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Need CPU & Chipset advice for building a "HackPro"workstation

Workstation Dual CPU Ivy Bridge E

Best Answer Rampage Dev, 03 October 2013 - 09:40 PM

Here is my suggested build:

 

[attachment=129360:Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg.pdf]

 

All you have to do is find the items in your area. 

 

This system offers SAS III raid in Raid 10. The SAS card is bootable for mac as well but the SSD will be connected to the onboard SATA. 

 

Note to use the latest Ivy B E chips you need a modded kernel for the time being. Apple has been using internal builds of OS X on there new Mac Pro's so once that comes out there will no longer be a need to use the modded kernel. 

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#41
frankiee

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Yeah I know I need some PWM fans, but normally they have no temp sensors, so I just wondered if it would make sense to simply use the additional temp sensors on the R4E. So I could place one sensor near the drive bay for example, get the temp directly from there, and control the appropriate fan with the readings from that sensor. Thought that would be better than only relying on the  sensors on the mobo itself?



#42
Rampage Dev

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On my board the sensors work really well for my PWM fans. 



#43
frankiee

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On my board the sensors work really well for my PWM fans. 

 

OK, so you think adding some additional sensors is a mere luxury?

 

And as for the new Black Edition: did you already test it? Or can you say what is actually different on this board compared to the RIVE? Didn't see much information on the internet, but it also seems to have more SATA options and an upgraded audio chip. Both would be nice of course. Too bad that these newer boards - also think I would prefer the "E" version of the WS board to the older one - (still?) don't work that good. Think the next question would be if these are only software / BIOS problems, or some more fundamental ones.



#44
Rampage Dev

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OK, so you think adding some additional sensors is a mere luxury?

 

And as for the new Black Edition: did you already test it? Or can you say what is actually different on this board compared to the RIVE? Didn't see much information on the internet, but it also seems to have more SATA options and an upgraded audio chip. Both would be nice of course. Too bad that these newer boards - also think I would prefer the "E" version of the WS board to the older one - (still?) don't work that good. Think the next question would be if these are only software / BIOS problems, or some more fundamental ones.

 

Your going into a gray area if you get one of those boards... 



#45
frankiee

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Your going into a gray area if you get one of those boards... 

 

Yeah, I better avoid that. So, at least the R4 Black Edition is out of the equation for now - it isn't even released yet.

 

Also thought a bit about my storage options and have some questions about that. I decided to go all SSD at least for my commonly used data. Plus some "classic" HDDs for extra data (about 2-3TB needed) and Backup / Timemachine (about 3TB needed). I also wouldn't mind to get some quiet/cool ones, as HDD speed would be not a great issue with this config. I also forgot that I need a Bluray Burner, and I am also thinking about adding an additional front panel, that would give me Firewire, eSata and a card reader on the front, which would be quite convenient. Therefore I would also need a Mobo with a firewire header (like the WS) or a PCI card with an internal header (if I go for the R4E)

 

OK, now for my questions:

  • What would be a suitable Bluray burner? I actually modded my Mac Pro to attach a BH10LS30 from LG directly to SATA, and while it works OK, it has problems with sleep (ie does not sleep), and makes some seeking noises every 10 minutes or so. Of course I'd like to avoid this behavior with my new machine. Since the burner would be unused 99,99% of the time, it should sleep properly.
  • Why use a 840 EVO over a PRO? I am under the impression that the PRO seems to be more durable, and also maybe more stable/secure, since the EVO drives are relatively new, and therefore no long-term experience exists? But an advantage of the EVO would be much bigger sizes to choose from. Actually the 1TB price is pretty cheap imho.
  • I want dual boot, also with recovery partition. Would it be (much) less hassle to separate the 2 OS boot drives, instead of partitioning? But of course this would mean that another SATA port (and drive slot) is taken away. Not _too_ keen on that.
  • The only RAID option that might still make sense to me now is to put the Time Machine Backup on RAID1, for additional failure protection (and faster restores). Would this make sense? If yes, should I use a hardware raid, or software? Think with RAID1 a hardware solution won't offer much advantage, right?

As always, any help / insights appreciated!

 

PS: and can anyone recommend me a good forum dedicated to general PC building (cases, cable management, cooling etc)? I think I also would have a LOT of questions regarding building - I am a newbie, but want to get things right from the beginning, so asking is better than doing things the wrong way in the first place.



#46
joe75

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http://www.insanelym...d-overclocking/

 

You are on a forum of geeks with pc's!  Where better to ask?

 

http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/

 

bit-tech is also a good place for ideas or advice.

 

:moil:   :construction:



#47
frankiee

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http://www.insanelym...d-overclocking/

 

You are on a forum of geeks with pc's!  Where better to ask?

 

I hear you! Of course, if you won't mind answering to my bloody stupid rookie questions, I will gladly go ahead B)

 

Think I will open a new "build" thread anyway as soon as my build list is complete, to ask even more stupid questions, but also to share my experiences of course ;)



#48
PoloBear

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Try a USB Bluray Burner.

 

No sleep problem, no Sata Port needed, ans who uses that anyways? 



#49
frankiee

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Well, if I would like to have lots of external devices hanging around, I'd buy a new Mac Pro.

 

No, should be internal. And yes, sometimes I need it.



#50
Rampage Dev

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LG Bluray Burner that supports XL Bluray disks. Solid burner. 



#51
frankiee

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Yeah, my current one also supports 50GB disks, but has some (minor) problems I described above. So, which model would you recommend?



#52
frankiee

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I also have a specific question about the R4E. Rampagedev you said that you also control your temps with pwm fans. But how do you do it? I stumbled over this interesting thread, and I am a bit confused, bc they say (and seem also to prove) that the R4E fans are NOT pwm controlled (except one) but rather voltage controlled.

 

See here http://www.overclock...-iv-pwm-problem

 

Think that would make quite a difference, but is it true? The manual says otherwise, so I am really confused.



#53
Rampage Dev

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I also have a specific question about the R4E. Rampagedev you said that you also control your temps with pwm fans. But how do you do it? I stumbled over this interesting thread, and I am a bit confused, bc they say (and seem also to prove) that the R4E fans are NOT pwm controlled (except one) but rather voltage controlled.

 

See here http://www.overclock...-iv-pwm-problem

 

Think that would make quite a difference, but is it true? The manual says otherwise, so I am really confused.

 

Every last header is a PWM header. You need PWM Fans to make the PWM features work. All but 3 of my fans are PWM and the 3 that are not are Temp controlled fans. If you read what the end user was BSing about he was using a splitter on a PWM header which can actually cause a short on the board. Seen many people have issues with PWM splitters. 


Wrapped up testing on the E WS board today. All is well. 



#54
frankiee

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Thanks for clarification. Not so easy for me to decide what's BS and what's not. Just new to all of these things. But I never planned to use a splitter anyway, just attach each fan to it's own header, and - if possible - control them all independently by temperature. If I actually go for the R4E, I think I might even install an additional temp sensor (depending on the case, maybe near the HDDs for example) - and if only just for the fun of it ;)



#55
frankiee

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Wrapped up testing on the E WS board today. All is well. 

 

Great news! So now, the final shooutout will be between the P9X79-E WS and the R4E.

 

What I like about the WS is more SATA slots and of course the firewire header on the board, saving me an additional card. And, this FW card - if going for the R4E - should have an internal header, are there actually existing some which are also OS X compatible?

 

On the other hand, temp / sensor management seems to be way better on the R4E, the WS has only 4 non CPU fan headers (2 less than the R4E), and if I would choose the FT02, they all will be already occupied then. Plus, while they can also be PWM controlled, the only temp source really seems to be only the CPU, and I think this sucks, not what I imagined at least. So in this case, I might end with an additional separate fan controller instead. And, the WS has not much USB headers onboard. (think just 1)

 

To bad you can't get everything ....



#56
joe75

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frankiee, for easy reference, PWM headers or fans will be 4 pin



#57
frankiee

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frankiee, for easy reference, PWM headers or fans will be 4 pin

Yeah, at least this is one of the things I already know ;) But I have to admit I am still struggling quite a bit with the optimal cooling solution.

 

Also I am not sure if a R4E will really save me an additional fan controller. So my favorite case would be still the Silverstone FT02 (but also the Nanoxia DS and the Fractal Design XL R2 are on my list). This case uses a total of 4 fans (except CPU fans), and three of them are huge 180mm fans. I'd like to upgrade these to the Slverstopne AP182 fans, which are better.

 

Now, we have 4 fans, but only 3 "opt" fan headers on the mobo (which can be temperature controlled). So I might still need a splitter after all? Or is it possible with the R4E to use another header, lets say "chassis", but still use the sensor reading of an "opt" header as input at the same time?  I was under the impression that each "opt" can be only connected to it's own sensor, but since I don't have an actual BIOS to play with, I am not sure. Or are there additional sensors on the Mobo I could use? At least controlling a chassis fan directly via CPU temps still seems quite weird to me.

 

And apart from the fact that this fan also draws too much power (and needs am additional molex adapter) it is unfortunately only a voltage controlled fan. Read at least some reviews where using a PWM controller gave problems, and was not usable.

 

So, can I actually switch RPM control on the rampage IV extreme also to voltage control, or is it really PWM only?

 

I am also thinking about CPU cooling. While rampagedev recommended a h80i, I am not sure if I would do actually better with air cooling. At least a good tower cooler (Noctua NH-D14 for example) should give me both better cooling and way less noise. At least with the h80i the first thing I'd do is to replace the stock fans, which are rather loud. And I am also not _too_ keen about flowing liquids in my computer. Main drawback I see, however are the sheer size of these things, and the resulting clearance problems which may occur. I checked the RAM, and while it should fit, it may require removing the cooler I wanted to change something there. But cooling / noise ratio is way better than especially with smaller AIO coolers that seems to be a fact.

 

PS: and the WS-E fan control is really pathetic, seems the minimum duty cycle is a whopping 60% (compared to "0" on the R4E) .... this board would need a fan controller anyway I guess, also temps can be _only_ controlled by the CPU at least guessng from the manual - useless in my eyes. So the R4E might have a real advantage here, _if_ I can get my desired setup to work with it. And I am not sure about that yet, so any clarifications would be really helpful.



#58
joe75

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I personally don't know anything about the board. Using PWM or any controllers is strictly for noise control, some might claim to want added power management too but the draw from fans in very small. For actual cooling performance you'd want these fans full speed and ones that push the greatest amount of air which would also lead to increased noise. Any case fans would normally be left at full speed and there would be no problem using molex or splitters for them and this would free up headers for fans you might want controlled off PWM.

 

If your goals are for silence your best options with air are PWM on hardware fans and fan controllers or lower voltage fans for everything else.



#59
frankiee

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Well, the plan ist to have a completely automated, temperature controlled cooling with the actual controller being rather "low level", ie not controlled by an ordinary app or driver (would be difficult in OS X anyways) but rather by the BIOS or even via a dedicated controller. And I also like to have some sensors spread around, I think if the only temp input would be only the CPU, I can imagine it will sound like with the G5, where you only had to stress your CPU a little bit, and ALL fans were going on turbo immediatly, so that the machine sounded like a vaccum cleaner. The fans sometimes even ramped up when you were just scrolling a web page Oo. So certainly it should work better than that. Things like this can kill my whole experience ... So, proper and SILENT cooling would be very important for me.

 

Maybe rampagedev can help me a bit on this R4E specific topic? A bit diffcult to asses all this if you don't have a "real" BIOS to play with. Or is there such a thing like a BIOS simulator where I could play around a bit?



#60
tj5

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 My point was that no one needs "boot camp" on a PC because you can have a normal native install.

If you have a normal native install and you use parallels you can have it use the native windows installation as a boot camp vm. It will use the native ntfs drivers so you get a better disk i/o as well as native disk space so all installed programs are available for running native or thru parallels. I have my system setup that way and it works great. I rarely if ever boot windows natively anymore.







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