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nForce OS X Lion (10.7) APP STORE DOWNLOAD INSTALL GUIDE on a Series 6 or 7 nForce chipset / Intel CPU MOBO


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Poll: Lion on nForce + Intel CPU MOBO in Desktop (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Have you successfully installed a working, bootable Lion system?

  1. Yes, on a Series 7 (750i, 780i, or 790i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the USB flash drive installer method (15 votes [25.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.42%

  2. Yes, on a Series 6 (650i or 680i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the USB flash drive installer method (13 votes [22.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.03%

  3. Yes, on a Series 6 (610i or 630i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the USB flash drive installer method (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Yes, on a Series 7 (750i, 780i, or 790i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the verdant_nForce_OSX_Lion_Installer_DVD_Booter (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Yes, on a Series 6 (650i or 680i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the verdant_nForce_OSX_Lion_Installer_DVD_Booter (3 votes [5.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.08%

  6. Yes, on a Series 6 (610i or 630i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the verdant_nForce_OSX_Lion_Installer_DVD_Booter (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Yes, on a Series 7 (750i, 780i, or 790i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using Snow Leopard from an Installer volume to another HDD/volume (1 votes [1.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.69%

  8. Yes, on a Series 6 (650i or 680i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using Snow Leopard from an Installer volume to another HDD/volume (2 votes [3.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.39%

  9. Yes, on a Series 6 (610i or 630i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using Snow Leopard from an Installer volume to another HDD/volume (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. No, none of the above methods has worked for me (6 votes [10.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.17%

  11. I have sold or plan to sell my nForce chipset MOBO to go over to the "light" side....Intel chipset MOBO..... (1 votes [1.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.69%

  12. I have sold or plan to sell my nForce chipset MOBO to buy a "real" Mac (1 votes [1.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.69%

  13. Are you running 10.7.x successfully , having auto-updated without any problems? (7 votes [11.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.86%

  14. Are all the standard Apple applications running OK? (10 votes [16.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.95%

Would you say that your Lion system is working to your satisfaction (e.g. compared to Snow Leopard)

  1. 100% on (17 votes [27.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.87%

  2. Series 7 - 750i, 780i, or 790i (5 votes [8.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.20%

  3. Series 6 - 650i, 680i (9 votes [14.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.75%

  4. 90% on (7 votes [11.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.48%

  5. Series 7 - 750i, 780i, or 790i (5 votes [8.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.20%

  6. Series 6 - 650i or 680i (5 votes [8.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.20%

  7. 80% on (4 votes [6.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.56%

  8. Series 7 - 750i, 780i, or 790i (2 votes [3.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.28%

  9. Series 6 - 650i or 680i (3 votes [4.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.92%

  10. 70% on (1 votes [1.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.64%

  11. Series 7 - 750i, 780i, or 790i (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  12. Series 6 - 650i or 680i (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  13. 60% on (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  14. Series 7 - 750i, 780i, or 790i (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  15. Series 6 - 650i or 680i (1 votes [1.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.64%

  16. 50% on (1 votes [1.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.64%

  17. Series 7 - 750i, 780i, or 790i (1 votes [1.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.64%

  18. Series 6 - 650i or 680i (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  19. < 50% on (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  20. Acceptably on 610i or 630i (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Is your Lion system working 100% on

  1. SATA HDD (33 votes [13.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.47%

  2. SATA DVDRW including burning disks (6 votes [2.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.45%

  3. PATA (IDE) HDD (8 votes [3.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.27%

  4. PATA (IDE) DVDRW including burning disks (9 votes [3.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.67%

  5. Video (25 votes [10.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.20%

  6. Onboard LAN (Ethernet) (26 votes [10.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.61%

  7. USB devices (mounting/unmounting), plus USB keyboard and USB mouse (28 votes [11.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.43%

  8. Firewire (10 votes [4.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

  9. PS/2 keyboard and mouse (6 votes [2.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.45%

  10. Audio including Front Panel headphones and microphone (14 votes [5.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.71%

  11. Audio except Front Panel headphones (4 votes [1.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.63%

  12. Audio except Front Panel microphone (5 votes [2.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.04%

  13. Sleep including waking from sleep (6 votes [2.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.45%

  14. PCI NIC (4 votes [1.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.63%

  15. eSATA (3 votes [1.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.22%

  16. Bluetooth (10 votes [4.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

  17. WiFi (11 votes [4.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.49%

  18. Time Machine (8 votes [3.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.27%

  19. Overclocking (12 votes [4.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.90%

  20. Auto Software Update e.g. to 10.7.x (17 votes [6.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.94%

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#241
verdant

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First of all: the best Guide i read:) thanks

but I have a big Problem:

i stuck BEFORE the installation, i'm getting "still waiting for root device" when i'm booting from USB Flash Drive to Install Lion...

my SnowLeo run well in 64 Bit so i dont know which kext should be the Problem;
i had the PCI Config Problem, but npci=0x2000 changed nothing, so I changed AppleIOAPCI... and IOF... kexts and PCI Config don't appear while booting, but i'm still getting still waiting for root device...
dont know if the Solution to put Extra/Ext to System/Lib/Ext is the rigth for me because i dont have and running Lion:)
(but I also added use kernal Cache to boot.plist)

i really dont know what to do next...maybe someone can help me, here's a screenshot from my boot sequence


Assuming that you ahve in org. chameleon.Boot.plist

<key>Kernel</key>
<string>mach_kernel</string>
<key>Kernel Flags</key>
<string>-v arch=x86_64</string>
<key>UseKernelCache</key>
<string>No</string>

Try the following:

1. Confirm that in /Extra/Extensions/ you have at least:

AppleNForceATA.imk64bit.kext
EvOreboot.kext
NullCPUPowerManagement.kext

2. In Terminal type:

sudo chown -R root:wheel /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/Extensions
sudo chmod -R 755 /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/Extensions
sudo touch /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/Extensions
sudo chflags nouchg /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi
exit

3. Close all open folders within the Mac OS X Base System folder and in the Terminal type:

sudo chown -R 0:0 /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System

4. Close Terminal and then go to /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches/Startup and delete the files within Startup….

IOKitPersonalities_i386.ioplist.gz
IOKitPersonalities_x86_64.ioplist.gz
kernelcache
KextPropertyValues_OSBundleHelper_i386.plist.gz
KextPropertyValues_OSBundleHelper_x86_64.plist.gz

5. Close the Mac OS X Base System Window and boot from the USB flash drive Mac OS X Base System volume by pressing F8 at boot-up to bring up the PC BIOS "Boot Menu", then selecting the USB Mac OS X Base System Flash Drive and pressing Enter.

#242
JohnnyFikCock

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Assuming that you ahve in org. chameleon.Boot.plist

<key>Kernel</key>
<string>mach_kernel</string>
<key>Kernel Flags</key>
<string>-v arch=x86_64</string>
<key>UseKernelCache</key>
<string>No</string>

Try the following:

1. Confirm that in /Extra/Extensions/ you have at least:

AppleNForceATA.imk64bit.kext
EvOreboot.kext
NullCPUPowerManagement.kext

2. In Terminal type:

sudo chown -R root:wheel /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/Extensions
sudo chmod -R 755 /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/Extensions
sudo touch /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/Extensions
sudo chflags nouchg /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System/System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi
exit

3. Close all open folders within the Mac OS X Base System folder and in the Terminal type:

sudo chown -R 0:0 /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Base\ System

4. Close Terminal and then go to /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches/Startup and delete the files within Startup….

IOKitPersonalities_i386.ioplist.gz
IOKitPersonalities_x86_64.ioplist.gz
kernelcache
KextPropertyValues_OSBundleHelper_i386.plist.gz
KextPropertyValues_OSBundleHelper_x86_64.plist.gz

5. Close the Mac OS X Base System Window and boot from the USB flash drive Mac OS X Base System volume by pressing F8 at boot-up to bring up the PC BIOS "Boot Menu", then selecting the USB Mac OS X Base System Flash Drive and pressing Enter.


okay now we have a little Problem: i'm not home for 5 weeks:) so i cant test it, but what i can say that in my Cache Folder i've never seen one of this Files except kernelcache (on the USB Drive)

i will test this things when I'm back home:
and your are right, my boot.plist looks like this and i have this 3 kexts in my Extra Folder...i hope this will work and i came back with positive news:)
But again: Thank you very much!!

#243
JohnnyFikCock

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okay i've tested and...
nothing change...still waiting for root device...sad...
exatcly the same window/boot screen like in my screenshot

#244
verdant

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okay i've tested and...
nothing change...still waiting for root device...sad...
exatcly the same window/boot screen like in my screenshot


Have you considered going back to the original AppleIOAPCI... and IOF... kexts and trying a DSDT mod for the PCI config problem.....?

#245
JohnnyFikCock

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Have you considered going back to the original AppleIOAPCI... and IOF... kexts and trying a DSDT mod for the PCI config problem.....?


i cleaned the USB Drive and start from zero...
this time i want to do with DSDT...but i cant get away the PCI Config...
but, dont know, my System dont freeze I just get still waiting for root device...

can it by a Problem of USB? because normally i have to Disable USB Legacy in BIOS that my USB works correctly

also i have to say that my Device(PCI0) "function" is MUCH bigger, Name(_BBN) i dont see anywhere...dont know if this is important, DSDT is new to me

#246
verdant

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i cleaned the USB Drive and start from zero...
this time i want to do with DSDT...but i cant get away the PCI Config...
but, dont know, my System dont freeze I just get still waiting for root device...

can it by a Problem of USB? because normally i have to Disable USB Legacy in BIOS that my USB works correctly

also i have to say that my Device(PCI0) "function" is MUCH bigger, Name(_BBN) i dont see anywhere...dont know if this is important, DSDT is new to me


I will PM you....... :(

#247
adv_j

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How I can use AppleHDA sound kext? Now I use voodooHDA? Asus P5N-E Sli ALC883.

#248
verdant

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How I can use AppleHDA sound kext? Now I use voodooHDA? Asus P5N-E Sli ALC883.


See post #5 on using DSDT DTGP and HDEF patches with AppleHDA.kext v10.6.2 and a legacy (Info.plist-only) ALC883 kext in /Extra/Extensions/.......

#249
djdubs

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Verdant strikes again....So I was having issue with my raid array and Verdant showed me a little trick on how to get it working on all four of my cores until applenforceata.kext is updated with raid support use maxmem=3456. I can only use half of my available ram but the system is stable finally and I will be looking forward to the updated kext whenever it may be released. Nick savage narrowed the issue down to memory. I can't wait to see what he will figure out next finally some movement on this issue! Here is some info on the subject:

http://code.google.c...ues/detail?id=2

Does Slashack Manage this? Can we get a hold of him? If you goto the project home link it has someones email slash...@gmail.com

http://www.insanelym...p...t&p=1754512

http://www.xtremesys...shooting-Thread

Thanks again Verdant and Nick Savage you rock!!! :P :hysterical: :D

#250
Madferret

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Ah, the much complained about i680 memory issue. A lot of users ran into issues w/ just running 4 chips, over clocked or otherwise. Some resolved problems w/ bumping voltages, but most of what I read involved doing so in tandem w/ overclocking. A lot of people were blowing their ram too. I seem to recall there being lots of nebulous problems with memory combos, oft discussed on the overclockers boards. I'm running only a pair of 2gb 800mhz chips in this system at present, no overclock on the ram. (1.9v i think :dev:) At previous times I had 1/1-2gb 1,1,2,2-6gb and 2,2,2,2-8gb of ram in the thing; 8 gigs back when I was using 10.6 server and the large FIS port replicated hard drive arrays.

Ah well; I set the cpu/maxmem values down and in the process of beating the {censored} out of the storage at the moment.

*EDIT*

Well; it's definitely an issue with either the cpu/mem values.

cpus=1 maxmem=2048 results in kernel_task consuming a steady 3.5% of one core. This is happening when duping files on drives attached to my add-on card and when duping files on the nforce sata. Looks like it's possibly some more nebulous nforce related issue: apple's stuff not liking chipset or config or ahci implimentation or something along those lines.

I'm going to start bumping settings upward until the problem comes back.

*EDIT2*

Using 2 cores is not triggering the massive CPU usage. It must be related to the memory limit.

maxmem=3456 w/out the cpu flag still shows the expected 3-4% overhead for disk to disk file transfers. I guess I will leave it there and thrash/reliability test my disks now. Digging through the vague {censored} on other forums I find instances of other folks dropping maxmem for stability reasons (but nobody actually mentioning anything about their CPU utilization). Some of these are on AMD nforce systems, some Intel nforce systems and others just on core2 intel chipsets. For my own system, when I have my CPU maxed by my sata + ethernet overhead (redlining in activity monitor) for an extended period of time I seem to eventually crash (w 4gb+ ram).

Bonus side effect : transfer rate for AFP is pretty much holding around 95mb/sec now instead of spiking around, no longer CPU limited due to the previous issue.


Hi, any news on this?

Maybe its not the ram because it runs fine with cpus=1 without touching any mem settings.
And after adding core 2 u said it must be mem, but u havent tested cpus=3 yet.

Hope there will be a solution for this, coz everythings running fine except this. Have been waiting for 2 years for this to be solved.

*EDIT* BTW I also have the problem with 2 cores. With just one core its running totally fine also with full 4*1GB MEM

#251
adv_j

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I do it! AppleHDA without any dsdt! kexts from snow 10.6.2 with three legacy kexts from asus P5k works on my P5n-e sli & ALC883.

Attached Files



#252
verdant

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I do it! AppleHDA without any dsdt! kexts from snow 10.6.2 with three legacy kexts from asus P5k works on my P5n-e sli & ALC883.


Glad you got it sorted.........:wallbash:

Hi, any news on this?

Maybe its not the ram because it runs fine with cpus=1 without touching any mem settings.
And after adding core 2 u said it must be mem, but u havent tested cpus=3 yet.

Hope there will be a solution for this, coz everythings running fine except this. Have been waiting for 2 years for this to be solved.

*EDIT* BTW I also have the problem with 2 cores. With just one core its running totally fine also with full 4*1GB MEM


I wonder if your MOBO has the 1GB RAM module issue like the EVGA 680i........perhaps you need 2*2GB RAM instead.......

#253
Madferret

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Glad you got it sorted......... :)



I wonder if your MOBO has the 1GB RAM module issue like the EVGA 680i........perhaps you need 2*2GB RAM instead.......


Oh, well... in fact I have the EVGA 680i SLI. Is there any issue with especially that mobo?
Didn't know about that. Does it for sure solve the problem if I use any other configuration than 4*1GB? Could u leave me any more information about that please? Thanks in advance! What would happen with i.e. 4*2GB?

Thanks alot, appreciate ur work!

#254
verdant

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Oh, well... in fact I have the EVGA 680i SLI. Is there any issue with especially that mobo?
Didn't know about that. Does it for sure solve the problem if I use any other configuration than 4*1GB? Could u leave me any more information about that please? Thanks in advance! What would happen with i.e. 4*2GB?

Thanks alot, appreciate ur work!


Glad you have found it of use.....:)

As you have an EVGA 680i MOBO then note this very interesting post that I have come across on the Tech Support Guy forum by 5ndr5 :

I had an nvidia chipset motherboard (EVGA 680i) and 4gb ram (ocz). Now after months and months of "random" freezes, rebooting, re-installing, different drivers, re-applying thermal paste, studying crash dumps................it turned out to be a "known" issue with my motherboard + all memory banks filled (1gb x 4), the ONLY thing that resolved it for me was to install x2 2gb modules !!!

Also see here......and 680i MOBOs more generally here.....

#255
Madferret

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Glad you have found it of use..... :o

As you have an EVGA 680i MOBO then note this very interesting post that I have come across on the Tech Support Guy forum by 5ndr5 :


Also see here......and 680i MOBOs more generally here.....


I just remembered that I even tried running with just 2* 1GB in different slot positions and still had the error. And my windows 7 is running fine with 4 cores and 4*1GB in all slots aswell. It only happens in OSX. I get everything running leopard snow lion including updates, sound, internet, graphics (8800GTX) quartzextreme etc. but Ill get these random freezes, where the turning beachball thing comes up and programs stop running and after a while the whole working surface freezes too. Then I have to hard reboot. Sometimes I run ProTools(DAW like logic) and the issue appears, it starts hanging sound may even keep on running for some time. In any way I have to hard reboot. With just 1 core activated in bios everythings running well incl. 4*1GB RAM. But thats not the solution because Im in need of a strong system for programs with i.e. ProTools.

Did u ever have the same problem on your nforce board? I think in an old post I saw that u had a 680i as well.


BTW as info and for people searching keywords:
Q6600
EVGA 680i SLI, P33 bios vers.
EVGA 8800GTX, 2 monitors, full graphics
4*1GB RAM Kingston

AppleNForceATA.imk64bit.kext
EvOreboot.kext
FakeSMC.kext
IntelCPUMonitor.kext
IOATAFamily.kext
nForceLAN.0.64.5.kext
NullCPUPowerManagement.kext
NVClockX.kext

atm running SL 10.6.8 but works just fine with Lion too

#256
verdant

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I just remembered that I even tried running with just 2* 1GB in different slot positions and still had the error. And my windows 7 is running fine with 4 cores and 4*1GB in all slots aswell. It only happens in OSX. I get everything running leopard snow lion including updates, sound, internet, graphics (8800GTX) quartzextreme etc. but Ill get these random freezes, where the turning beachball thing comes up and programs stop running and after a while the whole working surface freezes too. Then I have to hard reboot. Sometimes I run ProTools(DAW like logic) and the issue appears, it starts hanging sound may even keep on running for some time. In any way I have to hard reboot. With just 1 core activated in bios everythings running well incl. 4*1GB RAM. But thats not the solution because Im in need of a strong system for programs with i.e. ProTools.

Did u ever have the same problem on your nforce board? I think in an old post I saw that u had a 680i as well.


BTW as info and for people searching keywords:
Q6600
EVGA 680i SLI, P33 bios vers.
EVGA 8800GTX, 2 monitors, full graphics
4*1GB RAM Kingston

AppleNForceATA.imk64bit.kext
EvOreboot.kext
FakeSMC.kext
IntelCPUMonitor.kext
IOATAFamily.kext
nForceLAN.0.64.5.kext
NullCPUPowerManagement.kext
NVClockX.kext

atm running SL 10.6.8 but works just fine with Lion too


No, I have a 650i MOBO........I have only experienced similar problems with heavy HDD to HDD data transfers, e.g. during cloning thus when cloning I boot with cpus=1 maxmem=2048.......

I am surprised that using the maxmem=3456 boot flag has not worked for you as it has for
Nick Savage, who also has a EVGA 680i MOBO.....

#257
Madferret

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No, I have a 650i MOBO........I have only experienced similar problems with heavy HDD to HDD data transfers, e.g. during cloning thus when cloning I boot with cpus=1 maxmem=2048.......

I am surprised that using the maxmem=3456 boot flag has not worked for you as it has for
Nick Savage, who also has a EVGA 680i MOBO.....


I will give it another try with maxmem set. Hopefully it i will somewhen be fully working. Because I just need at 4GB+

I also have that problem with huge data transfers. It works for some minutes and then it will just stop t transfer with the transfer window open and the surface freezes quite simultaneously. I can still move the transferwindow arround but nothings working.

But you for yourself never found another solution than setting down things at boot?

#258
Madferret

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I will give it another try with maxmem set. Hopefully it i will somewhen be fully working. Because I just need at 4GB+

I also have that problem with huge data transfers. It works for some minutes and then it will just stop t transfer with the transfer window open and the surface freezes quite simultaneously. I can still move the transferwindow arround but nothings working.

But you for yourself never found another solution than setting down things at boot?


NO, doesn't help. also setting it down from 1066 to 800 doesnt help. Was using protools and had loaded a huge drum sample library and it froz.




sounds like this: http://www.insanelym...p...729&hl=680i
and have seen this issue in many other posts, but nobody ever has been able to solve it ;/

#259
RaMDaY

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I’m having some video card related problems. Currently the only way I can boot into Lion 10.7.2 is if I remove my 2nd video card. If I keep both video cards in my system all I get is a grey screen instead of a desktop. If I boot with just one video card then my system is fine. Before I updated to 10.7.2 I was using an EFI string for just my 1st video card and Lion 10.7 was fine because it didn’t even know I had a 2nd video card installed. Now with 10.7.2 the EFI string is no longer working. I could not boot with it. I now have to use GraphicsEnabler=Yes but with it I am getting a grey screen at boot. Does anyone one have any ideas on how to get this working. When I had 10.6.7 installed GraphicsEnabler=Yes worked without any problems. Snow Leopard saw I had two video cards and booted fine. With 10.6.8 and up I had to use the single card EFI string otherwise my system would get stuck with a grey screen in Lion 10.7 and a blue screen in Snow Leopard 10.6.8.

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verdant

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I’m having some video card related problems. Currently the only way I can boot into Lion 10.7.2 is if I remove my 2nd video card. If I keep both video cards in my system all I get is a grey screen instead of a desktop. If I boot with just one video card then my system is fine. Before I updated to 10.7.2 I was using an EFI string for just my 1st video card and Lion 10.7 was fine because it didn’t even know I had a 2nd video card installed. Now with 10.7.2 the EFI string is no longer working. I could not boot with it. I now have to use GraphicsEnabler=Yes but with it I am getting a grey screen at boot. Does anyone one have any ideas on how to get this working. When I had 10.6.7 installed GraphicsEnabler=Yes worked without any problems. Snow Leopard saw I had two video cards and booted fine. With 10.6.8 and up I had to use the single card EFI string otherwise my system would get stuck with a grey screen in Lion 10.7 and a blue screen in Snow Leopard 10.6.8.


Have you tried NVEnabler 64, which is what I use with OS X 10.7.2.........?





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