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#521
gwprod12

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Okay, we'll play your game. I am directly descended from canaanites. Archaeology, and the Bible, both claim that Canaanites lived in Canaan before the tribes of Israel did. Since you require no evidence proving your direct ancestor owned land there, neither do I. Get off my land.

#522
yossicl

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Okay, we'll play your game. I am directly descended from canaanites. Archaeology, and the Bible, both claim that Canaanites lived in Canaan before the tribes of Israel did. Since you require no evidence proving your direct ancestor owned land there, neither do I. Get off my land.

It’s ridiculous, we are talking about real life and real history and you talk about stupid games?
Start here http://www.hum.huji....Archaeology.htm and maybe you’ll learn something on Archaeological Excavations Relating to Jewish History.

Edit: Oh and btw, can you talk and read Canaanites language as I can talk and read perfectly Hebrew as my direct ancestors were talking 3,500 years ago?
Do you have any relation to the Canaanite's culture as I do have Hebrew's culture as my direct ancestors have?
If not get off my back.

Edited by yossicl, 19 December 2006 - 01:51 PM.


#523
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The logic of your argument is that you, YOU have a better claim to the land you live on than some palestinian, because your supposed ancestors, whose providence you cannot prove in any way, occupied the land before the ancestors of the palestinian. So, I say to you, since my ancestors, of which providence I have equal proof of, predate your theoretical ancestors, you must therefore get off my land, and go live somewhere else.

If you want to make the perfectly legitimate argument that Israel belongs to the Israelis because the Israelis have better guns than the Palestinians, that would have some sort of force. But dont try to pretend you have a moral argument. You dont.

I find it hard to believe that the ability to read hebrew is a necessary requirement for inheriting your ancestor's posessions. I also find it hard to believe that reading hebrew thus proves that someone who was alive 2000 years ago is your direct ancestor. For all anyone knows, you have no ancestor who ever lived in the middle east in antiquity. P R O V E you do. Heh. In fact, since Israel is a multi-cultural secular society, there can be no religious or cultural tests associated with legal proceedings. I neednt know anything about my ancient ancestor's culture, nor his language in order to inherit his possessions.

EDIT: The intellectual dishonesty, among the powerful in Israel generally and in the west-bank settlers specifically, is the primary reason why people want to blow you off the face of the earth. Not being an anti-Semite, even I have a small feeling of eradicating this zealotry. I know if I was your victim, I wouldnt be hesitant about strapping C4 to myself and vaporizing you.

Edited by gwprod12, 19 December 2006 - 03:27 PM.


#524
killbot1000

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My main question...is who would want Israel anyway? Its a small, fairly insignificant piece of land (in real world considerations anyway). Why cant either the Palestinians or the Israelis find an island somewhere and live there...seriously...this is pathetic

#525
yossicl

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The logic of your argument is that you, YOU have a better claim to the land you live on than some palestinian, because your supposed ancestors, whose providence you cannot prove in any way, occupied the land before the ancestors of the palestinian. So, I say to you, since my ancestors, of which providence I have equal proof of, predate your theoretical ancestors, you must therefore get off my land, and go live somewhere else.

If you want to make the perfectly legitimate argument that Israel belongs to the Israelis because the Israelis have better guns than the Palestinians, that would have some sort of force. But dont try to pretend you have a moral argument. You dont.

I find it hard to believe that the ability to read hebrew is a necessary requirement for inheriting your ancestor's posessions. I also find it hard to believe that reading hebrew thus proves that someone who was alive 2000 years ago is your direct ancestor. For all anyone knows, you have no ancestor who ever lived in the middle east in antiquity. P R O V E you do. Heh. In fact, since Israel is a multi-cultural secular society, there can be no religious or cultural tests associated with legal proceedings. I neednt know anything about my ancient ancestor's culture, nor his language in order to inherit his possessions.

EDIT: The intellectual dishonesty, among the powerful in Israel generally and in the west-bank settlers specifically, is the primary reason why people want to blow you off the face of the earth. Not being an anti-Semite, even I have a small feeling of eradicating this zealotry. I know if I was your victim, I wouldnt be hesitant about strapping C4 to myself and vaporizing you.

FYI all the Jews around the world even if they have different "home-land-culture” are praying the same prayer with the same holidays from generation to generation as our ancestor where doing 3,500 years ago in the land of Israel.
So maybe my argument doesn’t fit to your opinion and your arguments are empty... but who cares?

#526
oregano

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My main question...is who would want Israel anyway? Its a small, fairly insignificant piece of land (in real world considerations anyway). Why cant either the Palestinians or the Israelis find an island somewhere and live there...seriously...this is pathetic


Well, besides the huge huge huge religious significance it has to Jews, Christians, and Muslims (umm, what do you think the Crusades were?), it is all the Jews really need as a home. And there aren't that many islands left that aren't civilized/habitable.
In ancient times it was our home, and we just want it to be our home now.

#527
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And most people do not object to you wanting it to be your home. The palestinians want it to be their home as well. So, do not blind yourself to the fact that the palestinian people have an equal, if not better, moral claim to your territory.

#528
yossicl

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And most people do not object to you wanting it to be your home. The palestinians want it to be their home as well. So, do not blind yourself to the fact that the palestinian people have an equal, if not better, moral claim to your territory.

And currently they kill one each other… and you talk on better moral… :P
I suggest you to wake up from your dreams…
And GOD work for us in mysterious ways… :)

Edited by yossicl, 20 December 2006 - 10:01 AM.


#529
killbot1000

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You're not proving any points by dealing with the god chit chat, seriously, were all violent, the jews are just as bloodthirsty as the rest of the world, theres not really a difference between Palestinians and Israelis, we're all people, clamoring for what we want, thats all.

#530
yossicl

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You're not proving any points by dealing with the god chit chat, seriously, were all violent, the jews are just as bloodthirsty as the rest of the world, theres not really a difference between Palestinians and Israelis, we're all people, clamoring for what we want, thats all.

I don’t need to prove you anything because I’m not GOD spokesman or GOD messenger.

The Arabs (who currently call themselves Palestinian) was killing Jews before 1948 and violation against Jews in other parts of the world doesn’t stop in our territory so it is obviously not the land domination issue.

You are living in other stratosphere that’s for sure.
Nobody threaten to annihilating you and/or wiping you out of your home and your land. You cannot feel our feeling you cannot even touch it but you have a lot of complains against us.

We are not bloodthirsty we are normal human who despised people like you who try to tell us how to live or where to live and trying to judge us as we are guilty in the Arabs/Palestinian brutality behavior.

#531
oregano

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And most people do not object to you wanting it to be your home. The palestinians want it to be their home as well. So, do not blind yourself to the fact that the palestinian people have an equal, if not better, moral claim to your territory.


True...if you don't believe there are any israel-hating arabs in the middle east or anywhere else...WHICH THERE ARE!
come on, almost every arab in the middle east wants israel to be gone forever
its in the Koran or whatever: "the savior will not come until three ancient cities are controlled by muslims: Mecca, Jerusalem, and [some other city that is already under Muslim control, i forget the name]"

well, that just leaves jerusalem, WHICH IS UNDER JEWISH CONTROL, in case you forgot
so muslims believe that the world wont be at peace until they control jerusalem, and they will do anything to get it

Edited by joseafus, 23 December 2006 - 12:57 AM.


#532
gwprod12

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Islam controlled all three of those cities for quite some time. If a savior didnt appear then, I dont think he's gonna.

#533
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Palestinian deaths rose in 2006

Palestinian militant killed by Israeli forces in wheeled into hospital in the West Bank
About half of those killed by Israeli forces were not involved in hostilities
Israeli security forces killed 660 Palestinians in 2006 - three times more than in 2005, according to an Israeli human rights group.

B'Tselem, which monitors human rights in the occupied territories, said the figure included 141 children.

At least 322 had taken no part in hostile acts, the group said.

In the same period, the number of deadly Palestinian attacks on Israelis has fallen - 23 Israelis were killed in 2006 compared with 50 last year.

The Israeli military renewed ground operations in the Gaza Strip after militants captured an Israeli soldier in a border raid in June.

Since June, Israeli troops have killed about 405 Palestinians in Gaza, including 88 children. More than half of the casualties were civilians, B'Tselem said.

As of November, 9,075 Palestinians were being held in Israeli jails. This number included 345 minors, it said.

Of these, 738 (22 minors) were being detained without trial and without knowing the charges against them, the group said.


BBC News

What more is there to say?

Edited by AcePlayer, 30 December 2006 - 02:00 AM.


#534
yossicl

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Palestinian deaths rose in 2006

Palestinian militant killed by Israeli forces in wheeled into hospital in the West Bank
About half of those killed by Israeli forces were not involved in hostilities
Israeli security forces killed 660 Palestinians in 2006 - three times more than in 2005, according to an Israeli human rights group.

B'Tselem, which monitors human rights in the occupied territories, said the figure included 141 children.

At least 322 had taken no part in hostile acts, the group said.

In the same period, the number of deadly Palestinian attacks on Israelis has fallen - 23 Israelis were killed in 2006 compared with 50 last year.

The Israeli military renewed ground operations in the Gaza Strip after militants captured an Israeli soldier in a border raid in June.

Since June, Israeli troops have killed about 405 Palestinians in Gaza, including 88 children. More than half of the casualties were civilians, B'Tselem said.

As of November, 9,075 Palestinians were being held in Israeli jails. This number included 345 minors, it said.

Of these, 738 (22 minors) were being detained without trial and without knowing the charges against them, the group said.


BBC News

What more is there to say?

The Muslim Blood Price
http://omedia.org/Sh...hreadID=1014017

From here on out let us ask: how many Arabs and Muslims were killed in the course of those years by other states, such as Russia or France, and how many Arabs, Muslims and others were killed by Arabs and Muslims specifically. The following data has been assembled from studies conducted by various research institutes, academic bodies, international organizations (such as amnesty and other human-rights watch entities), the UN and the governments of some of the countries in question.

Often the statistics contradict and conflict with each other. The differences are often in the hundreds of thousands or even in the millions. We may well never know the exact figures. But even the lowest commonly accepted estimates, which form the basis for the below data, paint a mesmerizing and appalling picture. Moreover, the plethora of Arab- and Muslim-related conflicts during this period of time has made it very difficult to cover or even mention them all in a single article, and even the ones that have been left out of this one surmount the entire Israeli-Arab conflict in terms of casualties and brutality.

Algeria: several years after the establishment of the State of Israel, another war of independence broke out. This time it was Algeria who rose up against France, in the years 1954-1962. The number of victims on the Muslim side is under dispute. Official Algerian sources estimate it at over a million. Some western research institutes find this number acceptable.

French sources tried to claim that only a quarter million Muslims were killed, in addition to approximately 100 thousand French collaborators. However, these estimates are widely considered to be biased and understating. Today there is no dispute that the French killed at least nearly 600 thousand Muslims. And it is France that incessantly preaches to Israel, which in its entire history has barely scratched a tenth of this figure, even by the broadest of estimates.

The massacre in Algeria didn't end then. In the 1991 election, the "Islamic Salvation Front" came to power. The election's results were then immediately annulled by the military. Ever since then a civil war has been waged between the military-supported regime and several Islamic factions. According to various estimates, this conflict has claimed approximately 100 thousand victims thus far. Most of them innocent civilians. Most of these killed in the course of horrific massacres of entire villages – toddlers, women, elders and all. Massacres in the name of Islam.

Algeria recap: 500 thousand to 1 million in the war of independence against France; 100 thousand during the civil war of the nineties.

Sudan: The Most Severe Series of Crimes Since WWII


Sudan: a country torn apart by a streak of killing rampages, almost all between the Arab-Muslim populated north, which holds control of the country, and the black populated south. This country has seen two civil wars, as well as a government-sponsored massacre that is being carried out in the region of Darfur during recent years.

The first civil war raged between the years 1955-1972. Moderate estimates speak of 500 thousand victims. In 1983 the second civil war broke out. However, it was not a war at all, but rather a systematic carnage – true genocide. The goals were Islamization, Arabization and mass deportation, often escalating into eradication, also for the sake of seizing the region's vast oil-fields. This "war" has claimed 1.9 million victims.

The distribution of this figure between Muslim and non-Muslim victims is unclear. The Nuba Mountains region, populated by many black Muslims, has also seen its share of atrocities. No blacks get special treatment, even Muslim ones. Ever since extreme Islam came to power, under the spiritual guidance of Dr. Hassan al-Turabi, things only got worse. Apparently this has been the most severe series of crimes against humanity since World War II.

It featured ethnic cleansing, displacement, mass murder, slave trade, imposition of Islamic law, separation of children from their parents and more. Millions have turned refugees. As far as could be traced, no hundreds of publications have been written in defense of the Sudanese Right of Return nor have petitions and appeals been signed by intellectuals, denouncing Sudan's right to exist.

Events of recent years have mostly revolved around the region of Darfur. Again, Muslims (Arabs) murdering Muslims and pagans (blacks), and the numbers are unclear. Moderate estimates speak of 200 thousand victims; higher ones speak of 600 thousand. Nobody knows for sure. And the massacre goes on.

Of all the atrocities committed in Sudan, most are being carried out by the Arab-Muslim government, and most victims, if not all, are blacks of all religions, including Muslims.

Sudan recap: 2.6 million to 3 million.

Afghanistan: a Ceaseless Procession of Mass Murders

Afghanistan: a ceaseless procession of mass murders has taken place, both internal and outward. The Soviet invasion, which commenced on December 24th 1979 and ended on February 2nd 1989, has left a million dead. Other estimates recount 1.5 million civilian casualties, as well as 90 thousand troops.

After the withdrawal of the Soviets, Afghanistan has undergone a series of strife and civil warfare between the Soviet-supporters, the Mujahideen and the Taliban. Each faction in turn has committed mass murder of its opponents. The total number of casualties of these civil wars, until the invasion of the American-spearheaded coalition forces in 2001, is approximately 1 million.

Some complain, not without justification, about the slaying of Afghans during the coalition strikes against the Taliban government and during the coalition pursuit of Al-Qaeda. However, the invasion of Afghanistan caused a relatively low number of deaths – less than 10,000. Were it not carried out, the previous annual average of over 100 thousand deaths in the course of internal genocide would have likely been maintained.

Afghanistan recap: 1 million to 1.5 million as a result of the Soviet invasion; approximately 1 million in the course of internal warfare.

Somalia: Never-Ending Civil War

Somalia: since 1977 this East-African Muslim country has been submerged in a never-ending civil war. The death toll is estimated to be in the vicinity of 550 thousand people. Muslims killing off Muslims (mostly). Peace-keeping intervention efforts by the UN and later by US forces have both failed.

Most victims did not fall on the field of battle, but rather as a result of starvation or assaults intentionally directed at civilian population, such as bombardments of civilian population for its own sake (massive bombardments of rival regions, such as the one in Somaliland, in which 50 thousand were killed).

Somalia recap: 400 thousand to 550 thousand casualties of civil war.

Bangladesh: One of the World's Three Biggest Genocides

Bangladesh: this state aspired for independence from Pakistan. Pakistan retaliated with a military incursion that wreaked havoc. Again, this was no war, it was a massacre. Between 1 million and 2 million people were systematically executed during the year 1971. Some researchers define the events of that year in Bangladesh as one of the world's three biggest genocides (after the Holocaust and the Genocide of Rwanda).

An inquiry committee commissioned by the Bangladeshi government counted 1.247 million civilian victims who found their deaths at the hands of the Pakistani military. There are many reports of specialized Pakistani death-squads of "Muslim soldiers sent to mass-butcher Muslim peasants".

The Pakistani military was subdued only after the intervention of India, which was upset by influx of refugees – millions – from Bangladesh. Even after the Pakistani withdrawal, 150 thousand Bengalis were murdered in the course of retaliatory raids.

Bangladesh recap: 1.4 million to 2 million.

Indonesia: The Massacre Began With a Communist Insurrection

Indonesia: the world's largest Muslim state is in close competition with Bangladesh and Rwanda for the dubious title of "Biggest Massacre after the Holocaust". The massacre began with a communist insurrection in the year 1965. Here too there are conflicting estimates but the current consensus is approximately 400 thousand Indonesians that were killed during the years 1965-1966, though more rigorous estimates are much higher.

The massacre was carried out by the military, whose prominent figure was Haji Mohammad Soeharto, who then took the reins of power for the next 32 years. One of the researches of those years reports that the man in charge of quelling the rebellion – General Sarwo Edhi – himself admitted that: "we didn't kill one million, but two millions", and "we did a good job of it". We'll stick to the lower, more widely accepted estimates.

In 1975, after the end of the Portuguese dominion, East Timor proclaimed its independence. Soon thereafter it was invaded by Indonesia, which then held rule over the region until 1999. During those years a 100 to 200 thousand people were killed in the region, in addition to a total obliteration of its infrastructures.

Indonesia recap: 400 thousand people, plus 100 thousand to 200 thousand in East Timor.

Iraq: Carnage at the Hand of Saddam Hussein

Iraq: Most of the carnage and devastation prevalent in Iraq during the past few decades was at the hand of Saddam Hussein. Here, too, we are dealing with a regime that has caused millions of deaths. Constant death. One of the pinnacles of this killing-spree was during the Iran-Iraq war, in a conflict over Shatt al-Arab, the river formed by the confluence of theEuphratesand theTigris, a conflict that led nowhere other than to extensive destruction and mass demise. Estimates speak of 450 thousand to 650 thousand Iraqi fatalities, and of 450 thousand to 970 thousand Iranian fatalities. Jews, Israelis and Zionists, as far as is known, were nowhere around.

The waves of internal cleansing, some political (opposition), some ethnic (the Kurd minority) and some religious (the sovereign Sunni minority versus the Shiite majority) yielded an enormous amount of victims. Estimates range from a quarter million people – according to Human Rights Watch – to a full million according to local sources. Other international organizations often refer to half a million casualties.

In the years 1991-1992 Shiite upheaval arose in Iraq. There are various conflicting estimates as to the number of casualties resulting from that upheaval. Numbers range from 40 thousand to 200 thousand. To the Iraqis that were killed we should add the Kurds, of who 200 thousand to 300 thousand were exterminated during the genocide of the '80s and '90s.

Half a million additional Iraqis died of disease due to lack of medicine, supposedly brought on by the sanctions imposed on Iraq following the First Gulf War. Today it is clear that this was nothing other than a continuation of Saddam's genocide of his own people. Buying sufficient medicine was well within his reach, he had the resources and funds to purchase food and build hospitals to accommodate every child in Iraq, but Saddam preferred to finance the construction of palaces and to trade franchises for favors with western and Arab captains of industry. These facts are currently being revealed as the corruption surrounding the UN-run "Oil-for-Food Programme" is being investigated.

The Iraqis continue to suffer. The currently ongoing civil war there – though some do not like to use this term to describe the mutual slaughter of Sunnis and Shiites – has taken a toll of tens of thousands of victims. The number of Iraqis killed in this conflict since the coalition forces took over Iraq is estimated at 100 thousand.

Iraq recap: 1.54 million to 2 million victims.

Iran recap: 450 thousand to 970 thousand victims.

Lebanon: Lethal Civil Strife

Lebanon: the Lebanese civil war took place between the years 1975 and 1990. At certain phases Israel became involved, especially following the First War of Lebanon in 1982. However, there is no dispute that a substantial part of the casualties fell during the first two years.

A conservative estimate would be that over 130 thousand Lebanese were killed during the fighting. Most of these in the course of infighting, due to religious conflicts, ethnic conflicts, and the oft-shifting Syrian support of the various factions. The highest estimates speak of no more than 18 thousand casualties – mostly combatants – caused by Israeli activity.

Lebanon recap: 130 thousand victims.

Yemen: Hundred of Thousands Casualties of Infighting


Yemen: the civil war raging in Yemen between the years 1962 to 1970, with Egyptian and Saudi involvement, claimed 100 thousand to 150 thousand Yemen lives, and an additional 1000 Egyptian and 1000 Saudi lives.

Amongst other horrors, Egypt committed several atrocities, amongst which was the use of gas against the Yemenites. Riots causing several thousands of additional deaths followed in the years 1984 to 1986.

Yemen recap: 100 thousand to 150 thousand killed.

Chechnya: Russia's Refusal to Emancipation Led to War

Chechnya: Russia refused the claims of the Chechen Republic for emancipation, an act which led to the First Chechen War from 1994 until 1996. The war took a toll of 50 thousand to 200 thousand Chechen victims.

Russia spared no means, but failed miserably. This did not serve the Chechens however, for their eventually emancipated republic lay in ruins.

The Second Chechen War began in 1999 and officially ended in 2001, though it hasn't really ended at all, and the death toll is estimated at 30 thousand to 100 thousand.

Chechnya recap: 80 thousand to 300 thousand casualties.

Now Aceplayer do you have more something to say?

#535
hm_ok

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hi, i think most people are not really involved in that situation but try to judge it this or that way for of one or the other reason. most people don't even know somebody facing the daily hardship in the occupied territories or the constant fear of suicide bombers in tel aviv. yet it is a polarizing issue. one tends to think about it, but fails to find a solution for it, or stands on one side, but the arguments are either plain emotional (racist) or inherited. that is because the process of a state being installed out of the blue (not out of nothing) has never been witnessed before. also, the fashion of the suicide bombings often suggest an evil background, whereas if you think it through, no one will blow himself up until it is the very last thing you can do. so these people seem to be quite at the end of their possibilities. imagine they would not do it. accept the steady shooting all day in some parts of gaza, the cutting of water and restriction of movement? that's what they're already doing!

the mere question of why the state was installed can be sometimes greeted with irrational arouse. the motiv is of course unquestionable, but it shrinks every time palestinian human rights are violated.

might also wanna check those out....

http://www.chomsky.i...audionvideo.htm

quite interesting stuff

#536
gwprod12

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I would like to point out that when you say "people dont blow themselves up until/unless it's the last thing to do", that is incorrect. A better way of saying it might be "people dont blow themselves up until/unless they THINK it's the most effective means". I dont want people falling into the false conciousness trap of the "no choice" paradigm. There's always a choice, it just might not be a good one, or you might not know about it. It is however fair to say that people dont become suicide bombers on a whim. People balance risk vs reward. For instance. If I were diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, I might think to myself "Well, I'm going do die in an unpleasant way, maybe I should do something with my death, instead of just wasting away". When the reward vs the risk is calculated, a choice becomes reasoned and is not insane. The insanity lies in what Nietzche called the will to power. When someone is convinced that their own selfishness lies in an act, nothing will stop them from doing it, no matter how self-destructive. Hence the throwing oneself in front of a bus to save a child mentality can be equated to blowing oneself up to advance the cause of your people. Morality, Religion and Nationalism all turn the natural animalistic desire to advance oneself and have power over others into the irrational desire to be powerful by manifesting the goals of others into the selfish. Thus causing Martyrs and Saints. Two sides of the same coin.

</rant>

#537
tomazzzi

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for me israel have nothing to do in palestine

the land used to be palestine & not israel, many people forget it beginning with israelians.

whereever they are israel always found a way to do the war with someone

i m just fed up with israelians, they sucks

just let the plalestinians live in peace in their land !!!!

i just understand them when i ear they don t want to reconize the israel state, i ll do the same ....

#538
hm_ok

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I would like to point out that when you say "people dont blow themselves up until/unless it's the last thing to do", that is incorrect. A better way of saying it might be "people dont blow themselves up until/unless they THINK it's the most effective means". I dont want people falling into the false conciousness trap of the "no choice" paradigm. There's always a choice, it just might not be a good one, or you might not know about it. It is however fair to say that people dont become suicide bombers on a whim. People balance risk vs reward. For instance. If I were diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, I might think to myself "Well, I'm going do die in an unpleasant way, maybe I should do something with my death, instead of just wasting away". When the reward vs the risk is calculated, a choice becomes reasoned and is not insane. The insanity lies in what Nietzche called the will to power. When someone is convinced that their own selfishness lies in an act, nothing will stop them from doing it, no matter how self-destructive. Hence the throwing oneself in front of a bus to save a child mentality can be equated to blowing oneself up to advance the cause of your people. Morality, Religion and Nationalism all turn the natural animalistic desire to advance oneself and have power over others into the irrational desire to be powerful by manifesting the goals of others into the selfish. Thus causing Martyrs and Saints. Two sides of the same coin.

</rant>


if you mean by "bad choice" accepting a map of the west bank scattered with many jewish settlements, being ripped through by israeli street, being stripped of important water resources and so on, i do think that not accepting it is the only good choice in that case. have you seen the map?

so it is better to direct a bomb into a civilian area, aiming at terrorists but reaching civilians, too? the argument against suicide bombers is that they come totally unforeseen, and that is regarded as dirty, as unfair. the only difference on the israeli side is that they are painted in camouflage, shoot much bigger weapons and call themselves "defense force".

imagine again: the palestinians have no army. yet they are subjected to hardship that comes not from the heavens, but from israeli occupation, gaza being the most densly populated place on earth. take the suicide bombers away and they are left with stones. i am not defending any type of violence, and blowing yourself up with many others seems to me a disgusting thing. but the rational behind it must not be overlooked. it is despair, and not patriotism. the hate has do be deep in order to carry out such things. it doesn't get deep without quite a bit of stuff happening. it is a bad rational, but it is one.

i don't want to say anything and i don't know a hell about the whole thing, but i can imagine being a palestinian is not an easy job. and considering the relation of power all in all with the americans and so on, it seems not a very balanced thing. the power is on one side, but if the goal were so obviously right, wouldn't they have succeeded all along? no, there is a big obstacle to that, and that seems to be the palestinian people.

one possible solution to hat is removing them all from there. possible, but not nice.

another is to remove the beliefs of those people clinging on to the holy places which are the biggest of all obstacles. impossible on either side, both very religious.

third, they could live in peace together. why not? because of ethnical differences? there are suppositions of being careful to not let the demographic numbers get uneven concerning the jewish part of the people of israel. we can't let arabs outnumber us here! and i think they shouldn't. but what kind of neighborhood is that? where you are constantly afraid of your neighbors, carry around big guns at your garden fence, securing it to all sides, shooting at them all the time?

#539
killbot1000

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All I have to say is that both Palestein and Israel are {censored}ed up...

#540
one_7

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israel is a result of europe's guilty feeling towards jews especially germany..israel shouldn't exist..a true jew will agree with this statement..all jews who stay in israel are zionist..

but trust me..there will be one day in which all jews will suffer..and Palestin will regain the land back...the days are coming...

@yossicl=zionist

Edited by hazwan, 21 January 2007 - 11:34 PM.






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