bofors Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Well, when I go to Newegg and look at the boards there, the majority of them say DDR2800 as the standard for the 965 and 975s. Sure, but you are going to set your RAM speed to 533 and overclock from there. Your RAM will have no problem reaching 800 (and because you have smaller 512MB modules it will overclock even better). You might have to raise the vDIMM a little bit, that's all. See this: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=17 And I really don't want to spend $250 for a board. Maybe I should just wait until the quad processors come out and look then. I may be waiting for the "cheap" Kentsfield, the Q6600, but I expect it will be in the $500 - 600 range in January. EDIT: It is now being reported that the Q6600 will go for $851: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/10/18/in...d-core_pricing/ That is way too much for what is essentially two E6600 chips. One might as well just buy the unlocked QX6700 at $999 instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman100 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Add some bucks for a DVD drive/burner and, given that you aim for serious overclocking, don´t forget to invest in CPU cooling/case cooling. A $30 case doesn´t come with fans. Overall another 100+ bucks in need to be spent. Anyhow (just to repeat myself), is your OCmania triggered by your desire to play high-end games real fast high res? If so, add another 100+ bucks for a better graphics card. If not, I wonder why OC is so terribly important? My speed concerns with Intel-based Macs will be almost entirely cleared once Microsoft Office and Photoshop are released in Universal Binary code. That´s IMHO the real (speed) issue. Video encoding is very CPU dependent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpeugh Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Thanks for the info. But how can I really tell if my RAM is worth a damn for overclocking? I guess that would help me to decide what I should buy. I am not going to buy a $270 mobo just to find out my RAM can't overclock to its potential. In addition I really don't want to get a $150 board that doesn't even have PATA support for the same reason also. And then I have to worry about compatibility with my Asus EAX1600XT silent v3 video card. I guess what I am saying is that the 965 and 975 options being offered really don't appeal to me yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Thanks for the info. But how can I really tell if my RAM is worth a damn for overclocking? Find somebody who has worked with it, perhaps by making a post at XtremeSystems.org forum. In addition I really don't want to get a $150 board that doesn't even have PATA support for the same reason also. And then I have to worry about compatibility with my Asus EAX1600XT silent v3 video card. I guess what I am saying is that the 965 and 975 options being offered really don't appeal to me yet. I think these are very legimate concerns. If you are satisified with your current Asus PL5D2-VM, I would reccomend that you get the new Conroe R2.0 version. If you really want the best price performance, wait a few months for the E4300 to come out. It will be an overclockers bargain like your Pentium D 805. The E4300 will have a multiplier of 9 (versus only 7 with the E6300), which make RAM performance less critical, but probably only cost about $140. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davinchy Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I'm a mac enthusiast and PC gamer so these opinions come from that background. Just a few things. I also did a lot of research on this subject. I recently spent some money on a nice system and I just want to correct a few discrepencies. The first thing I saw was a strange setup for your badaxe board. My 975xbx has 3 pci-e 16 slots. and only two pci slots with no pci-e 1x slots. This is important for a few reasons. First off if you are going with an ati card you may have read that ati is going to build drivers allowing you to use an ati video card as a physics co-processor. Making this board a great buy for that reason alone. That is if your a serious gamer or if you use certain software. I have my computer overclocked to 3.6 ghz on air using a conroe e6600. Not really to far off from what you called an average overclock. Someone said get a cheap power supply. Please don't do that. A good power supply is a good investment. Sure some parts on your computer will wear out or just become obsolete. Generally a power supply will outlast most components and can be used over and over again as your system evolves. I don't know why you would say an x1600 is the only way to go. I have an x1950xtx and it runs perfectly with my os x. I just used jas's cd. Yes this is overkill for osx but so is a conroe to be honest. If your just building an osx box you don't need the latest and greatest. There aren't really any games to be played nor any universal binary applications that will be using all that power at this point in time anyway. I've also heard that badaxe boards will run the new quad core processors. It hasn't been confirmed but it is at least a hope. I'm sure the other chipsets will not be supported as intel has all but abandoned the 965 chipset. Well thats about it. I think the rest of the points made so far are spot on. Oh one more thing... The secondary raid controller on the badaxe looks like it may be supported soon. It is a derivative of silicon images 3114 chipset. If sil or someone else can come up with working osx raid that would be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Someone said get a cheap power supply. Please don't do that. A good power supply is a good investment. Sure some parts on your computer will wear out or just become obsolete. Generally a power supply will outlast most components and can be used over and over again as your system evolves. If there is some problem with the Ultra V Series 500W that makes it unsuitable for use in a $500 system, please tell me because I just ordered one for free after rebate: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=30232 Likewise, if there is something wrong with the Fortorn Source (FSP Group) AX400-PN at about $40 for low and mid-range systems, I would really like to know about it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16817104953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman100 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 If there is some problem with the Ultra V Series 500W that makes it unsuitable for use in a $500 system, please tell me because I just ordered one for free after rebate: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=30232 Likewise, if there is something wrong with the Fortorn Source (FSP Group) AX400-PN at about $40 for low and mid-range systems, I would really like to know about it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16817104953 Let me ask you this: Do you think it is possible for a company to put quality components in a PSU that is free after rebate? http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=480277 "Medicore at best" The Fortron however is a fine choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The Fortron however is a fine choice Good, that is essentially my point. Do you think it is possible for a company to put quality components in a PSU that is free after rebate? Of course it is possible, the manufacturer could have thousands of units just sitting in a warehouse which are not selling because of some marketing failure. If Ultra V Series 500W used substandard components, I would expect people to be complaining about it. Instead, every single one of these reviews are positive: http://www.pricegrabber.com/rating_getprod...d_type=masterid JonnyGuru did a pretty through analysis of Ultra V Series 500W. Other than the price of about $60, his only other significant grips were apparently that it should be labeled a "450W" and it failed the "High 5V crossload" test of an exterme load (25A) on the +5V rail with very little load (10A) on the +12V. The result was that was the +12V rail was pushed to 12.58V, which he deemed failing: http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/V-Series/V-Series.html But the "High 5V crossload" test is a contortion that will never be producted in a real system. In fact, JonnyGuru has dropped all these extreme crossloading tests from his new PSU testing methodology in favor of more measurements that actually simulate real world conditions (like running the PSU in a "hot box"): http://www.jonnyguru.com/new_testing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabr Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Or one can pay $50 or so more to get both with a 975 board. Oh yeah! My bad, forgot abouth the 975X chipset motherboards... The ASUS models spring to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davinchy Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The title of this thread was conroe choices with overclocking in mind... For a cheap system getting a cheap power supply is no big deal. It's a cheap system. However if you plan on putting a 200+ dollar cpu in your system then a cheap power supply may end up costing you some money down the road. As I stated before I'm a gamer. Graphics cards are getting beefier and more power hungry. The board I suggested has 3 pci-e 16 slots. So yeah I would definately not suggest getting a cheap power supply for that setup. There is no question you can build a hacintosh for cheap. I didn't mean to suggest you couldn't. But if your going cheap for some parts might as well go cheap for all parts. Don't get expensive ram and cpu to put in an old tin can with a cigarette lighter power converter. What I meant to get across is that a power supply is a good investment. It can be a cornerstone of a good system. You can start there and move up. Personally I don't think you want to base your system around any other components exept maybe a really nice case. Everything in your pc minus the psu and case will get older and cheaper after a year. A good case and psu hold their value. Anyway I spent enough time explaining myself. I stand by my initial point. I just wanted to elaborate on it so nobody else misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman100 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Ultra V-Series Back in the Athlon XP days, I bought a 1700, overclocked it like crazy, but used a Powmax PSU because it was teh cheapest at the time. The voltage rails were perfect, as measured by my $150 multimeter. I even connected an oscilloscope to watch its output. 3 months later, I turned the computer on, heard a small explosion, smelled smoke, and the circuit breaker tripped. The motherboard, memory, and video card were all toasted. All because I couldn't spend $40 on a decent PSU. The point is, it may output stable voltages, but that doesn't mean quality components are being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 ... overclocked it like crazy, but used a Powmax PSU because it was teh cheapest at the time. It's funny you mention Powmax because JonnyGuru blew up three of those in his review: http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/Assassin/Powmax_Assassin.html He then compares the Powmax to the V Series: I’ve got friends at ASI, Tiger Direct.. so I can get some power supplies for free, blow them up.. and get replacements! This is how I managed to get three Powmax Assassins to blow up. Rarely will a company offer up their full line for review. Especially when the reviewer has the ability to blow up their product. Ultra didn’t think about that before giving me three of their cheapest power supplies: The V-Series 350W, 400W and 500W. Do we get to see another “Powmax Assassin” incident? The 350W, 400W and 500W sells for only $37, $49 and $57 at Monarch Computer. That’s pretty cheap. But then again, so is a Powmax. ... So in a nutshell, if you have little to spend and bought a V-Series power supply for your machine, I wouldn’t kick you while you were down. And if you got one of those bundles from Tiger Direct where they pre-install a V-Series in a Wizard case with some motherboard they’re trying to get rid of, I wouldn’t insist that you yank the power supply. There are better choices for the money, and the best choice of all may be to up the budget, but ultimately if you wanted to make “the easy choice,” the V-Series isn’t “the bad choice." http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/V-Series/V-Series.html In sort, the Ultra V Series is no Powmax. If it was it would have came out during his testing. Likewise if they used bad components, JonnyGuru would have said something about it. This guy is a professional PSU engineer, he designs them for a variety of companies. The motherboard, memory, and video card were all toasted.... The point is, it may output stable voltages, but that doesn't mean quality components are being used. I think a better point would have been that a cheap PSU can risk some much more expensive components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 My bad, forgot abouth the 975X chipset motherboards... The ASUS models spring to mind... Back to this issue of wanting OS X and Conroe overclocking, I still think that the ASUS P5LD2 R2.0 may be the way to go for some. While most of the other 945 Conroe boards do not offer full feature overclocking capabilities, this one does and at about half the price of a 975 board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813131048 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman100 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Back to this issue of wanting OS X and Conroe overclocking, I still think that the ASUS P5LD2 R2.0 may be the way to go for some. While most of the other 945 Conroe boards do not offer full feature overclocking capabilities, this one does and at about half the price of a 975 board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813131048 have you heard back from anyone on this board? Also for the budget minded: Biostar TForce 965 530 FSB, $110 shipped at Newegg http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showth...ghlight=biostar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 have you heard back from anyone on this board? I tried searching for reports again today. XtremeSystems' forum makes no mention of it at all. Here is an OSx86 overclocking deal, NewEgg's "Open Box" special on an OEM Bad Axe for $160 (with free shipping): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...82E16813121016R That's over $50 cheaper than the best price I can find on the Internet: http://www.ajump.com/ajump/product.asp?pf%...;dept%5Fid=5109 Now, that I have basically ruled out Kentsfield by price (supposedly the Q6600 will be $851, which is way too much), I might have to jump on this. On the otherhand, the Bad Axe 2 is do out by the end of the month, so we could see these remaining stock of the original Bad Axe get dumped on the market for even less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 If overclocking, always choose Asus or DFI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman100 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 I tried searching for reports again today. XtremeSystems' forum makes no mention of it at all. I have one heading my way, I'll report back in a week or two. I plan on buying the following boards: ASUS P5LD2 R2.0 Biostar T Force 965 Bax Axe, possibly. Then I'd have one from each chipset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiceTea Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 The Asus P5LD2 is surely a good board for running OSX86 but I am not aware that anyone managed to push it beyond a FSB of 350 MHz. Asus has recently introduced a new series of 945 chipset-based mobos, the P5L 1394 and the P5L-VM 1394, both with onboard Firewire. Specs indicate that these boards should be compatible with Kentsfield quadcores. The only obvious drawback is the Attansic LAN chip, which is not supported by OSX86 (and Linux). It maybe more interesting to test these new designs, so far I could not find any information on how well they OC. I have one heading my way, I'll report back in a week or two. I plan on buying the following boards: ASUS P5LD2 R2.0 Biostar T Force 965 Bax Axe, possibly. Then I'd have one from each chipset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman100 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 The Asus P5LD2 is surely a good board for running OSX86 but I am not aware that anyone managed to push it beyond a FSB of 350 MHz. Asus has recently introduced a new series of 945 chipset-based mobos, the P5L 1394 and the P5L-VM 1394, both with onboard Firewire. Specs indicate that these boards should be compatible with Kentsfield quadcores. The only obvious drawback is the Attansic LAN chip, which is not supported by OSX86 (and Linux). It maybe more interesting to test these new designs, so far I could not find any information on how well they OC. yeah, it looks like you'll need to drop in either a LAN or firewire card for the cheap conroe boards. $76 is crazy for a MB though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberracus Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I think thew most important point here, in these forums is OSX86 compatibility so i personally can rule out 965 chipsets. The guy who said there arent universal binaries or games that need Conroes, my god, what is he talking about, Final Cut Studio, Compressor, all the audio apps, and video compresion software, all of them universal all of them high cpu users.. And games, Call of Duty 2, quake 4, cold wars just to mention some games... Here we are talking of OSX86 systems not PCs Overclock should be a goal under Mac compatibility Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiceTea Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 For really heavy OC only 965- or 975-based seem suitable. 965s have compatibility issues, 975s are darn expensive. 945G- or P based mobos OC less well but are cheap and, most importantly, are nicely supported by OSX86. What´s your point? If you want to OC beyond a FSB of 350 MHZ, and OSX86 is important for you, the only choice is as yet a 975. My "need for speed" will be sufficiently addressed once MS Office and Adobe PS run as universal binaries while running a Conroe perhaps somewhere between 2.4 and 3 Ghz. Moreover, the integrated GPU of 945G chipsets is fully sufficient for these tasks. Alternatively, for a 945P mobo a X1600 Pro card will certainly do the job. From this perspective I consider the OC potential as of minor importance (a 20-30% OC is possible with 945 chipsets and I would certainly try hard to exploit that). As you said "Here we are talking of OSX86 systems not PCs" - the primary issues is compatibility. Your mileage may vary... I think thew most important point here, in these forums is OSX86 compatibility so i personally can rule out 965 chipsets. The guy who said there arent universal binaries or games that need Conroes, my god, what is he talking about, Final Cut Studio, Compressor, all the audio apps, and video compresion software, all of them universal all of them high cpu users.. And games, Call of Duty 2, quake 4, cold wars just is a t to mention some games... Here we are talking of OSX86 systems not PCs Overclock should be a goal under Mac compatibility Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 975s are darn expensive. I just ordered a refurbished Bad Axe from Mwave for $117.49 (I also figured out a trick to get an additional $10 off the order): http://www.mwave.com/mwave/ViewProduct.asp...p;SortMethod=11 I am not for sure if their refurbished Bad Axes were Conroe ready (rev. 304+), but I talked to Mwave and it sounded like they were. I will find out when I receive it next week and report. If not Conroe ready, I suppose it might be worth moding at this price: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99298 I noticed that TigerDirect had Bad Axes on sale for $200 yesterday (this fuels my speculation that these boards are going to be dumped on the market when the Bad Axe 2 is released in a few days), but NewEgg no longer appears to have any "open boxes" for $160. X1600 Pro card I also ordered a refurbished PowerColor x1600Pro 256MB Dual DVI from Mwave for $88, which from what I can tell should work with the Badenov method for OSx86 (but again I will report once I get the card). NewEgg has these cards new for $94 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814131318 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 $117.49 is impressive. My current board was refurbished from ASUS and I wouldn't hesitate to buy refurbished again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I am not for sure if their refurbished Bad Axes were Conroe ready (rev. 304+), but I talked to Mwave and it sounded like they were. I just got it and was bummed because the box said "302". But I check the board and guess what... I actually got a "305"!!! EDIT: Here are the details of my build and overclocking results: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...508&st=126# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 N I C E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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