedb /usr/bin/updatedb' will do just fine to symlink it to where I need but why does apple have to make things so hard to use? I can point out 100's of examples that make me want to put my head through a wall trying to figure out these things. I guess this is why I still prefer linux over OSX is cause things are mighty easy for me to use in Linux. At anyrate I like OSX alot for a simple to use system that is not for anything overly complex however if I want to do really nifty things I have to do it in linux as OSX is just too damn difficult to use for those things due to the way apple layed it out. This stifles innovation in the sense that it makes it very hard to make things crossplatform as everything is in a different place so "special bus" stuff has to be written for OSX. Although I dont even want to go into Windows ;-) that would get me banned OSX is mild by comparison hehe EDIT: Ok I dont even think mild is it.. think ultra mild like a virgina slim vs a chest buster palmal smoke Edited January 30, 2007 by SlicerDicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret-Simpson Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Actually, I think it was a "Pure Unix is superior" rant and it's bollocks. I for one have my niggles with OS X, mostly the compatibilty and limited amounts of configuration without kernel and script hacking. But it's the same for any other UNIX, and Apple do a better job than most. On this desk alone is a Slackware 10.2 box, a Solaris 8 workstation, and my Tablet (On which OS X is the last partition as windows committed suicide this morning) and the winner in my eyes is OS X. Not only is the OS innovative, in the use of Aqua and the dock. . . (Original Apple GUI Hybridised with CDE = ) but in the hardware calls and underlying UNIX implementation. It's why OS X toasts Windows for speed: Nearly everything is correctly accelerated. None of my other UNIX systems do that. Beryl comes close, but sabayon wouldn't even boot on my systems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semthex Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 DRM is customer's pain. It limits the freedom to do with things you paid as you wish and should be abolished. The DRM principle is worse as the RIAA mafia and their friends who demanded it. As a customer I don't want to let them tell me what I have to do with my stuff. As we fight to get OSX to run on our whiteboxes, I don't understand why there is anyone here who trys to defand DRM. This is like traveling the one route and a second too. DRM, so called other "rights managment systems", "trusted computing" as well as "copy protection" scemes and all the other {censored} never will be secure, they only make us legit customers to have trouble. I still hope there will be once some day of change with all these industry pushed and only money oriented staff and they will curse the day they invented it. As much I like Apple as much I hate the mafia methods of the industry they work with. I want the freedom to use my stuff as I wish, as well as I want the freedom to speech about things which limit me to do so. God if there will be ever a law like DMCA in my country I will leave. DRM ftl.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Like The Wind Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 DRM is customer's pain. It limits the freedom to do with things you paid as you wish and should be abolished. The DRM principle is worse as the RIAA mafia and their friends who demanded it..... <snipped rest out to make it not huge> I dont know how to say it better than that honestly. I honestly do hate the DMCA and what it does I mean from everything to DRM in music, movies and even the "spyware in cars" I think its absolutely insane to have these things... I cannot disable the car from recording everything I do that could be used against me later? Umm wow no thanks /me hugs his older car. Regardless DRM is pure evil of the kinda that makes it so you buy something but do not own it. Never will you own it not ever. The only way to actually own something in full unrestricted form is to break the DRM and break the law in USA. I find this unacceptable that common citizens become criminals for wanting to put that "CDROM" music on ipod? dont you find this abit insane? Where does the madness stop? Where does the line get drawn in the sand? I would really like to know cause as what I would consider here most of you are nerds... How much can nerds take here before they asplode and lose it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Why shouldn't business have the right to do whatever it wants to so long as it harms nobody? If you don't like what a business is doing, then don't buy it's products. More regulation just causes anger from all sides and everybody strives to find loopholes first. That's why we have so many ridiculous, restrictive laws in today's society (both for business and individuals) but no less crime. I'm sure for 99.99% of consumers, the current setup with DRM and iPod lock-ins is perfectly acceptable. If it weren't, people simply wouldn't buy from the iTunes store. The arguments over the merits or lack thereof that the iTunes store in places like here and on Slashdot are simply trivial flamewars between geeks like us. Several people here have made a good point which has been ignored by the ranting masses; It's not that Apple chooses DRM, it's that the music industry simply wouldn't allow their music to be licensed without it, however moronic and unsuccessful at achieving its targets DRM may be. If that were the case, there simply wouldn't be an iTunes store. Fine, if that suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm one of those that things Apple's DRM is rather lenient. Under it, I can put the (unchanged) music on five computers (and follow the link in my sig if that isn't enough for you). You can throw it onto an unlimited number of iPods. You can burn an audio CD (with no DRM) and then reimport them if you wish (with no DRM). While I dislike DRM's also, not all DRM's are inherently evil and horrible. Some are rather stupid (i.e. put in a serial number from seriall.com and you get QuickTime Pro and it won't ever tell you have a stolen serial) and some, like Adobe are just evil (it will phone home every time to say your version is good). As for putting a CD on an iPod, yeah, that gets pretty stupid. Some, like Celine Dion, couldn't even be imported onto an iMac G4 without going through the AppleCare process (it wouldn't eject). Sony installed a rootkit in Windows to tell them you're doing something. That kind of intrusion I can't agree with, but saying that it is all evil is like saying you don't want the police patrolling in front of your house because the crack hole down the road got busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhai Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Some facts; iTunes is not per law illegal in norway. It have to go to court before that can happen. But the consumers right advisory (which is the recommending and guidelining authority for the consumers in norway) will take this case to court unless apple make their files playable on other devices than apples own. I.e. creative, microsoft, sony, mobile phones etc. I think this is I hope a step towards building down the wall of DRM's, activations and other measures businesses make to make money without selling anything. In the future you as an individual will not own anything, just a limited right to use appliances. Of course if you see this as a rightful business practice then i don't mind. But find your isolated corner of the world to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Again, not all DRM's are necessarily evil. If you believe something is 100% evil, you are an extremist. If you think something is 100% pure, you are also an extremist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semthex Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 DRM of any kind was designed to force customers into a usage sceme and prohibit them from using legal obtained articles as they wish to use them. And yes, a technic designed for such a manner is evil, with no exceptions. You cut down customer rights, there is no other application for DRM. Don't call people extremist just because they share another opinion on this "technic" as you. DRM is DRM if it is implemented like {censored} or not. It's existance and use show a lot on the thinking of this society, or the people who try to control me. There is no such thing like fairness in todays customer business any more, we were made to cunsume zombies buying everythign they want, no matter how {censored} it is. Everything gets controlled just for the well beeing of a market which already should have regulated itself. There is so much music out there not under the control of the RIAA already that the busniss begans to brick. But who is responsible for the horror of bad income there? It's the customer. So they call the world pirates, resent bogus numbers of money they loose and force ppl into use technics like DRM. DRM is a product of the broken view of the law making and industrial part of this society, no more no less. It is a perverted version of the materialized which to controll and force customers to a stright path of maximum money. It's no longer, "you buy it, you own it", it has become "you buy it, they still own it, and maybe they let you use it a bit". I can only hope customer will notice over the time what has been done to them and go the only way the responsible people will understand, the way of a boycott. It already is in the beginning, but still they keep on crying on pirates, but their day will hoepfully come, if there is no more possibility but to admit they broken their own business. just my Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Creator Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 wholly {censored}! that sucks for all you norweegan people but thank god i am canadain! canadians rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublove Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 At the end of the day the Norwegian government has just crippled consumer choice. Apple is only doing what it can following rules set down by the music industry. Remember that un-digitaly protected music downloads are illegal. So what are Norwegians going to do now? Buy CD's at a higher price I suppose. Fair enough. Apple bothered to make the iPod and they bothered to set up the iTunes store. In compliance with what the music industry asked for. Why should they make it work on every other competitors device? Also I use my ipod in my car connected to my Pioneer iPod interface. Surely then Pioneer should be told to produce an interface for every other damn portable mp3 player because that's only fair too. That would cost them millions in research and manufacture which would be bad for them, so surely the only solution is for them to stop making an iPod interface. Yeah right. These whiners need to look at the bigger picture - The music industry and stop trying to cripple companies doing the best they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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