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#241
lsdelirious

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I've always regarded piracy as an unofficial "try before you buy" none of the big packages would have their marketshare & reputation today without it. Just think: how many home users would have & know photoshop without an illicit copy?..


exactly! I learned using a "borrowed" copy of Photoshop, took a few classes, and because I was able to display proficiency to my employer in PS, they bought me a copy of CS2. After a few more classes I was able to show them I could use Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Flash, Premiere and After Effects, and then they shelled out another $2000 to upgrade me to CS3 Master Suite. Since then I've trained a few other employees on Dreamweaver, and we've bought 5 more copies, and also upgraded several users to newer versions of Acrobat (v7+) so they could use the LiveCycle dynamic forms I've created.

All in all my "piracy" has given them over $4000+ in sales they never would have gotten... and if ever I branch out on my own and start doing freelance jobs, I'll use that initial money from the first few jobs to get my own legit copy of CS3/4 Master Suite.

As for windows, I refuse to pay for a 2nd copy of software that came with my machine just because the PC manf. decided a recovery partition was an acceptable alternative to an actual recovery disk!

I would gladly buy a legal copy of OSX if Apple would revise their EULA...

#242
Master Chief

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I would gladly buy a legal copy of OSX if Apple would revise their EULA...

That's an absolutely hidious statement, and you know that don't you? Apple's EULA only states that you should not install it on non-Apple hardware, not that you shouldn't buy a license when you install it! Is that what you use to lie to yourself, to save some bucks?

Would you work for an employer who only pays you when they like your work.. at a time when it suites them best? I guess not.

I'm so glad that my children know right from wrong, so that they don't become another loser. What BEEP is wrong with people these days?

Notes: The Apple EULA is void in many countries, including most of Europe, but this should never be a reason to not buy their software/OS. Period. And if you can't afford it, stop smoking, doing illegal drugs and drinking tons of alcohol... or better get a real job (this in general, not tailored to this specific poster).

For me was having a hackintosh a necessity (for my editorial work) but it became another hacking hobby, and yes I even bought a separate license for my hack. Get a grip people, piracy is an economical crime and is usually punished even harder than the usual ordinary theft.

#243
lsdelirious

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That's an absolutely hidious statement, and you know that don't you? Apple's EULA only states that you should not install it on non-Apple hardware, not that you shouldn't buy a license when you install it! Is that what you use to lie to yourself, to save some bucks?

No, I haven't yet bought a copy because: (pick one)
a.) I've only had my hackintosh running for about a week, not even sure if I'll keep OSX or if I'll get bored of it.
b.) I'd rather save my money to donate to sites like Insanelymac ; )
c.) I'd be stupid to run out and buy a copy of 10.5 now when Snow Leopard is about to drop any day now.
d.) I have a hard time giving my money to a company that would call me a criminal for not buying additional products.
e.) all of the above

Would you work for an employer who only pays you when they like your work.. at a time when it suites them best? I guess not.

Except for in your scenario, it would be like I was telling my employer they could only use my work in a specific manor that I pre-approve or forbid them from using it in combination with another employee's work.

I think a more appropriate analogy would be not paying vehicle registration while driving a car without a license. I'm already breaking the law by driving in the first place, so making sure my fees are paid won't help me in court. Sure I'll be in more trouble for 2 violations, but then maybe I'd rather save my money for a good defense lawyer should I get pulled over :D

I'm so glad that my children know right from wrong, so that they don't become another loser.

Let's just hope you also teach your children to be tolerant of differing opinions, instead of labeling people "losers" because you don't agree with their point of view.

For me was having a hackintosh a necessity (for my editorial work) but it became another hacking hobby, and yes I even bought a separate license for my hack.

So because you needed to run Mac editing software and didn't want to spend $3000, paying $129 makes it all good? Is that the lie you tell yourself, to save some bucks in not buying a Genuine Mac? :)

Don't kid yourself, if you wound up in court for violating their EULA, Apple isn't going to take it easy on you because you bought OSX, because after all it's not a retail license, its an upgrade, an upgrade which you have no way of legally obtaining for use with your Hackintosh.

And that's all I'm saying, is give me the option to legally outright purchase the OS separately and you'll get money from me you otherwise never would have received in the form of a Mac purchase. But don't expect me feel guilty for having a "pirated" evaluation copy of something you say I'm not allowed to use anyways...

#244
Master Chief

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Let's just hope you also teach your children to be tolerant of differing opinions, instead of labeling people "losers" because you don't agree with their point of view.

Did I say that you are a loser? Let me re-read my writing. Yeah, that didn't came out right. I'm sorry for that slip. It wasn't meant to be that personal, not at all.

So because you needed to run Mac editing software and didn't want to spend $3000, paying $129 makes it all good? Is that the lie you tell yourself, to save some bucks in not buying a Genuine Mac? :)

Eh no. I did pay a lot more for my MacPro (see sig) and still bought the retail pack for my editorial work. And two more Mac's have been ordered already. We're pretty happy Apple campers so to speak (getting ready to leave the Navy in a couple of months).

Don't kid yourself, if you wound up in court for violating their EULA, Apple isn't going to take it easy on you because you bought OSX, because after all it's not a retail license, its an upgrade, an upgrade which you have no way of legally obtaining for use with your Hackintosh.

I'm fully in the clear, but I am not going into detail here (signed the publishers NDA).

And that's all I'm saying, is give me the option to legally outright purchase the OS separately and you'll get money from me you otherwise never would have received in the form of a Mac purchase. But don't expect me feel guilty for having a "pirated" evaluation copy of something you say I'm not allowed to use anyways...

This is not about making you feel guilty, and it should have been a friendly reminder to do the right thing, but I failed because I was in too much of a hurry. Sorry for that.

Please note that I am not an administrator here, nor anywhere else for that matter. And maybe that's just a good thing, and it was probably just my job life that spoke up again (do a search on Master Chief, it's a Navy thing).

In fact I go out in 29 minutes to drill people again (it's 4:31am here already).

#245
lsdelirious

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Did I say that you are a loser? Let me re-read my writing. Yeah, that didn't came out right. I'm sorry for that slip. It wasn't meant to be that personal, not at all.


no worries man, I'm not the type to take forum posts all personal - and I have seen you posting in several other spots, so I got respect for you as an actively contributing member

maybe once I can get a retail install working, then I might just buy a copy even if just not to have the same serial number as 50,000 other people lol

But of course in order to really test drive OS X, you need software - which is kinda hard to do without pirating, at least initially, since you're not going to spend $600 on Final Cut if you don't even know if you're machine will run it properly :D

although I suppose you could always just buy the software first and if you can't get it working, the store can't refuse a refund for open software since you have the right to disagree with Apple's EULA for a full refund :D

#246
Duncan Bayne

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Some don't even think about it any more. For them, piracy is the only way to get software.

That is completely untrue; I'm writing this using Firefox (free) running on Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic (also free), which in turn depends upon a whole bunch of software including GNU, Linux and the FVWM window manager, all of which are ... free.

Now, I'm probably biased, given that I'm invested in anti-piracy software (the company I co-founded produces a software licensing solution for .NET) but I don't think "it's the only way" is a valid excuse for the unauthorized copying of software.

If you want free software there is plenty of it around ... if not, then pay for it. Can't afford Photoshop? Use Gimp. Can't afford Microsoft Office? Use OpenOffice. Etc. etc. etc. ...

#247
Giorgio_multi

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That is completely untrue; I'm writing this using Firefox (free) running on Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic (also free), which in turn depends upon a whole bunch of software including GNU, Linux and the FVWM window manager, all of which are ... free.

Now, I'm probably biased, given that I'm invested in anti-piracy software (the company I co-founded produces a software licensing solution for .NET) but I don't think "it's the only way" is a valid excuse for the unauthorized copying of software.

If you want free software there is plenty of it around ... if not, then pay for it. Can't afford Photoshop? Use Gimp. Can't afford Microsoft Office? Use OpenOffice. Etc. etc. etc. ...


I absolutely agree!

This is the right way.

Giorgio

#248
will1384

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For me it started as a kid, in the mid 90s, I would go to the store and buy a computer game,
and later that night I try to install only to find out that it would not work or it sucked, even
though I had a system that was better than the clearly listed "recommended hardware and
software" and the images on the box were also misleading

Same thing with CDs, listen to a cool song on the radio, go and buy that CD only to find
that's the only good song

I started downloading everything, and only if I liked it, would I go and buy it,
over half my Anime collection is that way, I downloaded and watched it before
I got it on DVD, I hate sad endings :)

But even when I do buy games I often have to download a crack or patch, and because of
that, it makes it easier to just use the pirated copy in the first place, and when you beat
the game in 3 days or less and it has no re-play value, its most likely not going to get paid for

As far as Photoshop, I have "downloaded" it over the years and every time there was something
ether free or cheap that was easier and faster for me to use, I had a chance to get a educational
discount that would have put it way under $200, I did not think it was worth the money

BTW I love Gimp, Inkscape, and Paint.net

I did buy Mac OS X Snow Leopard and Windows 7, in fact I own at least 1 copy of every
Windows back to 3.1 except NT and ME, gave ME away LOL, and I even own a retail
PPC version of Mac OS X Tiger

#249
Timdphotos

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im too young to buy a lot of the software i want so i have to pirate it, however i do know several
people who own photoshop legit. I do not believe in Stealing physical products as right, but something
virtual that you would not be able to get anyway, if you steal it then surely that is no loss to the maker of
that product? Even if i can buy the product from a shop sometimes its to much hassle to do so.
for example i walked into a shop to buy Assasins Creed , I am old enough to buy it and had the correct amount of
money, I tried to buy it and the person at the till asked for my passport! i said sorry so my friend had his ID card
(he was old enough as well) and they said sorry we need your passport! sometimes its a lot easier to get things
through piracy


I also own legit Snow Leopard on a Legit Macbook Pro.(i do get stuff sometimes i just cant)

#250
iGoBOOM

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If I illegally download software like Photoshop, it's not because I don't want to pay for it, it's simply I don't have £569.99 with my being in school and all that. Now, I don't see this as theft as I define theft as taking the property of someone, and they no longer have it. Considering Adobe still have Photoshop, and Adobe have not missed out on a sale as I plain and simply can't afford it, I don't see it as a heinous crime.

Likewise, if I download a PS1 game that I could pick up for £.99 in town, I feel that's fine, as I'm quite sure CEX can afford to miss out on a quid.

While pirating is illegal, it's a means to an end for some, just a cheap way out for others, or it's something to avoid, have fun working out where you stand on that.

#251
peanutismint

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I tend to agree. People can argue til the cows come home on the legalities of 'file sharing', but I think the bottom line is, it IS illegal but you can get away with it and there are many shades of grey in the legal spectrum. I do it. We all do it. It's just not the same as stealing a car, so I think any attempt to 'punish' it in the same way as other crime is pointless.

I used to download movies out the wazoo whilst broke in high school. Then when I could afford to buy, and realised how much joy owning legal copies of my favourite films on DVD brought, I started a collection. I think if you don't want to pay for stuff that the wonders of the internet can bring you for 'free', then don't worry about it. You're not 'killing the music industry', you're just enjoying the internet.

#252
m4778

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i dont think that piracy is necessarily a bad thing, i think it is just different. meaning it will change the way we use computers. Maybe if everyone continues to pirate, everything will go open source (debatable good or bad)

#253
Ranguvar

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http://stallman.org/...on-sharing.html

Stallman is much better at explaining than I am..

#254
UrbanTechGuerrilla

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Piracy, that ever contentious topic. :D

In all honesty I can admit that I've used pirated software (and still do on occasion, ahem). Though increasingly I've moved towards finding free alternatives and I and have purchased legal copies of programs, because to me, something that's worth using deserves to be paid for. Irrespective of whether a multi-national giant is involved or not. If it fulfils your needs, pay up.

The irony is that software piracy has propelled the sales of machines throughout modern computing. Without piracy, I doubt we'd have the proliferation of IT that we see now. Back in the late 80s, early 90s my school-friends would convince me to upgrade from my 6502/Z80 hardware to the 68000 based computers that were popular in Europe because they'd be able to supply me with a massive resource of software for the price of a floppy.

99% of my involvement in software piracy today stems from people around me asking for assistance in obtaining copies, I rarely do it for myself, due to the reasons stated earlier.

Everyone has been party to or overheard a conversation where a new or prospective computer owner is assured that they'll be provided with "the essentials" to get them going. I even remember seeing someone who worked in a crime prevention capacity for Scotland Yard offering a newbie an entire suite of pirated stuff! ;)

Though I don't believe piracy is a necessary evil because there's so many free or even shareware choices that you can select instead. For example, If you take the Linux route, everything from the OS right down to the word processor is provided without charge.

Which is why it's dismaying when I repeatedly show people Open Source alternatives for expensive Win/Mac applications and explain that they'll do the same task, only for them to insist that they'd rather go through the hassle of reading through pages of product-key's, take serious risks with key-gen's or enlist me to find a cracked copy.

Edited by UrbanTechGuerrilla, 17 May 2010 - 09:49 PM.


#255
Timdphotos

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I use piracy for things i cant get as I am only 15 yrs old

#256
MrJordanHawken

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i use photoshop as a part of a hobby, i love photomanipulation but not enough to fork out the money Adobe is asking for.

#257
oldtopman

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I pirate to test out. After I make my decision I either thank pirates for saving me money or I go out and buy it.
Translated copy of Japanese Pokemon HeartGold: Made me decide to get it.
Diddy King Racing: Glad i tried it.

How I justify OSx86:
I've been using apple products since system 7 and my Centris.
I have a million copies of OS* and would not trade my apple hardware in for anything.

#258
aedeeley

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To respond to the OP, I have bought a copy of the Photoshop, version 7. As well as a full retail copy of Creative Suite 3. But I do have a "borrowed" copy of CS5 as well. I try to support the products I love, but lets face it - I'm not rich by any means.

As far as OSx86 and my justification - I've always owned Mac products, and do have legitimate copies of OS X. Currently I own an iPhone 4 (verizon), an iPod touch and a Black Macbook w/ a retail copy of OS X Snow Leopard and a legit upgrade of Lion. Yes, it may violate the Apple Terms & Conditions - but I've been taking apart computers and re-assembling them since I was 5. It's just what I do, so why wouldn't I try to take a retail copy of an OS I own and install it into the Retail PC Hardware I legitimately purchased? Yes, it does save me hundreds of dollars, but that's not exactly WHY I do it - I'm just a hardware enthusiast and I find it difficult to upgrade and/or do the things I want with Mac proprietary hardware.

I dunno, but that's my 2 cents.

#259
Alessandro17

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i dont think that piracy is necessarily a bad thing, i think it is just different. meaning it will change the way we use computers. Maybe if everyone continues to pirate, everything will go open source (debatable good or bad)



Not everything open source is of a good quality (but there are some great examples of OSS, like K3b).
Also, too many devs tend to abandon free and open source projects. The usual excuse is: "I have no time".
However you don't hear that from developers of paid software.
So would the overall quality go down if nobody bought software any longer?
I am afraid it would.
In the Windows world a common business model seems to be: I give you a free version of my software in the hope you buy the paid one. Does it work? I don't have any stats, but I suspect it doesn't work very well. Why pay if I can have fully functional, free software? Sometimes I have bought their commercial software in order to show my gratitude, but not very often.
Another model which is becoming very frequent is trying to push unwanted software, like toolbars, registry tools, Google Chrome... I find it morally wrong. Thom Holwerda of OSnews calls that "spyware-like behaviour", and I agree.
In the Mac world there doesn't seem to be much quality free software. Even little apps which should be part of the OS are non free (see for instance AppZapper).
If you are using Lion, you will hardly find any decent chess program (most had been created for PowerPC ad nobody bothered to port them to Macintel).
As users of Serial Box will know, I suspect that piracy must be rife in the Mac world: people won't pay, can't pay for almost everything.

#260
PookyMacMan

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My opinion:

If the law says not to do something, don't do it. I do not agree that it is OK to pirate just to try something out (kinda like walking into an Apple store and taking a new 17" MBP just to check it out), or that you don't have money. That is simply rationalizing stealing something. Just because you are not stealing a physical substance doesn't make it okay, either.

As for being too young, I am 14 at the time of this writing, and I have never done an intentional illegal download (I say intentional because I'm assuming all of what I've downloaded has been legal). As a Christian young man, I cannot condone stealing something people have put their life's work into, be it Windows, OS X, whatever it may be. It is simply not right, now matter what angle you look at it, and the very fact that people have to come up with the excuses above proves that piracy goes against (most) of our consciences.

If you can't pay for something, look for an alternative. For almost everything there is a (usually cheaper) alternative than many expensive soluitons, such as the photoshop/Gimp relationship.





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