It's decision time, your opinions can help...

[br0adband]

Revision 1.0101010102

 

For the first time in my life, I'm going to be buying a brand new computer, and not just one, but two. The Wife is pretty set on the 17" iMac for the moment, that'll probably be a solid choice for her. She primarily chats with friends on Yahoo IM and does Dreamweaver and Fireworks stuff for some website designs, so the dual cores will most definitely help when she runs both those apps at the same time.

 

But for me, for just this one time, I'm going all out, finally.

 

So the 24" iMac is gonna be mine soon. It's not that much more expensive, really, and the boost in cost over the 20" is: the larger screen with the 1920x1200 resolution that I've been wanting for several years now so I have lots of screen space to play with, and the Nvidia 7300GT. The only question right now is should I spring for the 7600GT for $125 more. Common sense says "Just do it," but I'm not certain if they offer that version in the Apple Stores.

 

Plus, another benefit is (if it becomes necessary or cheaply available) the video card/chip in the 24" iMac is upgradeable, unlike all the other versions. Talk about cool... and here I was thinking it was just that 24" widescreen LCD that made that iMac special. Also, it seems the new iMacs just might have 11n wireless Airports in them. A lot of speculation going on these days - under OSX they're seen as 11b/g, but if you install Vista on an iMac it'll recognize the Airport as an 802.11n wireless adapter.

 

Again, I'm going to buy the best machine I can get locally at the Apple Store or at Fry's, or maybe at Century 23 which is a locally owned Apple-only computer shop that's been here for a long long time. Perhaps I should deal with them and get a relationship started. We'll see what happens.

 

The RAM issue is still something I'll handle myself, and no, upgrading the RAM on Apple computers does not void the warranty - not even on the Mac minis which are pretty tough to open if you don't have a putty knife.

 

bb

[mac-mini]

good choice

 

and mac minis are pretty easy to open without a putty knife but the bottom will have some scratches

[non sequitur]

nice, the 24 inch is amazing. bigger IS better in this case.

[br0adband]

Just a small update:

 

I called the Apple Store here in Vegas earlier (I'll be visiting tonight I think just to play around with the hardware). I was told that yes there is a big difference in pricing between BTO stuff online and getting the RAM upgrade in the store - they do not do video or hard drive upgrades in Apple Stores, only RAM upgrades - so that was a bit disappointing.

 

Even more irritating was the fact that they're out of stock on the 1GB sticks, and because of it the "Genius" couldn't even tell me what the price would be. It seems when they do the upgrade they do give you the 2x256MB sticks that come stock, they don't keep them. They're part of the pricing for the basic default configuration so you get them either way, so that's a plus in some respects, I guess.

 

But not even being able to get a price on the work/parts pissed me off. I'll ask again if I visit the store tonight, maybe someone there can hint at the actual cost. Besides, since I can't get these iMacs till next week - I keep checking my bank account, the money is there but the balance still says $0 available because of the hold... bastards.

 

So, just a small update in my "switch."

 

bb

[sandmanfvrga]

Damn man, I have been wishy washy before (and drove many crazy), but you are really wishy washy.

 

The stores are probably hiring dumbasses off the street that know some stuff, but don't have any degrees or at least some certifications they have taken classes/training courses to know what they are talking about. Not know the price is retarded, it should be in the damn database. Hell every store I have went to, even clothes stores, can tell you that. On the money, I would seriously get me a lawyer and let that bank know not to f*** with my money anymore.

 

On the upgradability of the 24" iMacs, is that confirmed and if it is, where is the info? Thanks.

[br0adband]

Upgradeable GPU in the 24" iMacs

 

No guarantees about it so far, but I'll bet that's what it is and it is upgradeable since it's basically a laptop part anyway. We'll see...

 

bb

[sandmanfvrga]

So no definate on the upgradability? Hopefully it is true. Good luck on your 24inch!

[br0adband]

Well, the issue is the MXM stuff isn't publicly available, and there is a considerable amount of doubt as to whether Apple can or even will allow people to upgrade later on.

 

Right now I'd say "No, they won't" because it that really was the plan, to allow upgrades, then the video chip/card/whatever MXM part would be in a user accessible spot in the iMac, and currently the only thing that is is the RAM. Go figure.

 

I'm considering getting a Raptor for mine, however. Might try that at some point to get a nice boost in overall system performance, even if it's tough to get into the things.

 

bb

[ignorantcow]

ignorantcow, calling the Macbook a "toy" is kind of harsh. The iBooks looked that them and they were great for new pro users. Yes the pros have more screen size but are more to carry. Really in truely the only spec that makes a difference in performance/what you can run on the thing, is the graphics card.

I am not talking about, and would care less about the specs. I know there isn't that much of a difference. I said the macbook looks like a toy. As in, the exterior, the color, the finish. Not the hardware. The MPB is a mere 0.18kg heavier than the MB, which is not even a 200gram difference. So it is not "more to carry" as you incorrectly claim.

[br0adband]

Ok, Revision 2.0 Final

 

Unless something drastic happens in terms of pricing in the next few days, this is it.

 

My dream PC, within reason. My "Godbox" as it were. Read it and weep, because this is my PC of a lifetime with 30 years of working on 'em as payment for it:

 

I've decided, as I stated in the previous posting(s) that I consider this a once-in-a-lifetime chance to get the best machine I can afford. Realistically, I could do this and max it out totally, but that wouldn't leave much of the "inheritance" left for the other stuff I and my Wife want to do, so while some people will look upon my final decision I'm about to share as ludicrous, insane, and completely off the wall, that's fine.

 

But I earned this, with years and years and years of being the guy that always fixed the VCRs from flashing "12:00AM", that always fixed the car stereos, the Walkmans, the TVs, the CD players, the radios, etc. And fixing computers, good lord, don't even get me started on all the {censored} I've been through and continue to put up with daily - but...

 

I'm the Geek Supreme in many respects, in ways I can't adequately explain in a simple forum posting, but... I can tell you what my next computer is going to be made of.

 

Ladies and gentleman, I present my final decision.

 

The Apple MacPro

 

Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon

4GB (4 x 1GB)

250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)

One 16x SuperDrive

Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme

Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English

Mac OS X - U.S. English

 

Display duties will be handled by:

 

Two 20.1" Samsung 1680x1050 LCDs w/DVI attached to the ATI X1900 XT

 

"And that's all folks..."

 

I'll add more 250GB drives purchased locally and set up a RAID subsystem for storage and increased performance, and I'll add some odds and ends later. I really wanted to go for 8GB of RAM, but it's $1400 more that the current 4GB configuration (and that's 8x1GB, if I wanted 4x2GB it's $1600 more), and while I'm a bit nuts to buy 4GB at the price Apple is charging, I really don't care and I want the machine as configured above. In time the RAM prices should come down and I'll add more when it does.

 

People are already asking me "What on <insert higher power name here>'s green earth would make you want to spend that much money? What do you do that needs that kind of power? You're insane."

 

Well, I've been tinkering around - primarily because of the speed of my current hardware (my much abused and much loved Dell Inspiron 4150 laptop, which hasn't let me down yet and is still as reliable as it was when I first got it, and I'm very happy I did) and the limitations it has.

 

Basically, that means for the stuff I want to do it's slow.

 

The stuff I want to do:

 

- Play some games at the highest possible resolution with the fastest freakin' video card I can get, and the X1900XT will fill that niche nicely

- Do some real 3D work for a change, without having to wait hours to render a simple 3D scene I've created in Maya/3DStudio/etc

- Do some High Definition video work, something I haven't even tried yet because, well, my trusty Dell here I'm typing on is slow in the tooth, sad to say

- Generally be able to say I've got a monster freakin' machine and I earned it

 

There are many other reasons, of course. I've always wanted to have that machine that I didn't have to think about, the machine that I knew was rock solid and dependable, that laughed at whatever I threw at it and was ready for more, that would last a long time (in the computer world, "a long time" is 2 years or more, so this Dell laptop is ancient and yet it's still trustworthy and valuable to me.

 

This isn't a spur of the moment decision as some might think. It's been a progression of sorts, this entire buying/researching/window shopping/researching/dreaming/researching cycle. And now that cycle is complete, and I have to say, as I'm typing these letters I know it's a decision I can finally say to myself is the right one, once and for all.

 

No turning back now.

 

The Wife will get her 20" iMac next week as I promised her, with whatever upgrades she wants. We'll spend some money on comfortable chairs for ourselves since we spend a great deal of time at desks - and we'll probably get new desks also.

 

She's planning to do more web design stuff soon, and she's deserved a great computer of her own for as long as I've known her and even before that, so, I hope she's going to be happy with her brand new 20" iMac next week.

 

I'll grab the iPod and earbuds I want when we get her iMac, but the MacPro has to be ordered online, so it'll be awhile before I get my hands on it and run it through its paces. The LCDs I'll purchase here in town locally, they're about $299 each at Fry's here in Las Vegas.

 

The final price for the MacPro as configured above is $3928 and I'll probably end up paying sales tax since Nevada hits me for 7.75% - the grand total for just the computer is $4232.42 give or take a few bucks either way.

 

Let's hope "It just works..."

 

Thanks for all your kind words and comments and answers... wish me luck as I take a big leap of faith in my (and my Wife's) future.

 

bb

[sandmanfvrga]

Ok, "looking like a toy" is harsh in my opinion. Weight might not be that much more, but wit th 17 inch MBP you need bigger bags etc.

 

 

br0adband, I need to smack you! You changed again. Well the Mac Pro is the grand daddy and you are totally right, you don't need to upgrade. Though I will say this: please get a second superdrive. If you copy dvds or any optical disc you will have to copy to the hard drive and then to the superdrive again. Unless you don't do that much, but if you are a geek like me then dual drives are a must.

[Bearcat]

Ok, Revision 2.0 Final

 

The Apple MacPro

 

Nice Choice,

 

And when this puppy becomes too slow for you in a couple of years, plop in 2 Clovertown 4 core monsters and away you go for another couple of years. :-)

 

Enjoy

[br0adband]

Nice Choice,

 

And when this puppy becomes too slow for you in a couple of years, plop in 2 Clovertown 4 core monsters and away you go for another couple of years. :-)

 

Enjoy

 

Exactly. Me being a Geek Supreme means if I didn't get something that I can actually use for a long time with upgrades and such, I'd end up regretting it. Right now, looking at the specs, and what I'm getting - and yes that god awful price tag - I'm happy with it, and excited about finally getting my hands on it so I can test it three ways from Sunday and benchmark the hell out of it and document it all for everyone's perusal.

 

And yes, I'll be getting a digital camera to record the "ritual unpacking" for everyone also. I'm not one to break tradition even if I've been a PC/Windows man for pretty much my entire career.

 

Also, the price has changed a bit: I decided to add the Bluetooth/Airport option since I've got wireless at home, and I also added the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse to use the Bluetooth option I just added. So it's about $4350-ish and that's all she wrote.

 

Whew... I think I'm done now.

 

bb

 

ps

Gotta change my avatar again... wonder if Intel updated the dual core Xeon logo...

 

pss

I'll pick up a good DVD-ROM here in town someplace, no need for dual burners. Just something for reading CDs and DVDs to do one-to-one on-the-fly copying, and thanks for the reminder, sandman...

[Zealot]

Ok, "looking like a toy" is harsh in my opinion. Weight might not be that much more, but wit th 17 inch MBP you need bigger bags etc.

br0adband, I need to smack you! You changed again. Well the Mac Pro is the grand daddy and you are totally right, you don't need to upgrade. Though I will say this: please get a second superdrive. If you copy dvds or any optical disc you will have to copy to the hard drive and then to the superdrive again. Unless you don't do that much, but if you are a geek like me then dual drives are a must.

 

amen to that brother geeks!

[sandmanfvrga]

Yeah, at least get a dvd rom so you can copy stuff faster.

[br0adband]

Just thought I'd post an update. I'm going to modify the system a bit, keep some stuff, drop some stuff, but the heart and soul of it still beats pretty loud. This is the current configuration and the one I will more than likely stick with unless Apple does post some refurbs for less sometime next week:

 

==============================================

 

DATE SAVED: 09/30/06 - 08:12 PM Pacific Standard Time

 

SAVED ITEMS:

 

Part Number: Z0D8

Product Name: Mac Pro

Options:

065-6355 Two 2.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon

065-6413 4GB (4 x 1GB)

065-6363 ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)

065-6409 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

065-6507 Two 16x SuperDrives

065-6725 Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme

065-6287 Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English

065-6245 Mac OS X - U.S. English

065-6244 Accessory kit

Unit Price: $3,728.00

Quantity: 1

Net Price: $3,728.00

Estimated time to ship: 2-4 business days

 

SUBTOTAL: $3,728.00

(WITH TAX: ~$4016.92)

 

Total does not include any applicable sales tax.

Promotion Savings are subject to verification.

 

(WITH TAX: ~$4016.92)

 

===============================================

 

That should work nicely, doncha think? Just barely cracked the $4K border and it has dual Superdrives so I can really be productive when ripp-- errr... backing up our DVDs... Yeah, that's it.

 

 

Have a great weekend, folks...

bb

[Bearcat]

Just thought I'd post an update. I'm going to modify the system a bit, keep some stuff, drop some stuff, but the heart and soul of it still beats pretty loud. This is the current configuration and the one I will more than likely stick with unless Apple does post some refurbs for less sometime next week:

 

==============================================

 

DATE SAVED: 09/30/06 - 08:12 PM Pacific Standard Time

 

SAVED ITEMS:

 

Part Number: Z0D8

Product Name: Mac Pro

Options:

065-6355 Two 2.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon

065-6413 4GB (4 x 1GB)

065-6363 ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)

065-6409 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

065-6507 Two 16x SuperDrives

065-6725 Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme

065-6287 Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English

065-6245 Mac OS X - U.S. English

065-6244 Accessory kit

Unit Price: $3,728.00

Quantity: 1

Net Price: $3,728.00

Estimated time to ship: 2-4 business days

 

SUBTOTAL: $3,728.00

(WITH TAX: ~$4016.92)

 

Total does not include any applicable sales tax.

Promotion Savings are subject to verification.

 

(WITH TAX: ~$4016.92)

 

===============================================

 

That should work nicely, doncha think? Just barely cracked the $4K border and it has dual Superdrives so I can really be productive when ripp-- errr... backing up our DVDs... Yeah, that's it.

 

 

Have a great weekend, folks...

bb

 

Hate to be a pest.

 

Are you sure you want to do this? Going from a 2.6ghz to a 2.0ghz processor, is almost a 30% decrease in performance. I know it's a percentage but that means each one of your 4 processors is almost 30% slower.

[br0adband]

Bearcat:

 

You have a very good point. After a bit more consideration on the options, I came to this conclusion:

 

I really want 4GB of RAM but Apple's pricing is a bit high at this moment. I've spent most of the weekend so far doing the necessary research and reading. While I can't find a decent price anywhere for memory that is up to spec - Apple is VERY picky about saying what will and won't work in the MacPro, especially where the heat issues are concerned - I'll look at this as a learning process before I even place my order.

 

So, having said that, this is the current config and then I'll explain my decision to modify the original one:

 

================================================================

 

DATE SAVED: 10/01/06 - 06:51 AM Pacific Standard Time

 

SAVED ITEMS:

 

Part Number: Z0D8

Product Name: Mac Pro

Options:

065-6352 Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon

065-6358 2GB (4 x 512MB)

065-6363 ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)

065-6690 160GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

065-6251 One 16x SuperDrive

065-6287 Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English

065-6245 Mac OS X - U.S. English

065-6244 Accessory kit

Unit Price: $2,974.00

Quantity: 1

Net Price: $2,974.00

Estimated time to ship: 2-4 business days

 

SUBTOTAL: $2,974.00

 

(WITH TAX: ~$3,204.49)

 

===============================================================

 

I went back to the stock 2.66 GHz processors since the price difference for those was less than the performance difference and by that I mean this:

 

2.0 GHz processors drop the price by $300; that translates to a 12% price drop (roughly) for a 30% drop in performance, something that after Bearcat's comment struck me as quite idiotic.

 

/me smacks himself a few times with some rather expensive FB-DIMMs...

 

So, the stock CPUs are the ticket, because looking at it backwards now it works out like this:

 

For $300 more (a cost increase of about 11-12% roughly) I'm getting that 30% boost in power/speed. Got it? Good. And Bearcat, thanks for giving me something to think about.

 

I decided 2GB is enough RAM for the present time so I can get the machine and have at it. The 4GB option adds $800 to the cost, and I'm not going to do a price to performance breakdown on the RAM since that kind of measurement isn't really possible. Suffice to say I've been playing around with OSx86 on this old Dell laptop of mine, still trusty, and watching my RAM usage so far with the stuff I normally do.

 

I know it's not a really fair comparison for several reasons: I don't run any of the big apps included in iLife, but I plan to later on. I have installed iLife06 in the past, but iWeb doesn't work for me (it uses OpenGL for some rendering, hence this non-CI/QE video card in the Dell says "No way in hell) and iWeb just crashes.

 

I get the same results when trying to run Pages, part of iWork. Insta-crash, and it's always video driver related. I have messed with iPhoto, and I think I'll get into it a lot more later when I get the MacPro, and Garage Band also. Hell, I plan to mess with everything in iLife06 and then I'll get started on iWork also.

 

I dropped the 250GB drive for the 160GB option. Currently I have an 80GB drive in this laptop and most of the time I follow this criteria: if it's worth the time to download it, it's worth the time to burn it, so most stuff gets burned as soon as it's downloaded and extracted/verified. This goes for pretty much everything I have, and I've been doing that for years now, no sense changing on account of owning a Mac.

 

Besides, the 250GB Seagate 7200.10 (the newer drives with perpendicular recording) can be had for roughly $100 each these days, so in time I expect to get more. I might go for another 160GB actually, and then locate a Raptor for the system drive.

 

Someone offered that suggestion at another forum the other day: instead of using the "big mother" drives with copious amounts of space, get a Raptor - at least the 74GB drive since the original 36GB Raptor is a bit small for a system drive loaded for bear - and the system performance overall for daily operation will obviously improve.

 

No sense arguing with the bare facts, so I'll be on the lookout for a 74GB Raptor I can slide into that kickass drive bay on the MacPro, with one or more 160GB 7200.10 Seagates for RAID loving space. Since I plan to do video work in HD at some point, I'll worry about the RAID specifics in due time.

 

I dropped the second Superdrive because, well, I can buy one locally and get a better deal. I'm currently considering getting a LightScribe drive because, well... they're cool as hell actually. And my handwriting sucks most of the time - it would be pretty awesome to just be creative and make the labels to burn on the LightScribe media.

 

Yes, I know that media is a bit more expensive, but it's actually getting more popular as time goes by, so the price will come down. I really don't care how much they cost, it's just something I'm considering at present.

 

Dropped the wireless keyboard/mouse a while back now that I think about it. I recently got my hands on a Microsoft mouse/keyboard combo, the Bluetooth setup (they have two that are fully OSX compatible) and one of those will be on my desktop soon.

 

So, looking back, that's about the latest and greatest, and the reasoning behind it. Hopefully RAM for this monster will drop at some point, and maybe - just maybe I'll get lucky and hop on it right off. I'm gunning for the 4GB mark, more would be better obviously but 4GB I think is a sweet spot for me. With 2GB, I'm halfway there. Another 4x512MB wouldn't hurt, that's for sure.

 

The ~$800 or so I'm saving with the configuration above will be put to other uses like the 80GB iPod and the Shure E3g earbuds... that's about $530 right there before tax. The rest might cover the cost of a networkable black & white laser printer I'm trying to find, or it could cover the cost of a digital camera (or most of the cost).

 

A question for anyone reading this: if you know of a good laser printer that offers networkability, preferably HP, and you have experience with said printer let me know will ya. There are several out there, but I'm trying to keep the costs down so I've got more to spread around on the little things like accessories, paper, toner, etc. Color is out of the question, I just don't need it (I sortakinda explained this early on in this thread).

 

Thanks for reading...

bb

[asap18]

wouldnt you want to get 2x1 gb of ram since ud be able it upgrade it more in the years to come.

[br0adband]

They don't offer the 2x1GB option, just 4x512MB for a total of 2GB. I wish they did, but the reason behind that is the FB-DIMMs need to be installed in sets of 4 to maintain the 256 bit wide memory bus to get that 21GB/s (yes, that's 21 Gigabytes per second) of bandwidth.

 

You can run the machine with any single stick in any slot, or two, or three, or four or whatever you want. But if you don't put in RAM in multiples of 4 like 4x512, or 4x1, 4x2, 8x1, 8x2, then you suffer the penalty of losing that tremendous memory bandwidth and basically hamstring the performance.

 

So it's fine with 4x512MB anyway. 512MB FB-DIMMs are almost affordable, and if I could locate some place with decent pricing on 4x512MB sticks that match the memory I'm getting (I don't know specifically what brand of RAM comes in the MacPro, I probably won't till I actually get it and open the case at home), then I'd buy more from that source.

 

We'll see what happens, but I'm not about to cripple this box in any way unless I simply have no other choice. If I really wanted to, believe it or not, I could order 16GB of RAM but that's truly overkill for me. Maybe 5 years from now it'll be cheap.

 

bb

[A Nonny Moose]

For a whiole lot less than $4000, you can get a good G5 quad (which MacWorld shows it's a contender against the 2.6 Xeon) from the refurb section.

[non sequitur]

A question for anyone reading this: if you know of a good laser printer that offers networkability, preferably HP, and you have experience with said printer let me know will ya. There are several out there, but I'm trying to keep the costs down so I've got more to spread around on the little things like accessories, paper, toner, etc. Color is out of the question, I just don't need it (I sortakinda explained this early on in this thread).

 

Thanks for reading...

bb

my school had a networked hp laser b&w printer... the thing i would hear our computer tech guy (he was really good with computers) rant about the most was the suckyness of the networked hp hooked up to the macs. somehitng about detection and drivers and what not. just someting to keep in mind.

if you really wnated it, i dont have the model number, so i cant help much more.

[br0adband]

For a whiole lot less than $4000, you can get a good G5 quad (which MacWorld shows it's a contender against the 2.6 Xeon) from the refurb section.

 

In this day and age, with Apple fully on the Intel platform because it's the lifeblood of the company now, and you're suggesting that I spend a huge lump of money on old outdated (yes it's still relatively powerful but...) technology that is falling to the wayside?

 

I wouldn't dream of it.

 

I said for the first time in my life I'm buying a brand new computer, the first one ever in 30+ years of almost daily use of computers, having owned over 100+ combined desktops and laptops. I'm not buying old tech, forget that. :censored2:

 

Can't believe someone suggested that, but hey, surprise surprise I guess.

 

bb

[sandmanfvrga]

Get a G5? You crazy? Yeah is paying alot of money, but that is for two computers. The new Mac Pro isn't really overpriced and you got QUAD 64bit processing. Plus you can boot into XP or Vista to game. Can't do that on a G5.

[A Nonny Moose]

In this day and age, with Apple fully on the Intel platform because it's the lifeblood of the company now, and you're suggesting that I spend a huge lump of money on old outdated (yes it's still relatively powerful but...) technology that is falling to the wayside?

 

I wouldn't dream of it.

 

It isn't falling by the wayside. Many people still use their G5 and G4 systems and they continue to have life for mnay years to come.