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#1
learning_bird

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MacBidouille.com, who was the first great Mac oriented site to report on August 10th the successful efforts of getting OSXx86 for all of us, received a letter from Apple lawyers to delete the links to videos they had showing an intel laptop booting Mac OS X x86, which they did.

Is Apple awakening or is just a small gesture to show they tried to combat the spreading of OSXx86, although they're delighted with this? What do you think?

Links:
www.macbidouille.com ( french )
www.hardmac.com ( the english version site which still doesn't has the news )

#2
HotShot

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I think we had better count our blessings that they didn't start with us.

Although it is kind of strage they didn't go straight for our jugular. DMCA, violated, not violated; whatever. Doesn't matter if we did anything illegal or not, if Apple wants us to go down, we'd go down hard. Legal debt would have us eating Ramen noodles, and being thankful we could afford them.

#3
learning_bird

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I think we had better count our blessings that they didn't start with us.

Although it is kind of strage they didn't go straight for our jugular.  DMCA, violated, not violated; whatever.  Doesn't matter if we did anything illegal or not, if Apple wants us to go down, we'd go down hard.  Legal debt would have us eating Ramen noodles, and being thankful we could afford them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Precisely!

Why did they menaced MacBidouille, that just reported the facts and had these small videos, and didn't chased in 1 or 2 days osx86project.org and concretesurf.co.nz, which are the two sites concentrating all the real action?

Is it for being more visible to the Mac community? And why did the US sites that echoed MacBidouille news didn't received such letters?

Are they thinking that shutting big Mac sites mouths will keep the Mac and Windows users in ignorance?

#4
bofors

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Translated by Google:

The fact that certain people succeeded in circumventing with facility protections that APPLE had implemented in the version of Mac OS X for X86 had a significant repercussion. And if one were not in full August, it would have been still much more significant, because let us not mislead there we, this day there an earthquake struck Cupertino.
What arrived to them is probably the most serious thing, with share perhaps that the iPod passes from mode.

Why is this so serious?
To start, which arrived is irremediable. Though makes APPLE now, this pre-version can turn on many PC And what is valid now, will be it still as long as the prototypes of MacIntel will be in circulation. Admittedly, APPLE could propose rubber patches able to stop the holes but those which had illegally versions of OS X X86 beta will not have the silly thing to install them while others will have more certainly the intelligence to circumvent them. Since antiquity, the proof was brought that an ultimate shield always finds a weapon ultimate able to bore it. A half century of data processing did not contradict this proverb. Let us take for example FairPlay protection of the iTMS. It is for a long time contournable, of the software making it possible to clean the bought pieces of any trace of DRM. But there it is not really serious. Only the majors hold with this protection. And APPLE fights for their good pleasure. But the "cleaned" pieces were already bought, knowing in any event that those which did not want to buy them needed only hardly more than time to go to pirate them on networks P2P.
But for OS X X86, it is different. With each version which will be pirated and installed on a PC, APPLE will potentially lose (and only potentially) the sale not only of one licence OS X, but especially of a machine. It is not there only one question of money, but especially of shares of market which will not be allotted to Mac.
In this case, the dream to take again 10% of PDM is likely to move away and APPLE can just as easily gain some points nevertheless, that to lose some, if faithful customers prefer to assemble them even their machine.

But what can make APPLE?
To reconsider the decision behind to pass to INTEL is not possible, but if it would have given pleasure with some. APPLE thus will have to take again its copy on protections of Mac OS X and its locking so that it boote only on its machines. This can be done durably only while significantly deviating from the current standards x86, sufficiently so that a simple emulator does not come to break the building.
But in the short run, the battle is lost, which was made perhaps does not demolish. It does not remain to them whereas a solution, to deny the obviousness. It is what they started to do by sending this night to us an incredibly aggressive mall of APPLE Legal enjoignant us to withdraw the vidos showing a PC booter under OS X.
We withdrew them, although we thought that to want to kill the messenger will change nothing with the contents bad news. This mall is in any case a proof of faintness currently felt with Cupertino which releases its lawyers only when that is badly.
However, when we had published these vidos, we did nothing but apply our policy which is to bring evidence of what one reports, history not to be described as site of rumour without giving the least bond to remake the same thing. Because of course, to install OS X X86 on a PC is illegal and violates laws of Copyright as well as NDA as signed the tenants of Mac INTEL. However the policy of Macbidouille about the hacking is always also inflexible.
But it is not new, APPLE does not like the honest speech of Macbidouille. However, not question to like APPLE to play like too many of other sites in the "MacPravda", applauding when the light ignites, and making silence when the head poses a finger on the mouth.
If as the message under hears, APPLE forces us to cease our activities, we do it, with the memory to have lived a formidable adventure with all our readers.
But it is not yet on the agenda. Under heard was perhaps only one formula of rhetoric added to give weight to the injunction. The lawyers who keep the shop during the summer must be unaware of that we would have also withdrawn the vidos with a message stripped of aggressiveness.

http://www.macbidoui...05-08-17/#11401

#5
bofors

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Why did they menaced MacBidouille, that just reported the facts and had these small videos, and didn't chased in 1 or 2 days osx86project.org and concretesurf.co.nz, which are the two sites concentrating all the real action?


At this point, we do not know if the main OSx86 sites have also been contacted by Apple Legal or not. It may be that Apple is planning more serious legal action here.

#6
learning_bird

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Although with the usual mistakes made by automatic translations. it's reasonably correct and I think english speaking people can understand the meaning.

#7
learning_bird

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At this point, we do not know if the main OSx86 sites have also been contacted by Apple Legal or not.  It may be that Apple is planning more serious legal action here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hope not!

These have been such an exciting Summer days.

#8
yellowbkpk

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I hope that the osx86project.org administrators are backing up the database behind the wiki and the boards every day and "accidentally leaking" the data out onto the net. Get this info out there so it stays out there!

#9
zhLilDoggi

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Pwned pwned and pwned! Apple shouldn't have a reason to go after us (unless some freaking idiot posts a video or something).

#10
bossa-nova

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Anyway, being typical French, they quickly surrendered and retired to eat crepes.


thank god the americans are all brave!
they throw atomic bombs and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in one second, they invade countries for oil and kill there thousands of innocent people, etc. etc. etc...

yes, the french are cowards!
B)

#11
learning_bird

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Hardmac.com ( MacBidouille's english site ) now has the translation of the morning news:

"Is Apple scared?

The fact that some users have successfully hacked Apple protections on MacOSX x86 to make it running on any PC and not only on Apple-certified SDK PC, has been well discussed, commented, and its impact would have been larger if it did not happen during holidays season; but for sure it was a real earthquake at Cupertino. It might be the most important problem they have to face, despite the hypothetic slow down of iPod sales.

Why is it so bad?
First, it was obvious that some users will have access to OS x86 without having signed a NDA with Apple; so they have tried to make it running on a standard PC, at the beginning with a configuration as close as the Apple SDK, then after developing patches and hacks on any PC. So, having OSX x86 running on any PC was something that will by definition happen, it was only a matter of time. Apple's DRM on OS x86 were rather "lite", so patching OSX x86 was probably more intended to try to make it running on any PC. Indeed, since the beginning of humanity, all protections have always been challenged and at the end someone always successfully found a way to bypass them. It was true for Troy; it is true today for Apple. Trying to find a way to bypass a protection is always an challenging intellectual work, it can be consider beneficial, when scientist try to find ways to cure a disease, it might be consider negative when one hacker unlock a software. The same way for Apple and iTMS: it is relatively easy to erase DRM associated with tracks originating from the iTMS, Apple does not really care, whereas Music Majors do; so as a consequence Apple keeps updating iTunes to prevent such phenomenon while knowing it will be working only for a short time. But Apple has to do it otherwise Music Majors will for sure complain and start legal actions.
But for MacOSX, it is different. Indeed, for every OSX version hacked and installed on a PC it will be for Apple one lost OSX license, and potentially a Mac computer not sold. And it is not only about the money, it is also related to also market share. Indeed, the goal to reach 10% computer market share will never be reach on hardware sales basis if OSX x86 can easily be patches to run on any PC, even though it turns to be true on the number of OSX-based running computers.

What can Apple do?
Cancel its decision to switch to Intel is not possible, and will not solve the mid-term future. No, Apple has to re-think its protections both on OSX but also on the hardware part. To achieve such a dual DRM based both of software and hardware protections, Apple has to develop a system quite different from todays standards to avoid any PC assembling companies to copy it.
But at mid-term it will not be the ultimate solution, since with time someone will find a way to bypass this dual DRM system. The only limitation will be the price of such a hack, and will it be worthwhile with Apple MacIntel computers, even though they will be a bit more expensive than equivalent PCs.
There is another solution, the one current chosen by Apple: deny the reality.
This is exactly what Apple Legal has started to do last night (Central Europe time) by sending us an amazingly aggressive email asking for the immediate removal of all links to the videos showing OSX x86 booting from non-Apple certified SDK PC.
We have removed the requested links, but we deeply think that it will not change anything regarding the problem affecting Cupertino. Indeed, Apple is using its legal department only when things go really wrong.
The video that we have published was only posted online to prove our comments and news, and to avoid to be considered as a Mac-dedicated rumor site. We did not provide any link to website describing the procedure and so on. Because it is also clear for us that installing OSX x86 on a non-certified Apple SDK PC is illegal, both regarding the Copyright and the NDA signed by developers. We have never supported illegal action and we will not change our point of view on this topic. However we have also reported and published what we think might be important to know for Mac users, and we know that Apple did/does always like it. We are not a "Mac Pravda" website, only following Apple, applauding and being silent when asked for.
If we are force to stop our activities on the net, as mentioned as a possibility by the Apple Legal message, we will do it of course; but we will remember to have enjoyed a nice adventure with our readers.
But it will not happen today, we think that such message from Apple lawyers in action during holiday season was probably a standard legal message, otherwise they should have known that we would have removed all requested links the same way if we would have received an non-aggressive email from Apple Legal. In addition, they would have avoided such news today."

#12
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thank god the americans are all brave!
they throw atomic bombs and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in one second, they invade countries for oil and kill there thousands of innocent people, etc. etc. etc...

yes, the french are cowards!
:rolleyes:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes, because WWII is so recent and our oil prices are really falling with all that oil we are stealing, Lol. At least you agree that the french are cowards. As to the news on the legal letter sent, it makes sense to go after the people who are showing through videos, that all of the talk and speculation actually leads to something. Most people arent convinced until they see a video of a Viao running OSX that it will actually work. Even then many are still not convinced. I am sure apple will throw several more letters around to various sites including this one, but i doubt they will do anything with it. This whole pirating process is a free Beta test for them to gauge interest as well as have thousands of programmers fix up their operating system to work on most computers. If interest is high, they might consider retailing the OS for the general public.

#13
Wiremeister

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Hmpfffff, all the buzz created around a website that is not even worth it. Perhaps maybe you need to know some interesting things about this website that calls itself a victim :

- How convenient, the big mean Apple sends a letter, let's complain all around the Web and make sure everybody knows about us, that will boost our trafic and even more the huge ego of the site sole owner, a guy that loves that and that you must imagine as Uncle Scrooge diving in money earned from... Apple (yes, their main source of revenues comes directly from the Apple Store affiliate program, yes...)

- They are know for ripping informations from smaller sites, not giving sources or, when there are complains, putting news from other big sites (but never conveniently to english sites or PC sites that got their sources from someone else's) so at least nobody talks about their "competitors" (they think that they are in a Mac world where all french speaking Mac sites are threatening them).

- Do you see how they treat the other mac sites of "MacPravda" ? Even if it's true that some of them are doing propaganda for Apple, what's the big deal. Most of those sites are made from people that have a passion from Apple and you should be thankful, that's what keeps the mac community going and that's why they are here today. How unconfident can they be to insult the whole Mac community like that.

- When you publish a comment that don't please them (because it's so true) either on their forums or on their news, it's immediatly erased by their moderators, you will never or hardly find any bad comments on their site. Who was complaining about Apple's attitude ?

- Around every news that could be a tad sensitive (to their standards which of course are really low) they must add a comment likd "and of course, dont be surprise if Apple put down this news" or "Reminder to Apple, we are just doing our journalistic work, you can't say anything about that". Beurk, makes me wanna puke.

- How surprised can they be getting a mail like that from Apple ? They used to publish classified informations in the past. They are under the scope of Apple so why all the fuss, it's normal, don't you get it ?

And of course, their stupid attitude gives a bad image about the country, how bad can that be ?

Yes, I sound bitter about this site but let the truth came out. I used to be a reader of this site, posted heavily on the forums. Once, I had the "guts" to post a long text on the forums explaining how I thought Apple was doing an excellent job with the iPod and my thoughts about how this would affect the mac world, putting on some questions on their strategy, ... . I got flamed by the members, got insults from the moderators, banned and when I dared to complaint to the site owner we got a heave email exchange where it was impossible to voice my opinion.

Those were extreme measures for someone that just had something to say but this gives you the light on how a "victim" is managed, how they treat their readers, the Mac community and reveals what is their communication strategy.

#14
Erhnam

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Hmpfffff, all the buzz created around a website that is not even worth it. Perhaps maybe you need to know some interesting things about this website that calls itself a victim :

- How convenient, the big mean Apple sends a letter, let's complain all around the Web and make sure everybody knows about us, that will boost our trafic and even more the huge ego of the site sole owner, a guy that loves that and that you must imagine as Uncle Scrooge diving in money earned from... Apple (yes, their main source of revenues comes directly from the Apple Store affiliate program, yes...)

- They are know for ripping informations from smaller sites, not giving sources or, when there are complains, putting news from other big sites (but never conveniently to english sites or PC sites that got their sources from someone else's) so at least nobody talks about their "competitors" (they think that they are in a Mac world where all french speaking Mac sites are threatening them).

- Do you see how they treat the other mac sites of "MacPravda" ? Even if it's true that some of them are doing propaganda for Apple, what's the big deal. Most of those sites are made from people that have a passion from Apple and you should be thankful, that's what keeps the mac community going and that's why they are here today. How unconfident can they be to insult the whole Mac community like that.

- When you publish a comment that don't please them (because it's so true) either on their forums or on their news, it's immediatly erased by their moderators, you will never or hardly find any bad comments on their site. Who was complaining about Apple's attitude ?

- Around every news that could be a tad sensitive (to their standards which of course are really low) they must add a comment likd "and of course, dont be surprise if Apple put down this news" or "Reminder to Apple, we are just doing our journalistic work, you can't say anything about that". Beurk, makes me wanna puke.

- How surprised can they be getting a mail like that from Apple ? They used to publish classified informations in the past. They are under the scope of Apple so why all the fuss, it's normal, don't you get it ?

And of course, their stupid attitude gives a bad image about the country, how bad can that be ?

Yes, I sound bitter about this site but let the truth came out. I used to be a reader of this site, posted heavily on the forums. Once, I had the "guts" to post a long text on the forums explaining how I thought Apple was doing an excellent job with the iPod and my thoughts about how this would affect the mac world, putting on some questions on their strategy, ... . I got flamed by the members, got insults from the moderators, banned and when I dared to complaint to the site owner we got a heave email exchange where it was impossible to voice my opinion.

Those were extreme measures for someone that just had something to say but this gives you the light on how a "victim" is managed, how they treat their readers, the Mac community and reveals what is their communication strategy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I also got an e-mail and had to take down my site :P

#15
dendave

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  At least you agree that the french are cowards. 



Why don't you come on over and find out just how coward the french are...

Macbidouille has made very clear in their post why they took it down. They also made clear they would have taken it down after a friendly call or note. Anyone working on this kind of project understands the risk no? And you cannot really expect Apple to just sit their and go "oh well, better find something else to do" .


In my opinion this hack is cute for the sake of it being possible but for the rest it is a total waste of time.

#16
Saxo

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I would like all of you, to not paying too much attention to Lionel from that website... he's a bit stupid sometimes.

I hople you'll understand this:

http://www.id-clik.c...15&id_secteur=1


----------------

And most of the guys who are on the macbidouille's forum are not better.

#17
DaffyDuck

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Why did they menaced MacBidouille, that just reported the facts and had these small videos, and didn't chased in 1 or 2 days osx86project.org and concretesurf.co.nz, which are the two sites concentrating all the real action?


While we're helpfully providing pointers and links to Apple Legal, how about also pointing them to sites like:

http://www.uneasysil...an-ordinary-pc/

Point is, MacBidouille is not only a known site (to Apple), but also the site that first reported on this (with videos), and as such will be Apple's first target. Furthermore, they *did* link to actual videos that displayed material protected by Apple licenses and contracts - and as such, the display and availability of such materials made them a target.

Subsequently, I would not be surprised to see other sites (in chronology of publication of such videos, screenshots, or other protected materials), received similar legal reminders. Apple is *required* to proceed in such manner, if they hope to present themselves as making an effort to protect their intellectual property -- if they fail to puruse such legal steps, they open themselves up to provide precendence for circumventing their legally stated goals.

That being said, it is NOT a big step to go from claiming videos and images are in violation, to claiming the same about links to patches and downloads (not to mention the download sites themselves), which technically also places the osx86project's wiki at risk as a target. Technically, any instructions describing circumvention fall under a violation of the DMCA.

Either way, as pointed out in another thread, this should not have come as any surprise.

Oh, and before you get all funny about the French instinctively surrendering and eating crpes (as funny as that was), I have a feeling this site will roll over faster than a $2 whore, if it were to receive such a legal notice.

#18
room309

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Oh, and before you get all funny about the French instinctively surrendering and eating crpes (as funny as that was), I have a feeling this site will roll over faster than a $2 whore, if it were to receive such a legal notice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I have to agree on this, being not french (but belgian).
Although it is reasonably funny, your remark was quite overly simplifying.
In other words, it doesn't help getting rid of pre-conceived opinions that pollute the airwaves and the bandwitdth nowadays.

Anyway, like every other belgian out here, i'm on my may to eating fries, chocolate and wafles, drinking gallons of tasty beers, urinating naked and hiding like a "typical" scared sh*tless European. That way I may get as fat and unaware as an average american, fingers crossed.

(Getting my point now?)

No hard feelings, and good luck.

JT

#19
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I don't see how all these racist remarks and dragging up of ancient {censored} like WW2 are in the slightest bit constructive or relevant to the discussion. I would've issued suspensions by now...
I
And that's coming from a Brit...

As for the matter at hand, I'd say the maintainers of this website ought to be wary. I remember when MacTKA got sued bigtime for leaking information about the Tiger pre-release... Apple lawyers have no mercy. Just a heads up :P It might be better to move to an IRC channel.

#20
learning_bird

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I don't see how all these racist remarks and dragging up of ancient {censored} like WW2 are in the slightest bit constructive or relevant to the discussion.  I would've issued suspensions by now...
I
And that's coming from a Brit...

As for the matter at hand, I'd say the maintainers of this website ought to be wary.  I remember when MacTKA got sued bigtime for leaking information about the Tiger pre-release... Apple lawyers have no mercy.  Just a heads up :P  It might be better to move to an IRC channel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you, Cloudane. Let's try to keep on-topic.

Give us your thoughts and feelings about Apple (re)actions and how to defend from them and at the same time maintaining the development of a free OSXx86.





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