CPU, Memory, Video Card?

[jgrimes80]

Quick summary, I'm a ME currently using Solidworks, PTC, and UGS systems...

 

For a very long time I've been using a P4 2.4GHz w/ a Raedon 8500 (64MB) workstation... (not much of a workstation anymore)

 

Because of my not-so-great workstation, I'm proned to use very low resolution, scrapping all excessive assembly loading and completely forgetting about doing any renderings. Strictly export and part/sub-asm drawings...

 

 

 

Unfortunately, times change as most of my clients now want demo'd renderings and snapshots for business proposals and such.... things as simple as shown take "forever" to do even on my MBP under XP....

PICTURE:

 

 

 

MOVIE:

spring_vid.avi

 

 

Now, my question... since no one I seem to come in contact with has a clear answer as to what I need... What should I be looking at?

[wow]

If you mad that drawing yoursefl, great job!!!

 

Important question is here, how much money are you willing to spent?

[jgrimes80]

Thanks for the reply... I can't believe I can't get a straight answer from anyone... they all say "it varies"

 

 

10k (USD) is my MAX budget (30" Monitor included)...

 

I understand I need a workstation and workstations aren't cheap, but I don't know what components to invest in.

 

Will a Core 2 Duo/Extreme suffice but need an FX 5500... Woodcrest? Quad-core? 1? 2?

 

Do I need a FireGL or will a x1900 suffice... I'm a CADD man, not a computer guy.

 

 

and another question... when it comes to 64-bit PC, do you just need a compatible CPU? So say I got a XP 32-bit C2D machine... can I but XP x64 on it?

Edited December 27, 2006 by jgrimes80

[Gorosh]

You don't need nor FireGL nor Quadro cards. They won't help your render speeds, they'll mainly help your viewport manipulation, and at that price those cards are too expensive for home user / semi pro. You'll benefit more if you save that money, and invest part of it into other components (more ram, better proccesor, faster hard disk etc.). You don't even need X1900, X1650 XT will be just fine.

 

I'm not sure how good are those applications at utilizing multi-cores, but I guess Quad core, but even Core 2 Duo would suffice (new Intel Quad processor are basicaly nothing more than two C2D processor jammed together). I'd recommmend either C2D / Quad ore new XEon based system, with lots of ram.

[wow]

Thanks for the reply... I can't believe I can't get a straight answer from anyone... they all say "it varies"

10k (USD) is my MAX budget (30" Monitor included)...

 

I understand I need a workstation and workstations aren't cheap, but I don't know what components to invest in.

 

Will a Core 2 Duo/Extreme suffice but need an FX 5500... Woodcrest? Quad-core? 1? 2?

 

Do I need a FireGL or will a x1900 suffice... I'm a CADD man, not a computer guy.

and another question... when it comes to 64-bit PC, do you just need a compatible CPU? So say I got a XP 32-bit C2D machine... can I but XP x64 on it?

Intresting case. A few years back i read some reviews from experts. Conclusion the pro opengl card where worth their money even if the look almost the same consument hardware. Why: because the consumer cards where more made for rendering textures (games) and not lots of 3d triangels. Also the drivers were finetuned and had lesser errors on screen when zooming in. Ok that was then and now both sides have advanced. I think it still stays the same, if a $2000 game machine could perform as a 10.000 workstation nobody would buy a workstation.

 

I dont know the prices of workstations. But if you could afford one i would buy one. its work not a hobby, time is money here.

 

If not affordable then go for what you can afford. The 30 inch screen , the fastest (multi)core cpu you can affort. But watch it, sometime the fastest one cost 60% more and is only 6% faster (3,2ghz instead of 3.05ghz) then i would take the one before it and invest the money in other components like more memory or faster video. If money left is a professionel and solidworks supported opengl card else standard 3d vidcard

 

ps x64 windows dont run on 32 bit cpu's. oh core2duo has some 64 bit extensions but is not 100% 64bit, i am not sure i they run xp 64bit.

 

Also some usefull reading

http://manufacturing.cadalyst.com/manufact...l.jsp?id=125024

Edited December 27, 2006 by wow

[asap18]

Alright lets break it down.

 

Quad Core 2.66 Ghzx4 -1,199

Motherboard 975xbx2 -259.99

4 GB RAM DDR800 (2x2 GB) 514.99

Any Case- $150-200

500 GB Hard Drive -$170

Power Supply -$150

Zalman CPU Fan(intels suck) $50

Nvidia 8800 GTS (more vram should help rendering)-$410

Apple Cinema 30" -$2000

 

 

So overall, for probably $5000 you can have one of the fastest computers out there that will definitely last you 5-6 years and the apple display. These were the prices from newegg.

[jgrimes80]

Well I appreciate the replies... I FINALLY got some helpful advice from Solidworks (great customer service by the way). Was even able to schedule a meeting with a rep to help me buy what I need. BTW, I've been an on-staff consultant for nearly a decade and I'd hate to think I'm garnered as "semi-pro."

 

So far:

 

In regards to the graphics card, I was informed that I should consider getting at least a "mid-range" with at least 512MB of memory (x16-- Pro(?) was mentioned - nice call-) and for the ultimate large assemblies @ high resolution experience I should consider 2x FX3500 or 2x FX4500. Apparently the FX5500 is a "absurdly priced" for minor gains and should not be even considered.

 

Memory; because I'm going 32-bit for now... I've been told to max this out to 2x2GB for now

 

CPU; wasn't discussed at all... he reared off and started talking about Solidwork's advantages when using x64 because I mentioned "future-proof"

 

My meeting is on Friday, I'll keep you guy posted... and you guys can keep me from being suckered

 

 

Still, @ least one question remains... Is it possible to go from a 32-bit setup to a 64-bit setup? If so, how easy is it? Is it a matter of OS, and/or CPU, and/or Memory... etc?

[asap18]

well i dont know about taking advice from a software company. solidworks(if i recall correct, the software costs like 5000 a user) is very demanding on the cpu. Did you ask them if the software could run on 64 bit systems? The x16 means a pci express card (standard these days).

 

In the end if you are using solidworks and other software, the software needs to be optimized for the processor. Call them up and ask them if their program is multithreaded because if its not, a quad core cpu would do not good, youd want a core 2 extreme 2.93 ghz because of its higher frequency. I dont think that you need two video cards rather one fast one with a large vram. like the 8800.

[jgrimes80]

well i dont know about taking advice from a software company. solidworks(if i recall correct, the software costs like 5000 a user) is very demanding on the cpu. Did you ask them if the software could run on 64 bit systems? The x16 means a pci express card (standard these days).

 

In the end if you are using solidworks and other software, the software needs to be optimized for the processor. Call them up and ask them if their program is multithreaded because if its not, a quad core cpu would do not good, youd want a core 2 extreme 2.93 ghz because of its higher frequency. I dont think that you need two video cards rather one fast one with a large vram. like the 8800.

 

 

My current service contract expires in June... @ which time I'd like to be able to move to the x64 platform and add memory if it's feasable because I KNOW I'm going to need access to an extremely high-capacity computer next year. (I've accepted a contract which will include the loading of a +20,000 assembly to be rendered and demo'd. Solidworks has a 64-bit and 32-bit version and is multi-threaded

Edited December 28, 2006 by jgrimes80

[bofors]

Still, @ least one question remains... Is it possible to go from a 32-bit setup to a 64-bit setup? If so, how easy is it? Is it a matter of OS, and/or CPU, and/or Memory... etc?

 

I think the questions you need to be asking have to with how the software uses memory bandwidth, threading and graphics card power in general. In short, where are the bottlenecks and what are there relative sizes?

 

For example, if the software can run your jobs on 8 cores and even then the CPU is still the bottleneck and not memory bandwidth nor graphics card performance, then you should be looking at dual Clovertown systems (2 x 4 cores) and actually Apple might have want you want in a few weeks.

 

However, if the software can only use up to say 2 (or 4) cores and memory bandwidth is the major bottleneck , than you should be looking at an overclocked Conroe (or Kentsfield) system instead. Likewise, if graphics card performance is the critical issue, spend your money there.

 

Note that the FB-DIMMs used in Intel's dual socket systems (771 for Woodcrest and Clovertown) is like twice as expensive as regular DDR2 and offers only about half the bandwidth (even in quad-channel mode). On the otherhand, if the software can use 16 GB or more of RAM on a 64-bit system to speed things up, an FB-DIMM system may have an advantage.

[wow]

The nvidia 8800 videocard is a nice card for gaming, and i gues its very very noice when running at full speed. Thats ok when gaming becuase you dont hear it of the sound, but when working and desiging you dont want fan running at full speed driving you crazy.

and i still thing a suported vicard is better then the 8800, i saw some of the card are not that expensive anymore.

[jgrimes80]

Straight from the Solidworks website: (If I were to put my sub_asms together for a typical contract = 3-4k parts)

 

System requirements for our Mechanical Design (SolidWorks), Design Validation (COSMOS), and Collaboration (eDrawings)(3).

Computer and Software Requirements:

RAM

-

Minimum: 512MB RAM

Parts(6) (< 200 features) and assemblies (< 1000 components)

-

Recommended: 1GB or more

Parts(6) (> 200 features) and assemblies (> 1000 components)

-

Recommended (Very large models): X64 processor with 6GB or more

Very large models that exceed the 2GB process size limit of 32 bit architecture.

Parts(6) (> 1000 features) and assemblies (> 10000 components)

-

Virtual memory recommended to 2X the amount of RAM

Video

-

Recommended: A certified OpenGL workstation graphics card and driver

-

For a listing of tested and certified graphics cards and driver combinations visit the Graphics Cards and Systems web site

CPU

-

Intel® Pentium™ (8), Intel® Xeon™ (8), and Intel® Core™.

AMD® Athlon™, AMD® Opteron™, and AMD® Turion™

Other

-

Mouse or other pointing device

-

Recommended: DVD drive. Minimum: CD drive (10)

-

If you use Bills of Materials from previous releases, or if you use Design Tables from any release, you must have Microsoft Excel 2000, 2002, or 2003

-

Internet Explorer version 6 if you are using the SolidWorks online help, SolidWorks Installation Manager, opening SolidWorks files from Internet Explorer, or using the PDMWorks Web Portal

-

For viewing the What's New manual, Adobe Acrobat version 7.0.7 or higher is recommended.

Network

-

SolidWorks is tested only with Microsoft's Windows Networking and Active Directory network environments

-

The supported operating systems for network devices to save SolidWorks model files are the same as for the SolidWorks software

-

Novell networks and non-Windows based network storage devices are not tested or recommended

 

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/services/S...quirements.html

 

 

 

I do need to bear in mind that I also use UGS (NX) and PTC (Pro/E and Pro/Mechanica) so I think I've got quite a bit of research to do....

[bofors]

Straight from the Solidworks website: (If I were to put my sub_asms together for a typical contract = 3-4k parts)

...

 

Recommended: 1GB or more

Parts(6) (> 200 features) and assemblies (> 1000 components)

-

Recommended (Very large models): X64 processor with 6GB or more

Very large models that exceed the 2GB process size limit of 32 bit architecture.

Parts(6) (> 1000 features) and assemblies (> 10000 components)

 

Ok, so it sounds like you do not have "very large" models and thus do not need to be thinking about anything near 16 GB of RAM. 4 GB should be sufficent.

 

But this really isn't the core issue. I mean, where is the rendering being done? On the CPU or GPU?

 

so I think I've got quite a bit of research to do....

 

I have to believe that there are websites and forums dedicated to these types of CAD workstations issues that you should be looking at.

[jgrimes80]

I'm so torn/confused... idk

 

I've accepted a contract to be filled in mid 07-08 with a projected ~15-20k prts which is why I'm even mentioning x64 now. Expandability... I'm trying to think ahead because I can see myself:

 

"Should have bought <insert here> back when so now that was a big waste of money..."

 

The CAD forums I did manage to find aren't frequented by many people, maybe I found the "hole in the walls"

 

Heck I'm already kicking myself because I turned down a workstation last year because I really didn't need one. My shop does things different than most. We prototype, then model. I can get into why but the point is I've never needed to load entire assemblies because I've always known it already works. Now I don't because this contract doesn't include prototyping. They just want a design.

Edited December 28, 2006 by jgrimes80

[asap18]

last year you would definitely gotten less power for your money. You need at least a 2 ghz core 2 to run solidworks well. Flat out, a pentium 4 will not cut it. I watch guys in agony at work with solidworks on a p4. Even on a core 2 2.13 ghz solid works was much smoother.

 

my recommendation if you build this youself(always cheaper this way) is this cpu. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819115011

 

it may be expensive but if you are buying this workstation now, you really need it to last until 2008. Quad core will most likely move as the standard and this way you can be a little "future proof". maybe even by that time, solidworks programmers will take advantage of 4 cores.

[bofors]

"Should have bought <insert here> back when so now that was a big waste of money..."

 

Usually people make mistakes by buying things they do not really need, this is my "rule of thumb" for buying hardware. Like Asap said above, you have done much better by not getting a workstation last year. However, this certainly will end up being a 64-bit system to some degree.

 

It sounds like you rule can out the dual socket 771 Woodcrest/Clovertown systems. You do not need more than 8 GB of RAM for the foreseeable future, and because the 775 memory and motherboards are much cheaper and better that should be your choice.

 

So, the next question is do you need a quad-core Kentfield now? I really doubt it and if you can wait even a month or two, the prices will drop significantly from the $1100 you would have to be pay today. If you need something now, I would certainly recommend a $200 or $300 dollar Conroe chip instead. You can easily upgrade and sell it later if you want.

 

In addition to the Intel BadAxe2, Asus has some workstation motherboards that you should look at too: http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1=3&am...me=Intel%20975X A key question is how many 16x PCIe slot do you really need, it sounds like at least two, but three or four may (or may not) give you more flexibility for adding additional graphics card later.

 

RAM prices a still a little high right and I expect them to fall in the next few weeks, it sounds like you could start with 2 x 1 GB DIMMs and then plan to add another pair latter for 4 GB total. Depending on your budget, we are talking about $200 to $300 dollars to get started. Down the road, you could sell and upgrade those to 2 GB DIMMs for 8 GB total.

 

I guess my real question now has to do with graphics cards. What is the cheapest "certified OpenGL workstation graphics card" on the market right now? Why do you need two?

[asap18]

yes i had the same thought, i think one midrange to high opengl 2.0/.5 card should be fine.

[jgrimes80]

Usually people make mistakes by buying things they do not really need, this is my "rule of thumb" for buying hardware. Like Asap said above, you have done much better by not getting a workstation last year. However, this certainly will end up being a 64-bit system to some degree.

 

:censored2: ... my motto "pay for the best, cry once"

 

It sounds like you rule can out the dual socket 771 Woodcrest/Clovertown systems. You do not need more than 8 GB of RAM for the foreseeable future, and because the 775 memory and motherboards are much cheaper and better that should be your choice.

 

So, the next question is do you need a quad-core Kentfield now? I really doubt it and if you can wait even a month or two, the prices will drop significantly from the $1100 you would have to be pay today. If you need something now, I would certainly recommend a $200 or $300 dollar Conroe chip instead. You can easily upgrade and sell it later if you want.

 

In addition to the Intel BadAxe2, Asus has some workstation motherboards that you should look at too: http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1=3&am...me=Intel%20975X A key question is how many 16x PCIe slot do you really need, it sounds like at least two, but three or four may (or may not) give you more flexibility for adding additional graphics card later.

 

RAM prices a still a little high right and I expect them to fall in the next few weeks, it sounds like you could start with 2 x 1 GB DIMMs and then plan to add another pair latter for 4 GB total. Depending on your budget, we are talking about $200 to $300 dollars to get started. Down the road, you could sell and upgrade those to 2 GB DIMMs for 8 GB total.

 

I guess my real question now has to do with graphics cards. What is the cheapest "certified OpenGL workstation graphics card" on the market right now? Why do you need two?

 

I don't know what I need... "two" graphics came from a conversation on the phone as the "perfect" solution for large assemblies w/ a high resolution... The only thing in concrete right now is a 30" monitor... whether it's the Dell model, Apple or HP

 

I can't type out how appreciative I am of the help... I'm not really comfortable spending money let alone 10k and not be sure it'll do what I want. The input is great... tomorrow my meeting is at 8 AM (PDT) so I'll post up details to get "yall's" opinion on it.

[bofors]

... my motto "pay for the best, cry once"

 

That's fine for goods that do not depreciate radicially like CPUs. I mean, NewEgg was selling that $1100 Kentsfield for $1500 just a few days ago. But you can buy a top of the line PSU and aluminum case, and seriously plan to be using them in 10 years.

 

The only thing in concrete right now is a 30" monitor... whether it's the Dell model, Apple or HP

Dell might be the way to go here, if the panel quality is good enough for your needs. Apple's one year warranty is a crime, but both may neogatiate on price a little.

 

... I'm not really comfortable spending money let alone 10k...

 

Well, so far we talking about a 5k system and thats with the $1100 CPU, 4 GB of high performance RAM and one workstation class graphics card. If you really want to spend anything like 10k, you are going to have to build two or least consider running dual 30" panels with two graphics cards instead.

[jgrimes80]

Last night, I got a call and the gentleman asked to come in earlier or later so he could avoid traffic… he’s 20 mi out. We met at 7:00.

 

Turns out, he's not a Solidworks rep, just a tech guy who the firm uses to aid setup/troubeshooting/diagnostics for customers.

 

His official recommendation was to buy a cerified workstation as he walked me through the Precision line from Dell and x8800/x6600 from HP.

 

Build my own/have built: (His "unofficial" recommendation)

 

Dual 771 socket 5000x motherboard

500-600

 

One Xeon 5060

300-400

 

4 GB (2x2GB) FBDIMM

700-800

 

FireGL V3750

1300

 

750W PSU

200

 

74GB Raptor - 180

400GB Seagate SATA/300 - 120

 

Misc: 400

 

We're were talking for a good 2 hours about what I need and "workstations" in general. He claims his setup is the most expandable and most future proof. I don't need to buy anything new when I switch to x64 in June minus XP Pro x64. And that the 5060 is practically a "forgotten" which performs comparatively to a mid-range Woodcrest but is significantly cheaper... $1000+ is not worth the processor because "in 6 months it'll be superseded and be worth 3-400." I can add a processor in the future, or upgrade it or both. Memory can be expanded to 32GB. Graphics card is considered "top-of-the-line" and should last the life of the computer... and easily power 2 30" monitors. I should see a huge improvement in rendering speed but I should still expect to be very patient especially for the upcoming project's size. <- he also suggested having an animation firm to do the renderings because they typically have "supercomputers" or workstations "bridged" ... May need to up the memory to be able to load the full assembly and still be “usable.” - but only if it's a problem.

 

He's offered to build it for 3500 flat (he’s either honest or one hell of a salesperson...) 3500+1700(30")= just over 5000 = way under what I thought I was going to spend.

 

 

 

 

Anybody have any thoughts?

[bofors]

His official recommendation was to buy a cerified workstation...

 

This could be the right way to go for you, which is why I brought it up above. But there certainly are some issues worth pointing here (again).

 

Dual 771 socket 5000x motherboard

500-600

The real problem with these motherboards is that they do not have any overclocking features. Ideally you would by a the cheapest CPU and overclock it so it is faster than most expensive, and this is exactly what you can do with the single socket 775 motherboards..

 

One Xeon 5060

300-400

 

If you go with a dual 771 socket, you certainly should get two CPU's not one. That is really what you paying for with a motherboard and RAM that is twice as expensive (and frankly much slower).

 

And that the 5060 is practically a "forgotten" which performs comparatively to a mid-range Woodcrest but is significantly cheaper...

This is total {censored}. Even if it were free, this is absolutely the wrong the CPU to recommend to you. The Xeon 5060 is not a Woodcrest but a Dempsey: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819117076

 

Even the entry level Woodcrest, the Xeon 5110 at 1.6 GHz for only $230 is much faster than the 5060: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...082&Local=y

 

4 GB (2x2GB) FBDIMM

700-800

 

2 GB DIMMs are likely to be a waste of money, unless you need maximum RAM capacity you want 1 GB DIMMs now. Again, FB-DIMMs stink both in terms of cost and performance when compared to DDR2 now.

 

74GB Raptor - 180

400GB Seagate SATA/300 - 120

You are much better off going with two 250 GB drives instead of one 400 for about the same cost. I have three Raptors, including a 74 GB and I think they are largely a waste of money. I strongly recommend that you consider some RAID arrays instead. You can run the pair 250 GB drives redundantly (mirrored, RAID 1) if you want to automatically back up your data, but also can consider running say four 40 GB drives in parrallel (striped, RAID 0) to get some speed. Most of the 775 motherboards have two RAID controllers built-in.

 

He claims his setup is the most expandable and most future proof.

 

Again, I focus more on what you need in the short term. Trying to be "future proof" is likely a mistake because the hardware market is very dynamic.

 

I don't need to buy anything new when I switch to x64 in June minus XP Pro x64.

This is why I said this is going to be a 64-bit system above.

 

... $1000+ is not worth the processor because "in 6 months it'll be superseded and be worth 3-400."

 

This is true and what I have tried spell out above.

 

Memory can be expanded to 32GB.

If you need to be considering that much RAM, you really do want to be going with a dual socket 771 system. But since you are only starting with 4GB, it really is not clear that you do.

 

Graphics card is considered "top-of-the-line" and should last the life of the computer...

 

Again, I think this the wrong way to look at it. Graphics cards become twice as powerful every year. Trying to buy something now that will last five years or so is a little silly. I think upgrade cycles need to be a little more frequent, more like two years.

 

He's offered to build it for 3500 flat...

 

Even if you are just going to run Windows, the Mac Pro is a much better deal at $2500.

[jgrimes80]

This could be the right way to go for you, which is why I brought it up above. But there certainly are some issues worth pointing here (again).

 

I'm not trying to be difficult, I simply DON'T know much...

The real problem with these motherboards is that they do not have any overclocking features. Ideally you would by a the cheapest CPU and overclock it so it is faster than most expensive, and this is exactly what you can do with the single socket 775 motherboards..

If you go with a dual 771 socket, you certainly should get two CPU's not one. That is really what you paying for with a motherboard and RAM that is twice as expensive (and frankly much slower).

Overclock is definitely not something I know how to do... I've heard that it usually results in a lower life-span and/or a potentially unstable computer.

 

This is total {censored}. Even if it were free, this is absolutely the wrong the CPU to recommend to you. The Xeon 5060 is not a Woodcrest but a Dempsey: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819117076

 

Even the entry level Woodcrest, the Xeon 5110 at 1.6 GHz for only $230 is much faster than the 5060: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...082&Local=y

 

I'm glad I didn't say yes then... sounds like it's the wrong direction

 

2 GB DIMMs are likely to be a waste of money, unless you need maximum RAM capacity you want 1 GB DIMMs now. Again, FB-DIMMs stink both in terms of cost and performance when compared to DDR2 now.

??? stink a little, stink alot? I really don't know the difference. I'm on a P4 so I'd expect to see gains regardless? right?

 

You are much better off going with two 250 GB drives instead of one 400 for about the same cost. I have three Raptors, including a 74 GB and I think they are largely a waste of money. I strongly recommend that you consider some RAID arrays instead. You can run the pair 250 GB drives redundantly (mirrored, RAID 1) if you want to automatically back up your data, but also can consider running say four 40 GB drives in parrallel (striped, RAID 0) to get some speed. Most of the 775 motherboards have two RAID controllers built-in.

 

I asked about that and he was quick to say that RAID isn't the way to go...

 

Again, I focus more on what you need in the short term. Trying to be "future proof" is likely a mistake because the hardware market is very dynamic.

 

This is why I said this is going to be a 64-bit system above.

...

If you need to be considering that much RAM, you really do want to be going with a dual socket 771 system. But since you are only starting with 4GB, it really is not clear that you do.

The plan is to continue running XP x86 (3GB mode) till I renew/upgrade my contracts until mid 2007 @ which time I planned on bumping up the memory (2 more DIMMs). He put me under the impression that more DIMMs equals lower performance- something about latency.

 

Question I should have asked before - Can I run 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS?

 

Again, I think this the wrong way to look at it. Graphics cards become twice as powerful every year. Trying to buy something now that will last five years or so is a little silly. I think upgrade cycles need to be a little more frequent, more like two years.

Even if you are just going to run Windows, the Mac Pro is a much better deal at $2500.

 

Five years is too long to expect? Damn...

 

A Mac Pro will work with no problems? My MBP is a little shaky but I haven't updated the bootcamp drivers since the second release...

 

If so, how would YOU configure it...

[bofors]

&st

Overclock is definitely not something I know how to do... I've heard that it usually results in a lower life-span and/or a potentially unstable computer.

There really is nothing to it. All we are talking about here is going into BIOS and adjusting some parameters. Almost all of these new Intel chips are perfectly stable at 3.0 GHz or higher (the Conroe Xeon 3060's I have are 100% stable at 3.6 GHz under full dual core loads 24/7, these are $300 chips), even on stock cooling. But of course, you would want to buy a decent after market cooler for $50 or so instead.

 

??? stink a little, stink alot? I really don't know the difference.

I looked into this in detail recently, I was considering a Mac Pro versus building my own Conroe boxes. See what I posted starting here: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=26508=110#

 

That data makes it very clear, FB-DIMMs stink alot.

 

I'm on a P4 so I'd expect to see gains regardless? right?

 

Sure, but just so you know, that Xeon 5060 is essentially a P4.

 

I asked about that and he was quick to say that RAID isn't the way to go...

I have not used RAID on Windows, but I know it is better than it is on OS X because hardware RAID is normally supported (OS X usually offers only software RAID) and you should have full driver support.

 

RAID is absolutely the way to go for anybody interested in computer performance. Hard drives are very slow relative to the rest of the computer, none of them come close to using SATA's 1.5 Gb/s let alone 3.0 Gb/s (except when filling up the small 8 - 16 MB caches). When using them in parallel, RAID 0, you are literally doubling or quadrupling your performance.

 

See this for some examples with comparisons to Raptors: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=31899

 

You can set up your RAID sets in a variety of ways to automatically backup your data. RAID 5 give you both backup and speed by running in parallel. Alternatively, you could just choose to back your data to optical media or a tape drive, and a better choice.

 

Question I should have asked before - Can I run 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS?

 

Windows XP x64 and Vista are designed to this. But since we are talking about Microsoft here, you know there can be problems. Yet, I would not expect any for the pro software you are running.

 

A Mac Pro will work with no problems?

 

I am not really recommending the Mac Pro here (yet), but at $2500 it is cheaper and better than any basic dual 771 socket system that you can build yourself. However, it is limited to only 16 GB of RAM (as opposed to 32 GB) and only has 4 internal hard drive bays (where you might want a lot more for RAID).

 

I really think you need to spend some more time doing research before making a purchasing decision here. This animation issue sounds like it could be an important factor. If you wish to do the animation yourself, you may very well may want a dual 771 machine with perhaps dual Clovertowns and say 8 GB of RAM. If not, I think you may be much better off by going with an overclocked 775 Conroe system and plan to upgrade to Kentsfield (quad-core) when the price is reasonable (~$600).

 

The 2CPU forum has some good people who may be able to provide you with better advice regarding graphics cards and animation. See this thread for example: http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=79957

[jgrimes80]

Today I went and visited a good friend/colleague who happens to be an R&D lead for SentreHEART in Palo Alto, CA http://sentreheart.com/

 

He just recieved a brand new Dell Precision Workstation which came in just over 8k... He's offered to let me tamper w/ it on Tuesday and use his largest assembly (~12,300 parts) and see how well it handles everything. I also recieved a list from UGS and PTC from their sales reps for supported graphics cards and certified configurations offered by Dell, HP, and IBM...

 

the hunt continues... and I appreciate all the help, I did find out that rendering is entirely CPU based... The UGS rep told me that my best bet would be to get a multi-core workstation and have it configured to run a NX session on one or two cores (which is all is really needs) and dedicate rest to another NX session while it's rendering because the rendering app (built-in) is multi-threaded and can ultilize up to 128 CPU's.

[asap18]

If you're not going to put two cpus in the server motherboard, there is no point in getting it.

 

 

As bofors said DO NOT GET the dempsey, its like buying last years model today.

 

for about the same price get this woodcrest.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819117085

 

Rendering is not ALL cpu based however a good part of it is.

 

My official recommendation is to get the Core 2 Duo E6700 with a 975xbx2.

 

Hard disk access will also be key, so get two raptors in a raid 0.