Is a Hackintosh right for me? And stuff.

[Tacotruck]

Ok folks I have read through a bunch of stuff, including the tutorial linked in the wiki, skimmed the wiki and done some searches for some specific info and I think I have enough background to ask a few general questions. 

 

My background is that of a Mac user, pretty much since Amiga gave up doing consumer machines and I went Mac instead of windows. I have never been much of a hacker though, but I do have some fairly rusty electronics skills. I have helped some friends build gaming PCs before and assembled a bunch of PCs for an office I worked at a decade or so ago. I had a couple of power macs back in the day and I liked the expandability / upgradeability of them, but have been running on iMacs for a while, I think I am on my 3rd iMac, and it’s a midyear 2010 model.

 

I am an American living in Thailand on a fairly limited retirement budget, and mostly I don’t do anything hardcore with my machine, no video editing etc, the big thing I do is play a lot of World of Warcraft, and some other Blizzard games along with watching some tv via the internets. 

 

I have found that on my current iMac, with the new improvements to the graphics engine with the latest expansion, my iMac is having a harder time keeping up. I’m also in the Alpha test of the new Heart of the Storm and I play some Starcraft and both of those really strain my poor machine.

 

So I am thinking of getting a new machine. The Mac Pro, while sexy, is just not in my budget. I could go for a new iMac, but I am sort of tired of not being able to stretch out the life cycle of a machine by upgrading components like I could back in the day. Also, again, I am on a limited budget and kicking the cash out for an iMac is a big chunk all at once, and I don’t like using credit.

 

So I am thinking of going hackintosh. Living here in Thailand there are some real advantages to going this route. For one thing, it is actually more common for people buying a desktop computer here to go down to the computer store, pick out a set of parts and have the guys at the shop put it together for them. Off the shelf complete desktop systems are comparatively rare. 

 

This means there are a ton of places to get components from, and most of that stuff is at good prices. It also would allow me to buy the parts a little bit at a time and then assemble them (or have them all assembled) when I have everything I need. I like this better than getting an iMac on credit and then paying the debt down.

 

The downside is that it’s not uncommon for counterfeit stuff to get pawned off as name brand components. This is something I’ll need to keep an eye on.

 

I’d also be able to have that upgradeability that I miss.

 

So to the big question; am I crazy to try this? Is this a project that is gonna frustrate me to no end? While I like being able to do upgrades when I need to, I don’t like to futz with my machine too much, once it is up and running I don’t really want to have to fiddle with it. I want it to just do what it is supposed to do. I know I am setting myself up for at least some futzing around, but if I go with the most recommended, most compatible parts, how much futzing are we talking about?

 

Another question; I’m thinking about picking up a terabyte usb drive to offload my music and video onto, and clear up some room on the iMacs HDD. Not planning on doing any fancy partitioning on this drive. Can I use this drive for the install drive? It seems like I should be able to but most people talk about using a flash drive dedicated to this purpose. Any reasons not to do it with the media drive? 

 

Is a WIFI card necessary? For gaming I use a direct ethernet connect for my broadband connection. I plan to keep the iMac around anyway and I can share the internet to my phone from it. So I don’t really see a need for a WIFI card. Besides I could add one later if I need to, right?

[JVene]

 

So to the big question; am I crazy to try this? Is this a project that is gonna frustrate me to no end?

 

Hey, Welcome....I'm new to the boards, too, but I'm a 50 something that's been in this tech for decades. Other than being thousands of miles on the other side of the planet, we have a lot in common (electronics, for example). I'm a developer, primarily C++ on mobile (3rd incarnation, I've been all over the industry). I haven't owned a "brand name" computer in my life (well, there was a TRS-80 in the late 70's, some PC clone in the 80's), for the very reason you're describing.

 

First off, you have the right idea - if you choose hardware from the compatibility lists you find, you generally have an easy time of it. WiFi gets some press because, basically, there's one WiFi card that works, and all the others are a headache. Wired ethernet, on the other hand is hardly a problem. If you get one of the known, compatible motherboards, the ethernet on the board is probably all you'll ever need.

 

The 2010 iMac probably has a Radeon series 4xxx GPU. These days they can be found for $40 in the US. Moving up to a better GPU than you're currently using may be fairly cheap (compared to what is currently high end). The $150 US price range may fetch something 10 times the power of that iMac or more. You might be satisfied with a card half that price point.

 

The i3 in the iMac you have isn't a bad performer, but it's probably the previous socket. The current socket is the 1150, and it's probably going to be replaced very soon (the Intel roadmap suggests this crop of i7's for the 1150 is the end of that line). This means the 1150 platform is becoming a bargain (if not now, soon), and the DDR4 RAM standard of the next gen isn't going to perform any better than current 1600+ speed DDR3, until probably late next year or thereafter when DDR4 speeds ramp well beyond the 2400 range.

 

RAM prices are the problem these days, and will likely remain so - and DDR3 will likely edge up, not down. This means the choice of purchasing a DDR3 based board or a DDR4 based board is a tough one. Your requirements aren't RAM intensive, it seems....I think 16Gbytes is where you're probably aiming, no? Maybe even 8? Many of the current boards are 32 GByte max designs. My own view is to focus on 4 socket boards, populate two of them and leave 2 for expansion - unless you purchase 32 Gbytes right now. As far as can be predicted (a bad habit), RAM isn't going to be cheaper for at least 2 years, especially DDR3. If RAM ever does drop in price, it will likely be DDR4 that gets cheaper over time.

 

Pay some attention to the CPU selection, and check against the compatibility charts. Most any Core2 chip will work (i3, i5, i7), but those which Apple hasn't put in a box may be a little problematic (and not all that much, at that). From what I can tell, the primary "issue" may be controlling power/speed (power savings, turbo mode). If you get a CPU used in an Apple box that's not an issue.

 

With a motherboard from the compatibility list, a CPU common to Apple and a graphics card from the compatibility list - you may have a nearly zero hassle install of OS X. Most of the "help me" posts you find here (and elsewhere) happen because we're stuffing OS X into something unsuitable for the job, and still many manage to get it to work. I have OS X on an AMD Phenom II machine. I wouldn't say it's what YOU want, but it's stable and functional (10.9.4 & 10.8.4).

 

Just in case you need a reminder (which I doubt)....don't skimp on the power supply, especially since your next door to where all those units from which the power supply horror stories emerge are made.

[dcai777]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6PMG23

This would be a basic build I would suggest for you. Everything is compatible, including ethernet so you don't need wifi. 

No, you can use any 8GB+ usb to install Mavericks.

You will not need to fiddle around much until a new Mac OS comes out, and you should be able to play WoW very well on the GTX 650.

Both builds in my sig. are currently hackintoshes and are on 24/7 with no stability issues. You should have no problems with building a hackintosh.

[Tacotruck]

Thanks for the encouraging posts guys. I guess the next step is to write down some lists of preferred parts and go shopping around to see what is available here. You have given me some good stuff to think about.

 

Clarification on the drive to use for the install, I'm asking if a USB terabyte drive that is already mac formatted and holding a lot of media files is a bad idea to use for the install drive. I may just go with the USB stick to keep it all simple though, here you can pick them up at 7-11.

 

I see on the build linked above one of the HD is a solid state drive. I like the idea of them, but I'm unclear on what the real advantages of them are. Especially considering the price vs storage capacity ratio.

 

I was sort of thinking of going with a pair of regular terabyte HDD and setting them up as a raid array just to have the constant on the fly backup. I have not had a drive fail on me in a really long time (knock wood) but I have always been a little nervous on iMacs running just a single drive. 

[jamiethemorris]

The USB terabyte drive would work, but you really are best off getting yourself a thumb drive. Leave the installer on it and keep it for in case anything goes haywire. Sort of like the equivalent to a recovery partition.

 

As for the solid state drive, the advantage is speed. The difference truly is unbelievable, once you've used one you will never be able to go back... Single digit boot times and applications open instantly.

[Tacotruck]

Just to toss some new info out there and ask a few more questions as I dig more into this idea.

 

First, FWIW, this is what my iMac is/has:

 

  Model Identifier: iMac11,2

  Processor Name: Intel Core i3

  Processor Speed: 3.06 GHz

  Number of Processors: 1

  Total Number of Cores: 2

  L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB

  L3 Cache: 4 MB

  Memory: 4 GB

  Processor Interconnect Speed: 5.86 GT/s

 

ATI Radeon HD 4670:

  Chipset Model: ATI Radeon HD 4670

  Type: GPU

  Bus: PCIe

  PCIe Lane Width: x16

  VRAM (Total): 256 MB

 

So while I’m not shooting to get cutting edge tech in my new box, I do want to make sure I’m jumping forward as much as feasible. 

 

Also here are Blizzards minimum specs and the recommended specs for Macs for the new expansion.

 

Minimum

OS X 10.8

Intel Core 2 Duo

NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT or ATI Radeon HD 4850

2 GB RAM

1024×768 minimum display resolution

 

Reccomended

PC/Mac:

OS X 10.9 (or latest version)

Intel Core i5 or better

NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M or ATI Radeon HD 6750M or better

4 GB RAM

 

I am hoping to meet or exceed the recommended configuration.

 

I like the logic of sticking to CPUs that Apple has used, is there a reference somewhere that I can check CPUs against to see if they have been a ‘chosen one’? Edit: I found this page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_models_grouped_by_CPU_type, as I write this post and search for my own answers at the same time. Am I guessing right that if a CPU is listed here it’s more likely to be trouble free?

 

Also just for the edification of anyone else out there in a similar state of patchy knowledge, I found this video helpful in deciding that while it sounds cool to have Xeon in my machine just like a Mac Pro, it’s probably not worthwhile.

 

For some WoW specific info here is an engineers blog about the system changes coming with the release of the pre-patch for the expansion. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15936285/engineer%E2%80%99s-workshop-engine-evolution-in-warlords-of-draenor-9-17-2014  The prepatch coming within a few weeks and full expansion coming next month. I am already playing in the Beta and the added strain has been part of what has inspired this whole project.

 

I have been poking around on pcpartspicker and I have these 3 parts on my wish list for now. It seems to me if I can figure out the CPU, MB and GPU, the rest of the parts can be fitted in around them.

 

Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor OR

Intel Core i7-4771 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor

Gigabyte GA-H97-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/w8rxVn 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Mn6Myc

 

Partspicker shows them as compatible. The CPUs are both ones used on fairly recent iMac models. The MB and GPU look good on the wiki page. Am I on the right track? What are folks thoughts about spending an extra hundred bucks or so to kick it up from i5 to i7? 

 

Thanks so much!

The USB terabyte drive would work, but you really are best off getting yourself a thumb drive. Leave the installer on it and keep it for in case anything goes haywire. Sort of like the equivalent to a recovery partition.

 

As for the solid state drive, the advantage is speed. The difference truly is unbelievable, once you've used one you will never be able to go back... Single digit boot times and applications open instantly.

Hmm, that sounds pretty cool. I will see what I can find when I get to that point in parts acquisition

[JVene]

Tacotruck,

 

About RAID as "backup".

 

Excuse the mild rant (hey, I'm an old man ), but this is one of my pet peeves - not because people get this misconception in their minds, but because they proceed to depend upon it and it fails them, and then they'll be surprised by it.

 

This is one of the biggest misconceptions about RAID, and I read it everywhere.

 

It isn't backup.

 

It's redundancy. There's a HUGE difference when the time comes that you actually need a backup instead of redundancy.

 

Here's what I mean.

 

Anything that corrupts your data, from accidental deletion to random behaviors, bad shutdowns or malicious code.....also corrupts the redundant copy.

 

That's not backup. The original design intent is to keep mission critical systems "available", as they call it, should a drive fail during operation.

 

That SOUNDS like backup, until you have lost data because of accidental deletion or some such nonsense. That's when you realize the fine print on the subject.

 

Unless you're thinking of some mission critical scenario, using RAID as backup is a waste of money. Use the same drives you have in mind, but put one in service to archive backups, so you can go back in time to retrieve something you loose (which RAID can't do).

 

On the fly backup is a thing, and an important one...but that isn't RAID either. It's an OS/Application service which skulks around looking for new material to backup, then fashions the backup in an archive where you can find it later - independent of accidental or malicious malfunction.

 

About the best use of RAID 1 concepts is to be a redundant resource to a RAID 0 concept, to keep the RAID 0 available, AKA RAID 0+1, RAID 1+0, RAID 10, etc.

[dcai777]

I would take the i5 and 660 as it is not worth getting the i7 for most gaming purposes.The motherboard sounds good to me.

[Tacotruck]

Good point about the RAID. I was not thinking about the backup in the sense of data corruption, which is probably more a of a real risk than actual drive failure. It's what we used in the business systems I have been involved with before and I guess it also had some cool factor in my mind Time to rethink that.

 

After talking to some folks over at the WoW forums I think I'm gonna bump up to a stronger GPU. some flavor of 770, maybe even a 780. I'm off to Tukom (a big electronics 'mall') now to get a phone power pack and I'm gonna poke around and get some early price quotes and info on what parts might actually be available.

 

Been looking at http://www.lazada.co.th/ a pretty good electronics place here. More pricy than the little shops but you are also pretty much guaranteed to get the real thing there.

[Tacotruck]

I figure I might as well keep my whole newbie journey in this one thread, maybe someone else sometime can find it useful. If this is the wrong way to go about this, mods please let me know. 

 

My buddy turned me on to a place he likes getting parts form here in Thailand. http://www.invadeit.co.th/ They are up Im Bangkok but they ship for free all over Thailand Prices seem good too definitely comparable to the online places in the states once you figure in international shipping and possible customs fees.

 

None of the shops I hit today had the CPUs I wanted, one could get the i5, but part of me really wants to try to go i7, just because wow is pretty CPU intensive, even with the new graphics engine changes. The CPU and GPU will probably be the last 2 items purchased, so I have lots of time to work on that.

 

The MB I want was available at a price that again is not bad if you figure in shipping, and from one of the shops here locally that I trust to have genuine products. Though Invade IT has it at the same price http://i.nvade.it/4UL

 

My newb question of the day is about cases. What should I be looking for in a case? I figure it should feel durable, have lots of space for ventilation fans, usb ports in front. Beyond that, I have no idea. Any advice? 

 

Oh and FWIW here is a link to what I am envisioning now. All these parts I can find at my new favorite store, Invade IT. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Y4M8xr

 

Another quick question about power supplies, questioning my electronics education back in another life. They will draw different amounts of power depending on the load placed on them, correct? I know they will draw some all the time, but while idling, they should not be drawing the max, right? 

[Tacotruck]

One more thought... Optical drive, obsolete or not? I can't remember the last time I used the one on my iMac... Do I need one? I'm not sure I do.

[jamiethemorris]

One more thought... Optical drive, obsolete or not? I can't remember the last time I used the one on my iMac... Do I need one? I'm not sure I do.

I very,very rarely use my optical drive. I think the only Mac currently available from Apple that still comes with an optical drive is the non-retina MBP. A compatible optical drive is cheap enough that you can buy one just to have one. On the other hand, you could use the money you save from not buying an optical drive to put something else in it's place, such as a fan controller, a media card reader, or a small storage box.

 

For a case, that's sort of a personal preference thing... But one of the things that I look for in a case is how quiet it is and obviously how it looks. I have a fractal define (the one dcai777 has in the pcpartpicker configuration he posted), which is lined with sound deadening material and it's probably the most minimal-looking case you can buy.

 

You might have other priorities, for example:

-Price. $100 for a case is expensive depending on who you talk to, and you definitely don't NEED to spend that much on a case. You can still get a decent case for pretty cheap, for exampe this one here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LIDU5S?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&tag=ezvid02-20&creativeASIN=B005LIDU5S

-Size. A bigger case is easier to work in and organize, usually has room for more drives and has better airflow, but a smaller case is... Well, smaller. This is one of the cooler looking small form factor cases: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345017&cm_re=bitfenix-_-11-345-017-_-Product note that it requires a microATX motherboard so it wouldn't fit something like the H97 board you are looking at.

-Durability. If you pay a bit extra you can get a seriously heavy duty case. 99% of cases should be plenty durable for you provided you don't abuse them. Beware there are some super cheap plasticky ones out there though (usually the gawdy-looking budget gamer cases).

 

My advice is to just shop around, find a case you like, and read some reviews on it.

 

A power supply will only draw as much power as you are using. So if you would have the same power usage whether you are using a 450w or 1000w PSU.

[dcai777]

 http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Y4M8xr

 

That's a nice build right there

One of my friends has the fractal case, and it is extremely silent even with his sli'ed 780Tis so I highly recommend it.

I would say grab a nice 750W PSU such as one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Series-Modular-Bronze-ATX12V/dp/B00ALK3KEM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412558363&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+750

They work silently and just work, powering in his case sli'ed 770s.

[Tacotruck]

Thanks guys It is good to know I am on the right track. One thing the PC building shops had were tons of cases, and the prices seemed pretty good. I'm less concerned about noise as I am about getting good cooling.

 

It's hot here. Even at the coldest time of year it is very uncommon to drop below 70f. At this moment it is dumping down rain outside and about 75f (24c). During the hot season it's pushing 100 every day, and I don't run aircon, hate it. So My machine will be hanging out in the heat with me. 

 

So I'll be looking at a good CPU cooler and good fans and airflow too. I did some research on cases and I saw some with a divider between the area where the Power Supply and the rest of the guts are, and It seems like that is a good idea, especially when each of those sections has fans of it's own. I'm not gonna overclock so I don't see needing liquid cooling, it seems a bit over the top, and the idea of having some kind of liquid inside my electronics just seems wrong to me.