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OS X 10.10 Yosemite unveiled


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It isn't realistic. It should look realistic. 

 

Realistic? What do you mean by that? What is "realistic" in terms of GUIs? What kind of reality do you mean? After all, the only "realistic" representation of any data or code is just some "0s" and "1s", or to be more precise: different levels of voltages in your RAM or SSD modules, or different levels of magnetism on your HDD. Therefore some type of skeuomorphism is needed anyways in any GUI, and even iOS7 is still skeuomorphic in many regards.

 

So for example a trashcan icon looks like a representation of a trashcan, but it isn't "realistic", bc there is simply no trashcan in your computer. Seriously! ;) It is just an already established convention that creates an association with the concept of "deleting" something.

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Realistic? What do you mean by that? What is "realistic" in terms of GUIs? What kind of reality do you mean? After all, the only "realistic" representation of any data or code is just some "0s" and "1s", or to be more precise: different levels of voltages in your RAM or SSD modules, or different levels of magnetism on your HDD. Therefore some type of skeuomorphism is needed anyways in any GUI, and even iOS7 is still skeuomorphic in many regards.

 

So for example a trashcan icon looks like a representation of a trashcan, but it isn't "realistic", bc there is simply no trashcan in your computer. Seriously! ;) It is just an already established convention that creates an association with the concept of "deleting" something.

 

Um don't you get what I mean? I mean that it should look like a photograph instead of a cartoon. The UI should match with what it's doing, game center USED To look like a casino table, calender USED TO look like a real calender, Notes USED to look like legal yellow lined paper?

 

And iOS 7 maybe does have slight skeuomorphism but it rarely has it, it's just plain white everywhere. I've seen people give an excuse saying that we are familiar with computers and we don't need everything to look skeuomorphic so people can identify what it is because we all know what it is right now. But how is that an excuse to make everything look like a cartoon? I mean it wasn't that hard to tell what a button is without making it look like one. I honestly think even if people are moving to flat designs, they should atleast give an option to revert back to the skeuomorphic UI

Edited by fantomas1
post edited! please remind that we are in a public forum. Thank you for your understanding!
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Um don't you get what I mean? I mean that it should look like a photograph instead of a cartoon. The UI should match with what it's doing, game center USED To look like a casino table, calender USED TO look like a real calender, Notes USED to look like legal yellow lined paper?

 

And iOS 7 maybe does have slight skeuomorphism but it rarely has it, it's just plain white everywhere. I've seen people give an excuse saying that we are familiar with computers and we don't need everything to look skeuomorphic so people can identify what it is because we all know what it is right now. But how is that an excuse to make everything look like a cartoon? I mean it wasn't that hard to tell what a button is without making it look like one. I honestly think even if people are moving to flat designs, they should atleast give an option to revert back to the skeuomorphic UI

 

Skeumorphism should (and mostly has) die a fiery death. It's terrible design. I'm not saying I like the design choices in Yosemite (folders are ugh), but the less skeumorphism the better.

 

 

So it's the 'translucency' of Windows Vista + 'clarity' of Windows 8. Oh, and the square dock from Tiger is back too. How original...

 

Oh, and the sidebar notification-center now has gadgets 'widgets'. OS X 10.10 Vista!

 

Vista was a hot dumpster fire. This won't be. And so what about the new/old dock? How would you evolve it? Make it 4D? 

 

What really pisses me off though is that most of the new features in Yosemite are targeted towards iOS users.

 

And as a strictly-Android type of person, that means this new update is just a pack of bloat that I'll never use.

I just hope all those new "features" don't hog the system resources.

 

And don't get me started on the transparency... JEEEZ

 

Funny you're railing about bloat you'll never use. That's like the definition of Android. Why wouldn't/shouldn't Apple design it's software to all work together? It's a natural continuation of their products. If you want OS X to work seamlessly with Android you're in for a long, long wait, and then utter disappointment.

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Vista was a hot dumpster fire. This won't be. And so what about the new/old dock? How would you evolve it? Make it 4D?

 

Vista wasn't that bad... my main point is that it's funny to see Apple recycling a couple of ideas in particular that MS had implememnted, only to ditch a few years later.

 

Yeah, they could have done a lot better on the dock as far as aesthetics are concerned. Apple is known for its innovation, and right now, it looks childish and dated. Asside from that, and the god-awful neon blue folders, I actually think they've done a really good job. I can probably fix the dock and folders myself anyway...

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Yeah, the dock is hideous... That alone might keep me on mavericks forever (okay, I know, I'm being dramatic). I agree about all the iOS features of it, I could care less, I'm an android geek and I too am concerned about it taking up resources. Not to mention all the gaussian blur they have going on, that's got to use some processing power... 

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Um don't you get what I mean? I mean that it should look like a photograph instead of a cartoon. The UI should match with what it's doing, game center USED To look like a casino table, calender USED TO look like a real calender, Notes USED to look like legal yellow lined paper?

 

Well, no you said it should look "realistic", and I said there is no such thing as "realism" in this case. I agree with you that the style of the Icons is not too good, and I already said that. Especially in iOS7 there are many rather bad exmaples of icon design (all imho, but I also actually have studied design, and creating UIs is part of my daily job)

 

And yes, Calendar.app looked like a "real" calendar, but it was just a look, and the look did nothing for actual functionality, it was just decor and nothing else. And this "faux brown leather" one was a very bad design anyway (imho).

 

 

And iOS 7 maybe does have slight skeuomorphism but it rarely has it, it's just plain white everywhere. I've seen people give an excuse saying that we are familiar with computers and we don't need everything to look skeuomorphic so people can identify what it is because we all know what it is right now. But how is that an excuse to make everything look like a cartoon? I mean it wasn't that hard to tell what a button is without making it look like one. I honestly think even if people are moving to flat designs, they should atleast give an option to revert back to the skeuomorphic UI

 

Well, if I compare iOS 6 and 7 (I often have both running side by side), iOS6 feels like old cheese now ... just the same thing when I now look at the original Aqua Design from 2001. I mean striped backgrounds for menus? Again, just decor, and in this case even with negative usability impact. brrrrrr.

 

And there is another reason: if I do away with superfluous decoration, I can do a more clean and efficient design - which is good for usability. Just imagine a row of Icons. One time just the icons, in the other case with an additional beveled 3D border, dropshadow and whatnot. So, in the latter case, my interface is way more cluttered and also takes a good amount of extra space. Especially with complex UIs this can be a crucial point.

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What really pisses me off though is that most of the new features in Yosemite are targeted towards iOS users.

 

And as a strictly-Android type of person, that means this new update is just a pack of bloat that I'll never use.

I just hope all those new "features" don't hog the system resources.

 

And don't get me started on the transparency... JEEEZ

Well, the motivation is simple: they are trying to blur the border as much as possible between mobile and desktop. So they are going to integrate their systems as much as possible. But I'm sure you know that. :)

 

I'll be honest, what is mentioned about a seemingly less restricted nature of iOS 8 could convince me to possibly jump ship to an iPhone, if the hardware is good enough. But I'm not sure, if anything I'd probably wait another year. I'm loving my Xperia Z1S. It would take a lot for me to abandon Android altogether, I've grown to enjoy the OS greatly.

 

The transparency is debatable, but for me it all depends on the usability of the transparent UI.

 

Funny you're railing about bloat you'll never use. That's like the definition of Android. Why wouldn't/shouldn't Apple design it's software to all work together? It's a natural continuation of their products. If you want OS X to work seamlessly with Android you're in for a long, long wait, and then utter disappointment.

It's not the definition of Android, more like the definition of Samsung. I don't know what their problem is. Google phones are a lot better, as are the newer Sony phones. It's kind of like Windows: Windows itself is very simple, it's the manufacturers that bog everything down. Some are better than others both in phones and PCs.

 

Well, if I compare iOS 6 and 7 (I often have bothing running side by side), iOS6 feels like old cheese now ... just the same thing when I now look at the original Aqua Design from 2001. I mean striped backgrounds for menus? Again, just decor, and in this case even with negative usability impact. brrrrrr.

 

And there is another reason: if I do away with superfluous decoration, I can do a more clean and efficient design - which is good for usability. Just imagine a row of Icons. One time just the icons, in the other case with an additional beveled 3D border, dropshadow and whatnot. So, in the latter case, my interface is way more cluttered and also takes a good amount of extra space. Especially with complex UIs this can be a crucial point.

Oh, striped menus... :P

 

But you make a good point. In my case in particular, I was taken aback by iOS 7 when it was released. However, being a fairly faithful updater, I decided to give it a shot on my iPad, and now it feels natural. iOS 6 does seem dated and odd now, while iOS 7 feels just right. Which is really, really weird for me to say because I always prefer a 3D look (NOT skeumorphism per sé, but just the 3D look + shadows). And, again, Yosemite turns me off. But if/when I update, I will probably grow very accustomed to it.

 

On an educational note, it is easy to understand this whole move if you understand Jony Ive. I recently read a biography of Ive which was very insightful, I suggest you all who can obtain it to read it. Kahney goes into details of the design schools in Britain, and there was one thing in common: utter simplicity, no frills. For example, one entry exercise given to new students was to arrange furniture of simple defined shapes (pyramid, sphere, cube, etc.) in a square room in such a way that it could convey different emotions. They were taught to design something functional that would communicate a single feeling in the simplest way, which was often quite abstract. And, if you think about it from a design perspective, iOS 7 was a simplification: everything is flat, nothing out of place or without function, and laid in a geometric, abstract way. Perfectly in line with British industrial design thinking.

 

In addition, Jony designed everything in white. :D Says a lot not only about iOS 7, but all the white computers Apple produced between 2001-2009. (Thank the Lord Almighty that he didn't love beige...)

 

All this not to convince everyone to like this, I personally like a 3D look from a consumer's aesthetic perspective, but just to help everyone understand why Apple is going this direction. :) In fact, because Jobs and Ive were so closely knit, honestly if Jobs had placed Ive in the software design position he is in now (which may have happened) then it is very likely that the interfaces could have gone this direction anyway. I don't think everything's happening because Jobs is gone.

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 Kahney goes into details of the design schools in Britain, and there was one thing in common: utter simplicity, no frills. For example, one entry exercise given to new students was to arrange furniture of simple defined shapes (pyramid, sphere, cube, etc.) in a square room in such a way that it could convey different emotions. They were taught to design something functional that would communicate a single feeling in the simplest way, which was often quite abstract. And, if you think about it from a design perspective, iOS 7 was a simplification: everything is flat, nothing out of place or without function, and laid in a geometric, abstract way. Perfectly in line with British industrial design thinking.

 

It is not only in the spirit of British industrial design thinking, in essence this is the german bauhaus heritage! And I also was influenced by swiss design which is also famous for it's simplicity. And actually had swiss design teachers, and the first thing we were told was: "less is more".

 

This is not to say pure decoration is useless in any case. BUT: design is not about painting pretty pictures. Actually design - especially industrial und UI design - is NOT art, but has always a functional requirement - and therefore: form follows function and not the other way round.

 

Based on this thinking, the Yosemite UI is imho actually pretty good. Well, if you don't look at some icons ;)

 

 

Well, the motivation is simple: they are trying to blur the border as much as possible between mobile and desktop. So they are going to integrate their systems as much as possible.

 

At least we should be happy they did it not the way Microsoft did .... or else we would have the OS X equivalent of Win8 .... shudder ...

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Based on this thinking, the Yosemite UI is imho actually pretty good. Well, if you don't look at some icons ;)

 

At least we can still change those :-) whenever I set up a computer the first thing I do is change the icons. I agree I actually do quite like the ui, everything except the dock. Once dark mode is available my opinion about that might change, I'm hoping it may even eliminate the need for obsidian menu bar for me.

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At least we should be happy they did it not the way Microsoft did .... or else we would have the OS X equivalent of Win8 .... shudder ...

At least OS X has curves!! :D

 

I suppose that could be taken multiple ways... :P

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Vista wasn't that bad... my main point is that it's funny to see Apple recycling a couple of ideas in particular that MS had implememnted, only to ditch a few years later.

 

Yeah, they could have done a lot better on the dock as far as aesthetics are concerned. Apple is known for its innovation, and right now, it looks childish and dated. Asside from that, and the god-awful neon blue folders, I actually think they've done a really good job. I can probably fix the dock and folders myself anyway...

 

I agree with you (except on Vista) that it's not bad. I think a simple color change on the folders would help. Maybe a charcoal dark gray color. I love the menus and the translucency is nice IMO. The new login screen is gorgeous with the Yosemite background behind it.

 

It's not the definition of Android, more like the definition of Samsung. I don't know what their problem is. Google phones are a lot better, as are the newer Sony phones. It's kind of like Windows: Windows itself is very simple, it's the manufacturers that bog everything down. Some are better than others both in phones and PCs.

 

I'll concede that. Samsung is terrible for "feature" bloat. The only thing they ever added that I wanted was the wave to answer thing. Google experience phone are quite a bit better, but the UI still feels clunky to me. And if you're a Mac user forget about it. The tight integration alone sets iPhone leaps and bounds above Android. But that's just a byproduct of the ecosystem you want to be in. 

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I'll concede that. Samsung is terrible for "feature" bloat. The only thing they ever added that I wanted was the wave to answer thing. Google experience phone are quite a bit better, but the UI still feels clunky to me. And if you're a Mac user forget about it. The tight integration alone sets iPhone leaps and bounds above Android. But that's just a byproduct of the ecosystem you want to be in. 

Good thing we have ROMs! As far as integration as long as I have bookmark sync with Chrome and adb/fastboot I'm happy.

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Okay back to topic...

What could they possibly do to dashboard by the time yosemite's rolled out this fall?

Less skeumorphism? Or are they going to remove it. I mean that space is really important for me. It's like my room-but in the computer. I guess you can understand what I'm saying. That space is filled with all the things i need so, what do you guys think?

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In which case we'll have to create a petition. But they really can't.

The Web Clip idea? It's INGENIOUS! No one's ever though it up, and i'm having a hard time imagining how they'd have to integrate that feature and several others with notification center.

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